Help me choose a rig!

[StuntmanMike]

I'm new to the forum, and "overlanding". Actually, I consider myself more of a camper than "overlander", if there's a difference.

I typically tent camp for long weekends out of my '07 VolvoXC70, I bring my mountainbike and camp where I ride around New England, typically in NH or VT. I'm based in RI, btw.

I like the idea of going for longer periods, as well as further away. I'd also like to get off the beaten path and do some not so extreme offroading. The Volvo fits all my gear for a 3 day weekend, but it certainly won't handle much more than dirt roads.

I like the XC as a DD, but want a larger truck or SUV as a camp rig. I'd like to be able to carry my gear on or in it, as well as at least 2 bikes on a hitch rack. Being able to fit the bikes IN the vehicle would be good too, for security. I'd also like to be able to set it up to sleep comfortably IN it, I've rolled up to campsites too many times in the rain, with the Volvo stuffed with gear and no room to sleep.

I kind of have this idea that I'd like to drive out to Moab next year to wheel and ride, so it'd be cool to have a rig for that.

Vehicles I'm kicking around right now:

Chevy Tahoe/Suburban Z71. I have no prob with the GMC versions either, but I want a Z71 as those came with the 3.73 gears and G80 rear diff. Shorter length of the Tahoe would be more maneuverable, but not sure it's worth the space sacrifice over the Burban. Pros are V8 power (I LOVE the LS engines), reliability, space. Cons are exterior size, potentially a gas hog. Prob not too bad on the highway though.

3rd gen 4Runner. I've narrowed it down to a 99-00 with the factory locking rear diff. Pros are the locker and the 4.30 gears that come with it, along with the ability to fit 265/75/16's on stock suspension. Would be plenty capable out of the box with just good tires. Cons are smaller size and relatively underpowered 3.4L V6.

Grand Cherokee WJ. About the same size as the T4R, but with V8 power. Solid front and rear axles with f/r ltd slips on the Limited and Overland models would be great offroad. 3.73 gears and V8 power wouldn't have trouble with larger tires. Cons are need about 3" of lift to fit 265/75's, and potential reliability issues. Cheaper to purchase than T4R though, so there will be money left in budget for mods.

100 Series LC (or Lexus equivalent) Looks like good interior room, Toyota reliability, V8 power. Cons - not that powerful of a V8, more $$ to buy, more expensive to mod.

Lexus GX460, or is it 470? (mid '00s) Pretty much the same pros/cons as the LC. Not sure the side opening tailgate would play well with a bike rack either.


I should add that I'm trying to spend less than 5k all in. Hoping to spend like 3,500 to 4k on vehicle, and another grand on a decent set of tires and maint (plugs, all fluids, etc). I do all that stuff myself. That budget prob rules out the 100series and the Lex. I COULD extend the budget, but I'm trying to stick to something fairly low buck. If I was looking for something I'd DD I'd spend more. This will prob only get about 5k miles a year. All of the vehicles I've listed I figure will have 150-200k miles in my price range, and I'm comfortable with that on all of them, with the Jeep being the wild card.


Sorry this was so long, sometimes I use these posts to think out loud.

I'd appreciate any input, or any other suggestions.

 

[Steve]

I typically tent camp for long weekends out of my '07 VolvoXC70, I bring my mountainbike and camp where I ride around New England, typically in NH or VT. I'm based in RI, btw.

I like the idea of going for longer periods, as well as further away. I'd also like to get off the beaten path and do some not so extreme offroading. The Volvo fits all my gear for a 3 day weekend, but it certainly won't handle much more than dirt roads.

Paging @Young Satchel for what you can do with a Swedish Brick ;)

https://overlandbound.com/forums/threads/the-adventure-wagon-a-2004-volvo-xc70-overland-build.1845

First, I don't see being able to find *any* of those vehicles for under $5000, let alone adding the tires and adding that you would want.

I came from a similar sized wagon, a 2008 Outback to my current 2016 4Runner. Mine has significantly more interior room than the 3rd ben you are considering, and I have *less* usable cargo capacity than the Outback. It is tough to beat a wagon for useable storage. For comparison, I sold it last year at 9 years old for $14,500. Finding a capable vehicle for $10 less than that seems like quite a challenge.

My 2 cents: Keep what you have, with maybe the addition of good tires and a roof storage system, and get out and go! Find what the actual shortcomings are, and then decide how to address them. My Outback had AT tires, a slight lift, and skid plate. It would go 98% of the places I wanted to go.

