Explorer I
- 3,680
- First Name
- Brian
- Last Name
- McGahuey
- Member #
-
23711
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- GMRS WRMV941
US Northwest Idaho BDR (and then some!)
- Thread starter armyRN
- Start date
-
- Tags
- us northwest
Member III
Report time (hopefully other participants will post).
We finished the IDBDR. We started with seven vehicles (all Jeeps or Toyotas). Five finished. One dropped out because he had a planned visit with a friend close to the route (and he was having alternator issues with his Yota). Another dropped out because (I think, he didn't really tell us why) he lived up there and was close to home one day.
It took us nine days to complete (although the BDR is broken down into eight sections). The trail, while not technically difficult, was rough (for both vehicles and drivers!). Lots of bouncing, and very dusty! We had beautiful weather every day though - sunny and warm. If the trails had been wet and sloppy, it might have bordered on being dangerous to drive some sections.
We had three vehicle issues:
1. The previously mentioned alternator light issues (might have been an issue with his dual battery set-up).
2. Slit tire sidewall (he put his spare on, then went to town and got another tire and caught up with us the next day or so).
3. Camshaft position sensor acting up (this was me). Took most of a day for me to get the part and catch up with the group in Wallace, ID).
Views were spectacular - photos don't do it justice. Lots of water. Lots of places to camp, although campsites weren't always there when you wanted them (so sometimes days got a little longer on the road than you wanted till we could find a place for the group to camp). Never an issue finding gasoline, but mostly they were one-pump towns so filling everyone up took longer than I would have liked. Cell service for the most part was nonexistent.
Hopefully everyone had a good time. I did.
We finished the IDBDR. We started with seven vehicles (all Jeeps or Toyotas). Five finished. One dropped out because he had a planned visit with a friend close to the route (and he was having alternator issues with his Yota). Another dropped out because (I think, he didn't really tell us why) he lived up there and was close to home one day.
It took us nine days to complete (although the BDR is broken down into eight sections). The trail, while not technically difficult, was rough (for both vehicles and drivers!). Lots of bouncing, and very dusty! We had beautiful weather every day though - sunny and warm. If the trails had been wet and sloppy, it might have bordered on being dangerous to drive some sections.
We had three vehicle issues:
1. The previously mentioned alternator light issues (might have been an issue with his dual battery set-up).
2. Slit tire sidewall (he put his spare on, then went to town and got another tire and caught up with us the next day or so).
3. Camshaft position sensor acting up (this was me). Took most of a day for me to get the part and catch up with the group in Wallace, ID).
Views were spectacular - photos don't do it justice. Lots of water. Lots of places to camp, although campsites weren't always there when you wanted them (so sometimes days got a little longer on the road than you wanted till we could find a place for the group to camp). Never an issue finding gasoline, but mostly they were one-pump towns so filling everyone up took longer than I would have liked. Cell service for the most part was nonexistent.
Hopefully everyone had a good time. I did.
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Member III
"And Then Some..."
So five finished the IDBDR. Of the five, one person only planned to do the BDR, so he I think took the long way home (hopefully he'll post his trip home). That left four of us to do the Pacific Ocean Spur ("POS" - I hate that name for it - I'm calling it the "Spur"). Two of the four were buddies from way back, and they were going to get their vehicles serviced and take the slow route. So that left me and Steve.
The Spur is a branch off the TAT (Trans America Trail).
Link to the Spur: Pacific Ocean Spur: aka POS (Old Oregon) – TransAm Trail
Steve and I started the Spur about 250 miles or so west of Arco ID (we cheated - we knew what the high desert of ID looked like so we jumped ahead) near the OR border (or maybe a little bit into OR). Once on the Spur we stayed on the Spur. Took us about a day to get to the start after finishing the BDR (and we needed to do laundry, so we got a late start heading to the Spur after finishing the BDR).
The Spur was spectacular. OR is beautiful. Primitive campsites were plentiful, and I think most nights were spent camped next to running water. The route was a mixture (like the BDR) of paved roads, gravel roads, and dirt roads (sometimes very narrow and rough roads). Took us about five days to do the Spur. With just the two of us we made excellent time. Finding gas was never an issue, but sometimes I'd just pour the Jerry into the gas tank while on the trail just so I wouldn't have to be looking at the gauge, and then when we got to a station I'd fill it back up (seems like I did that more than once on the BDR too).
We finished the Spur around 1100 on Wednesday, then parted ways. Steve was going to do more exploring, and I was heading home. I got home about 1900 that evening (exhausted). Now I'm working on cleaning the Jeep and trailer.
No real vehicle issues on the Spur. Steve had an issue with his electric fridge, but he cleaned out the workings and blew out the dust from the circuit board, and it seemed to have fixed it. I had a rock flung from my tire hit my driver's side view mirror and crack the glass. Still usable on the trip, but ordered a new side view mirror when I got home.
I'd recommend both the IDBDR and the Spur to anyone wanting a roughly weeklong overlanding trip (each) with spectacular views, not too technical trails, and lots of camping sites available (lots of primitive sites, and many free forest service campgrounds with pit toilets).
So five finished the IDBDR. Of the five, one person only planned to do the BDR, so he I think took the long way home (hopefully he'll post his trip home). That left four of us to do the Pacific Ocean Spur ("POS" - I hate that name for it - I'm calling it the "Spur"). Two of the four were buddies from way back, and they were going to get their vehicles serviced and take the slow route. So that left me and Steve.
The Spur is a branch off the TAT (Trans America Trail).
Link to the Spur: Pacific Ocean Spur: aka POS (Old Oregon) – TransAm Trail
Steve and I started the Spur about 250 miles or so west of Arco ID (we cheated - we knew what the high desert of ID looked like so we jumped ahead) near the OR border (or maybe a little bit into OR). Once on the Spur we stayed on the Spur. Took us about a day to get to the start after finishing the BDR (and we needed to do laundry, so we got a late start heading to the Spur after finishing the BDR).
