In Reach and SPOT - CAUTION

[Overland A Far]

Michael - great video on the GPS mapping using the Garmin device but I wanted to make everyone aware of problems we have encountered using these devices.
Firstly I think they are great units and certainly can serve as one of the best survival/emergency response tools - but just a tool one in the kit and as a caution never totally rely on just one tool. GPS and satellite reception in remote, steep terrain and northern latitudes can be sketchy!
I and my partner were involved with the BMW Rocky Mountain Challenge held here in Alberta. As the campground/facility hosts and organizers we worked with BMW and their reps to set up the various trails and challenges. You can see these on line under the same name. Any dual sport bike enthusiast can take part regardless of make/model and it is really designed to help people improve their riding skills. Luckily we have had very few serious incidents with minor injuries and we have sweepers and ambulance attendants on the course.
During the last event a lady spilled her bike on a remote logging access road and was injured. Fellow bikers secured the site and were looking after the lady who was suspected to have abdomen and back injuries. As the event sweepers Dave and I came along behind finding the accident. One rider was using and In Reach with cell phone linking and the other a SPOT - both hit the SOS button!
I worked in that area for the last 25 years and suggested this was not going to work as my experience with this told me our latitude, mountain terrain and how the stars (satellites) line up just is not reliable. We were somewhat un-politely told to never mind it's under control. Really!
As the forest operations manager in that area I knew where we had remote "phone booths" a point on the landscape where we can get cell phone reception so Dave and I headed to that location (6 km distant) and by standing on the back of my truck, phone in the air was able to contact 911 and get the ambulance on-route. We provided clear directions and then dropped the call.
We went back to the accident site and let them know, loaded up the lady's bike and took it back to camp - passing the oncoming ambulance about 12 kilometers down the road. In follow up the local detachment never did get an emergency SOS report from either personal locator provider!
So be cautious! Again it's only 1 tool. Be prepared!

 

[Reid Adventures]

Michael - great video on the GPS mapping using the Garmin device but I wanted to make everyone aware of problems we have encountered using these devices.
Firstly I think they are great units and certainly can serve as one of the best survival/emergency response tools - but just a tool one in the kit and as a caution never totally rely on just one tool. GPS and satellite reception in remote, steep terrain and northern latitudes can be sketchy!
I and my partner were involved with the BMW Rocky Mountain Challenge held here in Alberta. As the campground/facility hosts and organizers we worked with BMW and their reps to set up the various trails and challenges. You can see these on line under the same name. Any dual sport bike enthusiast can take part regardless of make/model and it is really designed to help people improve their riding skills. Luckily we have had very few serious incidents with minor injuries and we have sweepers and ambulance attendants on the course.
During the last event a lady spilled her bike on a remote logging access road and was injured. Fellow bikers secured the site and were looking after the lady who was suspected to have abdomen and back injuries. As the event sweepers Dave and I came along behind finding the accident. One rider was using and In Reach with cell phone linking and the other a SPOT - both hit the SOS button!
I worked in that area for the last 25 years and suggested this was not going to work as my experience with this told me our latitude, mountain terrain and how the stars (satellites) line up just is not reliable. We were somewhat un-politely told to never mind it's under control. Really!
As the forest operations manager in that area I knew where we had remote "phone booths" a point on the landscape where we can get cell phone reception so Dave and I headed to that location (6 km distant) and by standing on the back of my truck, phone in the air was able to contact 911 and get the ambulance on-route. We provided clear directions and then dropped the call.
We went back to the accident site and let them know, loaded up the lady's bike and took it back to camp - passing the oncoming ambulance about 12 kilometers down the road. In follow up the local detachment never did get an emergency SOS report from either personal locator provider!
So be cautious! Again it's only 1 tool. Be prepared!

Thank you for sharing. I think that is a great point. That is why I am in the process of not only having the InReach but also APRS setup through Ham Radio to be able to send sms text and brief emails. I am just learning it’s limitations as well but will be another way to communicate

 

[Captain Chaos]

From what I understand, the inReach is supposed to keep trying until a satellite goes over.

 

[Overland A Far]

I think there are a couple or more issues with the process. 1 being satellite constellations. 2 being are the signals sometimes being scrambled? 3 reception in the north is not what it is closer to the equator and 4 - how effective is the transfer of the message to local agencies? We have used SPOT since it came out as a means of tracking our woods worker locations. We have a Working Alone legislation which drives the need to have routine/proven communication with workers who are alone and at higher risks of injury - they need to check in frequently and the SPOT In Reach helps - the tracking and I'm OK messages seem to get to the contact/safety buddy effectively but the SOS reliability is certainly in question. Like I said only a tool 1 of many you should use.
I use a SPOT and will continue to carry this as an aid!

 

[Plasmajab]

A lot of this is how the spot/inreach system is advertised. They make it out to be almost like an instant communicator and it really isn't. It never was and really wont be and its poorly explained.

