Has anyone called out the new Ford Bronco's trail turn assist?

[smritte]

What are "auto turn brakes"? Do you even understand what you're ranting about?

Wow...ok.
So I came up with my own term based on an old school term. Do you actually know what these are or your just basing an opinion on propaganda.

A long time ago people were playing in the sand. Smooth front tires didn't turn well. Add in a dual hydraulic piston and tie it into both sides of the rear brakes. Now if you want to turn sharp you either pull or push a lever locking one side or other of the rear wheels. They called these turn brakes. Later in rock racing, Rally and pro drift they did the same and called them turning brakes.

Modern vehicles can be equipped with something magical called traction control and or ABS brakes. How this works is (very basically), each wheel has a sensor that pulses as the wheel turns. The computer does everything in its power to keep the pulses the same. It does this by, applying brakes, removing throttle, shifting the trans, shifting torque through the transferase, moving power front to back and can move power side to side using clutch's in a diff (torque vectoring).

This system will vary depending on sensors and software. The first manufacture that I know of that used this as an on road/off road feature was Volkswagen with the Touareg and Subaru in rally. Toyota uses a version of this in Crawl Control.

Now that you know how these systems work back to "Auto Turn Brakes" . On the Ford Bronco if your in high or low 4wd with the rear locker engages, push the button. The computer will sense how far the steering is being turned (steering wheel sensor), look at the wheel sensors, unlock the rear axle and lock one side rear brake. Unlocking when it sees the wheel turned back. Now you have "Automatic Turn Brakes" I don't care what you call it, that's what it is.

OH yea, if you ever read one of my posts, I find its fun to rant some, just like yourself, and no I don't mind being called out on something. OH and yes I actually do know what I'm talking about when it comes to most things in this category.

 

[Smileyshaun]

If we’re gonna call out people for stuff let’s call them out for the important issues like calling out bacon manufacturers for that thin sliced garbage, I want my bacon thick like a piece of ham .

 

[Smileyshaun]

So does anybody on this thread actually own a new bronco and have first-hand experience with how the system functions in real life or are we just going off of the Internet videos and press releases?

 

[smritte]

So does anybody on this thread actually own a new bronco and have first-hand experience with how the system functions in real life or are we just going off of the Internet videos and press releases?

Personally, I haven't seen one yet fully loaded. How it works, to me is obvious. I can see it being used more for doing doughnuts in the dirt or turning too sharply in the forest and swiping a tree.

 

[Smileyshaun]

I could see how some might not understand the why for the system if they have never had a rig that’s locked front and rear . When both ends are locked and you turn the wheel you have a tendency to just go straight . It’s not a huge deal once you get use to it but I have to believe a lot of people are going to get the bronco fully kitted out without a lot of trail time with lockers and the quirks they have ( imagine their surprise the first time in snow or ice ) .

 

[smritte]

I believe they would have been better served using a form of torque vectoring. Either shifting power across the diff or applying some brake pressure to increase turning. They already do this with traction control for over/under steer. What their running now is just a piece of software added into an existing system. Because they used it in their videos as a "wow" factor tells me its more of a gimmick/sales feature to them. Sure some hard core guys will appreciate it but I seriously doubt anyone is going to hard core this. Its like buying a new ZR1 Vett for the track features. Most people don't track race their Vett. to them its bragging rites.

 

[tjZ06]

This Is fun watching folks fight about rear steer like it's something new, whether is super hicas on a 300zx or 3000gt, actual rear steer on a rock crawler or monster truck or just your average brake steering that comes on like every tractor ever made. I'm no fan of Ford but good for them for resurrecting a feature that's hasn't been on a road vehicle since the 90s, although come to think of it ford's have always been pretty good at crabwalking down the highway.

So, I think the issue some folks are having is it's not rear-steer like you're familiar with. I had a Galant VR4 with rear-steer. On the Bronco (and new Defender, and Land Cruisers, and prob other vehicles too) what it's doing is braking the inside back wheel to help the vehicle pivot around it. The issue that people have, I imagine, is that this will cause trail damage/erosion as it drags the tire. My point was, I think that's better than people cutting new paths because they can't make tight corners, or pushing wider than the cut trail and widening it over time.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

...or applying some brake pressure to increase turning...

That's exactly what it is.

