Help me choose a rig!

[StuntmanMike]

*Fanboy comment* Just go with anything Toyota! 100 series are roomier then a 4runner, but both should do :P

Maybe I've looked over it, but do you tow? why you need a big engine? It uses more fuel often then not :). And if you want to fit your bikes inside the vehicle I would go with a little more room rather then a smaller vehicle.

No, I don't currently tow. Not to say I never would, but as of now I don't have anything that I need to tow.
I just like having a vehicle with power. The smaller engine getting better mpg isn't always true. My 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee got about the same as my buddy's V8 powered one. We had the same lift, gearing, and tires, but his engine had an easier job moving the vehicle around, as opposed to me having to flog it every time I had to get to highway speed.

Also, my Volvo has a 2.5L 5cyl, and my Firebird has a 5.7L V8. Guess which gets better mileage? The Firebird, believe it or not, even though the engine is over 2x the size o the Volvo's. If I drive it normally, it accelerates effortlessly and rarely gets over 2k rpm.

The 100 series looks like a nice sized vehicle, but I don't think I'll find a decent one in my budget. I've seen a few, but all either have a bunch of mechanical issues, or corrosion issues.

 

[StuntmanMike]

+1 for boxy-but-good. I've gone on serious pilgimrages with only 2wd. A RTT on that and a good bike rack hanging off the rear bumper would be Moab worthy ... unless the 4x4 experience is actually what you're after. If that's the case spend money, much more money, because one thing you don't want to discovery is how reliable a $3500 truck is somewhere below Dead Horse Point.

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I rode Dead Horse Point last spring! Great trail. It was fun, but much easier than Ahab or Mag 7. It was our "relaxing" day.

I agree, the more I think about it, the more I realize my current car meets most of my needs, with the exception of being trail worthy. I want something I can take on something like Fins n' Things, I thought that was a lot of fun in a Rubicon. I don't know if any of the fullsizes could handle that, but I bet the 4Runner could with good tires.

I suppose I could just rent a Jeep for the few trail days. If I was out there, it would be mainly to mountainbike anyway.

 

[StuntmanMike]

Paging @Young Satchel for what you can do with a Swedish Brick ;)

https://overlandbound.com/forums/threads/the-adventure-wagon-a-2004-volvo-xc70-overland-build.1845

First, I don't see being able to find *any* of those vehicles for under $5000, let alone adding the tires and adding that you would want.

I came from a similar sized wagon, a 2008 Outback to my current 2016 4Runner. Mine has significantly more interior room than the 3rd ben you are considering, and I have *less* usable cargo capacity than the Outback. It is tough to beat a wagon for useable storage. For comparison, I sold it last year at 9 years old for $14,500. Finding a capable vehicle for $10 less than that seems like quite a challenge.

My 2 cents: Keep what you have, with maybe the addition of good tires and a roof storage system, and get out and go! Find what the actual shortcomings are, and then decide how to address them. My Outback had AT tires, a slight lift, and skid plate. It would go 98% of the places I wanted to go.

I like the wagon, for the mountainbike stuff it's great. I was just looking at it and Satchel's build thread again, and I have some ideas. I just don't to go nuts with it as it's already past the 200k mile mark. looks like Satchel has had some issues with his that mine hasn't had, and his has quite a bit less miles. I'm not sure these cars like the mods and that kind of use, long term.

I actually have seen most of these vehicles for under 5k in my area, with the exception of the Lexus. The 80's and 100 series in the sub-5k range look pretty clapped out though. I see a lot of WJ's it the 3-4k range, as well as 4Runners. I even saw an '04 Z71 Tahoe with 160K miles that caught my eye for $3700. Of course, these are New England cars, so who knows exactly what kind of condition they're in until I go look at them.

I just remember when I was a kid I bought my ZJ at 3 years old for almost 20k, then proceeded to pretty much ruin it with lifts and offroading. I realized then I'd be much better buying a beater for that stuff. With the right vehicle, old or high miles doesn't necessarily = unreliable.

