Midwest Voyager - 04 WJ Grand Cherokee

[MidwestVoyager]

I’m in the process of building out my rig for travel and off-road mobility. I installed a 3.5” lift from rockyroad outfitters in Denver. It uses OME HD springs and a spacer combo. It came out higher than 3.5” but hoping after a bit of settling and heavy bumpers/tire carrier/winch that it will sit a bit lower.

Dealing with death wobble when I took it in for alignment. Hopefully it was the alignment/wheel balance or a simple fix like drag link rod-ends. Parts that I installed with lift:

Front LCA’s
Coil springs front and rear
New shocks front and rear
New spring isolators front and rear
Rear sway bar link drop mount kit
Front sway bar disconnects
Adj trackbar
Front bump stops and extension brackets
245/75 R17 takeoffs from a JK wrangler

 

[MidwestVoyager]

I’m in the process of building out my rig for travel and off-road mobility. I installed a 3.5” lift from rockyroad outfitters in Denver. It uses OME HD springs and a spacer combo. It came out higher than 3.5” but hoping after a bit of settling and heavy bumpers/tire carrier/winch that it will sit a bit lower.

Dealing with death wobble when I took it in for alignment. Hopefully it was the alignment/wheel balance or a simple fix like drag link rod-ends. Parts that I installed with lift:

Front LCA’s
Coil springs front and rear
New shocks front and rear
New spring isolators front and rear
Rear sway bar link drop mount kit
Front sway bar disconnects
Adj trackbar
Front bump stops and extension brackets
245/75 R17 takeoffs from a JK wrangler

 

[OTH Overland]

We have a 2000 WJ and installed an Iron Rock long arm 4" lift about 5 years ago. Front driveline razeppa joint at the transfer case angle was too steep and the drive shaft was rubbing on the outer race of the razeppa making all kinds of noise. Some years of WJ have U joints both ends so do not have that issue, thought about sourcing one from a junkyard, but ended up with the Tom Woods shaft, has been great to date with no issues. I installed an adjustable Iron Rock tubular rear A arm with a spacer block that fit on top of the rear diff, that way the pinion angle is within spec and I get more flex than I need. We got a serious case of death wobble. All the ball joints and tie rod ends were tight, but we did end up replacing all the ends and that cleared up most of the DW, only occasionally did it occur usually after a bid dip at highway speed or pothole. Did all the alignment my self and really had to play with caster vs pinion angle. going by specs with pinion angle just about right ended up with caster right at the far end of where it should be. rotating the front axle to just before the driveline started to get any noticeable vibration and then backing off 1/2 degree seemed to the the sweet spot as we have not had any sign of DW for years now. steers a whole lot better also. If I ever need another project, I would cut of the axel C's and reweld them in a few degrees further so I could have my cake and eat it to with on spec caster and driveline angle.

 

[MidwestVoyager]

@OTH Overland I left that rear upper spacer out of my build list, I did add that and I also put in a new (factory) upper control arm. Sounds like I'll be ordering a driveshaft because I believe I've got the same issue on the razeppa. Did you find you needed to lengthen any brake lines or breathers?

 

[tjZ06]

Yes, more WJ content!!! FWIW if it's sitting higher than 3.5" I'd really consider a front long-arm, it helps a ton with ride and articulation when you get to 4"+ (the front arm angles get pretty severe with stock length arms). FWIW before I went wilder w/ my WJ I had IRO's 4" lift with the Rock Link front LA setup, and yes it absolutely needed longer brake lines. It rode/flexed great and was prob the ideal "Overland" setup for a WJ... so of course I went and changed it all, lol.

-TJ

 

[MidwestVoyager]

@tjZ06 nice! Yeah, I really was surprised at how much higher it was sitting, but the springs were basically on the perches, the factory isolators were shot so I gained a bit right then and there by replacing those. I'll get some longer brake lines in the works and a new drive shaft after this DW gets sorted out and after I add the weight of those bumpers and winch. This is my third jeep and first experience with death wobble...it is unsettling.

