Expedition Master III
Ease up there...i think you have me confused with another! I never advocated going down across the border. I was one that urged caution. My preference is North, not south. Please take a deep breath, this is a discussion only.
Go to Baja with looming threat of border shutdown?
- Thread starter armourbl
- Start date
Off-Road Ranger I
Yeah, I think you're likely correct. In fact, the MX government has already stepped in and is attempting to stop the caravan from progressing (and has already stopped a second smaller caravan and arrested a bunch of people). i suspect if the caravan does actually make it (at the current pace of 30 miles a day, it will be about four more weeks of walking unless they start hopping in vehicles) they would likely go to a much closer border like Texas than Arizona and especially California. Them crossing in Baja would be incredibly out of the way for them, so i just don't think that would be realistic. To give some more context to where the caravan is in relation to the U.S. border - as of like yesterday they had only reached as far as the very southeastern part of Oaxaca (the state, not the city), about 200 miles into MX from the south traveled so far. That leaves over 1000 miles of travel left until they would be able to reach the closest border crossing of Brownsville, TX. If the caravan traveled out of the way enough to make it over to Baja and attempt to cross in San Diego, they would have to travel over 1000 miles of additional distance, which isn't a realistic scenario, imo. I suspect if anything there will be more BP presence at the crossings and maybe the lines will process a bit slower, but aside from that, i would expect it to be business as usual (barring something as crazy as "shutting down the border" whatever that would mean) at all California and Arizona crossings.
It should also be noted that these caravans are nothing new, from my understanding these have become almost a yearly thing. Don't get me wrong, this one is definitely the largest one to date. I'd even go so far as to suggest that if there wasn't an important mid-term election coming up this might not even be a big news story.
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No bro that was for "Doc" and his condescending comment [emoji111]. I'm just an average dude who doesnt want to see any fellow overlanders get into a bad situation. I dont give a shit about the political end of this discussion.
I've decided not to go.
I'm sorry this got so heated as a topic. It wasn't my intention.
No matter where the caravan tries to cross, the political tension will still be wide spread. Trump is sending something like 1600 troops to the Arizona border. If for any reason he were to shutdown trade or something similar, he'd have to do it across all ports of entries for the move to be effective. I'm not expecting this to actually happen, but just can't risk it either.
Then there is the article that Spartan shared showing the statistics of homicide rate increase. Very compelling and impossible to dismiss.
When I was last in Baja on a motorcycle a couple of years ago, there was a huge military presence on the roads wherever we went. We only once encountered a single person that was questionable in character, and he was an ex-convict from the US hiding now in Mexico, probably skipping out on parole and proud to announce it. So, in general, I absolutely believe the people there are great people and I'm sad that they are falling victim to all of this violence -- direct or indirect.
I did take a cruise to Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Puerto Vallarta back in July and it was uneventful, but we also made it a point of keeping to the very tourist areas and used guided port excursions for added safety. We were not off the ship at night at any point. I didn't really find the ports to be all that enjoyable. I had a much better experience on my motorcycle more inland. That is why I was hoping to do this trip in the Jeep, but I guess it will have to wait.
Thanks you for all of the advice and perspectives.
ben
I'm sorry this got so heated as a topic. It wasn't my intention.
No matter where the caravan tries to cross, the political tension will still be wide spread. Trump is sending something like 1600 troops to the Arizona border. If for any reason he were to shutdown trade or something similar, he'd have to do it across all ports of entries for the move to be effective. I'm not expecting this to actually happen, but just can't risk it either.
Then there is the article that Spartan shared showing the statistics of homicide rate increase. Very compelling and impossible to dismiss.
When I was last in Baja on a motorcycle a couple of years ago, there was a huge military presence on the roads wherever we went. We only once encountered a single person that was questionable in character, and he was an ex-convict from the US hiding now in Mexico, probably skipping out on parole and proud to announce it. So, in general, I absolutely believe the people there are great people and I'm sad that they are falling victim to all of this violence -- direct or indirect.
I did take a cruise to Cabo San Lucas, Mazatlan, and Puerto Vallarta back in July and it was uneventful, but we also made it a point of keeping to the very tourist areas and used guided port excursions for added safety. We were not off the ship at night at any point. I didn't really find the ports to be all that enjoyable. I had a much better experience on my motorcycle more inland. That is why I was hoping to do this trip in the Jeep, but I guess it will have to wait.
Thanks you for all of the advice and perspectives.
ben
Expedition Master III
Yes it did get warm there, but that is the passion and concern that was evident in this thread, But........it did stay civilized, unlike the You-Tube yahoos, and that says a lot for the type of people who populate OB. I should say that despite the passion shown, both sides of the argument gave reasons why (yah/nay) that they had their opinions. Some or most of it first hand.
