NPS in Utah will start citing AWD vehicles on 4WD roads…better know difference

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Tundracamper

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grubworm

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then there needs to be a distinction between "4WD" and limited slip. i've had numerous "4WD" vehicles that didnt have lockers and got stuck faster than a vehicle with an AWD platform. they need "Lockers Only" trail signs...

good post, though...i would not have thought that was a thing. we hit utah a good bit and that is good to know to avoid a ticket...
 
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smritte

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My Cruiser is AWD.
I think the distinction should be "High Clearance Vehicles" only.
Its entirely possible this came about with low clearance vehicles needing to be rescued.
 
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grubworm said:
then there needs to be a distinction between "4WD" and limited slip. i've had numerous "4WD" vehicles that didnt have lockers and got stuck faster than a vehicle with an AWD platform. they need "Lockers Only" trail signs...

good post, though...i would not have thought that was a thing. we hit utah a good bit and that is good to know to avoid a ticket...
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The article explicitly states “Some AWD systems have brake-based limited-slip differentials, but these are still no substitute for locking differentials in traditional 4WD systems.” I was Initially thinking that was just the position of the author. Given the very steep fines, though, that is also clearly the position of the NPS!
 
bgenlvtex

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The chances of some low IQ government bureaucrat indiscriminately applying this rule while simultaneously not understanding the difference is not less than 115%

Of all the vehicles on the road in 2024 described as "4 wheel drive" only a tiny fraction of them are actually "4 wheel drive".

More government is never, ever the answer and those who enthusiastically embrace it are among the dumbest organisms on the planet.
 
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North American Sojourner

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bgenlvtex

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grubworm said:
somebody needs to remind the NPS that it doesnt matter what you drive....:grinning:
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That's right, can we get some sort of site staff or someone to contact those people and get them plumbed up?
 
Outdoordog

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Hahahahahah! Sucks for them, but heard a lot of AWD vehicles were getting stuck on trails, causing issues.
 
LostWoods

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A high clearance 4WD vehicle is defined as a SUV or truck type vehicle, with at least 15 inch tire rims or more, with a low gear transfer case, designed for heavier type use than a standard passenger vehicle, with at least 8 inches of clearance or more from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential, to the ground, also including a means to mechanically power both, front and real wheels at the same time.
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Low gear transfer case is the kicker. Whole lot of Subie fans up in arms about this one and I get it, but the best buil Subaru isn't going to compete with even a stock SUV in a lot of terrain without significantly more trail wear.
 
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Jim SoG

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I can see all side of this, but I also think it it another way to "close" trails off, so now it limits amount on the trails. I also think it should ALL be about damage, if you get stuck in jeep or awd or whatever and no damage done, all good, but if your tearing up a trail or area trying to free yourself, ticket time. IMO.

Good to know, bet they get a ton of calls about this.

Jim
 
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Soapy

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The soft roaders will have to pick up their game. The regulations state the need for a low range, minimum clearance etc. Just follow the rules so we can keep the trails open.
 
rtexpeditions

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We've got the same thing in some places in Australia except the decider seems to be whether you have a low range transfer case. Nobody seems to recognize that Cruisers and Range Rovers are AWD (distribute the drive over all wheels), whilst my VW is part-time 4WD as it is FWD or FWD+RWD (like an old Subaru BRAT). Wouldn't be a problem at that place as it has a differential lock, a real one that locks left-right on the rear axle.
 
MidOH

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The difference is.....Utah cops can still ticket you, even if your girl suv has 4wd.

If offroaders and overlanders aren't actively maintaining trails (leave no trace isn't good enough), the trail is doomed.

Only actively maintained trails have any political respect.
 
smritte

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MidOH said:
Only actively maintained trails have any political respect.
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+1 on this
I was part of the AAT program out here for a couple of decades. It was bad enough that the maintained trails always risked being closed. The unmaintained ones had no chance. What they used to try and close the maintained ones was either "disturbing" the wildlife or safety. If someone deems a trail "unsafe" or abused, the opposition has tons of ammo for a closure. If the rangers have to ticket people for not having the correct vehicle on the trail, someone cam claim its unsafe.
I've been to more of these meetings then I can count. I've sat across from people screaming to get the trail closed for sometimes ridicules reasons. If the person in charge gives in, the route is closed. 25 odd years ago we lost some routes out there due to this.

On another note, it doesn't help that a towing company is rescuing people out there constantly.
 
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Having owned 4WD vehicles for over 40 years, I would rate this as completely false:

"The most consequential distinction between AWD systems and more capable 4WD systems is that most vehicles equipped with 4WD have one or more locking differentials that massively aid in off-road traction"

4WD Vehicles I have actually owned:

3 Chevy K5 Blazers, non with locking differential
1 Ford SUV, no locking differential
1 Jeep CJ7, no locking differential
1 Chevy Truck, no locking differential
3 Chevy SUVs, non with locking differential
1 Sequoia, no locking differential

AWD Vehicles I have actually owned:

1 TLC, no locking differential
1 Hummer SUT with a locking differential.
 
LostWoods

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Renegade said:
Having owned 4WD vehicles for over 40 years, I would rate this as completely false:

"The most consequential distinction between AWD systems and more capable 4WD systems is that most vehicles equipped with 4WD have one or more locking differentials that massively aid in off-road traction"

4WD Vehicles I have actually owned:

3 Chevy K5 Blazers, non with locking differential
1 Ford SUV, no locking differential
1 Jeep CJ7, no locking differential
1 Chevy Truck, no locking differential
3 Chevy SUVs, non with locking differential
1 Sequoia, no locking differential

AWD Vehicles I have actually owned:

1 TLC, no locking differential
1 Hummer SUT with a locking differential.
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That sounds like they're confusing an AWD center diff and a transfer case to me. Or they're thinking LC which is a locking center diff.
 
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LostWoods said:
That sounds like they're confusing an AWD center diff and a transfer case to me. Or they're thinking LC which is a locking center diff.
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I think they are just innumerate and do not understand how many 4WDs Chevy, Ford, Dodge Jeep, Toyota made over the decades that did not have lockers. It is in the tens of millions.
 
LostWoods

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Renegade said:
I think they are just innumerate and do not understand how many 4WDs Chevy, Ford, Dodge Jeep, Toyota made over the decades that did not have lockers. It is in the tens of millions.
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Which is why I think they're thinking the transfer case is a differential. Lockers just aren't all that common outside those who wheel hard enough to need them aside from Wranglers and Toyota.
 
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