The Spur was spectacular. OR is beautiful. Primitive campsites were plentiful, and I think most nights were spent camped next to running water. The route was a mixture (like the BDR) of paved roads, gravel roads, and dirt roads (sometimes very narrow and rough roads). Took us about five days to do the Spur. With just the two of us we made excellent time. Finding gas was never an issue, but sometimes I'd just pour the Jerry into the gas tank while on the trail just so I wouldn't have to be looking at the gauge, and then when we got to a station I'd fill it back up (seems like I did that more than once on the BDR too).
We finished the Spur around 1100 on Wednesday, then parted ways. Steve was going to do more exploring, and I was heading home. I got home about 1900 that evening (exhausted). Now I'm working on cleaning the Jeep and trailer.
No real vehicle issues on the Spur. Steve had an issue with his electric fridge, but he cleaned out the workings and blew out the dust from the circuit board, and it seemed to have fixed it. I had a rock flung from my tire hit my driver's side view mirror and crack the glass. Still usable on the trip, but ordered a new side view mirror when I got home.
I'd recommend both the IDBDR and the Spur to anyone wanting a roughly weeklong overlanding trip (each) with spectacular views, not too technical trails, and lots of camping sites available (lots of primitive sites, and many free forest service campgrounds with pit toilets).
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Member III
Random thoughts or take-aways from both trips (IDBDR and the Spur) in no particular order (just as I think of them):
1. Trails are narrow. Lots of trees had been down and cut to clear the trail. They didn't do us any favors by cutting the fallen trees - lots of times you had to squeeze between the stumps sticking out on either side of you. I had thought about bringing my full-size reg cab SWB half-ton truck (4x4) on this trip, but brought the Jeep TJ & trailer instead. Glad I did - really these PNW trails are more suited for Jeeps (TJ, JKU, etc.) and mid-size Toyotas (4-Runners, etc.) than full size vehicles.
2. Keep trailers small! Mine is a munchkin trailer compared to lots of them out there. They should be no wider (measured outside of tire to other outside of tire) or taller than your tow vehicle, and the smaller/shorter/narrower the better (mine is actually a bit narrower than my TJ). As mentioned above, these PNW trails can get narrow, lots of hairpin turns, and tight. Thanks Steve for the picture below.
3. Campsites won't always be conveniently located on either when you want them (seemed more plentiful on the Spur though). There are plenty out there, but when you're going up and around a mountain and back down on a shelf road, you're not gonna find one till you're done with that stretch. Don't get worked up about it - it is part of the adventure, and don't complain (won't do any good anyways).
4. Gas stations marked on the routes (especially the IDBDR - not so much the Spur) are sometimes one-pump affairs in small "towns" (if that) with dirt roads. Which means they might not be open when you get there, and due to their remote locations, they might not have gas. And your MPG is going to suck on the trails. So bring extra gas just-in-case. More than once I was between half and a quarter tank, and when we stopped, I'd just go ahead and pour in the Jerry just so I wouldn't be feeling like I needed to be watching the gauge. I think maybe once I might have run out of gas (in the tank) if I hadn't done that. TJ's don't have the greatest range.
5. Pay attention to fire bans. On the Spur, we passed a fire crew putting out a fire along the side of the road.
6. We were in bear country. Never saw one, but I still had bear spray in the tent at night. But there is safety in numbers.
7. Carry a spare tire (required on this trip). We had someone cut a sidewall on a new vehicle - was not repairable. He had a spare, so he could swap it and keep going till he could get it replaced.
8. We had one instance on the BDR where there was a tree down blocking the path about five feet off the ground and fairly good sized. Two in our group had electric chain saws which quickly remedied the issue. I carried a larger gas chain saw, and they had it cut before I could have got mine out and started-up. It would have been a bit of work to try and cut this tree by hand.
9. Lots of ATVs out there driven by folks of all ages. And quite a few folks on motorcycles doing the BDR. Be nice to them - they have a right to the road too. Lots of folks seem to use their side-by-sides as their cars out in the boonies. Kinda cool seeing older couples riding in them.
10. Route for both were in many places extremely dusty for very long stretches. We would be spread out so you could see in front of you, but your vehicle inside and out would be filthy covered with a fine dusting of dirt (and my trailer's inside also got very dirty, even with a lid and gasket). So plan on it - figure it's going to happen. I wasn't really expecting it, but wasn't surprised when it happened. I replaced my air filter in Port Orford before heading home.
11. If the trails had been wet and sloppy, it might have been dangerous to drive some sections. There were sections with downhill hairpin turns and no guard rails - would be easy to slide off and go off a cliff if you lost control (and it was a long way down!). Me pulling a trailer it was an anchor going uphill, and it would be pushing me going downhill. Something to think about.
12. Lots of free-range cattle on the Spur (we called them "Oregon elk"). You never know when a calf might dart in front of you. Just be aware. Usually if you were crossing over cattle guards or saw cattle poop on the road, you knew to be on the look-out.
13. For the most part, we aired down our tires at the start and kept them aired down for the duration of the trip. Around 20 PSI seemed to be a good compromise. Don't forget to air down your trailer's tires too. If you're going to be doing long pavement stretches you might want to air back up, but for the most part we were never on pavement long (ok; maybe as we were nearing the end of the BDR) to make it worth airing back up just to air back down again in a little bit. Steve and I were aired back up from the end of the BDR till we started the Spur, and as soon as we hit the Spur we aired back down for pretty much the duration of the Spur.
14. Mainly on the BDR, grocery stores were not an everyday affair, and even then they were often on the small side with a small selection. So if there's something special you like to eat, bring plenty of it at the start. I ran out of dehydrated hash browns (the ones that come in the little milk cartons) and never could find any more for the duration of the trip (BDR and Spur). Near the end of the trip on the Spur I found some hash browns (shredded potatoes) in the refrigerator section at a grocery store in a plastic bag.