-TJ

 

[Boostpowered]

So, I think the issue some folks are having is it's not rear-steer like you're familiar with. I had a Galant VR4 with rear-steer. On the Bronco (and new Defender, and Land Cruisers, and prob other vehicles too) what it's doing is braking the inside back wheel to help the vehicle pivot around it. The issue that people have, I imagine, is that this will cause trail damage/erosion as it drags the tire. My point was, I think that's better than people cutting new paths because they can't make tight corners, or pushing wider than the cut trail and widening it over time.

-TJ

It's the exact same thing a tractor does. Left pedal brakes left rear wheel right does the right wheel. It's how you turn when plowing or carrying a heavy implement or when the front wheels are up in the air.
I've never cut a rut turning with it on a tractor in a plowed field so where is all the damage being spoke of? If you didn't know tractor tires, at least the rear are larger than any overland vehicle you can find so if damage will be done it would do it.
And on that note keep in mind farmers are very particular about anything that will compact the soil if it tore up the land or a freshly plowed row we wouldn't use it.

Only damage I really see is that you'll likely have more rear brake pad changes in your future if you actually use the feature often. Otherwise I can see unexperienced owners running their new Bronco into a rock, tree or ravine causing damage to their rig, Higer likelihood of flipping going up inclines if used wrong.

 

[tjZ06]

It's the exact same thing a tractor does. Left pedal brakes left rear wheel right does the right wheel. It's how you turn when plowing or carrying a heavy implement or when the front wheels are up in the air.
I've never cut a rut turning with it on a tractor in a plowed field so where is all the damage being spoke of? If you didn't know tractor tires, at least the rear are larger than any overland vehicle you can find so if damage will be done it would do it.
And on that note keep in mind farmers are very particular about anything that will compact the soil if it tore up the land or a freshly plowed row we wouldn't use it.

Only damage I really see is that you'll likely have more rear brake pad changes in your future if you actually use the feature often. Otherwise I can see unexperienced owners running their new Bronco into a rock, tree or ravine causing damage to their rig, Higer likelihood of flipping going up inclines if used wrong.

Right... so it seems like we agree it'll cause LESS net-damage than MORE. It seems the OP was concerned, and wanted to "call out" Ford because the feature would cause MORE net trail damage.

-TJ

 

[smritte]

That's exactly what it is.

You misunderstood. They apply full pressure, not some. Some, the tire would still turn. As was posted by someone else, its like a skid steer on a tractor. Considering their using the rear two channels on the ABS to control it, all it would take is a small software change. Not difficult at all. I still believe they did this as a "wow" factor, not function. Hell if they changed it a bit they could also increase the speed of the outer tire some. That would improve cornering considerably and its not new technology.

 

[tjZ06]

You misunderstood. They apply full pressure, not some.

That's simply not the case. Ford has plenty of videos on it. It modulates the brake, but at times it will lock up. It's not an all or nothing thing.

-TJ

 

[smritte]

Because I have only seen videos with it locked, I'll concede.
I did however go look into it when I first heard of it. The guys I spoke with are Ford training instructors, who by the way are just down from my classroom. Even though we discussed it at length, we didn't have one to play with. They like myself were confused on why they didn't modulate the brake. That dosent mean Ford doesn't, just what we saw on the material we had at hand. Things tend to change rapidly.
I didn't post based on what I saw on a video, I actually train people to work on these types of things as well as train the guys who teach the techs, but do very little with ford factory training. I'm also sure you have better insight into the factory systems than I.
I'm not sure why you got hurt over my first post but it was never directed at you. If somehow my post about what I believed ford did and should have done somehow offended you, I apologize.

 

[DMS1]

So does anybody on this thread actually own a new bronco and have first-hand experience with how the system functions in real life or are we just going off of the Internet videos and press releases?

I bet 90% of the Broncos will never see a dirt trail, and of the 10% that do, I bet 8% of the Bronco owners wont know how to use the steering brakes properly.

 

[MarioT'sCJResto]

Wow...This thread went way off track.
Ill comment on what the thread is and not what it turned into.
New Bronco with auto turn-brakes.
Honestly, WTF Ford! Do these new vehicles have such a poor turning radius that you think this is necessary or is it just an extra gizmo/addon that will make the vehicle more appealing? I truly believe that the average person buying this either wont use it, wont know what it does (and wont use it) or use it improperly and tear a tire.
If you compare the Bronco to the Rubicon you can see what Ford is up against. Jeep capitalized on the off-road fad with the 2nd gen Rubicon. The first gen got the ball rolling. Ford is coming into to the game on the down slide and the pandemic pushed their production back. I will admit its a nice vehicle with some great features but which person thought auto turn brakes were something good to give the public? As for tearing up our trails with an auto turn brake, I doubt that's something to worry about. The trails will get torn up by the idiots buying vehicles more capable than they are. There was a time when I could sit on a black diamond trail and not have an idiot come through but once in a while. Idiots didn't have lockers. Now there everywhere.

