Has overlanding become elitist ?

[Autism Family Travels]

Ugh - every time I see this thread pop up again, I get a stomach ache. Nothing good ever comes from trying to define overlanding. That's why our founding principles say, 'overlanding is vehicle dependent travel" that's it. We created this community partly because of the great lengths other communities go through to define overlanding as something that is fairly unattainable to most. This community has grown over the years, and that's a good thing, but not everyone will have the same definitions. That's OK, as long as they don't try to shove their definition down your throat - who cares? Many people will say you don't overland unless you run 40s or above. Um, OK. Probably not accurate for most.

Ironically this thread is called "Has overlanding become elitist" when in actuality, I found it to be very elitist in 2010, and created this community to have a place where people are not judged and we help each other. I'd say Overland Bound is one of the most open overland communities there is. I've seen so many awesome random acts of support and kindness it warms the heart.

We strive to be open minded and encourage our community to do the same. What we stand for: Core Principles - Overland Bound

M

Same reason I found this place. Other places were getting wacky in their views. This place is run whatcha brung, go where ever you want, and tell us about it!

 

[bgenlvtex]

Ugh - every time I see this thread pop up again, I get a stomach ache. Nothing good ever comes from trying to define overlanding. That's why our founding principles say, 'overlanding is vehicle dependent travel" that's it. We created this community partly because of the great lengths other communities go through to define overlanding as something that is fairly unattainable to most. This community has grown over the years, and that's a good thing, but not everyone will have the same definitions. That's OK, as long as they don't try to shove their definition down your throat - who cares? Many people will say you don't overland unless you run 40s or above. Um, OK. Probably not accurate for most.

Ironically this thread is called "Has overlanding become elitist" when in actuality, I found it to be very elitist in 2010, and created this community to have a place where people are not judged and we help each other. I'd say Overland Bound is one of the most open overland communities there is. I've seen so many awesome random acts of support and kindness it warms the heart.

We strive to be open minded and encourage our community to do the same. What we stand for: Core Principles - Overland Bound

M

That initial exposure the Journal bunch is what led me here, and I truly enjoy the site and the majority of the community.

Thanks for what you do, and for what you have done.

 

[Old Tanker]

The definition of elitist is the exclusion of others for not meeting a set criteria. I just discovered the overland journal podcast the other day. Same exact topic was being discussed. 1 of the 2 guys on there proceeds to say “ you’re not an overlander unless you’ve been international for a certain amount of time.” I will not be listening to them again. But yet overlanding isn’t elitist. I just read the exact same thing here too. “Gotta travel international for 3 months minimum.” Glad I haven’t spent money on that vehicle decal yet. Especially since I just found out I will never be considered an overlander. In just the last week I’ve heard/read twice that 95% of us will never be overlanding. Again this isn’t an elitist hobby.

I heard that same podcast, and had a similar reaction. That's the Overland Journal, though - I don't think we'll ever see an article in their magazine covering NC105 and Hurricane Creek. Outer Mongolia, sure. North Carolina, never. I read the magazine as vehicle-based National Geographic.

Michael has built something quite different here. Vehicle-based adventure travel. That isn't elitist. Smash that decal on your car and help define Overlanding as what you do.

 

[slightNine]

Turning point for my family on this subject happened this past fall. We had our fancy off-road trailer set-up to camp the night on Cedro peak in Nm. We had climbed ledges on a washed out trail to get to the spot we were camping for the night.

It was a fun pull up the mountain.

I was feeling smug about what our rig had done. Just then a Kia Optima pulls in to a spot across the trail and starts setting up camp.

What a refreshing reality check. Lol

 

[leeloo]

Ugh - every time I see this thread pop up again, I get a stomach ache. Nothing good ever comes from trying to define overlanding. That's why our founding principles say, 'overlanding is vehicle dependent travel" that's it. We created this community partly because of the great lengths other communities go through to define overlanding as something that is fairly unattainable to most. This community has grown over the years, and that's a good thing, but not everyone will have the same definitions. That's OK, as long as they don't try to shove their definition down your throat - who cares? Many people will say you don't overland unless you run 40s or above. Um, OK. Probably not accurate for most.