1. Trails are narrow. Lots of trees had been down and cut to clear the trail. They didn't do us any favors by cutting the fallen trees - lots of times you had to squeeze between the stumps sticking out on either side of you. I had thought about bringing my full-size reg cab SWB half-ton truck (4x4) on this trip, but brought the Jeep TJ & trailer instead. Glad I did - really these PNW trails are more suited for Jeeps (TJ, JKU, etc.) and mid-size Toyotas (4-Runners, etc.) than full size vehicles.
2. Keep trailers small! Mine is a munchkin trailer compared to lots of them out there. They should be no wider (measured outside of tire to other outside of tire) or taller than your tow vehicle, and the smaller/shorter/narrower the better (mine is actually a bit narrower than my TJ). As mentioned above, these PNW trails can get narrow, lots of hairpin turns, and tight. Thanks Steve for the picture below.
3. Campsites won't always be conveniently located on either when you want them (seemed more plentiful on the Spur though). There are plenty out there, but when you're going up and around a mountain and back down on a shelf road, you're not gonna find one till you're done with that stretch. Don't get worked up about it - it is part of the adventure, and don't complain (won't do any good anyways).
4. Gas stations marked on the routes (especially the IDBDR - not so much the Spur) are sometimes one-pump affairs in small "towns" (if that) with dirt roads. Which means they might not be open when you get there, and due to their remote locations, they might not have gas. And your MPG is going to suck on the trails. So bring extra gas just-in-case. More than once I was between half and a quarter tank, and when we stopped, I'd just go ahead and pour in the Jerry just so I wouldn't be feeling like I needed to be watching the gauge. I think maybe once I might have run out of gas (in the tank) if I hadn't done that. TJ's don't have the greatest range.
5. Pay attention to fire bans. On the Spur, we passed a fire crew putting out a fire along the side of the road.
6. We were in bear country. Never saw one, but I still had bear spray in the tent at night. But there is safety in numbers.
7. Carry a spare tire (required on this trip). We had someone cut a sidewall on a new vehicle - was not repairable. He had a spare, so he could swap it and keep going till he could get it replaced.
8. We had one instance on the BDR where there was a tree down blocking the path about five feet off the ground and fairly good sized. Two in our group had electric chain saws which quickly remedied the issue. I carried a larger gas chain saw, and they had it cut before I could have got mine out and started-up. It would have been a bit of work to try and cut this tree by hand.
9. Lots of ATVs out there driven by folks of all ages. And quite a few folks on motorcycles doing the BDR. Be nice to them - they have a right to the road too. Lots of folks seem to use their side-by-sides as their cars out in the boonies. Kinda cool seeing older couples riding in them.
10. Route for both were in many places extremely dusty for very long stretches. We would be spread out so you could see in front of you, but your vehicle inside and out would be filthy covered with a fine dusting of dirt (and my trailer's inside also got very dirty, even with a lid and gasket). So plan on it - figure it's going to happen. I wasn't really expecting it, but wasn't surprised when it happened. I replaced my air filter in Port Orford before heading home.
11. If the trails had been wet and sloppy, it might have been dangerous to drive some sections. There were sections with downhill hairpin turns and no guard rails - would be easy to slide off and go off a cliff if you lost control (and it was a long way down!). Me pulling a trailer it was an anchor going uphill, and it would be pushing me going downhill. Something to think about.
12. Lots of free-range cattle on the Spur (we called them "Oregon elk"). You never know when a calf might dart in front of you. Just be aware. Usually if you were crossing over cattle guards or saw cattle poop on the road, you knew to be on the look-out.
13. For the most part, we aired down our tires at the start and kept them aired down for the duration of the trip. Around 20 PSI seemed to be a good compromise. Don't forget to air down your trailer's tires too. If you're going to be doing long pavement stretches you might want to air back up, but for the most part we were never on pavement long (ok; maybe as we were nearing the end of the BDR) to make it worth airing back up just to air back down again in a little bit. Steve and I were aired back up from the end of the BDR till we started the Spur, and as soon as we hit the Spur we aired back down for pretty much the duration of the Spur.
14. Mainly on the BDR, grocery stores were not an everyday affair, and even then they were often on the small side with a small selection. So if there's something special you like to eat, bring plenty of it at the start. I ran out of dehydrated hash browns (the ones that come in the little milk cartons) and never could find any more for the duration of the trip (BDR and Spur). Near the end of the trip on the Spur I found some hash browns (shredded potatoes) in the refrigerator section at a grocery store in a plastic bag.
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Explorer I
- 3,680
- First Name
- Brian
- Last Name
- McGahuey
- Member #
-
23711
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- GMRS WRMV941
Great info! We're doing the bdr next year, and your post-trip is extremely helpful.
Pathfinder III
- 5,200
- First Name
- Kent
- Last Name
- Reynolds
- Member #
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1632
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- K6KNT
- Service Branch
- Retired Firefighter
Member III
A couple other afterthoughts....
1. I think most of us used GAIA on the trip. It worked fine. But if you can download maps onto whatever you're using on the trail while you have internet connection, then you can use them when offline on the trip. It'll just make it easier to follow your GPS tracks.
2. If you're doing a BDR, along with downloading the GPS tracks, definitely order the paper maps. They're only like $15.00 each, and totally worth it in my opinion. The paper maps give you a much better big picture view of where you're going, and what's around you. They also give info as to what's on the section you're doing, and what's at the end.
3. When we started out the BDR, not everyone had a HAM license, so we used GMRS (I have a GMRS license). After a couple of folks dropped out, we realized everyone left had their HAM license, so we switch from GRMS to HAM. I was using a recently purchased BTECH UV-25x2 HAM dual band radio (25 watt) that also would send & receive on GMRS frequencies. So that's what I used for both GMRS and HAM communication. It worked well for me, and did what I wanted it to do. It is small, and is mounted on top of my CB radio in the Jeep, and is connected to an external HAM radio antenna. Current GMRS rules limit you to 50 watts, so I was well under the max watts allowed.
