GMRS info request

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Two isn't bad... could be worse.

View attachment 164610

I THINK someone is tracking submarines. LOL

 

[Boppa's Travels]

I THINK someone is tracking submarines. LOL

I wonder how he handles low clearance obstacles.

 

[LostInThought]

I wonder how he handles low clearance obstacles.

I'm just going to go out on limb here and guess that he doesn't park it in the garage.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

I'm just going to go out on limb here and guess that he doesn't park it in the garage.

Maybe he lives is a warehouse and height is not an issue?

 

[MattLew]

only 2 antennas???

by the time I get my comm gear installed I am looking at 4-9 full time antennas potential to include a lot more for special purpose.

CB: Uniden CMX 760 (on back order) since I do not have sufficient room to properly mount my old cobra 148nwst I have a magmount wilson for it presently, but I plan to rack mount an antenna once I can budget my cargo rack at which point I will be lookin for a replacement antenna the Uniden is an ultra compact with the controls in the hand set. and a small main unit that will get tucked below the driver seat.

GMRS: Midland MXT275 (I like it for the same reason I like the uniden) I have yet to order it. I presently do not have much use for it, but I will in time be adding it to my comm gear. Youtuber Last Line of Defense mounted his antenna (one of those ultra compact "ghost" antennas with a secondary high gain antenna he can swap out) from a clamp on bracket attached to the passenger fender which is an approach I really like the idea of. IMO both the GMRS and CB are primarily for convoy and trail/spotter communications.

both the radios I have chosen for my Tacoma are chosen because they are ultra compact form factor with the bodies getting mounted under the driver seat, and the head unit being all in one in the mic hand set.

and then we get the ham radio: I have a 706mk2g which is a long discontinued HF+6 & 2/.7 the current equivalent is the Icom IC-7100. I presently have a dual band V/U magmount, but like with my CB I will be changing antennas when I get my cargo rack. likewise I will replace my 6m antenna with a screwdriver antenna for HF+6 (I am thinking a tarheel 2 with modification for NVIS) when I upgrade to general. Additionally I used to have a pair of egg beater antennas which allow for mobile V/U satellite on the FM leosats. I used to have a set of horizontal loop antennas for my van in the mid 2000s which I am considering for the truck as well, though more likely I will use those as temporary antennas for mountain topping V/U (6m, 2m, and .7m)

I do have plans of at some point adding a second ham radio for dedicated APRS... it does have it's limitations and is specialized, but at minimum I will have a APRS capable HT with an external antenna in the truck once I do my full comm gear installation

plus a cell phone range extender such as WeBoost is on my wish list but not my essentials list.

Do not forget if you install a radio, install an external speaker for it it will be a lot easier to hear what folks are saying... especially if you wheel an open/soft top jeep or with the windows open... if ye really wanna get fancy, you can get external speakers with built in DSP... DSP or not, an external speaker is well worth adding

 

[Boppa's Travels]

only 2 antennas???

by the time I get my comm gear installed I am looking at 4-9 full time antennas potential to include a lot more for special purpose.

CB: Uniden CMX 760 (on back order) since I do not have sufficient room to properly mount my old cobra 148nwst I have a magmount wilson for it presently, but I plan to rack mount an antenna once I can budget my cargo rack at which point I will be lookin for a replacement antenna the Uniden is an ultra compact with the controls in the hand set. and a small main unit that will get tucked below the driver seat.

GMRS: Midland MXT275 (I like it for the same reason I like the uniden) I have yet to order it. I presently do not have much use for it, but I will in time be adding it to my comm gear. Youtuber Last Line of Defense mounted his antenna (one of those ultra compact "ghost" antennas with a secondary high gain antenna he can swap out) from a clamp on bracket attached to the passenger fender which is an approach I really like the idea of. IMO both the GMRS and CB are primarily for convoy and trail/spotter communications.

both the radios I have chosen for my Tacoma are chosen because they are ultra compact form factor with the bodies getting mounted under the driver seat, and the head unit being all in one in the mic hand set.

and then we get the ham radio: I have a 706mk2g which is a long discontinued HF+6 & 2/.7 the current equivalent is the Icom IC-7100. I presently have a dual band V/U magmount, but like with my CB I will be changing antennas when I get my cargo rack. likewise I will replace my 6m antenna with a screwdriver antenna for HF+6 (I am thinking a tarheel 2 with modification for NVIS) when I upgrade to general. Additionally I used to have a pair of egg beater antennas which allow for mobile V/U satellite on the FM leosats. I used to have a set of horizontal loop antennas for my van in the mid 2000s which I am considering for the truck as well, though more likely I will use those as temporary antennas for mountain topping V/U (6m, 2m, and .7m)

I do have plans of at some point adding a second ham radio for dedicated APRS... it does have it's limitations and is specialized, but at minimum I will have a APRS capable HT with an external antenna in the truck once I do my full comm gear installation

plus a cell phone range extender such as WeBoost is on my wish list but not my essentials list.