Oh, and that's some damn good resale on your Subie! I bought my Volvo at 5 years old for less than that, haha. That thing had like 30k depreciation in it's first 5 years.

The 5th gen 4R was originally on my list, btw. I kind of came to my senses and decided I didn't need to spend that much on a vehicle. Buying something like that would mean it would be my DD, and I'd rack up miles really quickly on it, and be afraid to take it offroad or use it as intended. Same reason I decided against a new JKU.

 

[AZBubs]

So a 99-00 4Runner? If you look hard you can find them within reason still. It seems over the last 2 years the price has gone up on them. They are very capable off-road. The 99 had the highest factory springs.

With all that said be prepared to dump money into it in parts. Emissions typically fail on 3rd gens so you’d have to consider CAT replacement and an overhaul on the evap system. Lower ball joints are the achilles heel of the 3rd gen so they take extra attention.



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[MOAK]

I'm partial to Landcruisers, solid axles. 60, 70, 80 series. The 80 series has proven to be the most comfortable and the most dependable of any Landcruiser available here in the states. I'm buttoning up some oil leaks now, but would not hestitate to take another 10,000 mile tour afterwards. (BTW, 286000 miles) You can certainly find American made vehicles as well, but if you are looking for longevity, dependability and lower maintenance costs stick with a "truck" platform, body on frame, with solid steer axle and full floating rears with at least a semi floating steering axle. IFS is always a ball joint away from a crappy week spent being towed and at the mercy of local parts houses, fixing it yourself, or worse yet a dealership working on it.

 

[James Deaton]

I understand not being a Ford guy... you may also consider a Tahoe if you are a Government Motors type of guy :)

The Tahoes have much better departure angles than the Suburban, and would maneuver much better in the tight stuff.

James

 

[Smileyshaun]

decide on what you want , fly out to the west coast where vehicles aren't rusting away , have a epic road trip taking your rig home

 

[StuntmanMike]

decide on what you want , fly out to the west coast where vehicles aren't rusting away , have a epic road trip taking your rig home

That has actually crossed my mind... I'm going to be in Moab for ten days in about a month, I'm definitely going to keep my eyes open. I also have a friend in San Diego who's been trying to get me to go visit.

 

[MOAK]

That has actually crossed my mind... I'm going to be in Moab for ten days in about a month, I'm definitely going to keep my eyes open. I also have a friend in San Diego who's been trying to get me to go visit.

the same can be said for anywhere down south. I picked mine up in Atlanta way back when,, no rust.

 

[bajatacoguy]

First Off fellow Rhodey here transplanted in NH

1st Vote: Tacoma
2nd Vote: 4Runner
3rd Vote Tacoma
4th Vote 4Runner

Good Luck

 

[StuntmanMike]

First Off fellow Rhodey here transplanted in NH

1st Vote: Tacoma
2nd Vote: 4Runner
3rd Vote Tacoma
4th Vote 4Runner

Good Luck

Hahaha, hmmmm...I think you may be a Toyota fan?

I almost bought 3rd gen 4Runner yesterday. Was all set to head down to NJ to look at one with the intention of buying ('99 LTD, Jade Mica green, 176k, impeccable Carfax, rear locker). Looked pretty clean, even the drivers seat looked nice. Only thing that stood out was the last two entries on the Carfax... a service at a Toyota dealer, and 3 days later it was noted it was offered for sale. Before heading down I decided to give them a call. Turns out it was in to diagnose a driveline clunk, and they also found a leaking steering rack, as well as a rotted rear suspension arm and frame. No repairs performed. Good thing I called, saved myself a drive to Jersey.

These freaking 3rd gens are all rot boxes, I'm getting ready to give up on them all together. This dealer even had some underbody shots and it looked really clean. Of COURSE they rot in a spot not readily apparent.