Link: UV-25X2 - BaoFeng Tech
BaoFeng also sells a larger 50 watt dual band HAM radio if you were so inclined. HAM radio purists might scoff at the thought of a BaoFeng HAM radio (and have issues with using it for GMRS), but my 25 watt radio was inexpensive and worked for me just fine.
Link: UV-50X2 - BaoFeng Tech
1. I think most of us used GAIA on the trip. It worked fine. But if you can download maps onto whatever you're using on the trail while you have internet connection, then you can use them when offline on the trip. It'll just make it easier to follow your GPS tracks.
2. If you're doing a BDR, along with downloading the GPS tracks, definitely order the paper maps. They're only like $15.00 each, and totally worth it in my opinion. The paper maps give you a much better big picture view of where you're going, and what's around you. They also give info as to what's on the section you're doing, and what's at the end.
3. When we started out the BDR, not everyone had a HAM license, so we used GMRS (I have a GMRS license). After a couple of folks dropped out, we realized everyone left had their HAM license, so we switch from GRMS to HAM. I was using a recently purchased BTECH UV-25x2 HAM dual band radio (25 watt) that also would send & receive on GMRS frequencies. So that's what I used for both GMRS and HAM communication. It worked well for me, and did what I wanted it to do. It is small, and is mounted on top of my CB radio in the Jeep, and is connected to an external HAM radio antenna. Current GMRS rules limit you to 50 watts, so I was well under the max watts allowed.
Link: UV-25X2 - BaoFeng Tech
BaoFeng also sells a larger 50 watt dual band HAM radio if you were so inclined. HAM radio purists might scoff at the thought of a BaoFeng HAM radio (and have issues with using it for GMRS), but my 25 watt radio was inexpensive and worked for me just fine.
Link: UV-50X2 - BaoFeng Tech
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Influencer II
Big Kudos to @armyRN for setting up this trip! I had a great time, this was an excellent way of seeing a neighboring state, not something I would have done on my own.
Truly enjoyed getting to know Steve, Roger, John, Pete, and Larry! Great to see so many of us coming from all directions to take this trip together!
As Paul mentioned earlier, I took a different way home than the rest of the group. I followed the Northwest Passage northernmost route from Sandpoint to Oroville, then SR20 from Omak on west. Nice route, definitely different from the IDBDR. A small technical section west of Sandpoint before reaching Idaho state lands, technical meaning that I slowed down to pick a line in a few spots. After that it was mostly easy dirt roads. Spent the night at Summit Lake Campground (48.95787, -118.12621) before heading out next morning. Some deer and cattle along the road, but nice views too. Road went all the way up to the Canadian border a couple of times. Also stopped by Molson Ghost Town, another great reason to come this way.
Summit Lake in the morning:
Canada - behind the fence and sign.
Truly enjoyed getting to know Steve, Roger, John, Pete, and Larry! Great to see so many of us coming from all directions to take this trip together!
As Paul mentioned earlier, I took a different way home than the rest of the group. I followed the Northwest Passage northernmost route from Sandpoint to Oroville, then SR20 from Omak on west. Nice route, definitely different from the IDBDR. A small technical section west of Sandpoint before reaching Idaho state lands, technical meaning that I slowed down to pick a line in a few spots. After that it was mostly easy dirt roads. Spent the night at Summit Lake Campground (48.95787, -118.12621) before heading out next morning. Some deer and cattle along the road, but nice views too. Road went all the way up to the Canadian border a couple of times. Also stopped by Molson Ghost Town, another great reason to come this way.
Summit Lake in the morning:
Canada - behind the fence and sign.
Influencer II
Lessons I learned on comms:
1) First trip I've been on where we didn't have interference while using GMRS!
2) When we spread out we need good comms setups. Using a handheld with an integrated or rubber ducky antenna doesn't cut it, it means someone else needs to relay messages.
3) External antenna is the most important part.
4) Have someone give you feedback on how you sound when talking on the radio. If you hold your microphone too close or talk too loud you'll get distorton and you'll be hard to hear. If you hold your microsphone too far away or you speak too softly we might not hear you either.
5) Assume the radio will swallow your first word, make sure it isn't important. That, or take a breath after pressing the PTT button and before you start speaking. Pressing PTT while saying "left at the intersection" leaves other wondering which direction to take at the intersection.
6) A sattelite messenger is useful for keeping in touch when someone temporarily leaves the group for repairs or other errands. I text messaged them using my inreach, and they could see the location from where I sent the message. Of course, they can only receive when they have cell service, unless they also have a sattelite messenger. Used this multiple times!
1) First trip I've been on where we didn't have interference while using GMRS!
2) When we spread out we need good comms setups. Using a handheld with an integrated or rubber ducky antenna doesn't cut it, it means someone else needs to relay messages.
3) External antenna is the most important part.
4) Have someone give you feedback on how you sound when talking on the radio. If you hold your microphone too close or talk too loud you'll get distorton and you'll be hard to hear. If you hold your microsphone too far away or you speak too softly we might not hear you either.
5) Assume the radio will swallow your first word, make sure it isn't important. That, or take a breath after pressing the PTT button and before you start speaking. Pressing PTT while saying "left at the intersection" leaves other wondering which direction to take at the intersection.
6) A sattelite messenger is useful for keeping in touch when someone temporarily leaves the group for repairs or other errands. I text messaged them using my inreach, and they could see the location from where I sent the message. Of course, they can only receive when they have cell service, unless they also have a sattelite messenger. Used this multiple times!
Influencer II
Lessons I learned on convoying:
1) There will be dust, lots of dust... Lead will want to keep the convoy together, and those in the back will want to spread out. Occassionally we would wait after a turn for everyone to make the turn, this meant those in the back would be waiting or crawling at a very slow speed for a long time to re-establish the distance between vehicles.
2) Better to do stop-wait. Each vehicle waits for the one behind them, then proceeds. Makes it less of a pain for those towards the end of the convoy.