 

[tjZ06]

@tjZ06 nice! Yeah, I really was surprised at how much higher it was sitting, but the springs were basically on the perches, the factory isolators were shot so I gained a bit right then and there by replacing those. I'll get some longer brake lines in the works and a new drive shaft after this DW gets sorted out and after I add the weight of those bumpers and winch. This is my third jeep and first experience with death wobble...it is unsettling.

Yeah, I've been lucky to avoid DW but have lots of buddies that have had it and it's definitely scary stuff. At the end of the day it usually ends up just being a matter of replacing every "soft part" involved in the front suspension and steering. Though @orange01z28 basically did that and still had some DW until he got his tire rebalanced, and that took the last of it away IIRC so maybe it'll help you too.

-TJ

 

[MidwestVoyager]

Yeah, I've been lucky to avoid DW but have lots of buddies that have had it and it's definitely scary stuff. At the end of the day it usually ends up just being a matter of replacing every "soft part" involved in the front suspension and steering. Though @orange01z28 basically did that and still had some DW until he got his tire rebalanced, and that took the last of it away IIRC so maybe it'll help you too.

-TJ

Hoping so, I got these wheels and tires off a JK that flipped on its side so I know nothing about them, they may not have been balanced to begin with and I know the alignment is out of spec after installing the lift. I'm debating on pulling the spacers, but need to wait until I see how it sits after the added weight of bumpers and winch.

 

[OTH Overland]

at the time I did mine there were no options for longer lines that I could find, and IRO had provided some spacers that supposably moved the line enough that they were good. problem was it changed the routing a bit and the long arm kit I had used what they called an Iron Y on the left side that converted the Jeep to three link and provided the adjustment for camber. I had a brake line failure on a trip in Montana and attributed it to old brake lines so replaced it. Then it happened again here locally and upon lots of inspection I found that even at full stuff on the drivers side by using a jack I had clearance between the control arm and the frame, but when stuffing it hard under load the bump stop compressed and pinched the line enough to put a hole in it. have since change to IRO braided lines and modified the brake line bracket on the frame to move the line forward 3 inches to provide more length and move away from the pinch point. Now IRO has gone away from the three link and back to a full 4 link I believe. WE have a combination winch mount and tow bar setup on the front end for the past 3 years and still rides close to where it was, I do have a set of 1" coil spacers sitting on the shelf so those may go in at some point to get a bit more clearance at the front tires. The only other real issue I had with the suspension is the installation of longer coil retainers, essentially metal cylinders that have a long bolt up through the spring perch, they had to be tapped for the bolt as its only pretty much sheet metal you can not torque them much and both of mine eventually stripped out as there is no access to the back side. I probably could have gotten away with rivnuts but I made it more difficult and removed enough stuff in the engine bay to allow me to drill through the upper layer with a hole saw and place a thick washer and a real nut on the backside, solid as a rock now. I sometimes wish for a few more inches of lift for some bigger tires, but did not want to deal with the issues that come with it, and still do not want to cut my fenders, so 31" tires it is. I am still very surprised were it will take me, often far beyond my Michelle's comfort level lol. with the Raptor liner paint and its small profile It handles the NW tight trails and heavy brush without damage, and we still leave the built JKU at home on those trips.

 

[tjZ06]