Oh wow, now this wasn't the reply that I was looking for when I called out the Turning Assist for the new Bronco.
I truly don't understand how some people think that they are the sole gatekeepers of what we love most; but for some they think it's okay to support this venue, a venue who benefits from those same "Id..ts" with Membership Dues, and support as well as store purchases.

 

[Tundracamper]

This Is fun watching folks fight about rear steer like it's something new, whether is super hicas on a 300zx or 3000gt, actual rear steer on a rock crawler or monster truck or just your average brake steering that comes on like every tractor ever made. I'm no fan of Ford but good for them for resurrecting a feature that's hasn't been on a road vehicle since the 90s, although come to think of it ford's have always been pretty good at crabwalking down the highway.

‘This will go the way of Crawl Control, A-Trac, and other technologies like this. The masses just don’t understand the technology and as a result most will never use it even though they paid thru the nose to get it. People think they don’t need no stinking technology, while they drive a fuel-injected vehicle.

I am curious if anyone has implemented true 4-wheel steering in a true 4x4 vehicle, with lockers and all. I would think such a vehicle would be extremely maneuverable and off-road capable. I’m also pretty sure it would be quite expensive to do all that with such a complicated drive train before even considering 4-wheel steering.

 

[M Rose]

I am curious if anyone has implemented true 4-wheel steering in a true 4x4 vehicle, with lockers and all. I would think such a vehicle would be extremely maneuverable and off-road capable. I’m also pretty sure it would be quite expensive to do all that with such a complicated drive train before even considering 4-wheel steering.

Rock Buggies have been doing 4 wheel steer for years and years

 

[Smileyshaun]

Rock Buggies have been doing 4 wheel steer for years and years

Mud trucks , monster trucks , Chevy did it for a while on trucks . If I remember right the new Nissan GT-R has a slight amount of rear steer also .

 

[MOAK]

I feel ford did a good job with the bronco the trail turn assist will do on the rocks where i see it being needed. All the new cars have all kinds of assist to help the more average person to try new things without building a full rig.

I don’t see tractor brakes being needed anywhere on any trails on any street legal vehicle, except, and it’s a big exception, professional recovery vehicles. Sadly, all, and I mean all of the driver assist gizmos that modern cars come equipped with, is only an attempt at keeping poor drivers out of trouble. Owners of these high tech vehicles, Tesla comes to mind, are amazed at what the car “sees” that these same poor drivers never saw. So now, Ford comes out with a very old idea that has been used on sand rails, dune buggies, completion rock crawlers for over 50 years (farm tractors for over 100 years) and markets it as a new idea that one must have to be a good driver. Shame on Ford, and shame on anyone that falls for this nonsense. I’m running a vehicle with 112” wheel base dragging a 9ft long expo trailer and have traversed some of the tightest switchbacks and roughest trails in the country and never ever, even once, wished I had installed two parking brake levers.

 

[Tundracamper]

I don’t see tractor brakes being needed anywhere on any trails on any street legal vehicle, except, and it’s a big exception, professional recovery vehicles. Sadly, all, and I mean all of the driver assist gizmos that modern cars come equipped with, is only an attempt at keeping poor drivers out of trouble. Owners of these high tech vehicles, Tesla comes to mind, are amazed at what the car “sees” that these same poor drivers never saw. So now, Ford comes out with a very old idea that has been used on sand rails, dune buggies, completion rock crawlers for over 50 years (farm tractors for over 100 years) and markets it as a new idea that one must have to be a good driver. Shame on Ford, and shame on anyone that falls for this nonsense. I’m running a vehicle with 112” wheel base dragging a 9ft long expo trailer and have traversed some of the tightest switchbacks and roughest trails in the country and never ever, even once, wished I had installed two parking brake levers.

So you are saying a technology that has been around for 50 years shouldn’t be on a new vehicle? I would argue the opposite. It should have been on there all along. The only difference is that manufacturers are taking advantage of new safety systems, like anti-lock brakes, to accomplish new things that weren’t possible before.

As for saying these techniques are useless, I’d like to see you control the torque applied to each individual wheel using just the foot brake and accelerator. Yes, these cars can do things people can’t do.