3) Good to call out each turns, but calling out obvious spurs to ignore can be confusing.
4) Avoid having multiple turn called out between lead and tail. This is true even when the called out turn is to ignore spurs.
5) Having navigator(s) behind the lead calling out turns up front is very helpful, and in our case the lead would acknowledge the call-out and this would keep everyone informed. Kudos to John & Steve in particular for our trip.
6) Backing out of a wrong turn while pulling a trailer can be difficult...
7) We're more likely to make mistakes towards the end of the day.
1) There will be dust, lots of dust... Lead will want to keep the convoy together, and those in the back will want to spread out. Occassionally we would wait after a turn for everyone to make the turn, this meant those in the back would be waiting or crawling at a very slow speed for a long time to re-establish the distance between vehicles.
2) Better to do stop-wait. Each vehicle waits for the one behind them, then proceeds. Makes it less of a pain for those towards the end of the convoy.
3) Good to call out each turns, but calling out obvious spurs to ignore can be confusing.
4) Avoid having multiple turn called out between lead and tail. This is true even when the called out turn is to ignore spurs.
5) Having navigator(s) behind the lead calling out turns up front is very helpful, and in our case the lead would acknowledge the call-out and this would keep everyone informed. Kudos to John & Steve in particular for our trip.
6) Backing out of a wrong turn while pulling a trailer can be difficult...
7) We're more likely to make mistakes towards the end of the day.
Member III
Yeah; this was basically one long Overlanding Convoy Operation. Good points!
Fortunately we had a system in place for convoy communications that seemed to work very well. My fear on these kinda trips is that someone will take a wrong turn or get separated from the group. While we (ok... me when in the lead) took plenty of wrong turns, nobody got lost or separated on this trip thanks to the good teamwork of the group.
And I still can't back-up my trailer worth crap. While I love my lil' adventure trailer with its short length, when backing up one small wrong twitch of the steering wheel and you're jackknifed.
Advocate III
- 5,584
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- Michael
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- Rose
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20990
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- W7FSB
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- US ARMY Retired
That is where APRS comes in… I have several APRS transmitters that I have built and distribute on long journeys like this. I make sure the lead vehicle and tail vehicle have someone with an amateur radio license and a device capable of seeing APRS position reports. In the event a rig gets separated both lead and tail know and are able to get the wandering vehicle back on track easier…
Advocate II
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29953
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but now the quoted text has the number...fixed as of the time of this posting.
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Advocate II
- 1,597
- First Name
- Erich
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- Wise
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29953
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Just read through this epic thread...bravo. Never been on a large (or any really) convoy, always done solo...taking lots of notes.
One thing I noticed is it seems to me everyone likes to drive faster than I do...the distance seems like I would want to have taken twice the time and have it be more relaxed, but then maybe that would make it less relaxed for others? I dislike hunting for basecamp for the night for hours on end...so that could make it worse, but I definitely dont like driving fast on trail. I like slow and steady...will have to hit up one of these convoys (perhaps a shorter run) and see how it feels in terms of speed.
All the information, from planning through execution and to autopsy has been very helpful! thank you all for your time! (I would hope also more pics to follow from the group!)
One thing I noticed is it seems to me everyone likes to drive faster than I do...the distance seems like I would want to have taken twice the time and have it be more relaxed, but then maybe that would make it less relaxed for others? I dislike hunting for basecamp for the night for hours on end...so that could make it worse, but I definitely dont like driving fast on trail. I like slow and steady...will have to hit up one of these convoys (perhaps a shorter run) and see how it feels in terms of speed.
All the information, from planning through execution and to autopsy has been very helpful! thank you all for your time! (I would hope also more pics to follow from the group!)
Advocate III
- 5,584
- First Name
- Michael
- Last Name
- Rose
- Member #
-
20990
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- W7FSB
- Service Branch
- US ARMY Retired
Influencer II
What's too fast for one particiipant can seem like just right for another and vice versa. I haven't figured out how to recognize this ahead of time other than traveling together and learning about others' preferences. 100 miles per day might be fast in some sections, and 150 miles per day might be slow in others.
Another hard one to nail down unless someone has run the trail ahead of time and identified campsites. Sometimes it's obvious from maps where there will be sections without options to camp, but often we just don't know. Would be interesting to hear how others approach this particular problem.
Advocate III
- 5,584
- First Name
- Michael
- Last Name
- Rose
- Member #
-
20990
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- W7FSB
- Service Branch
- US ARMY Retired
Pre running the trail or sections of trail, or buying route maps from the organization that built the route are the two easiest ways to find camp sites while pre planning.
Typically when I build a route from linking together roads I look for camp sites that are marked on the NFS and BLM maps (sometimes state forestry maps as well). Usually you can find some dispersed areas to camp within a few miles of the camp ground.
Another wayI look for camp spots is look for man made structures on satellite imagery of the area I’m traveling.
Builder II
- 5,040
- First Name
- John
- Last Name
- DeLeon
- Member #
-
30489
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- KN6MGC
A couple of things I learned from the trip.
The Idaho BDR is a LONG route. I would encourage anyone doing this trip to take your time, or any BDR for that fact. This should have been a 10-11 day trip and not 9, especially if you really want to take in the side trips and enjoy the scenery.
I also learned that I don't really enjoy driving all day long and trying to get so many miles in per day.
I also learned that driving in a convoy definitely has it's pros and cons. There is safety in numbers, plenty of people to talk too, and sharing the experience with others. However, convoys make for long dust chains on the road, even if you spaced out. Large convoys means long wait times for the tail gunner to get caught up. Find a camp spot for 7+ vehicles is hard to do, especially if you have two people with a trailer.
All in all I learned a lot and I'm thankful for the experience.
The Idaho BDR is a LONG route. I would encourage anyone doing this trip to take your time, or any BDR for that fact. This should have been a 10-11 day trip and not 9, especially if you really want to take in the side trips and enjoy the scenery.
I also learned that I don't really enjoy driving all day long and trying to get so many miles in per day.