And something to note for us overland, should you be heading up north as a few comm unites in Iqaluit found out, these don't work well. The bulk of the satellites are positioned around the equator. The further up you are, the less satellites are viable. And terrain can play a huge part of this.

The reason why is that the satellites will tend to pass low in the horizon. So if your in a valley, the signal wont reach. Period. Up there the satellites tend to pass elliptically on the horizon, (Edmonton and north). When we did research on them for IC and Parks Canada, we found that they often will appear on south east, come up 20' over the horizon and dip back down. Depending on time of day, position of the satellite, terrain, it may take a few hours for the signal to reach a satellite for that ideal "pass" where it can be seen.

Up north there are a lot of VHF services available. So the spot should be treated as the "Hail mary" device in a coms suite and not the sole communicator for anyone.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Good info to know, especially about traveling to our far north! Thanks @Plasmajab and @Overlandafar.

 

[Desert Runner]

A lot of this is how the spot/inreach system is advertised. They make it out to be almost like an instant communicator and it really isn't. It never was and really wont be and its poorly explained.

And something to note for us overland, should you be heading up north as a few comm unites in Iqaluit found out, these don't work well. The bulk of the satellites are positioned around the equator. The further up you are, the less satellites are viable. And terrain can play a huge part of this.

The reason why is that the satellites will tend to pass low in the horizon. So if your in a valley, the signal wont reach. Period. Up there the satellites tend to pass elliptically on the horizon, (Edmonton and north). When we did research on them for IC and Parks Canada, we found that they often will appear on south east, come up 20' over the horizon and dip back down. Depending on time of day, position of the satellite, terrain, it may take a few hours for the signal to reach a satellite for that ideal "pass" where it can be seen.

Up north there are a lot of VHF services available. So the spot should be treated as the "Hail mary" device in a coms suite and not the sole communicator for anyone.

This is so true. And your explanation is dead on. I had a business project that took me thru western Canada and Alaska. On my way to the coast, we had to go thru the mountains to Juneau. Our Sirus radio quit working because of the satellite shadow effect. It also quit when we were further north into Alaska proper(Fairbanks/Anchorage) due to the satellites being in orbit along the equator.

 

[TOMB]

I carry both Inreach and PLB. The Inreach works okay sending messages (slowly at time) here in the west. But, it uses the Iridium satellite system which can have issues. My ACR plb has a test mode to verify gps communication, this does drain the battery if done often, so I only do this test when in extreme remote areas. I do know the Iridium Next system is coming, but I don’t know how soon or if it will be better.

 

[Ubiety]

I carry both Inreach and PLB. The Inreach works okay sending messages (slowly at time) here in the west. But, it uses the Iridium satellite system which can have issues. My ACR plb has a test mode to verify gps communication, this does drain the battery if done often, so I only do this test when in extreme remote areas. I do know the Iridium Next system is coming, but I don’t know how soon or if it will be better.

What issues do you have with Iridium? Iridium operates low to medium orbit satellites - not geos - so they will not be in the same place in the sky (as a geo is). The nature of leo/meo satellites is that they move across the sky. If you have no obstructions you should be able to get "service" within minutes - if you are in a canyon it will take longer to see a bird and your pass time will be shorter.

 

[TOMB]

What issues do you have with Iridium? Iridium operates low to medium orbit satellites - not geos - so they will not be in the same place in the sky (as a geo is). The nature of leo/meo satellites is that they move across the sky. If you have no obstructions you should be able to get "service" within minutes - if you are in a canyon it will take longer to see a bird and your pass time will be shorter.

I was in Puerto Rico for disaster recovery from Hurricane Maria, the sky was clear at times and no obstructions. Using different satellite phones by various manufacturers, all were unreliable, hard time connecting, when they did connect communication was poor at best. All of these were Iridium based. Better than nothing, but not much.

 

[Ubiety]

I was in Puerto Rico for disaster recovery from Hurricane Maria, the sky was clear at times and no obstructions. Using different satellite phones by various manufacturers, all were unreliable, hard time connecting, when they did connect communication was poor at best. All of these were Iridium based. Better than nothing, but not much.

We had a couple of our satcom terminals in PR, after Maria, mounted on RAZR vehicles and spreading WiFi, etc. Thank you for your efforts! I am not that familiar with Iridium voice service, but have found SBD (short burst data) to be pretty decent - as long as there is a bird overhead and you are not obstructed. Of course a phone conversation would take a lot more data so I can see that could have been an issue. I posted a thread yesterday detailing my use of Iridium to get SMS message in/out of the wild places. If you are interested in doing something like this let me know.

Edit - funny just noticed you are in Clovis. My wife grew up there; spent winters in Clovis (or Fresburgh as I call it) and summers up at Hume Lake where her father worked. Cue its a small world ;)