Ironically this thread is called "Has overlanding become elitist" when in actuality, I found it to be very elitist in 2010, and created this community to have a place where people are not judged and we help each other. I'd say Overland Bound is one of the most open overland communities there is. I've seen so many awesome random acts of support and kindness it warms the heart.

We strive to be open minded and encourage our community to do the same. What we stand for: Core Principles - Overland Bound

M

Sorry if i offended anyone. I am old school. It was not my intention. When I first done this with my parents as a 5 year old kid this was called camping trip. Old habits die hard.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Turning point for my family on this subject happened this past fall. We had our fancy off-road trailer set-up to camp the night on Cedro peak in Nm. We had climbed ledges on a washed out trail to get to the spot we were camping for the night.

It was a fun pull up the mountain.

I was feeling smug about what our rig had done. Just then a Kia Optima pulls in to a spot across the trail and starts setting up camp.

What a refreshing reality check. Lol

LOL, the most capable offroad vehicle on the planet is the one you have rented with no preference being given to make or model :)

 

[grubworm]

Old habits die hard.

hopefully, so will this thread...

 

[Boostpowered]

It all depends on your definition of elitist.
Been doing this since it didn't have a name and wasn't popular. When I joined I genuinely thought we'd be talking about how to traverse technical sections on trails, maybe some spotter skills, i expected some talk about camping and kitchens etc. And folks getting together and hitting the trails.

Instead it's mostly about the camping aspect of things which is a very small part of what I consider overlanding. Like an angrier rei forum. And there are the useless check ins

If you wake up to a Kia on the trail camping with you your not on a trail there bud that is what's called a forrest service road, trails normally have deep ruts, mud, rocks and other obstacles.

If your taking a car or crossover or anything not meant for the 4x4 market all your doing is prematurely ruining your vehicle, ie it wasn't made for that. Things are smaller, weaker, and you might as well just get a rental to do it in so you'll be able to go to work on Monday.

Now I'm not gonna be mad if I see you on a trail in a car or crossover it's is your vehicle and your money use it however you want, just don't complain when you blow out your cv joints, suspension, rip off a bumper or fry your transmission.

I know someone's going to want to argue and say they can take their Subaru or whatever wherever I can go, that may be so if you have enough will power and don't give a shit if you break your vehicle and I tow you the rest of the way.

That core principal is what makes folks like myself who pay to play with real 4x4s go elsewhere, if I wanted to be a softroader I would have bought a traverse and joined that Facebook Group. A similarity would be if I took my truck to a monster truck event and expect to be welcomed into the fray and compete against them. That just wouldn't happen.

It ain't about elitism it's about I worked hard and paid alot of money to do what I do and to have someone in a car say they can do the exact same thing is a slap in the face and frankly wrong.

 

[slightNine]

Lol. We learned there was another way up there when we left. Check my profile pic if you need my wheeling credentials.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Sorry if i offended anyone. I am old school. It was not my intention. When I first done this with my parents as a 5 year old kid this was called camping trip. Old habits die hard.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Ugh - every time I see this thread pop up again, I get a stomach ache. Nothing good ever comes from trying to define overlanding. That's why our founding principles say, 'overlanding is vehicle dependent travel" that's it. We created this community partly because of the great lengths other communities go through to define overlanding as something that is fairly unattainable to most. This community has grown over the years, and that's a good thing, but not everyone will have the same definitions. That's OK, as long as they don't try to shove their definition down your throat - who cares? Many people will say you don't overland unless you run 40s or above. Um, OK. Probably not accurate for most.

Ironically this thread is called "Has overlanding become elitist" when in actuality, I found it to be very elitist in 2010, and created this community to have a place where people are not judged and we help each other. I'd say Overland Bound is one of the most open overland communities there is. I've seen so many awesome random acts of support and kindness it warms the heart.