I also learned that driving in a convoy definitely has it's pros and cons. There is safety in numbers, plenty of people to talk too, and sharing the experience with others. However, convoys make for long dust chains on the road, even if you spaced out. Large convoys means long wait times for the tail gunner to get caught up. Find a camp spot for 7+ vehicles is hard to do, especially if you have two people with a trailer.
All in all I learned a lot and I'm thankful for the experience.
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Explorer I
- 3,680
- First Name
- Brian
- Last Name
- McGahuey
- Member #
-
23711
- Ham/GMRS Callsign
- GMRS WRMV941
I've found that 5-6 hours of driving time for me is about the sweet spot for me.
I also have found that large convoys definitely tend to slow things down. 4-6 vehicles works best in my experience. More than that, and you tend to experience exactly what you've mentioned. We typically have 2-4 vehicles in our groups, and it makes it very enjoyable.
Member III
To anyone thinking about setting up or organizing a trip like this, these (not-so-random thoughts) might be helpful....
1. What I usually do, is I think about a trip I'd like to take, and then decide if I want to go solo (has its own pros and cons) or organize it as a trip/Rally Point on OB. Like a lot of folks, my time is limited, so I have to squeeze the planned trip in there somewhere. I have a wife and a job too. So usually, I plan to be gone for just a week or two (maybe longer like for this IDBDR trip). So for this post, obviously I'll be talking about organizing a trip.
2. I've done enough of these kind-of trips over the last few decades (both as a participant and as a leader) to know what kind of "rules" (guidelines?) for vehicle requirements, comms, "do's and don'ts", convoy and other procedures, reasonable expectations, etc. I think are necessary. I've seen a lot of good and not-so-good over the years. So I post them all up front. I try to put everything up front, so folks know what to expect before they ever sign-up. I don't want anyone to be surprised about anything on day one ("What - no movie night?" "Can I drive buzzed on the trail?"). I try to put as much detail up front (more than some might think are necessary) so folks can decide if this trip is for them. And I want it to be fun for me too - I'm also going on an adventure here! This is not a paying gig for me (or you if you're setting one up) - it is work to set-up/organize and hope it works out well for everyone. Feel free to take any or all (or none) of my rules/guidelines (or whatever you want to call them) that I posted up-front, and edit them however you please if you're planning a group trip. At least think about them. One of my goals for the group of folks who sign-up (and who generally don't know one another initially) is for them to quickly gel into a group with a common goal and purpose, and to work together smoothly as a team for the duration of the trip. And putting everything out up front really pays off later on - there's rarely an issue once we get going.
3. "Pre-running" the trip is not an option for me (and probably same for others too unless maybe the route is in your backyard). I'm not (and often can't really) going to take two weeks to pre-run a route just to turn around and take another two weeks to take a group on the route. There're too many other places I want to see. I'm not going to pre-run a route and mark on a map every possible camping spot. Running a route solo (like I would be doing pre-running a route) takes less time than doing the same route with a group. Things can change between when you pre-ran the trip and a month later when you take a group (roads close or there are detours, vehicles break down or someone gets a flat, folks want to stop frequently to take pictures, etc.). Things just take longer when you're with a group (like lunch stops, fuel stops, etc.), and that isn't necessarily a bad thing - it is just a reality. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! So when I plan a trip like this, generally this is the first time I've run the planned route too. And I tell folks that up front.
4. Also tell folks up front that driving a BDR is work! This isn't like driving the Blue Ridge Parkway. Parts of the trail are rough. It will beat up both you and your vehicle. You will need to plan at least one recovery day when you get home. When driving the BDR, not only do you need to be watching the road in front of you, you need to be watching for what's sticking out on the trail on the sides of you, and above you all while you're bouncing on the rough dirt road. It all gets exhausting (fun, but exhausting). Vehicle damage is a real possibility. On this trip, on either the IDBDR or the Spur (the Spur was essentially the IDBDR but in OR as far as road conditions and scenery go), I had one of my tires (which stick out a little beyond the fender flares) fling a rock into the upper right-hand corner of my driver's side sideview mirror. It was still functional (there was enough glass left intact to see what I needed to see), but a new one has been ordered. I got off cheap on this one. I also got a lot more new trail pinstripes on the Jeep.
5. I like to get an early start driving in the morning (generally 0730 - maybe 30 minutes earlier or later depending) on my trips. I put out a specific time both on the Rally Point post and the night before when on the trail, so it isn't fuzzy as to when we're leaving in the morning. Folks tend to wake up with the sun when camping and are soon ready-to-go, and it is nice to start out driving when it is cool outside. I tell folks we will plan to stop for lunch around noon. And I try my best to stop around noon (might be literally stopped along the road in the shade in a wide spot on the road). And I keep lunch breaks short (30 minutes or so).
6. Here's the sticky part. I tell folks this up front (and I will repeat it often) both on the Rally Point and in the mornings, but sometimes folks still have a hard time with it (or they don't believe it is true or just don't like it). Here it is - real simple: "I have no idea exactly where we will be stopping for camp at the end of the day". Ideally for me for planning purposes we stop a little later in the afternoon (my ideal is around 1700 +/- a little bit) so we have plenty of time to set up camp, eat dinner, and sit around the campfire and relax. However, I have no way of knowing how far we will get that day (we're not racing). It depends on how we're doing; how many stops (and for how long) we've done and why, etc. We all have maps and apps, and there are campsites on the maps & apps, and campsites that aren't on the maps and apps. There are lots of dispersed campsites and unmarked campsites in the PNW. But they aren't always right there where you want them when you're ready to stop for the day. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! If you were doing this trip solo, the same thing would be happening to you - campsites aren't always there when you're ready to shut it down for the day - there is the "unknown" factor. Sometimes you've started a long shelf-road up and over and around a mountain, and there's no level spot coming up for a while. So you'll be driving for a while longer than you wanted. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! Remind folks of that. Sometimes the campsite you were shooting for on the map and were looking forward to is full of campers already so we have to keep going. Rest assured and you might have to remind folks, if you're tired, I'm probably tired too. If you're hungry, I'm probably hungry too. If you're cranky, I probably am even more so. If you're ready to be done driving for the day, I probably am too. But if we're on a long shelf-road or there just isn't anything out there at the moment (and we're all looking for one), there's nothing I or we can do about it. So kick back, enjoy the scenery, and figure eventually we'll be finding a campsite. Don't whine about it. On this IDBDR trip we never were driving anywhere near into the dark. On other trips we have - there just wasn't anything available for a while - it wasn't the highlight of that particular trip, but it happens sometimes.