at the time I did mine there were no options for longer lines that I could find, and IRO had provided some spacers that supposably moved the line enough that they were good. problem was it changed the routing a bit and the long arm kit I had used what they called an Iron Y on the left side that converted the Jeep to three link and provided the adjustment for camber. I had a brake line failure on a trip in Montana and attributed it to old brake lines so replaced it. Then it happened again here locally and upon lots of inspection I found that even at full stuff on the drivers side by using a jack I had clearance between the control arm and the frame, but when stuffing it hard under load the bump stop compressed and pinched the line enough to put a hole in it. have since change to IRO braided lines and modified the brake line bracket on the frame to move the line forward 3 inches to provide more length and move away from the pinch point. Now IRO has gone away from the three link and back to a full 4 link I believe. WE have a combination winch mount and tow bar setup on the front end for the past 3 years and still rides close to where it was, I do have a set of 1" coil spacers sitting on the shelf so those may go in at some point to get a bit more clearance at the front tires. The only other real issue I had with the suspension is the installation of longer coil retainers, essentially metal cylinders that have a long bolt up through the spring perch, they had to be tapped for the bolt as its only pretty much sheet metal you can not torque them much and both of mine eventually stripped out as there is no access to the back side. I probably could have gotten away with rivnuts but I made it more difficult and removed enough stuff in the engine bay to allow me to drill through the upper layer with a hole saw and place a thick washer and a real nut on the backside, solid as a rock now. I sometimes wish for a few more inches of lift for some bigger tires, but did not want to deal with the issues that come with it, and still do not want to cut my fenders, so 31" tires it is. I am still very surprised were it will take me, often far beyond my Michelle's comfort level lol. with the Raptor liner paint and its small profile It handles the NW tight trails and heavy brush without damage, and we still leave the built JKU at home on those trips.

Tire size w/o major trimming is def the WJ's achilles heel. FWIW I was able to run a ~31.6" at 4" lift without actual fender trimming, just front bumper and front inner wheel-well trimming (along w/ fog light delete and doing the ZJ washer bottle mod).

-TJ

 

[OTH Overland]

Tire size w/o major trimming is def the WJ's achilles heel. FWIW I was able to run a ~31.6" at 4" lift without actual fender trimming, just front bumper and front inner wheel-well trimming (along w/ fog light delete and doing the ZJ washer bottle mod).

-TJ

Michelle loves her WJ, we agreed not to cut up the body. She drives it every day to work since we got it in 2006, was sad when it got totaled 3 months after we got it, I bought it back from insurance to part it out and bought her a new commander, but she never like driving that as much, so I completely rebuilt her WJ and we have put another 140k on it along with a new color matched raptor lined paint job. Likely will be pulling the drive train one day soon and rebuilding that...lol Commander made it to 220k with no issues until we sold it last year to get the JKU, That one I get to modify any way I want lol.

 

[MidwestVoyager]

@OTH Overland @tjZ06 have either of you built and or installed a prefab rear drawer system? I'm kicking around some ideas on how to build one since the aftermarket lacks somewhat in this regard.

 

[OTH Overland]

We have built drawer systems for both our JKU and WJ, The JKU has a more conventional full size layout and system with 3 drawers on the right and a fridge slide on the right. It is based on long trips and includes water tank, electronics and storage under where the back seats were. The WJ has a minimalistic cabinet about a foot high with a single drawer on the right side and a Engel drawer fridge on the left. The cabinet just clears the rear tailgate and extends to the back of the rear seat. This is based on a run and gun, for mostly day and overnight trips. The box and drawer are heavy duty as the drawer carries tools, recovery gear, and emergency gear. This all lives in the Jeep full time, then we have a system of totes that we place on top of the drawer system depending on what trip we are on. Food and camping gear is in these so that they are portable and can be carried around to be under the awning or at a picnic table since we do not use a tailgate table. The Drawer system is mounted with a quick release system so I can remove it and get to the spare tire below as we have yet to build a tire carrier. Two turnbuckles and an electrical plug and the unit can be removed by sliding it forward slightly so hooks disengage factory brackets in the floor. The drawer fridge works awesome it is only 30 quart but for shorter trips it is plenty and takes up very little space and eliminates the cost / weight of a fridge slide. I will see if I can find photos, or if not will take a couple next time the Jeep is around in the daylight.