This same thing worries me about the Tacomas too. I drove a first gen as a Turo rental in Moab last year and really liked it. Great for throwing the bikes in the bed on the way to the trail. I was seriously considering buying a new one last year (I REALLY like the look, and the TRD OR pkg), till I drove one. I don't care how much HP the 3.5 has, it felt gutless. Decided it would annoy the crap out of me as a DD. Talked to a few other owners I met locally and they all noted it felt sluggish, and that I should go with the manual if I could.
Plus, rear drums on a new for 2016 vehicle??? F that. Even the Frontier, which is old as dirt, has rear disks.

/rant off/

I don't know, starting to lean toward a WJ as an SUV of this size, or if I go larger, a Tahoe/Yukon. I have no doubts about the reliability of the GM engines, and I have a coworker who has a beat to snot '02 Sierra with 250k+ on it that refuses to die. He's had to do wheel bearings and a water pump and things like that, but the motor/tranny just keeps chugging along. It's demise will be the toll all the New England winters and salt water boat ramps have taken on the body (he tows a boat to do salt water fishing, and it's also seen a lot of work around the fishing boat piers as he used to be a commercial fisherman).

I'm also starting to think that if I take offroading out of the equation, I might be able to follow YoungSatchels lead and just outfit my Volvo. I was looking around the inside of it last night, and I remembered that the front passenger seatback folds flat. I might be able to use that as a basis for making a narrow sleeping platform or just using a cot.

 

[MOAK]

Wow,, 1st and biggest mistake? Even considering a vehicle from New Jersey. Period. Give these guys a call
https://shop.cruiserparts.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
Or here, this is a really good read and can apply to any vehicle.
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm
Don't give up on your quest just cause some guy from NJ tried to screw you. There are all kinds of great rigs out there of all brands, but in the end, even if it is years away, you'll end up with some form of Landcruiser or 4Runner or Suburban,,, body on frame. You will remain frustrated and unhappy until you do. ( LOL )

 

[Keboh]

Yeah, it's all the things that you mentioned that make me hesitate on the WJ. I would def get the V8 in one though, no question. I had a 4.slow in my ZJ and it was one thing I always regretted...not buying the 5.2L Orvis sitting right next to it on the dealer's lot.

I like the XJ's for a wheeling rig, but I just feel like they're tiny. I would wager that my XC70 has quite a bit more interior space than an XJ. Plus it's the same as with the ZJ... going to have the 4.0. Reliable yes, but slow and thirsty. I don't want to get into regearing, and IIRC XJ's come with 3.55's, which would suck with anything over a 30" tire. That's one of the reasons I like the similar year 4Runners...the factory locked ones come with 4.30 gearing, and the 3.4 makes about the same power as the 4L. (which is kind of a con, haha)

The XJ has a smaller footprint than a new Camry... LOL!

Interior space is very well utilized in them, IMO. but depending on your needs, that still definitely may not be enough. The 4.0 works very well in them. They have plenty of torque for how light the Cherokee is. Honestly, I think it's a very good match. You are right though... once you go above 31" tires, you need to gear. I think 31's are fine on the road with stock gears, but you definitely can feel the extra drain on the powertrain... and it does make them thirstier!

All things considered, you can probably build an XJ up (lift, tires, misc. maint., gears/locker) for cheaper than a 4runner + tires, going for similar condition vehicles. At least from the prices around where I live...

But at the end of the day, the Runner is simply a nicer car to be in. It's slightly bigger and factory parts are usually better than aftermarket for drivability.

 

[AZBubs]

Aren’t XJ straight 6 engines notorious for warping and causing head gasket failure?

When I was looking for a 4x4 I had found an XJ that was lightly used government vehicle for forest service. When I told my mechanic about it he told me he wouldn’t work on it. He told me to look at 4runners or landcruisers and he is a Ford guy.


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[Junktj]

Aren’t XJ straight 6 engines notorious for warping and causing head gasket failure?

When I was looking for a 4x4 I had found an XJ that was lightly used government vehicle for forest service. When I told my mechanic about it he told me he wouldn’t work on it. He told me to look at 4runners or landcruisers and he is a Ford guy.


