Newbie comms questions (HAM/GMRS/APRS)

[Ubiety]

Of course APRS SMS and email messages are going to have to be super short. Here is more info on APRS SMS and APRS email.

 

[walkabout_ca]

Although it might also help to know what vehicle you drive I order to help select the best antenna for your application.

We have a 5th gen 4Runner.

 

[walkabout_ca]

I run a Comet CA-2X4SR broadband antenna with optional CA-SPR spring kit mounted to the front cowl of my Jeep. I like this antenna and the spring kit means that the antenna can bend when I run it through low tree branches.

Thanks. I noticed there is the CA-2X4SR and the CA-2X4SRNMO; any benefits/downsides to getting the NMO version? On the Ham Radio Outlet website the NMO version is five bucks cheaper.

 

[Sparksalot]

Thanks. I noticed there is the CA-2X4SR and the CA-2X4SRNMO; any benefits/downsides to getting the NMO version? On the Ham Radio Outlet website the NMO version is five bucks cheaper.

NMO is always better for an antenna. That is the most common mount type.

 

[Ubiety]

Thanks. I noticed there is the CA-2X4SR and the CA-2X4SRNMO; any benefits/downsides to getting the NMO version? On the Ham Radio Outlet website the NMO version is five bucks cheaper.

Not that I am aware of - maybe someone else has an opinion. If I remember correctly I went with the non-NMO version because it fit my mount and the NMO version would not (too wide for the hole). I think I would have preferred the NMO version because I have used those in the past. Might be a good idea to figure out how you are going to mount it and then order the appropriate version. Also, how will you run the antenna cable into your 4Runner? Will you have enough room to get the large connector through? I ordered a cable with a solder on connector so I could run the skinny cable through my firewall and then solder the connector on once that was accomplished.

 

[walkabout_ca]

Awesome info. A big thanks to everybody who chimed in, that was super helpful!

I just ordered everything. I'm going with the NMO antenna and a Rugged 4Runner hood / A-pillar mount. I'll solder/crimp the connector after I run the coax cable through the fire wall. I'll have to figure out where to put the display etc. We have an ICS dash mount, which is getting crowded. But I'm sure we can find a spot.

 

[M Rose]

Not that I am aware of - maybe someone else has an opinion. If I remember correctly I went with the non-NMO version because it fit my mount and the NMO version would not (too wide for the hole). I think I would have preferred the NMO version because I have used those in the past. Might be a good idea to figure out how you are going to mount it and then order the appropriate version. Also, how will you run the antenna cable into your 4Runner? Will you have enough room to get the large connector through? I ordered a cable with a solder on connector so I could run the skinny cable through my firewall and then solder the connector on once that was accomplished.

always go NMO if you can, it makes swapping antennas easier or easier to store when not in use. HRO is a great resource for online radio shopping, don’t forget DX Engineering and Gigaparts… shop all three for their sales…

 

[OTH Overland]

Make sure to check the mounting hole size on the Rugged radio a pillar mount, both of the mounts I received from them have a 3/8" dia hole, standard NMO connectors are a 3/4" hole. Rugged's coax fits the 3/8" and has adapters for non standard 5/8 and the 3/4 holes, however I have not had good experieance with their cables, first one was shorted internally, and second had the cable to mount connection fail after a week. It also seemed that the amount of 'center post' sticking up after installing the NMO ring was too much and I could not tighten a standard NMO antenna onto the mount before it bottomed out without some kind of spacer. I ended up using a Larson 3/8" NMO cable # NMOKHFCXTHK. a lot of the NMO cables are intended to use thru a vehicle roof and are therefore not weatherproof and will corode, The larson appeared well sealed. You may have better luck with the comet antenna mounting, just FYI.

 

[walkabout_ca]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[shansonpac]

• Is a single handheld of much use when you travel solo? It seems like for things such as calling for help (or helping others) in non-life threatening situations a mobile unit with some power and a good antenna would be much more useful, correct?

I carry a pair of GRMS radios and solo a lot. If I do have access to a spotter, it makes it easier.

• Does a fancy mobile unit with APRS etc make sense when you already use sat comm location tracking and messaging?

No. I can't imagine an APRS making sense when you have an inReach.