Also gives you plenty of locations to string camp lights

 

[MattLew]

Also gives you plenty of locations to string camp lights

I thought for that I would just bring along a couple 30-50' antenna towers and duck tape them to my bumpers :D

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Sad part is in realty the way things are going with coms and different groups, 4 antennas is a real possibility.

 

[Sasquatch SC]

Sad part is in realty the way things are going with coms and different groups, 4 antennas is a real possibility.

I technically have three, but only the GMRS and CB antenna are a little bit noticeable. They stick up like 32" from the top of the car on either side. The WeBoost antenna is smaller than the satellite radio antenna shark fin looking thing that it came from the factory with.

 

[MattLew]

I would say you could cover the basics (assuming you wanted all three services) with a minimum of 3. The simple truth of the matter is it all depends on WHAT the majority of the people you hang out with use. There is NO point in getting mobile GMRS if you are the only one who uses more than a FRS/GMRS hand held... Likewise, while I am a proponent of having CB, because not everyone is able to use licensed services, if the only people you travel with always use GMRS, then it is probably worth getting one as well... ham radio has a LOT of uses, but if you are the only licensed ham in your group or for that matter if ANYONE in the group is not licensed, it is of no use for group comms, but at the same time, I strongly advocate anyone with any interest that coincides with ham radio get licensed at least as a tech. it is not difficult, and it opens SO MANY OPTIONS.

CB: reasonable price for basic equipment, NO LICENSE COSTS... and it is easy enough to get a cheap hand held to loan to someone (new?) who has no comms in a group ride. A lot of people complain about all the ******** out there cluttering up the band, and I have heard my share of them, but I have never been anyplace where I could not find a dead channel available. A comms officer who knows what they are doing will have a plan with a backup plan and maybe a backup to the backup plan and make comm guides for the group as well as hold a pre trip briefing to go over the plan and backup plans. in that way folks know if there is too much noise on one channel they are to switch to the alternate channel.

GMRS: $70 for 10 years is not bad, but it does represent a barrier to entry, especially for folks who will seldom use it and need to budget the funds to other places... like a tent or recovery gear, etc.

Ham radio: $15 and passing a fairly easy test (maybe a month of study) will get you licensed. Like the GMRS it lasts for 10 years and may cost as much as $15 to renew... equipment can be low end or completely outlandish, but a dual band radio and an external antenna should be considered minimum. So a CB and a dual band ham radio will cover your minimal needs with just 2 external antennas... but there are ALWAYS more comms gear options... especially if you are going out solo.

IMO someone traveling solo should have a amateur radio general class license with an HF capable radio MINIMUM... Ideally if getting into remote areas, also be packing a satellite communicator. If traveling with a group, having long range comms gear is not so essential so long as SOMEONE in the group does. I personally believe in making sure you have as many options as possible.

I mentioned pre-trip briefings... no matter how casual the trip is, there SHOULD be a briefing prior to departure, even if it is just 3 buddies taking their trucks to a camp sight that is JUST BARELY off the paved road. Whoever is leading the group should give at least a simple briefing covering what the route is (with printed directions for each vehicle) including any planned stops and discussion of refueling points, as well as what frequency/channel the group comms will be on. the larger or more coordinated the group needs to be should have more details added potentially including a secondary briefing by a comms officer who will go over procedures (especially needed in larger groups)

 

[Boppa's Travels]

I would say you could cover the basics (assuming you wanted all three services) with a minimum of 3. The simple truth of the matter is it all depends on WHAT the majority of the people you hang out with use. There is NO point in getting mobile GMRS if you are the only one who uses more than a FRS/GMRS hand held... Likewise, while I am a proponent of having CB, because not everyone is able to use licensed services, if the only people you travel with always use GMRS, then it is probably worth getting one as well... ham radio has a LOT of uses, but if you are the only licensed ham in your group or for that matter if ANYONE in the group is not licensed, it is of no use for group comms, but at the same time, I strongly advocate anyone with any interest that coincides with ham radio get licensed at least as a tech. it is not difficult, and it opens SO MANY OPTIONS.

CB: reasonable price for basic equipment, NO LICENSE COSTS... and it is easy enough to get a cheap hand held to loan to someone (new?) who has no comms in a group ride. A lot of people complain about all the ******** out there cluttering up the band, and I have heard my share of them, but I have never been anyplace where I could not find a dead channel available. A comms officer who knows what they are doing will have a plan with a backup plan and maybe a backup to the backup plan and make comm guides for the group as well as hold a pre trip briefing to go over the plan and backup plans. in that way folks know if there is too much noise on one channel they are to switch to the alternate channel.

GMRS: $70 for 10 years is not bad, but it does represent a barrier to entry, especially for folks who will seldom use it and need to budget the funds to other places... like a tent or recovery gear, etc.