We strive to be open minded and encourage our community to do the same. What we stand for: Core Principles - Overland Bound

M

M, the core values are what brought me here. The principles are sound, fair minded, reasonable and inclusive. I know I dont fit in well with some of the forum threads because of differences of opinion. Others, I fit very nicely and I have found my niches. The people in any group are the assets of that group. The opinions are wide and varied. I enjoy the conversation and ideas brought into play because of the diversity. I hope that I can grow, learn and teach as the years pass !

Thanks for the Organization and founding principles.
Lanlubber

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Sorry if i offended anyone. I am old school. It was not my intention. When I first done this with my parents as a 5 year old kid this was called camping trip. Old habits die hard.

No offense here. My experiences came from the 30's and 40's error when all my travels were related to war time travel in a 1936 4 door Chevrolet, camping by the side of the road. By the 50's-60's we were sophisticated enough to move up in style to a station wagon with a tent, fishing poles and a cooler. No freeways then so every trip was on a back road of some sort. Great memories and adventures.

 

[rgallant]

@Boostpowered I have to disagree with there on the trails, BC is huge place, 944,735 square kilometres (364,764 sq mi) and what you describe covers very little of it. Any reasonable 4 wheel drive with some ground clearance can get down most the FSR's. Case in fact my old R50 Pathfinder.

I can leave home, just out side of Vancouver, be clear of pavement in 20 minutes, touch pavement for less than 2 hours after that and travel to Williams Lake (about 550 KM or 300 miles hiway) without ever touching pavement again. Some of the roads are excellent FSR, some a little dodgey and some very much what you described although they can be bypassed.

During those trips I rarely see other vehicles or people, and they are remote, no cell VHF can iffy in some places sat phones do not work well.

Driving a LR Discovery now lets me go more places than the Pathfinder did which is nice but it only opens maybe another 5% to 10% of the province max.


However I agree more topics on driving including pick lines etc as well guiding vehicles would be nice. But that is on us to do as a community. The image below is pretty typical of a secondary FSR in the interior of BC, they can be rutted or have large cross ditches but they are pretty travelable.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

@Boostpowered I have to disagree with there on the trails, BC is huge place, 944,735 square kilometres (364,764 sq mi) and what you describe covers very little of it. Any reasonable 4 wheel drive with some ground clearance can get down most the FSR's. Case in fact my old R50 Pathfinder.

I can leave home, just out side of Vancouver, be clear of pavement in 20 minutes, touch pavement for less than 2 hours after that and travel to Williams Lake (about 550 KM or 300 miles hiway) without ever touching pavement again. Some of the roads are excellent FSR, some a little dodgey and some very much what you described although they can be bypassed.

During those trips I rarely see other vehicles or people, and they are remote, no cell VHF can iffy in some places sat phones do not work well.

Driving a LR Discovery now lets me go more places than the Pathfinder did which is nice but it only opens maybe another 5% to 10% of the province max.


However I agree more topics on driving including pick lines etc as well guiding vehicles would be nice. But that is on us to do as a community. The image below is pretty typical of a secondary FSR in the interior of BC, they can be rutted or have large cross ditches but they are pretty travelable.

The love smile to your post is because you drive a Discovery now. They are so underrated by a lot of overlanders. I love mine, especially because I have mildly improved on its ability to go places that would normally damage a stock vehicle.

 

[HeliSniper]

The definition of elitist is the exclusion of others for not meeting a set criteria. I just discovered the overland journal podcast the other day. Same exact topic was being discussed. 1 of the 2 guys on there proceeds to say “ you’re not an overlander unless you’ve been international for a certain amount of time.” I will not be listening to them again. But yet overlanding isn’t elitist. I just read the exact same thing here too. “Gotta travel international for 3 months minimum.” Glad I haven’t spent money on that vehicle decal yet. Especially since I just found out I will never be considered an overlander. In just the last week I’ve heard/read twice that 95% of us will never be overlanding. Again this isn’t an elitist hobby.