 

[Young Satchel]

I have an XC now but you may be interested to know that prior to that I had a first gen 4Runner with a 2” Lift etc etc. The XC has seen more Trail time than that ever did and has proved itself a remarkably competent vehicle on and off-road.

That being said, I’d be the first to tell you there are way better dedicated off-road choices. BUT, not in your budget. 5K all-in is gonna be really tough.

Given your use case, it sounds to me like you might be better off investing about half that in the XC70. Tires, illumination, roof storage/racks OR RTT, hitch spare Carrier, 2” Lift, some light undercarriage protection, an awning, and you’ll have yourself a really nice setup!


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[feetforbrains]

+1 for boxy-but-good. I've gone on serious pilgimrages with only 2wd. A RTT on that and a good bike rack hanging off the rear bumper would be Moab worthy ... unless the 4x4 experience is actually what you're after. If that's the case spend money, much more money, because one thing you don't want to discovery is how reliable a $3500 truck is somewhere below Dead Horse Point.

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[Joey83]

Having owned 3 wagons myself (all german ones) I say go for the wagon goodness, maybe with a few good upgrades.

Might go back to another wagon ones my current vehicle dies.

 

[Road]

You might be surprised, @StuntmanMike at what you can get for $4,000.

I bought a '98 Chevy Express van once, with extended body, long wheelbase, 6.5 diesel and a mess of miles for only $2700 and drove the hell out of it all over America, from coast to coast and north to south for several years. Had over 500,000 miles on it when I sold it. Wasn't the prettiest thing ever (had the faded name of a delivery service on the sides still for years, and a couple dents that had been made from the inside out), but it ran like a champ and provided a ton of cover and storage possibilities. Vancamped in it, stealth-camped in the city, lived out of it for literally months at a time while working and traveling around the country.

Looked almost exactly like the one I have now, which is an '08 GMC Savana. Here's a long post I made about my current van--showing a few images of possible set ups--for another forum user wondering about vehicles for long distance travel.

So, I bet you could find a decent enough Chevy Tahoe or Suburban, especially in these days of being able to search craigslist nationwide or using other online resources like eBay (where I found my current van). Good thing about Chevy/GMC is parts availability and that most shade-tree and small town mechanics can work on what you might not be able to.

Bought my current one over six years ago from a guy who bought several from Penske Leasing, where it had been leased to Netflix or Redbox in the south. Very light use hauling DVDs, had had only one driver and was only a few years old. Penske is legendary in their maintenance of their fleet.

There are good deals out there.

EDIT: That said, instead of going for a newer 4x4 vehicle now, I'm investing more in what I have to make it more capable for getting further off-road into the willow-wacks of North America. Good advice from the other posters in this thread. Volvo wagons are pretty cool. I had one of those once, too, though of much older vintage.

 

[StuntmanMike]

I have an XC now but you may be interested to know that prior to that I had a first gen 4Runner with a 2” Lift etc etc. The XC has seen more Trail time than that ever did and has proved itself a remarkably competent vehicle on and off-road.

That being said, I’d be the first to tell you there are way better dedicated off-road choices. BUT, not in your budget. 5K all-in is gonna be really tough.

Given your use case, it sounds to me like you might be better off investing about half that in the XC70. Tires, illumination, roof storage/racks OR RTT, hitch spare Carrier, 2” Lift, some light undercarriage protection, an awning, and you’ll have yourself a really nice setup!


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I really like the XC, but it's my DD that does 350-400 miles a week just back and forth to work and around town. It's already passed the 200k mile mark, so I don't want to do anything that will reduce it's life or mpg. I know as soon as I lift it, I'm going to have to replace the CV's, and larger tires will give my mileage a hit, as will as anything on the roof. Right now I just run the hitch mount bike rack, and that doesn't seem to effect mileage in any noticeable way. Also, I know the car is probably more off-road capable them I give it credit for, but I don't really want to test that on any regular basis, as with no low range gearing I don't want to stress the transmission too much. I feel like I've been very fortunate with this car in that it's needed minimal repairs since I bought it with 90k miles. Other than a broken rear coil and a leaking coolant line, there's been no surprises with this car. Just the typical European car maintenance - new steering and suspension components, as well as brakes and fluid changes.

I hesitate to spend a few grand on it to possibly shorten it's lifespan, which would then necessitate me buying ANOTHER car to replace it.

I DO want to add some lighting and make an awning, if I don't get a rig by spring I WILL be using this.