 

[M Rose]

• Is a single handheld of much use when you travel solo? It seems like for things such as calling for help (or helping others) in non-life threatening situations a mobile unit with some power and a good antenna would be much more useful, correct?

I carry a pair of GRMS radios and solo a lot. If I do have access to a spotter, it makes it easier.

• Does a fancy mobile unit with APRS etc make sense when you already use sat comm location tracking and messaging?

No. I can't imagine an APRS making sense when you have an inReach.

How many texts can you send before your InReach starts charging you extra money?

 

[Ubiety]

I can't imagine an APRS making sense when you have an inReach.

While there is some overlap in capability the two "services" are not functionally the same nor do they offer the same features. There is a capital outlay for both to get started (hardware purchase) but there are no connection/usage fees for APRS and since each use a different network your chances of connectivity increase by having both. I appreciate the redundancy of having both SatCom and APRS and since APRS is free it becomes a set-it-and-forget-it thing for me (unless exploring its other capabilities). I also appreciate the hobby aspect of APRS, and I get that many would not, but an InReach is never going to be a hobby. Have you ever tracked weather balloons with an InReach? You can with APRS! There are daily launches out of Los Angeles that typically head NE and can be tracked from many places in CA. Yeah, geeky but I got a kick out of it and made a connection with a meteorologist who was doing that work. Ever bounced a packet off of the ISS with an InReach? That is a possibility with APRS! Since I have a radio that allows me to access the TNC I can send and receive full-featured emails as long as there is a WinLink node that I can connect to - or I could opt for sending quick SMS or email or APRS messages via APRS. SatCom can go down with a single point of failure (it has happened to me); since APRS is distributed chances are that will not be the case. Since APRS is open your favorite navigation app has the option of connecting to your radio and placing APRS targets onto the map that you are already using - I know of two such overlanding nav apps that are exploring this. Imagine being able to see your convoy on the map and having the ability to send messages outside of cell service and without fees!

So yes, they serve some of the same functions but do it very differently and are nowhere near the same.

 

[rslagle]

I never have - but I cannot think of many reasons to do so.

If you have several groups of hikers going off in different directions, having a repeater in the middle of the area could possibly allow communications when otherwise it would not be possible. Think a vehicle parked high on a ridge and hikers on foot descending steep terrain on both sides. Even a vehicle parked on flat ground and one group of hikers heading west with a HT and another headed east with another HT. At some point, they would not be able to talk directly, but would still be able to communicate through a repeater situated in the middle. Not a feature you would use frequently during a "normal" overlanding trip, but think Search and Rescue or anytime a group is more dispersed.

I do disagree with the above comment to not start out with a handheld. They are extremely useful, even after you get a more powerful vehicle based mobile unit. They are indispensable anytime you are out of the vehicle, such as spotting someone through a difficult spot, when someone is off hiking or the group is scattered out, rockhounding or taking photos or that type of thing. They are also very handy to loan to guests on their first trip who haven't outfitted their vehicles yet and to use as a backup when a tree snatches your external antenna. (HINT: add external antenna to your spares kit) It is preferable for the lead vehicle and the tail gunner to have more powerful units with external antennas, but HTs will usually suffice for the middle vehicles.

 

[Ubiety]

So yes, they serve some of the same functions but do it very differently and are nowhere near the same. Gotta run, heading up to the cabin for the day to so some work - since APRS is free it always runs when I am driving; feel free to follow along!

Hmmm. Coverage is poor up North today, a digi/igate must be down. Exactly why I like redundancy!

 

[Ubiety]

If you have several groups of hikers going off in different directions, having a repeater in the middle of the area could possibly allow communications when otherwise it would not be possible. Think a vehicle parked high on a ridge and hikers on foot descending steep terrain on both sides. Even a vehicle parked on flat ground and one group of hikers heading west with a HT and another headed east with another HT. At some point, they would not be able to talk directly, but would still be able to communicate through a repeater situated in the middle. Not a feature you would use frequently during a "normal" overlanding trip, but think Search and Rescue or anytime a group is more dispersed.

Sure, but not something I normally do. I was pondering what a more common case might be.