I believe in this instance the way Elitist was being used is better defined as: "...a person, or group of persons, who believes something about them makes them superior to others, and they feel the need to flaunt their (you name it: vehicle, destinations, years traveled, etc...)"

To me, it's insecure people in a desperate attempt to find security and/or acceptance within a group.

Much like I would ask them (whomever was engaged in the podcast), who cares, and why are you counting (number of years, number of trips, distance of trips, etc) when you're missing the entire point of overland travel/exploration.

Birds of a feather... small minded people will always attract small minded people, or as I always heard, "if you're going to associate with pigs, you're going to get filthy. Difference is, the pig likes it."
So what I try to do is... Steer Clear of the Pigs.... It makes the sunrises and the sunsets so much more enjoyable.

So, If I am lucky enough to meet you on the trail someday, we will smile, share a drink (even if water), swap stories, and refer to ourselves as Overlanders if we so desire. But bottom line, we will be having fun and not at others expense.

 

[BensonSTW]

One of my favorite places has a paved road to the camp ground. Most have maintained gravel roads. I am not even remotely interested in putting my rig in a boulder patch. As a mechanic who has built a few crawlers, I think they are amazing machines. I’ll read about them, discuss the builds, and even pay undivided attention when someone tells me about their trip. Hell I’ve got a locked up cj7 with plent of flex and extremely low gearing. But I’ve also got so much money in it that I don’t want to scrape it in the rocks or continuously work on it after each trip. I’ve done minimalist trips where I load down the side by side with a cooler a tent 2 sleeping bags fishing gear and some gas cans, and go for 3-4 days. But for a car camping vehicle I wanted to be able to handle any situation I was bound to put myself in. I have a 4 wheel drive that has taken me everywhere I want to go and some places I didn’t. It also gets me down the freeway at 80. Gets 20 mpg. Its capable of towing whatever I can imagine hooking up behind it. Sorry if that’s not hard core enough for some. But at least I am out there. I’ve always wanted to take my old 71 bronco across Route 66. Sleeping in campgrounds along the way and try to feel what it might have been like in the 60s and 70s. That’s vehicle dependent travel. And I may never leave pavement. A road trip with a tent and sleeping bag. Just different strokes for different folks. And no one rig will do every type of terrain imaginable. Glamping, car camping, road tripping, rock crawling - it all has the same goal, you have to get there and back. Its bad ass to have a place where all of it can be discussed.

 

[twinight]

It all depends on your definition of elitist.
Been doing this since it didn't have a name and wasn't popular. When I joined I genuinely thought we'd be talking about how to traverse technical sections on trails, maybe some spotter skills, i expected some talk about camping and kitchens etc. And folks getting together and hitting the trails.

Instead it's mostly about the camping aspect of things which is a very small part of what I consider overlanding. Like an angrier rei forum. And there are the useless check ins

If you wake up to a Kia on the trail camping with you your not on a trail there bud that is what's called a forrest service road, trails normally have deep ruts, mud, rocks and other obstacles.

If your taking a car or crossover or anything not meant for the 4x4 market all your doing is prematurely ruining your vehicle, ie it wasn't made for that. Things are smaller, weaker, and you might as well just get a rental to do it in so you'll be able to go to work on Monday.

Now I'm not gonna be mad if I see you on a trail in a car or crossover it's is your vehicle and your money use it however you want, just don't complain when you blow out your cv joints, suspension, rip off a bumper or fry your transmission.

I know someone's going to want to argue and say they can take their Subaru or whatever wherever I can go, that may be so if you have enough will power and don't give a shit if you break your vehicle and I tow you the rest of the way.

That core principal is what makes folks like myself who pay to play with real 4x4s go elsewhere, if I wanted to be a softroader I would have bought a traverse and joined that Facebook Group. A similarity would be if I took my truck to a monster truck event and expect to be welcomed into the fray and compete against them. That just wouldn't happen.

It ain't about elitism it's about I worked hard and paid alot of money to do what I do and to have someone in a car say they can do the exact same thing is a slap in the face and frankly wrong.