 

[Young Satchel]

I really like the XC, but it's my DD that does 350-400 miles a week just back and forth to work and around town. It's already passed the 200k mile mark, so I don't want to do anything that will reduce it's life or mpg. I know as soon as I lift it, I'm going to have to replace the CV's, and larger tires will give my mileage a hit, as will as anything on the roof. Right now I just run the hitch mount bike rack, and that doesn't seem to effect mileage in any noticeable way. Also, I know the car is probably more off-road capable them I give it credit for, but I don't really want to test that on any regular basis, as with no low range gearing I don't want to stress the transmission too much. I feel like I've been very fortunate with this car in that it's needed minimal repairs since I bought it with 90k miles. Other than a broken rear coil and a leaking coolant line, there's been no surprises with this car. Just the typical European car maintenance - new steering and suspension components, as well as brakes and fluid changes.

I hesitate to spend a few grand on it to possibly shorten it's lifespan, which would then necessitate me buying ANOTHER car to replace it.

I DO want to add some lighting and make an awning, if I don't get a rig by spring I WILL be using this.

Understood. All perfectly valid points.

Good luck with your hunt for a dedicated trail-rig!


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[Smileyshaun]

One question that will affect your budget. Will you be doing the maintenance/upgrade work yourself or paying someone else ?

If your looking for more room might as well go to the top and get a suburban, if your not planning on rock crawling and super tight trails and more focused on just getting out further with a Lot of gear then get all the space you can . Go for a 3/4 you can usually find some lower miles ones owned by older people that mostly used them for trailer hauling. You get a bullet proof rear end , much stronger front diff and a super strong trans, if you find one with a 6.0 you should be getting around 15-17 mpg on the freeway .
If it's just a weekend warrior rig don't be so worried about mpg if you do the math the cost is actually minimal plus a smaller rig with bigger tires and loaded down will get horrible mileage anyways .

 

[Keboh]

The WJ is a risky bet. They're plagued with some issues that are a REAL pain in the ass to fix.. Lots of electronic issues (blend doors, grounding issues, etc). They commonly break studs on the headers and you have to pull the engine or pull the heads (whichever evil you determine is lesser) to fix it. I went back to a Cherokee and I'm infinitely happier. I hate constantly worrying about something breaking in the back of my head all the time.

You do want the v8 though over the 4.0... the 4.0 just isn't strong enough to push it around. The v8 gets better mileage and if you're planning on running bigger tires or lift, you definitely will want the extra displacement.

If a Cherokee is too small for your purposes (sounds like it would be) and something you won't consider, I'd be looking for the runner as my choice out of that bunch.

 

[[DO]Ron]

*Fanboy comment* Just go with anything Toyota! 100 series are roomier then a 4runner, but both should do :P

Maybe I've looked over it, but do you tow? why you need a big engine? It uses more fuel often then not :). And if you want to fit your bikes inside the vehicle I would go with a little more room rather then a smaller vehicle.

 

[Junktj]

Having owned previously a 3rd gen 4runner and a wj, which were both equipped with a small lift and bumpers, and I currently own a 100 series cruiser.
I would say you can't go wrong with either Toyota I have owned. Both great trucks. If you would ever want to do more serious off roading I would suggest the wj, or even better an 80 series cruiser. I had a 80 series years ago that I drove from N.C. to Moab, wheeled some moderate trails and drove home again. Over 6000 miles in 10 days, and it had 280k on the clock when I got home.

 

[Sev]

Love my wk2 but the fuel economy is absolute garbage with the Hemi. Seriously considering a 100 gal tank. With the lift, tires, roof rack and gear... forget it.

Go with an old and reliable toyota.

 

[James Deaton]

You might consider a Ford Expedition. Less than $6500 in ours so far and it has been proving itself very trailworthy. Check it out:

https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/2003-ford-expedition-full-size-overland-build.11553/

James

 

[Bill Guerre]

You could also look at the Jeep XJ. for your budget you could find a very nice 97+ model. They are reliable, easy to work on, huge aftermarket scene for it and parts a available anywhere. I feel like it checks the box for almost every situation. I have a 90 Jeep Comanche truck that had 90K on it when I purchased it and I got it for 900$. I have a 3.5 inch lift, 33s, all new steering, Ford 8.8 rear end and its very reliable. I may have 3500$ total in the build. I would take an MJ or an XJ over a WJ any day.

 

[StuntmanMike]

One question that will affect your budget. Will you be doing the maintenance/upgrade work yourself or paying someone else ?

