Good DSLR for night pics?

[ScorpioVI]

Well after the last overnighter I've come to the conclusion that my Nikon Coolpix P520 just isn't cutting the cheese anymore.

Looking at some of y'alls night pics have gotten me more than a little bit jealous, folks like:

https://www.instagram.com/rlarroque/

and

https://www.instagram.com/kelotian/

... have really opened my eyes as to what a good camera can do.

So I'm starting to shop for a bargain DSLR that can get me close. I get the whole "Indian vs Arrow" concept, but sometimes the arrow just isn't good enough. What do you seasoned photographers recommend for cameras that I should start looking at?

I'm not looking to spend crazy money, and I'm not opposed to hunting for something used, I'm just trying to get an idea for a good starting point.

Thanks guys!

 

[Boort]

Well after the last overnighter I've come to the conclusion that my Nikon Coolpix P520 just isn't cutting the cheese anymore.

...

So I'm starting to shop for a bargain DSLR that can get me close. I get the whole "Indian vs Arrow" concept, but sometimes the arrow just isn't good enough. What do you seasoned photographers recommend for cameras that I should start looking at?

I'm not looking to spend crazy money, and I'm not opposed to hunting for something used, I'm just trying to get an idea for a good starting point.

@ScorpioVI

Welcome, A bunch of us have been talking about this in another thread. Here are some of my thoughts on gear and how to begin. See https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/seattle-area-astrophotography-meet-and-campsite-cleanup-04-07-2018.12220/#post-205123

What do you define as "crazy money"? It's different for all of us.
I'll be using mostly Nikon references as that Is what I use and am most familiar with. My night photography friends shoot a mix of Nikon, Sony, Canon, and Pentax all produce great astro-landscape photos.

I built my kit over the last 5-6 years off of craigslist, ebay, online and offline shops. Currently it consists of:

• Nikon D700 (lightly used off Craigslist)
• Really Right Stuff TVC-34 (Gift, Used)
• Rokinon/Samyang 14mm F2.8 (Used Adorama)
• Rokinon/Samyang 24mm F1.4 (New either B&H or Adorama)
• Rokinon/Samyang 35mm F1.4 (New B&H, Adorama, Maybe Amazon)
• Nikon 50mm f1.4 (Used local camera shop)
  
• Satechi WR-B100 Wireless Trigger (came with Camera in Craigslist deal)
• Nikon Battery Grip (came with Camera in Craigslist deal)

When dealing with SLRs the large aperture glass (f2.8, or lower) is more important to invest in than the camera Body. You can start out with Nikon D7xxx series and a good example of either the Rokinon/Samyang 24mm F1.4 or 35mm F1.4 (or DX Equivalents), a sturdy tripod (Does NOT need to be Carbonfiber, but you want it to be sturdy, no $25 Walmart specials.) and either a remote trigger (wired or RF, not IR) or a 2 second delay available in the Camera settings. As you grow your skills you can get more or better lenses (Nikon 14-24 f2.8, Sigma 14mm Art f1.8...), or upgrade your Body (Nikon D800,D810, D850...) There is a "Nikon D800E with DK-17M 35mm f1.4 and Extras " for $1525 on Craigslist in Los Gatos and a "Bogen Manfrotto 3021 Professional Tripod with 3-way 3047 head" for $80 in the Mission District.

All of this gear in these 2 ads is is older. Tripod is probably 20-25 years old but I think is the same model that I used through most of the 90's and early 00's. Check castings on the legs where they join the main body for any hairline cracks. They are prone to break here but are otherwise very stout tripods.
The D800 is newer than my D700 and very similar to the newer D810, I know Pro Night photographers who still shoot this body for some of their work. Though many are switching to the D850 or the Sony 7 II/III mirrorless over the last year. If this gear is not stolen and in good condition it would make a reasonably priced higher end Astrophotography starter kit.

Not sure how bad the drive from San Jose to Sacramento is but if you can make it check out https://mikescamera.com/sacramento-zoo-demo-day.html
I've been to a few of these events around Denver and CoSpgs over the years and they have been a fantastic way to get hands on with gear to see if it fits your style.

Any questions please ask away
Boort

 

[ScorpioVI]

Holy crap @Boort ! Thanks for the detailed post, answered just about everything I wanted to know.

Looking at used D700 prices near me seems to be in the $600-$800 range, that I can manage. Looks like that will be a good starting point for me.

I inherited an old tripod from a co-worker, not sure what brand it is, but I've been using it with a spotting scope for long-range rifle shoots and it works pretty well in that regards so it should work well as a base for long-exposure camera work as well.

Thanks for the tip on the Zoo demo day. The pooch travels everywhere with me and we're generally banned from zoos so I'll have to look for a demo day that's a little more pet-friendly.

