In the Public's eye

[MazeVX]

Hooking in from the other side... We do have similar problems over here, not in terms of future land use, as it is already forbidden, but in the public eye with modified vehicles in general.
In the past I was member of the tuning and performance car scene, we had several meets, officials and lesser officials.
Due to some people always breaking rules, the police started hunting us down, in the city, in the county and finally all over, every day, every time. On your way to work or in the evening... No matter when, they see you, they stop you.
Events got canceled and/or forbidden and so on, I think you get my point.

But what does it mean?
Every single owner is responsible, the only chance you have is to report idiots, work with the police or rangers or wildlife cops or whoever is in charge.
They need to know that not every 4x4 owner is the same, when the officials are on our side the word will spread to the normal people.

I'm just talking about my experience with cars, tuners and people here, just my opinion, my 2 cents...

Keep on doing the good stuff!

 

[Billiebob]

Okay, found what OP is talking about.

It's the 'Go Topless' Jeep event on Crystal Beach in Texas. Lots of vids and photos, looks more like a drunken brawl event more than a 4x4 event. Evidently lots of arrests and injuries; one guy got his head ran over. Based on all of this the locals have started a petition calling to end the event. It sounds like this event has always been a bit rowdy and has gotten worse over time.

Some events are not worthy of defending and should be cancelled.

 

[Billiebob]

You were doing so well, and then
May as well ask “Ford people” to start policing their own.
If I had to arbitrarily lump all those stupid people together, I’d definitely go with “Houstonians” over “Jeep people”.
And I don’t own or particularly like Jeeps, and I’ve lived in Houston twice. The only group to fairly label them under would be “trash”.
I can understand your indignity at the situation, especially if you’re a local, but not really your insistence that it be discussed here. No offense, but if you consider that group/event overlanding, then we have a very different definition of overlanding.

Well it is the truth. If you want to turn a blind eye to it, you will lose the right to off road or overland.

The OP mentioned Harley Davidson. The reason that image got turned around was because the HD Riders started to come down on guys running straight pipes.

You are right they are trash, and perhaps this should be in the "Off Topic" thread but it affects everything we want to do.

 

[Correus]

Hooking in from the other side... We do have similar problems over here, not in terms of future land use, as it is already forbidden, but in the public eye with modified vehicles in general.
In the past I was member of the tuning and performance car scene, we had several meets, officials and lesser officials.
Due to some people always breaking rules, the police started hunting us down, in the city, in the county and finally all over, every day, every time. On your way to work or in the evening... No matter when, they see you, they stop you.
Events got canceled and/or forbidden and so on, I think you get my point.

But what does it mean?
Every single owner is responsible, the only chance you have is to report idiots, work with the police or rangers or wildlife cops or whoever is in charge.
They need to know that not every 4x4 owner is the same, when the officials are on our side the word will spread to the normal people.

I'm just talking about my experience with cars, tuners and people here, just my opinion, my 2 cents...

Keep on doing the good stuff!

Isn't there some sort of insurance law getting ready to be passed in the EU that will just about shut down the entire 4x4 world over there? Something about 3rd party and premiums so high the normal person couldn't afford it?

I know there is legislation going on in Scotland that might bring it to its knees there, but I think that's for the older ones.

 

[Billiebob]

Here in my tiny village, you must have insurance to hold any public event. Even parade floats on July 1st are insured.
It is definitely an obstacle for the rednecks wanting to race lawn mowers.

 

[Correus]

Here in my tiny village, you must have insurance to hold any public event. Even parade floats on July 1st are insured.
It is definitely an obstacle for the rednecks wanting to race lawn mowers.

Same here, all events must be insured. What I was referring to in my last post is different. It's an insurance that the vehicle owner has to have for the vehicle. I guess it goes above and beyond the typical auto insurance coverage. IIRC it all started with a lawsuit out of Chezelslovakia. Something about a 4x4 vehicle backing into a ladder that a guy was on.

 

[LD5050]

Well it is the truth. If you want to turn a blind eye to it, you will lose the right to off road or overland.

The OP mentioned Harley Davidson. The reason that image got turned around was because the HD Riders started to come down on guys running straight pipes.

You are right they are trash, and perhaps this should be in the "Off Topic" thread but it affects everything we want to do.

My point was mostly missed I think. The OP should have posted the rant in a Jeep forum, in my opinion. The accusatory tone didn’t really belong here, and the “you Jeep people” solidified it.
Yes, the event affects us (me more than some of you, as my family visits Galveston and Crystal beach more than once every year. It’s the beach I grew up visiting.) But the weather affects us as well. I have about as much ability to change that as I do a Jeep event filled with young drunk disrespectful idiots is all I’m saying. Has nothing to do with turning a bling eye so much as having the opinion that the OP missed his target audience. He might also want to read up on the public beach situation in Texas and how it complicates and contributes to the specific problematic incident he posted about.
Safe travels!