 

[MidwestVoyager]

We have built drawer systems for both our JKU and WJ, The JKU has a more conventional full size layout and system with 3 drawers on the right and a fridge slide on the right. It is based on long trips and includes water tank, electronics and storage under where the back seats were. The WJ has a minimalistic cabinet about a foot high with a single drawer on the right side and a Engel drawer fridge on the left. The cabinet just clears the rear tailgate and extends to the back of the rear seat. This is based on a run and gun, for mostly day and overnight trips. The box and drawer are heavy duty as the drawer carries tools, recovery gear, and emergency gear. This all lives in the Jeep full time, then we have a system of totes that we place on top of the drawer system depending on what trip we are on. Food and camping gear is in these so that they are portable and can be carried around to be under the awning or at a picnic table since we do not use a tailgate table. The Drawer system is mounted with a quick release system so I can remove it and get to the spare tire below as we have yet to build a tire carrier. Two turnbuckles and an electrical plug and the unit can be removed by sliding it forward slightly so hooks disengage factory brackets in the floor. The drawer fridge works awesome it is only 30 quart but for shorter trips it is plenty and takes up very little space and eliminates the cost / weight of a fridge slide. I will see if I can find photos, or if not will take a couple next time the Jeep is around in the daylight.

Thank you, I'd appreciate some pictures. That's similar to what I'm envisioning. I'll move my spare to the tire carrier and plan to build an access door to the spare wheel well for stowing infrequently used items. A drawer on one side with a fridge on the other would be great, coupled with a nice flat space above. I like to cook so I thought about building in a slide out on top of the drawer and fridge that would be below the top of the cabinet. I'd use a 3/4" or 1" plywood for the top to eliminate bowing with gear on top. The slide out would be the full width of the unit and would allow me a space for cooking and cutting. You can get poly cutting board material in 1" commercial thickness, I'd just attach that right on the heavy drawer slides for a versatile surface without the need of extra cutting boards coming along.

 

[OTH Overland]

I used 1/2" ply for the JKU and 3/4" for the WJ, have carried around about a hundred pounds of tools/gear etc in the WJ drawer with a bunch of gear on top and had no issues with deflection or damage to drawer. I use a marine slam latch for the drawer and also have a thumbwheel on the side with a rubber brake pad that I can screw in to keep drawer open at any point and to take load of latch when closed and off road. first latch was plastic and did not last. I had thought about adding a slide out table, and if so would only do it on one side above the drawer so I could get to the fridge drawer when cooking, hate to take everything off and close table just to grab some ingredient I forgot. Also was worried about deflection without the center divider going all the way up. End result is with the totes there is a small ledge of cabinet top still exposed due to curve of rear hatch and that enough to cobble together a sandwich on the trail, and at camp we take out the totes and stack them to make a worksurface for the Jetboil and the open cabinet top becomes the kitchen counter. When we get around to moving the spare tire, I will take time to router out most of the bottom layer of plywood so I can remove the drawer and gain access to limited use items in the tire well, perhaps an onboard compressor and house battery. also removed plywood will lighten the cabinet a bit. could also make the sides out of 1/2 inch to save some weight. That being said the 3/4 takes fasteners much better and have had no pull out or splitting. The quality of plywood seems to have taken a plunge in the last few years and the "good" grade cabinet ply I purchased for the JKU build was horrible to work with, pocket screws split the layers apart like there was no glue in there. Fortunately that cabinet was simply a prototype that we have used for the past year with plans of building a second one after learning what worked well and poorly. Working on an alternate building method for the next version to save weight as a full seat delete and interior has proven to be uber heavy. Thinking of aluminum tubing with some type of composite panel either inserted or bonded to it. That way I can place tube where needed and have Rivnuts to install slides and fasteners. Found the 1/2" ply is not enough to support heavy drawer slides with out the motion working the screw loose, so I had to thru bolt all slides and hardware which does not look that great and can catch on items slid in alongside.