If your looking for more room might as well go to the top and get a suburban, if your not planning on rock crawling and super tight trails and more focused on just getting out further with a Lot of gear then get all the space you can . Go for a 3/4 you can usually find some lower miles ones owned by older people that mostly used them for trailer hauling. You get a bullet proof rear end , much stronger front diff and a super strong trans, if you find one with a 6.0 you should be getting around 15-17 mpg on the freeway .
If it's just a weekend warrior rig don't be so worried about mpg if you do the math the cost is actually minimal plus a smaller rig with bigger tires and loaded down will get horrible mileage anyways .

Yeah I definitely do all my own maint and upgrades. I only farm stuff out if I'm feeling particularly lazy of it's winter. This is why I want something relatively simple and reliable, I don't want to have to wrench on it too often, and when I do I don't want it to be super complicated.

I saw a lifted '04-ish Burb the other day, and was like I gotta get one of those! And good point about the mileage, my lifted 4.0 ZJ on 31's only got about 16.5, 17 on the highway. It wasn't even armored up or anything, but those bigger tires just killed the mileage. Even with like a new 4Runner, they're only rated at 20mpg hwy, less than a Tahoe or Burban.

 

[StuntmanMike]

The WJ is a risky bet. They're plagued with some issues that are a REAL pain in the ass to fix.. Lots of electronic issues (blend doors, grounding issues, etc). They commonly break studs on the headers and you have to pull the engine or pull the heads (whichever evil you determine is lesser) to fix it. I went back to a Cherokee and I'm infinitely happier. I hate constantly worrying about something breaking in the back of my head all the time.

You do want the v8 though over the 4.0... the 4.0 just isn't strong enough to push it around. The v8 gets better mileage and if you're planning on running bigger tires or lift, you definitely will want the extra displacement.

If a Cherokee is too small for your purposes (sounds like it would be) and something you won't consider, I'd be looking for the runner as my choice out of that bunch.

Yeah, it's all the things that you mentioned that make me hesitate on the WJ. I would def get the V8 in one though, no question. I had a 4.slow in my ZJ and it was one thing I always regretted...not buying the 5.2L Orvis sitting right next to it on the dealer's lot.

I like the XJ's for a wheeling rig, but I just feel like they're tiny. I would wager that my XC70 has quite a bit more interior space than an XJ. Plus it's the same as with the ZJ... going to have the 4.0. Reliable yes, but slow and thirsty. I don't want to get into regearing, and IIRC XJ's come with 3.55's, which would suck with anything over a 30" tire. That's one of the reasons I like the similar year 4Runners...the factory locked ones come with 4.30 gearing, and the 3.4 makes about the same power as the 4L. (which is kind of a con, haha)

 

[StuntmanMike]

You could also look at the Jeep XJ. for your budget you could find a very nice 97+ model. They are reliable, easy to work on, huge aftermarket scene for it and parts a available anywhere. I feel like it checks the box for almost every situation. I have a 90 Jeep Comanche truck that had 90K on it when I purchased it and I got it for 900$. I have a 3.5 inch lift, 33s, all new steering, Ford 8.8 rear end and its very reliable. I may have 3500$ total in the build. I would take an MJ or an XJ over a WJ any day.

You're very correct on all points. I really like XJ's actually, I just feel like it would probably be a little smaller than I'd like. They just look so tiny. Also, while there's always plenty of them on CL, finding one that isn't super modded, clapped out, or a rot box would be a challenge. Though, I guess that's true of all the vehicles I listed. New England is not gentle on cars.

 

[StuntmanMike]

You might consider a Ford Expedition. Less than $6500 in ours so far and it has been proving itself very trailworthy. Check it out:

https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/2003-ford-expedition-full-size-overland-build.11553/

James

Cool man, I just checked out your build.

I hadn't thought of one of these before, but looks like a solid option, though I'm not really a Ford guy, haha.

 

[StuntmanMike]

Having owned previously a 3rd gen 4runner and a wj, which were both equipped with a small lift and bumpers, and I currently own a 100 series cruiser.
I would say you can't go wrong with either Toyota I have owned. Both great trucks. If you would ever want to do more serious off roading I would suggest the wj, or even better an 80 series cruiser. I had a 80 series years ago that I drove from N.C. to Moab, wheeled some moderate trails and drove home again. Over 6000 miles in 10 days, and it had 280k on the clock when I got home.

Yeah, the 80 series are very cool, I like them a lot. I've looked on CL, and they seem to be either clapped out or realllly nice and stupid money. I feel like a 3rd gen 4R would be a good compromise, as far as most of the reliability and capability for much less $$, generally speaking.