7. When I post the trip on OB, I also post how long I expect it to take (it is a ballpark figure - an educated guess and/or based on what I've read from other doing the same trip) so folks can kinda plan. And sometimes my educated guess is pretty close - other times not so much (Steve and I did the Spur way faster than I thought we would, and we were going pretty chill driving). But I try to "keep us on schedule" so folks who have taken time off from work can hopefully finish the trip and get back home on time as they allotted. When doing the IDBDR it breaks it down into eight segments; I'll probably add a day-or-two to that just because, but that's what I'm thinking, and working off-of as to how long it will take, so that's what I put in the Rally Point. Most folks have a time-limit they can be gone from home. Usually my Jeep TJ and trailer are not the fastest combo in the group, so as leader I'm usually keeping us not on the slow side, but definitely not the fastest vehicle racing the course. Going fast on these kinda trips causes things to break, so I err on the driving slow(er) side. I want us to be able to enjoy the ride, but also balance in how long the trip will take. I tend to lean more to driving slow(er) but longer hours driving - but that is me. And I try to put that out up front too how long I plan for us to drive every day (till later in the afternoon usually) both on the OB page and when we get ready to leave every morning. For some folks, this kind of trip is new to them, and they've never really done this kinda driving.
8. It is also difficult to decide on how many participants to allow. You also have to figure in the no-shows (or folks who backout at the last minute) when posting the number on the Rally Point. What is the magical number? Answer - It is different for different folks - you decide what works for you as the leader. For me, ideally it is up to eight max (including me in the eight). I'm willing to take a group on the larger side and deal with the added complexities. Some folks might think 4-6 is the magical number; some might think three is just right, or just two (you and someone else). My goal is to get folks out there on an overlanding trip who might not go otherwise (and for me to not be going solo in the middle of nowhere) and to have fun. Lots of folks want to do a little overlanding trip, but they don't know where to start, where to go, and/or they don't want to go by themselves. So I'll organize a trip (I'm an organizer/planner by nature), lay it all out there what they need to know, and then they can decide ("self-select") if this trip is for them or not. I make it easy for folks - show up with the right day & time with the right gear and attitude and let's go. I've had lots of folks sign-up for my trips because of this very reason.
9. And this last one might be a little bit difficult for some to swallow, but here goes.... While of course you want everyone to have a good time, play nice together, and not whine at you, this is your trip. You set it up, you organized it, you put out the requirements and expectations and procedures. Folks who signed up should know what to expect. And while someone along the way might have a better idea than you (so be smart and take good advice - don't be too rigid), you're ultimately in charge of your trip. You will never be able to please everyone every time on the trip. Don't let someone else decide how you're going to run your trip.
I'm not the expert here (but I have done this more than once), but let me know if you have any questions, or if I can help you in any way in planning a group trip.
1. What I usually do, is I think about a trip I'd like to take, and then decide if I want to go solo (has its own pros and cons) or organize it as a trip/Rally Point on OB. Like a lot of folks, my time is limited, so I have to squeeze the planned trip in there somewhere. I have a wife and a job too. So usually, I plan to be gone for just a week or two (maybe longer like for this IDBDR trip). So for this post, obviously I'll be talking about organizing a trip.
2. I've done enough of these kind-of trips over the last few decades (both as a participant and as a leader) to know what kind of "rules" (guidelines?) for vehicle requirements, comms, "do's and don'ts", convoy and other procedures, reasonable expectations, etc. I think are necessary. I've seen a lot of good and not-so-good over the years. So I post them all up front. I try to put everything up front, so folks know what to expect before they ever sign-up. I don't want anyone to be surprised about anything on day one ("What - no movie night?" "Can I drive buzzed on the trail?"). I try to put as much detail up front (more than some might think are necessary) so folks can decide if this trip is for them. And I want it to be fun for me too - I'm also going on an adventure here! This is not a paying gig for me (or you if you're setting one up) - it is work to set-up/organize and hope it works out well for everyone. Feel free to take any or all (or none) of my rules/guidelines (or whatever you want to call them) that I posted up-front, and edit them however you please if you're planning a group trip. At least think about them. One of my goals for the group of folks who sign-up (and who generally don't know one another initially) is for them to quickly gel into a group with a common goal and purpose, and to work together smoothly as a team for the duration of the trip. And putting everything out up front really pays off later on - there's rarely an issue once we get going.
3. "Pre-running" the trip is not an option for me (and probably same for others too unless maybe the route is in your backyard). I'm not (and often can't really) going to take two weeks to pre-run a route just to turn around and take another two weeks to take a group on the route. There're too many other places I want to see. I'm not going to pre-run a route and mark on a map every possible camping spot. Running a route solo (like I would be doing pre-running a route) takes less time than doing the same route with a group. Things can change between when you pre-ran the trip and a month later when you take a group (roads close or there are detours, vehicles break down or someone gets a flat, folks want to stop frequently to take pictures, etc.). Things just take longer when you're with a group (like lunch stops, fuel stops, etc.), and that isn't necessarily a bad thing - it is just a reality. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! So when I plan a trip like this, generally this is the first time I've run the planned route too. And I tell folks that up front.