 

[J.W.]

Can someone point out where the fiasco in Texas is being equated with overlanding? I haven’t seen anyone drawing that parallel. That’s like saying the spring breakers at Lake Havassu are representative of all boaters. Sure, there may be some grumpy old codgers out there shaking their canes and yelling “damn these 4X4 vehicles!” But I don’t think most people are equating a drunken gathering for “Go Topless Day” with Overlanding. The thing it Texas was a party weekend event. It was billed that way and the partiers are who showed up.

I’m not worried about my neighbors gathering torches and pitch forks just because I have a Jeep. I’m old. No one is going to mistake me for that bunch. The only thing “we” can do is set good examples individually. Every day.

“Go quietly amidst the noise an haste, and remember what peace there is in silence.” - Max Ehrmann

 

[Correus]

Can someone point out where the fiasco in Texas is being equated with overlanding? I haven’t seen anyone drawing that parallel. That’s like saying the spring breakers at Lake Havassu are representative of all boaters. Sure, there may be some grumpy old codgers out there shaking their canes and yelling “damn these 4X4 vehicles!” But I don’t think most people are equating a drunken gathering for “Go Topless Day” with Overlanding. The thing it Texas was a party weekend event. It was billed that way and the partiers are who showed up.

I’m not worried about my neighbors gathering torches and pitch forks just because I have a Jeep. I’m old. No one is going to mistake me for that bunch. The only thing “we” can do is set good examples individually. Every day.

“Go quietly amidst the noise an haste, and remember what peace there is in silence.” - Max Ehrmann

Agreed. I think that the "overlanding" craze has gotten to the point that the word itself has been so misused that it's become a buzzword that is now so associated with the 4x4 world it can't be disassociated from it. If that makes sense.

 

[Billiebob]

the OP missed his target audience

I agree this is an "Off Topic" for Overlanders but just like Suzy sipping her martini on her deck figuring these rednecks have to go..... we are very much a part of the audience affected and we best be more involved than Suzy or we will see more closures.

My favotite camping spot is the beach so yes, he is spot on targeting us.

If you don't vote you have no right to be critical of the result.

 

[LD5050]

What beach? This is a Texas public beach and that’s part of the problem, not it being a beach in general.
What vote? Locals are taking signatures to get the event cancelled, but they can’t stop people from gathering on that same beach just under a different event name, or no name at all. If you want to have a conversation about how public beaches in Texas are handled and policed, that seems applicable.

If you just need a HARUMPH out of me, you got it. HARUMPH! I officially condemn the actions of the people at this particular event, as well as any event or situation where the participants don’t respect nature, the law, or each other.
Just like pretty much every other member of this forum.

 

[MOAK]

Just because I drink a Jeep doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. The event in Texas was a mistake,it’s always been that bad. Back in 2016 there was a shooting,and a few other mishaps. I personally avoid large groups of people and off road events. After 2016 I said I’ll never go to a Motoring event. Since then Iv skipped all Jeep events,and overland bound rally’s and Expo’s. I will be one of the people that sign the partition to stop the Jeep event in Texas and also EJS I’m moab. I watched a few videos in YouTube and one guy ran over a woman while drunk,a guy flipped his rock crawling buggy and left it upside down for a few hours and all the oil and coolant drained on the grounds!!!!! There was trash being left on the trails and broken parts. Not just Jeep parts but Toyota parts also. It’s not just a Jeep problem it’s a people problem!!!!

Yes, it is a people problem, absolutely. However, one of the points I'm trying to make, without going to war with everyone here is the subject of clubs and self enforcing basic decency during a club event. In this case, it was a sanctioned Jeep event. Their name is on it, they own it, and they, whomever they may be, need to fix it buy cancelling the event, and then change the name of the "event" Going Topless or Going Naked carries a definition within the 4x4 community. Those same words mean something entirely different to the rest of the world. I'm with you, I simply do not go to any "events", save leading a tour through our local forests of 5 vehicles over 3 nights. ( hardly an event, just like minded people going 4x4 camping) . At the larger event, held in a pay for play park, if anyone gets out of line, they are banned for life. period. Is there a reason any of this is debatable?

I just watched a 4x4 vehicle commercial last night. As vehicles were traveling at high speeds on desert and forest dirt roads, the commentator actually reminds us that purchasing this vehicle would give one the freedom to make your own road. Not too many years ago the commentator on these types of commercials used to remark that one could "conquer" nature when behind the wheel of one of these vehicles. Doing away with major corporations that encourage owners to "make their own trail" and "conquering nature" utilizing billion dollar advertising campaigns would be a start in cleaning up the bad actors. Hey, language matters. Most of us know that these are simply ridiculous advertising slogans. It's those bad apples that don't know the difference, that are out there still attempting to "conquer" nature and "making their own roads". When they find out they can't do either, they scream freedom and end up in raucous mobs doing crap they ought to be arrested for. This may seem like two very disjointed discussions on my part but in my view they go hand in hand with one another. People do get a bit edgy when they find out that they cannot obtain something that was promised them.