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If I remember correctly that was only a few of the latter years (99-00)? that had the heat soak, head problem.
But yeah, I would also stick to a Toyota. And I currently own a TJ.....

 

[Bill Guerre]

Aren’t XJ straight 6 engines notorious for warping and causing head gasket failure?

When I was looking for a 4x4 I had found an XJ that was lightly used government vehicle for forest service. When I told my mechanic about it he told me he wouldn’t work on it. He told me to look at 4runners or landcruisers and he is a Ford guy.


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That would be the 2000-2001 and I have never heard of them warping. I have heard of the manifold cracking. I would trust an XJ though. I know many many people who drive them 250,000 miles+ no problem. The trans is supe reliable if you stay with the AW4 transmission. Not saying the Toyota isn’t reliable or even a little more reliable possibly. However bang for buck, the XJ is super hard to beat.

 

[StuntmanMike]

The XJ has a smaller footprint than a new Camry... LOL!

Interior space is very well utilized in them, IMO. but depending on your needs, that still definitely may not be enough. The 4.0 works very well in them. They have plenty of torque for how light the Cherokee is. Honestly, I think it's a very good match. You are right though... once you go above 31" tires, you need to gear. I think 31's are fine on the road with stock gears, but you definitely can feel the extra drain on the powertrain... and it does make them thirstier!

All things considered, you can probably build an XJ up (lift, tires, misc. maint., gears/locker) for cheaper than a 4runner + tires, going for similar condition vehicles. At least from the prices around where I live...

But at the end of the day, the Runner is simply a nicer car to be in. It's slightly bigger and factory parts are usually better than aftermarket for drivability.

XJ's are abundant in my area, but it's finding a good one - that's the challenge. They get hit hard by the winters here, or people treat them as "disposable" and they're clapped out or beat to hell.

I was leaning toward the 4Runner because I thought that it would be more reliable for things like electrics and other minor things. The 3.4 in them is supposed to be super reliable, but IMO it loses out to the 4.0 in that it needs a timing belt every 90k. I hate timing belts. And I know the SFA in the XJ would be better for rockcrawling, but I actually prefer to get an IFS vehicle at this point due the amount of on road driving I'll be doing, plus the IFs will be better for higher speed dirt road stuff.

I don't know though, at this point I'm starting to lean towards a Tahoe. The 5.3L will last forever, and if I get one without too many options it should be reliable enough. Plenty of space in one of those V8 power, and the mileage probably won't be much different than a modded smaller vehicle with a 6. My 4.0 ZJ got like 16 combined.

 

[Smileyshaun]

man I just saw a 03 tahoe with only 115k on the clock on cl the other day .

 

[AZBubs]

I was leaning toward the 4Runner because I thought that it would be more reliable for things like electrics and other minor things. The 3.4 in them is supposed to be super reliable, but IMO it loses out to the 4.0 in that it needs a timing belt every 90k. I hate timing belts. And I know the SFA in the XJ would be better for rockcrawling, but I actually prefer to get an IFS vehicle at this point due the amount of on road driving I'll be doing, plus the IFs will be better for higher speed dirt road stuff.

The 3.4 is a tough motor, lacking in the overall power department it makes up for in reliability. There are folks well over 500k on theirs and still going strong. I have 310k and im getting a 22.4 average mpg. and PS the timing belt ting every 90k is a best practice but not exactly necessary.

But it seems you got your mind made up and afterall its what YOU want. Find a good one and dont be afraid to get dirty checking them out. One other thing to consider is also aftermarket support. I dont think youll have a problem with a Tahoe. CBP around here have a lot of them set up for high speed desert.

 

[StuntmanMike]

man I just saw a 03 tahoe with only 115k on the clock on cl the other day .

That's funny, I actually saw one about the same on MA CL today, for $4,500. It looked rode hard and put away wet though. I'm not so concerned with mileage as I am general condition.