 

[Boort]

@ScorpioVI

Holy crap @Boort ! Thanks for the detailed post, answered just about everything I wanted to know.
...
Thanks for the tip on the Zoo demo day. The pooch travels everywhere with me and we're generally banned from zoos so I'll have to look for a demo day that's a little more pet-friendly.

Your welcome, Glad if any of the info can help.
Probably good to look for a used Sony A7rii, or Pentax K-1 as these share the Sony Sensors that are so good in the dark and the new versions of both bodies were just released so pros are selling these older ones and jumping over to the new models. Same for the Canon 5dMiii (I think that is right) any of these will give you good night shots so pick the one that best fits your style and other needs.

Here in Colorado Mikes offers other demo days at other locations (Botanic Gardens, Butterfly Pavilion etc... at various times of the year) so give them a call and see what they are offering in your area.

Boort

 

[spoonible]

for night photos (especially astrophotography) I've found that the lens makes a bigger impact than the camera. you need one that is wide (smaller mm) and fast (lower f stop). on a budget you can do a used sony a6000 ($250-ish used) and a sigma 16mm f1.4 ($450 new). the tripod you already have will do just fine - it's a very lightweight setup. This is the exact setup I've used when I'm not lugging around my heavier gear, and for most night shots it does more than fine. Here is a good video on this lens for astro:

Aside from that, practice. Good astrophotography for me requires 90% planning and only 10% actual execution. Good luck!

 

[FJ81]

I just got a 8mm F4 lens for my Olympus, [so 16mm because of the crop factor]. Its all manual so that should be decent for this kind of stuff. I just have to find the time to get out and experiment with it. I also ordered a 12mm [24mm] f2 Rokinon so hopefully I can figure out how to use them.

 

[FJ81]

So I got my manual lenses now. On the olympus body it doesnt do the focus peaking automatically, so I set it to a custom button so I can turn it on. I was screwing around with the camera these last couple of days. I am getting the hang of shooting it on Shutter priority with the manual lenses. Still working on the focusing though. But it has been fun. This has made me use more options on my camera and begin to understand it more.
One other thing I learned is that even though my two wide angles I got are rectilinear, there is distortion on the edge, so certain items may not look right if composed a certain way. Really good learning from just having to experiment.

Since it was over cast I had to make my own stars... the flare from the 50mm[100mm] lens I got is nice. And because of the zoom items look good and no distortion.

This was with the 8mm[16mm] f4 lens. You can tell there is distortion since my truck is closer to the edge. And I had a harder time getting is decently sharp. I have to see if I can set my olympus to zoom in with a custom button. So I can get a better idea of what is properly focused.

This weekend I will be in Washington on the coast by Mukilteo. Maybe I can get some clear skies and actually do some stars.

 

[Boort]

@FJ81

...One other thing I learned is that even though my two wide angles I got are rectilinear, there is distortion on the edge, so certain items may not look right if composed a certain way.

Looking good! The wide angle lens distortion can generally be flattened in post. If using Adobe Lightroom go to the Develop tab/Lens Corrections tab/ X Enable Profile Corrections then pick the Make & Model of lens and Body profile for your setup. You can also tune the Distortion and Vignetting by hand if your setup is not included in the list. When you get to taking night sky pics you'll likely also want to X Remove Chromatic Aberration to remove the Green/Purple fringing from the stars.

If you find that you are missing the lens profiles for your kit get the downloader and you can add some user contributed ones. https://blogs.adobe.com/labs/archives/tag/adobe-lens-profile-downloader

Good luck and clear skys for the WA trip!
Boort

 

[FJ81]

Thanks for the tips. I was able to configure the magnify option so I can zoom in on my focus point. I will throw lightroom on the laptop over the weekend.

 

[MoreGone]

Editing will be a big factor in the outcome. I took the attached pic with my point and shoot, Panasonic Lumix, LX10. (Very similar to the Sony RX100)

Newer sensors are really pushing the dynamic range and are much better for night photography than the prior generation. Sony is making a lot of the sensors in other manufactures cameras. My Nikon D610 sensor is made by Sony and it is amazing. I also have the D700 and while that camera has a whimsical appeal for portraits, it is nowhere near as good as the D610 for low light shots.

That is not to say you can't get excellent photos with older gear like the D700. A fast lens will go a long way with night photography. Fast and wide lenses are pricey but the best tool for the job.

 

[ASRussell]

Personally I like Canon....I have a Canon 60D and too many lenses to list here......I like my L lenses....very good quality

 

[Boort]

@MoreGone

Editing will be a big factor in the outcome. I took the attached pic with my point and shoot, Panasonic Lumix, LX10. (Very similar to the Sony RX100) ... View attachment 56220

Beautifully lit and balanced MilkyWay shot!