These are trying times my friend keep your family safe and away from danger. You dont know how they will act towards us citizens
Member II
Traveler I
As a former US Army soldier, I'll recommend that you should change your plans and don't go there. You never know what could happen, and because of that is better to be on the safe side.
It stayed civilized? Perhaps you missed the posts where one member told another member to "go f*** themselves"... It's since been redacted/removed by moderators. Maybe our fellow OB members aren't any better...
Yep that was me. As long as everybody keeps the sarcastic shit to themselves everything will be fine [emoji16] Did my comment offend you ? Lol
No, you didn't offend me but it's hardly appropriate behavior on a forum where the vast majority of members value a collaborative and supportive network. If anyone doesn't want to participate in that or just wants to be jerk to strangers then it's in everyone's best interest if you found another dark corner of the web to hang out.
Look I was giving my input to potentially keep my fellow overlander safe that's it.. it was my personal opinion with nothing but good intentions. I didnt ask for these pretentious turds to interject with condescending comments trying to prove otherwise. Look if they feel it's safe to roll their pretty little overland vehicles into for the most part a warzone then that's their choice. On that note I think it is fucked up to downplay how volatile that region is. 25 or more people a day murdered, tourist missing, tourist dead, vehicles stolen, extortion by the crooked cops, blah blah blah.. I could go on for days. I lived there for a little over 6 months and the shit that goes on there is ridiculous. I drive a very well built JKUR expedition overlander that sticks out like a sore thumb (2018 Tepuifest Best in Show winner fyi..) anyways I know the nail that sticks out gets hammered.. There are no laws there let alone laws that protect you as an American citizen. Point blank it is unsafe place for the people that live there let alone some naive Gringo rolling through with a $50k rig. Might as well paint a big ass target on your back and say take me cartel. I'm done with this conversation, these keyboard warriors, and their 'delicate' sensibilities. The comments I made weren't even aimed for you so why we are even talking about this is lame. [emoji111]
Baja a "warzone"?
Lol
Oh yeah, lol. I get you lived there for 6 months, but having spent nearly that same time there myself and having a completely polarizing opinion. Perhaps it's peepicular based. Fwiw if you seek out the worst in Baja, Detroit, Cincinnati or Salt Lake City, you'll find places I wouldn't spent the night. Calling Baja a practical warzone is facetious and misleading at best. There are areas to avoid and any avid traveler will tell you that, they exist on both sides of the border. Hell we skipped a camp in Canada as it left some hairs raised in our group. It was practically a warzone, we almost had to send a Boy Scout troop to resolve.
Lol
Oh yeah, lol. I get you lived there for 6 months, but having spent nearly that same time there myself and having a completely polarizing opinion. Perhaps it's peepicular based. Fwiw if you seek out the worst in Baja, Detroit, Cincinnati or Salt Lake City, you'll find places I wouldn't spent the night. Calling Baja a practical warzone is facetious and misleading at best. There are areas to avoid and any avid traveler will tell you that, they exist on both sides of the border. Hell we skipped a camp in Canada as it left some hairs raised in our group. It was practically a warzone, we almost had to send a Boy Scout troop to resolve.
Troll lol. I've driven around the world, the lengths of CenAm and SoAm a few times now, raced the Baja 1000 a half dozen times now and I'm a "troll" because I have a countering opinion from your fear mongering?
I dont give a shit about you or your rig. You looking for a fight keyboard warrior? Lol. Go look elsewhere clown.[emoji1782]
Let me get the crayons out for you. You called Baja a warzone, by all definitions even the most conservative... it simply is not. The State Department, etc don't consider it anything but a typical travel risk.
As for the vehicle, you called it a "mall crawler", you must care. I've offroaded in a variety of rigs from rock crawlers to desert racers with Arctic Trucks and JK's in between. If your going to call my rig a "mall crawler" in some effort to dismiss my opinion on Baja and your warzone folklore status, at least have the courtesy to tell me which one you're referring to. Troll? Want to be the pot or the kettle?
Good for you dude you looking for a gold coin? I dont give a shit about where you have been or where the fuck your going. I've put 4000 miles on in the last month from the coast of California, elk hunting up by Utah and currently hunting the Wyoming/Montana border so really I am unimpressed. Why the fuck are so many of you Toyota guys so standoffish?..lol. You dont agree with my opinions that's fine but keep your naive punkass comments to yourself. I decided to look into your profile and really it all makes sense. Go smoke some more weed dude.