Thanks for the lesson and your view of "elitism".
If you don't want to encounter crossovers on the trails, then go where crossovers can't go. It's not like it's a competition, right?
That way you can blow your mechanical parts and feel you worked harder and spent more money doing the same thing, but on even harder trails. That way it'll feel justified.

 

[Billiebob]

Is overlanding elitist......

No

Are there elitists trying to overland....

Definitely

Can you overland and ignore them......

well of course

Overlanding is meeting people, a cultural exchange often, a growth of friendship definitely.
I "camp" and love meeting fellow "campers" who seem like real people getting out in nature and sharing experiences.
Is overlanding becoming elitist..... no, the elites are here short term till they realize "all inclusive" vacations are an easier way to feel "elitist".
If you are a traveler, overlander out to experience culture and country, you are an overlander.
The rest are just spam.

If you think overlanding is diesel engines and 4WD and solar power and air conditioning and satilite navigation and drones and a youtube channel.....

you are not an overlander.

PS, Elitist is not neccessarily about budget or gear, elitist is about attitude.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Is overlanding elitist......

No

Are there elitists trying to overland....

Definitely

Can you overland and ignore them......

well of course

Overlanding is meeting people, a cultural exchange often, a growth of friendship definitely.
I "camp" and love meeting fellow "campers" who seem like real people getting out in nature and sharing experiences.
Is overlanding becoming elitist..... no, the elites are here short term till they realize "all inclusive" vacations are an easier way to feel "elitist".
If you are a traveler, overlander out to experience culture and country, you are an overlander.
The rest are just spam.

If you think overlanding is diesel engines and 4WD and solar power and air conditioning and satilite navigation and drones and a youtube channel.....

you are not an overlander.

PS, Elitist is not neccessarily about budget or gear, elitist is about attitude.

I agree for the most part. Besides the drones, sat nav and YouTube channel. We have all three because we want to tell Colin's story. He's a very amazing kid and we want him to see everything he can whether it be backcountry or downtown. We don't need sat Nav, but it' beats the hell out of getting out a map and compass. It's easy and convenient. Elitist we are NOT however. RUN WHATCHA BRUNG!

 

[leeloo]

One of my favorite places has a paved road to the camp ground. Most have maintained gravel roads. I am not even remotely interested in putting my rig in a boulder patch. As a mechanic who has built a few crawlers, I think they are amazing machines. I’ll read about them, discuss the builds, and even pay undivided attention when someone tells me about their trip. Hell I’ve got a locked up cj7 with plent of flex and extremely low gearing. But I’ve also got so much money in it that I don’t want to scrape it in the rocks or continuously work on it after each trip. I’ve done minimalist trips where I load down the side by side with a cooler a tent 2 sleeping bags fishing gear and some gas cans, and go for 3-4 days. But for a car camping vehicle I wanted to be able to handle any situation I was bound to put myself in. I have a 4 wheel drive that has taken me everywhere I want to go and some places I didn’t. It also gets me down the freeway at 80. Gets 20 mpg. Its capable of towing whatever I can imagine hooking up behind it. Sorry if that’s not hard core enough for some. But at least I am out there. I’ve always wanted to take my old 71 bronco across Route 66. Sleeping in campgrounds along the way and try to feel what it might have been like in the 60s and 70s. That’s vehicle dependent travel. And I may never leave pavement. A road trip with a tent and sleeping bag. Just different strokes for different folks. And no one rig will do every type of terrain imaginable. Glamping, car camping, road tripping, rock crawling - it all has the same goal, you have to get there and back. Its bad ass to have a place where all of it can be discussed.

I get what you mean. One of my best trips was done in a 2009 4k euro Subaru Forester trough the Pyrenees mountains in Spain. About 900 km done on what I would call rough Forest roads. It was great. It was my return to the camping trips since I was a kid. This was 5 -6 years ago I think. In the mean time I changed vehicles, but you can have a lot of fun with almost anything.