 

[tjZ06]

No, I never ended up building out a storage situation for my WJ. I wanted to, and had some ideas, but I switched my setup way too many times and never got around to it before it became OBE. I ended up towing an overland trailer with the WJ, then got a WK2 Trailhawk and used that w/ the trailer, then sold the trailer and Trailhawk and put the FWC on my truck. So now the WJ is more of a short-trip/wheeler type build and IDK if I really need a buildout in it. Still, what I had imagined up was removing the entire rear seat, then building a "platform" with 2 drawers (one of which maybe being a bit of a "kitchen" build-out) and having the passenger side have a flip-out thing that would go forward when I parked and slide the passenger front seat forward so it'd be long 'nough for me to sleep on. I figured I could put hatches into it for some storage in the rear seat footwell area. I just can't see building all of that in now, and adding that weight to an already heavy WJ (it weighs in over 5300lbs now) for something that I only use on 1-2 nighters.

-TJ

 

[MidwestVoyager]

Build update: Jeep is back from alignment shop. Caster angle is a bit high and here's why. Lift came with longer LCA's to account for caster loss with lift. I ended up having the shop pull off the 2" spacers so I ended up with right around 2" of lift and am still fitting 245/75 R17's ok. (they rub a little on the front fender but new ARB bumper will solve that) I was getting more than the 3.5" of lift that was advertised, I suspect because I swapped in brand new spring isolators on the bottoms (didn't run them on the top with the spacers). Ended up pulling the spacers and putting in the new stock top isolators. All in all I lost about 1.5" of lift. Drive shaft is no longer creating noise and no death wobble bringing her home at highway speeds. Caster angle shows 8 degree's from the shops print out. Because my driveline angle is now less severe than it was with the spacers, I've opted to replace the rezeppa joint on the transfer-case side of the front shaft (boot/dust seal is gone). A brand new joint is $40 on the aftermarket, compared to a $500 dc driveshaft, which may require me messing with pinion angle and in-turn the caster angle. I'll post pictures of the Jeep soon. Also saving $460 on a driveshaft replacement helps me justify ordering that ARB bumper and winch setup that's just been sitting in my 4wheel parts shopping cart!

 

[tjZ06]

Build update: Jeep is back from alignment shop. Caster angle is a bit high and here's why. Lift came with longer LCA's to account for caster loss with lift. I ended up having the shop pull off the 2" spacers so I ended up with right around 2" of lift and am still fitting 245/75 R17's ok. (they rub a little on the front fender but new ARB bumper will solve that) I was getting more than the 3.5" of lift that was advertised, I suspect because I swapped in brand new spring isolators on the bottoms (didn't run them on the top with the spacers). Ended up pulling the spacers and putting in the new stock top isolators. All in all I lost about 1.5" of lift. Drive shaft is no longer creating noise and no death wobble bringing her home at highway speeds. Caster angle shows 8 degree's from the shops print out. Because my driveline angle is now less severe than it was with the spacers, I've opted to replace the rezeppa joint on the transfer-case side of the front shaft (boot/dust seal is gone). A brand new joint is $40 on the aftermarket, compared to a $500 dc driveshaft, which may require me messing with pinion angle and in-turn the caster angle. I'll post pictures of the Jeep soon. Also saving $460 on a driveshaft replacement helps me justify ordering that ARB bumper and winch setup that's just been sitting in my 4wheel parts shopping cart!

Nice! I don't think you'll mind ~8 degrees of caster TBH. The spec is 6.5* with a range of 6.0-7.5*.



With as much lift as I ended up with in my WJ (best I can figure, about 7") and using JK axles I had to cut/rotate my Cs and we went for 7.5. Then again, I'm running hydro-assist so it overcomes the extra "weight" of the caster in the steering wheel (and then some). In general I'd always rather have a bit too much caster than too little.

-TJ

 

[OTH Overland]

Mine is right at 6.5, 6 leaves steering to light and prone to DW, just over 7 is where driveline vibration becomes detectable. Quit while I was ahead. Have a bit of noise coming from the T-Case, but it has 230k on it so not surprised, thought about changing to a part time transfer case, as the Quadra Drive is a pia to rebuild, but is really nice to have full time four wheel drive for Michelle to commute in the winter. Will probably go with a rebuild when it finally gives up the ghost.

 

[MidwestVoyager]

Updated after removing coil spacers