4. Also tell folks up front that driving a BDR is work! This isn't like driving the Blue Ridge Parkway. Parts of the trail are rough. It will beat up both you and your vehicle. You will need to plan at least one recovery day when you get home. When driving the BDR, not only do you need to be watching the road in front of you, you need to be watching for what's sticking out on the trail on the sides of you, and above you all while you're bouncing on the rough dirt road. It all gets exhausting (fun, but exhausting). Vehicle damage is a real possibility. On this trip, on either the IDBDR or the Spur (the Spur was essentially the IDBDR but in OR as far as road conditions and scenery go), I had one of my tires (which stick out a little beyond the fender flares) fling a rock into the upper right-hand corner of my driver's side sideview mirror. It was still functional (there was enough glass left intact to see what I needed to see), but a new one has been ordered. I got off cheap on this one. I also got a lot more new trail pinstripes on the Jeep.
5. I like to get an early start driving in the morning (generally 0730 - maybe 30 minutes earlier or later depending) on my trips. I put out a specific time both on the Rally Point post and the night before when on the trail, so it isn't fuzzy as to when we're leaving in the morning. Folks tend to wake up with the sun when camping and are soon ready-to-go, and it is nice to start out driving when it is cool outside. I tell folks we will plan to stop for lunch around noon. And I try my best to stop around noon (might be literally stopped along the road in the shade in a wide spot on the road). And I keep lunch breaks short (30 minutes or so).
6. Here's the sticky part. I tell folks this up front (and I will repeat it often) both on the Rally Point and in the mornings, but sometimes folks still have a hard time with it (or they don't believe it is true or just don't like it). Here it is - real simple: "I have no idea exactly where we will be stopping for camp at the end of the day". Ideally for me for planning purposes we stop a little later in the afternoon (my ideal is around 1700 +/- a little bit) so we have plenty of time to set up camp, eat dinner, and sit around the campfire and relax. However, I have no way of knowing how far we will get that day (we're not racing). It depends on how we're doing; how many stops (and for how long) we've done and why, etc. We all have maps and apps, and there are campsites on the maps & apps, and campsites that aren't on the maps and apps. There are lots of dispersed campsites and unmarked campsites in the PNW. But they aren't always right there where you want them when you're ready to stop for the day. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! If you were doing this trip solo, the same thing would be happening to you - campsites aren't always there when you're ready to shut it down for the day - there is the "unknown" factor. Sometimes you've started a long shelf-road up and over and around a mountain, and there's no level spot coming up for a while. So you'll be driving for a while longer than you wanted. IT IS PART OF THE ADVENTURE!!!!!! Remind folks of that. Sometimes the campsite you were shooting for on the map and were looking forward to is full of campers already so we have to keep going. Rest assured and you might have to remind folks, if you're tired, I'm probably tired too. If you're hungry, I'm probably hungry too. If you're cranky, I probably am even more so. If you're ready to be done driving for the day, I probably am too. But if we're on a long shelf-road or there just isn't anything out there at the moment (and we're all looking for one), there's nothing I or we can do about it. So kick back, enjoy the scenery, and figure eventually we'll be finding a campsite. Don't whine about it. On this IDBDR trip we never were driving anywhere near into the dark. On other trips we have - there just wasn't anything available for a while - it wasn't the highlight of that particular trip, but it happens sometimes.
7. When I post the trip on OB, I also post how long I expect it to take (it is a ballpark figure - an educated guess and/or based on what I've read from other doing the same trip) so folks can kinda plan. And sometimes my educated guess is pretty close - other times not so much (Steve and I did the Spur way faster than I thought we would, and we were going pretty chill driving). But I try to "keep us on schedule" so folks who have taken time off from work can hopefully finish the trip and get back home on time as they allotted. When doing the IDBDR it breaks it down into eight segments; I'll probably add a day-or-two to that just because, but that's what I'm thinking, and working off-of as to how long it will take, so that's what I put in the Rally Point. Most folks have a time-limit they can be gone from home. Usually my Jeep TJ and trailer are not the fastest combo in the group, so as leader I'm usually keeping us not on the slow side, but definitely not the fastest vehicle racing the course. Going fast on these kinda trips causes things to break, so I err on the driving slow(er) side. I want us to be able to enjoy the ride, but also balance in how long the trip will take. I tend to lean more to driving slow(er) but longer hours driving - but that is me. And I try to put that out up front too how long I plan for us to drive every day (till later in the afternoon usually) both on the OB page and when we get ready to leave every morning. For some folks, this kind of trip is new to them, and they've never really done this kinda driving.
8. It is also difficult to decide on how many participants to allow. You also have to figure in the no-shows (or folks who backout at the last minute) when posting the number on the Rally Point. What is the magical number? Answer - It is different for different folks - you decide what works for you as the leader. For me, ideally it is up to eight max (including me in the eight). I'm willing to take a group on the larger side and deal with the added complexities. Some folks might think 4-6 is the magical number; some might think three is just right, or just two (you and someone else). My goal is to get folks out there on an overlanding trip who might not go otherwise (and for me to not be going solo in the middle of nowhere) and to have fun. Lots of folks want to do a little overlanding trip, but they don't know where to start, where to go, and/or they don't want to go by themselves. So I'll organize a trip (I'm an organizer/planner by nature), lay it all out there what they need to know, and then they can decide ("self-select") if this trip is for them or not. I make it easy for folks - show up with the right day & time with the right gear and attitude and let's go. I've had lots of folks sign-up for my trips because of this very reason.
9. And this last one might be a little bit difficult for some to swallow, but here goes.... While of course you want everyone to have a good time, play nice together, and not whine at you, this is your trip. You set it up, you organized it, you put out the requirements and expectations and procedures. Folks who signed up should know what to expect. And while someone along the way might have a better idea than you (so be smart and take good advice - don't be too rigid), you're ultimately in charge of your trip. You will never be able to please everyone every time on the trip. Don't let someone else decide how you're going to run your trip.
I'm not the expert here (but I have done this more than once), but let me know if you have any questions, or if I can help you in any way in planning a group trip.
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