Here in the Overlanding community we do a fine job of educating and policing our own. We are, by all intents and purposes, doing and being the very best stewards of our public lands as is possible. Other organizations ( in this case a Jeep event) need to start doing the same, or we will quickly loose the ability to access our public land by motorized vehicle.

 

[MOAK]

I like how you are saying “ToyOTa OWnerS DoNt Do thIS” when that Tacoma bro on Instagram was going around graffitiing his name on stuff in the wild and landmarks.

Just cause you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. Some people are just assholes. It’s the way things are

Hey,,,, I'm talking about sanctioned organized events... learn how to read

 

[MOAK]

You were doing so well, and then
May as well ask “Ford people” to start policing their own.
If I had to arbitrarily lump all those stupid people together, I’d definitely go with “Houstonians” over “Jeep people”.
And I don’t own or particularly like Jeeps, and I’ve lived in Houston twice. The only group to fairly label them under would be “trash”.
I can understand your indignity at the situation, especially if you’re a local, but not really your insistence that it be discussed here. No offense, but if you consider that group/event overlanding, then we have a very different definition of overlanding.

I don't consider that group to be "overlanders" at all. please re-read my original post so that you might better understand what I wrote. John Q Public doesn't see nor does he understand the difference....

 

[alexdnick]

So wtf is the point of this post if none of the people at these events are “us” lol. You really just worried about what some people every once in awhile think when they drive past you? Sheesh

 

[Dilldog]

To me the way I separate myself from the destructive rable is as a conservationist first and an overlander second. Currently the only "overlanding" I do is to get to remote water sampling sites to conduct environmental research. In my mind this is old school overlanding. I think of how and why it started, granted a big part of it is simple exploration, but to me there has always been an attachment between environmental science and conservation and overlanding. So if you want to separate yourselves, join up with a local waterkeeper and when youre out and about grab a few samples, its easy, fun, gives you a sense of purpose and the help will always be appreciated.

 

[J.W.]

Doing away with major corporations that encourage owners to "make their own trail" and "conquering nature" utilizing billion dollar advertising campaigns would be a start in cleaning up the bad actors.

Cool, let’s ban anything that gets less that 20 MPG. That way we can clean up the riff-raff. Better watch out, you and I are in the crosshairs of the legislators now.

I don't consider that group to be "overlanders" at all. please re-read my original post so that you might better understand what I wrote. John Q Public doesn't see nor does he understand the difference....

John Q Public doesn’t want drunk kids fighting on his beach. John Q Public doesn’t care what those kids are driving. If this is the cause you want to take up, carry the banner with my blessing. Plant your flag on the tallest hill and rally people to the cause of banning rear lockers. But I haven’t seen anywhere that equates this drunken brouhaha with the larger off road community. Not even with Jeep as a brand, and definitely not with overlanding.

Believe it or not, I’m not trying to pick a keyboard fight. But take a moment and step back. Realize that this is no different than Daytona Bike Week or Spring Break at PCB. Let the local municipality worry about the kids. Banning the event will just make them pick another spot to do stupid things.

 

[MazeVX]

Isn't there some sort of insurance law getting ready to be passed in the EU that will just about shut down the entire 4x4 world over there? Something about 3rd party and premiums so high the normal person couldn't afford it?

I know there is legislation going on in Scotland that might bring it to its knees there, but I think that's for the older ones.

Not sure if I understand you correctly, just push me a pm and let's talk about it.

 

[MOAK]

Cool, let’s ban anything that gets less that 20 MPG. That way we can clean up the riff-raff. Better watch out, you and I are in the crosshairs of the legislators now.


I'm a firm believer in the free markets. The big three are already in market share trouble and on a downward spiral that is very difficult for them to pull up from. I didn't suggest any legislation at all, they are quite capable of crashing and burning all on their own, with just a little push from informed customers. You mentioned "bike week" are you old enough to remember what "bike week" used to mean to John Q Public? In my opening post I discussed that very thing. The Harley crowd has worked diligently to weed out the bad actors over the past 40 years or so. Now riding a Harley is quite a respectable thing to do. I'm done here, for those of you that understand my original intention, hats off to you and thank you for your input. I really think it is a conversation that must be had. If we remain politely quiet, then we may just lose what we all enjoy doing the most. Thanks for the conversation...

 

[Dilldog]

... Doing away with major corporations that encourage..."conquering nature" ...

Better do away with religion first, it was the first "corporation" to create the idea that humanity is above nature, rather than the reality that we are a part of it.