I do disagree with the above comment to not start out with a handheld. They are extremely useful, even after you get a more powerful vehicle based mobile unit. They are indispensable anytime you are out of the vehicle, such as spotting someone through a difficult spot, when someone is off hiking or the group is scattered out, rockhounding or taking photos or that type of thing. They are also very handy to loan to guests on their first trip who haven't outfitted their vehicles yet and to use as a backup when a tree snatches your external antenna. (HINT: add external antenna to your spares kit) It is preferable for the lead vehicle and the tail gunner to have more powerful units with external antennas, but HTs will usually suffice for the middle vehicles.

I recommended getting both an HT and a mobile and stated many of the same things in subsequent posts ;) If I could only get one it would be a mobile though. IMO HTs are miserable/dangerous to use while driving where a fixed mobile removes a lot of the distraction and workload. Just my $0.0009367 - adjusted for inflation

 

[shansonpac]

Have you ever tracked weather balloons with an InReach? You can with APRS! There are daily launches out of Los Angeles that typically head NE and can be tracked from many places in CA. Yeah, geeky but I got a kick out of it and made a connection with a meteorologist who was doing that work. Ever bounced a packet off of the ISS with an InReach? That is a possibility with APRS!

@Ubiety, These capabilities have never crossed my mind when overlanding. You truly are a geek. I like that..... :-)

 

[walkabout_ca]

How many texts can you send before your InReach starts charging you extra money?

It depends on the plan. We have an on-demand plan, which is $35/year, and then you pay for when you enable service for 30 days. The cheapest ($15/month) has 10 messages included and no free tracking, middle tier ($35) 40 messages and free 10 minute interval tracking (we use this plan, on demand), and upper tier ($65) unlimited messages and 2 minute tracking. If you do the annual always-on plan the middle tier is $25/month.

Having APRS can save you from going to the higher tiers, that certainly sounds interesting. And premium weather info (5 day forecast IIRC) is $1/message for all plans. Is there reasonable coverage for getting weather forecasts over APRS?

 

[shansonpac]

How many texts can you send before your InReach starts charging you extra money?

Depends on the plan. I also reprogram my free messages depending on the trip so my message cost is minimal. Looking at the cost of some APRS systems, it would take a lot of free messages to justify the expenditure. I get the utility of APRS, I just don't need to send emails, track weather balloons or bounce messages off of the ISS. I need to be able to send an SOS, an occasional text, keep family informed as to my location, get accurate local weather and have GPS off of the grid. InReach meets those critical mission needs, and it has worked flawlessly over the many years that I have had my legacy inReach. To each their own.

 

[Ubiety]

@Ubiety, These capabilities have never crossed my mind when overlanding. You truly are a geek. I like that..... :-)

Yes sir! I was hoping to stir your imagination!
WX over APRS? Not sure, but it is an open system so there is nothing that would stop someone from creating this service. Email and SMS are examples of this - someone got interested and added the service. Hmmmm now you have me interested ;)

 

[OTH Overland]

While I like to geek out on advanced features of HAM and lots of other tech things, in reality I just have trouble finding enough time to actually reach 'Nerdvana' levels most of the time. I often buy gear with huge capabilities, but 99 percent of the time I only use a few of the features. Yes it would be nice to be able to have the oportunity to send a text thru HAM from some remote location, or bounce something off the space station, but just do not have the time on my hands to #1 set it all up, and #2 practice with it enough to be proficient. Also I do tend to keep my gear for a long time and often run old school radios, my go to HT is a 1989 Yeasu FT470 dual band, no digital or fancy features such as alpha numeric display or thousands of memories, but battery lasts forever, does cross band repeat very simply, wide band receive, and has very clear transmit / receive, I think better than most newer HT's I have tried. I have an ancient old Kenwood 2m radio that you set the frequency, tone and offset with analog switches and dials, not currently in use, but still works well and might make a good dedicated APRS radio some day if I can find time, space and antenna room on the rig for.

For APRS I really only want/use the ability to track other vehicles/persons that are in my group, such as location of first and last vehicle in a convoy, or a group doing SAR work. For emergency that happens to my or a group I am with, Voice transmissions, Sat Device, and PLB will remain my go to for now, and if all else fails, signal mirror or smoke signals...lol