I agree on fully that each newer sensor generation has gotten better with low light noise and Dynamic Range. The D800 was better than my D700, D810 better than the D800 and each of the D7x00 series has leaped it's predecessor. I got down to Denver Zoo for the Mikes Camera Test drive event a couple of weekends ago and can't wait to get a D850 out under dark skys!

I'm gonna have to stick with my D700 until I get my suspension and tires paid off though. :'( First World problem I know. :D

Boort

 

[MOAK]

I'm using Sony A65. My fixed is a 14mm F2.8 Rokinon manual lens. I'm still learning and we haven't gotten out much lately..

 

[HKLover]

This is a very good place to start. https://www.lonelyspeck.com/astrophotography-101/

If you are looking at new camera bodies, beware of Sony. Right now the new firmware has an algorithm that is NOT good for taking night sky photos. It is known as the "star eater" update because it considers some stars as hot spots in the sensor of something like that. It affects several of the Sony Alpha A7 series of cameras. There is a bit of a work around for it, but it is NOT a fix. https://www.lonelyspeck.com/how-to-fix-sony-star-eater-on-the-a7sii-and-a7rii-continuous-shutter-mode-workaround/

As a Sony A7Rii camera body owner, I am VERY dissappointed that Sony has NOT fixed this problem. Night sky photography is the main reason I have all the camera gear that I do. The Lonely Speck link above will eventually lead to the discussion about how Sony has not fixed this update.

Aside from that, I am very happy with my Sony body and lenses. The Zeiss 55/1.8 and Zeiss 35/1.4 along with my G70-200f4 and a Rokinon 24/1.8 make for some incredible photos.

 

[Etoimos]

I'm a canon guy and the setup below is one of the best you can have for astrophotography:

Canon 6D
Rokinon 24mm f1.4

Follow those links for an indepth review for each of them in regards to Milky Way photos. The site they are on has tons and tons of good info on shooting the MW as well as reviews on a lot of other cameras and lenses for astrophotography.

The 6D body can be had for around $800~$900 and that lens is less than $500. The Canon 6D is very well known for it low noise at high ISO. It also has the added benefit of being a full frame camera.

One of the biggest impacts on your might time photos is going to be your location. As you can see from my MW photos I posted above, the amount of ambient light really effects how your images will look.

 

[king.cong.1119]

Sony A7s

 

[ScorpioVI]

Thanks for,all the advice guys. I’m just absorbing all the information I can right now and watching the local Craigslist and Facebook marketplaces trying to get a feel for the market. I got a couple more things to do to the truck before I can set aside money for camera gear.

 

[kappels]

I'm a canon guy and the setup below is one of the best you can have for astrophotography:

Canon 6D
Rokinon 24mm f1.4

Follow those links for an indepth review for each of them in regards to Milky Way photos. The site they are on has tons and tons of good info on shooting the MW as well as reviews on a lot of other cameras and lenses for astrophotography.

The 6D body can be had for around $800~$900 and that lens is less than $500. The Canon 6D is very well known for it low noise at high ISO. It also has the added benefit of being a full frame camera.

One of the biggest impacts on your might time photos is going to be your location. As you can see from my MW photos I posted above, the amount of ambient light really effects how your images will look.

I will second this about the 6D! I’ve been a Canon user for over ten years now. Last year I made the upgrade from a Rebel XSi to the 6D and I can’t begin to describe how great it is, especially in low-light.

Another tip regardless of camera body and gear is shooting in RAW. That has also changed a lot for me in post-production and allowed for so much more room in brightening/color correcting without losing quality.


Sent from my iPhone using OB Talk

 

[Quicksilver]

a remote trigger (wired or RF, not IR)

Tons of good info in that post, but I zeroed in on this because the remote that came with my camera is IR. Why is IR bad for astrophotography?

 

[Boort]

@Quicksilver

Tons of good info in that post, but I zeroed in on this because the remote that came with my camera is IR. Why is IR bad for astrophotography?

Depends on the Cameras. Since most IR remotes work on or near the 980-nm wavelength they can cause fog or blips for cameras that don't fully filter out that wavelength. Many consumer cameras contain a filter to block IR and UV light but Astrophotography cameras don't (Nikon D810a, a host of modified Canon bodies, and various other astro photography imaging systems). Essentially these filters are removed from the body so that the photographer can control what light spectrum they image to get better details in Nebula and other astrophotography targets. There are also methods of increasing Signal-to-Noise ratio by adding IR/UV data to the visual light images.

Consumer cameras can also fog on long exposures with IR Remotes that send a constant signal to keep the shutter open. We had this happen on a workshop where a few cameras kept getting this glow that was not seen by any of the other cameras. On the 2nd night the guy with the IR remote camera was in another area for part of the evening and the glow went away.

Something to test out with your camera and to be aware of if you are shooting with others.

Boort