Ham radio: $15 and passing a fairly easy test (maybe a month of study) will get you licensed. Like the GMRS it lasts for 10 years and may cost as much as $15 to renew... equipment can be low end or completely outlandish, but a dual band radio and an external antenna should be considered minimum. So a CB and a dual band ham radio will cover your minimal needs with just 2 external antennas... but there are ALWAYS more comms gear options... especially if you are going out solo.

IMO someone traveling solo should have a amateur radio general class license with an HF capable radio MINIMUM... Ideally if getting into remote areas, also be packing a satellite communicator. If traveling with a group, having long range comms gear is not so essential so long as SOMEONE in the group does. I personally believe in making sure you have as many options as possible.

I mentioned pre-trip briefings... no matter how casual the trip is, there SHOULD be a briefing prior to departure, even if it is just 3 buddies taking their trucks to a camp sight that is JUST BARELY off the paved road. Whoever is leading the group should give at least a simple briefing covering what the route is (with printed directions for each vehicle) including any planned stops and discussion of refueling points, as well as what frequency/channel the group comms will be on. the larger or more coordinated the group needs to be should have more details added potentially including a secondary briefing by a comms officer who will go over procedures (especially needed in larger groups)

I look at it more in a solo traveler standpoint as kind of like a social component was in New Mexico for a month sometimes I had cell service and other times I didn't. So talking to others is based on what equipment they use also so if it takes 4 antennas and 4 different radios then k. I also look at it especially ham as a hobby in retirement.

 

[MattLew]

I look at it more in a solo traveler standpoint as kind of like a social component was in New Mexico for a month sometimes I had cell service and other times I didn't. So talking to others is based on what equipment they use also so if it takes 4 antennas and 4 different radios then k. I also look at it especially ham as a hobby in retirement.

Well as I pointed out in my radio list, 3 radios will cover all the services, but if you have a general license, you are looking at 4 antennas minimum. But out of that, you will get the most use out of a good all band amateur radio. (for example an IC7100, though I hear rumors of new SDRs in the works that may radically change how we do mobile radio in the next year or so) with an all band amateur radio and a vehicle you have VHF which will let you hit repeaters if any are within range, or if you have a general/extra ticket, you can hop on HF using either an antenna with a tuner, or a tunable antenna such as a screwdriver type (so named because the first ptototype was controlled with the motor out of a cordless screwdriver) and work all over the continent (do not expect global contacts from your mobile set up) but when you get to camp, you can easily string up a bigger wire antenna and make global contacts depending on conditions. you can also hook a laptop to the radio and do data contacts... basically anything that can be done from a home station can be done mobile/portable including digital EME/p

I would still have at least a CB (infact my initial setup for my new tacoma is just going to be to install my old 706 and my new ultra compact CB once it arrives... I will then work on getting other comms gear as needed at a later date but in the end I will eventually have an all band ham radio, CB, GMRS, satellite communicator, and cell booster all installed)

I also still have one of my old CB-HTs (that I really should test to see if it still works... I have fried several of them over the years leaving batteries in them the batteries end up corroding and trashing the radios) but I am also looking at a cheap midland all-in-one (basically an HT that is shipped with a power cord and an external anetenna cable) that I can loan to someone traveling with me who lacks comms gear.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Well as I pointed out in my radio list, 3 radios will cover all the services, but if you have a general license, you are looking at 4 antennas minimum. But out of that, you will get the most use out of a good all band amateur radio. (for example an IC7100, though I hear rumors of new SDRs in the works that may radically change how we do mobile radio in the next year or so) with an all band amateur radio and a vehicle you have VHF which will let you hit repeaters if any are within range, or if you have a general/extra ticket, you can hop on HF using either an antenna with a tuner, or a tunable antenna such as a screwdriver type (so named because the first ptototype was controlled with the motor out of a cordless screwdriver) and work all over the continent (do not expect global contacts from your mobile set up) but when you get to camp, you can easily string up a bigger wire antenna and make global contacts depending on conditions. you can also hook a laptop to the radio and do data contacts... basically anything that can be done from a home station can be done mobile/portable including digital EME/p

I would still have at least a CB (infact my initial setup for my new tacoma is just going to be to install my old 706 and my new ultra compact CB once it arrives... I will then work on getting other comms gear as needed at a later date but in the end I will eventually have an all band ham radio, CB, GMRS, satellite communicator, and cell booster all installed)

That looks like a run on the table and probably be doing something simliar.

 

[SAFETYRUNNER]

Midland has nice setups. I'm going for the MXT275 soon myself.

MicroMobile® GMRS Two-Way Radios | Midland Radio

I just bought the same unit. Should be here today and installed by Friday. Lots of mounting options for the 4Runner.

 

[M Rose]

and then we get the ham radio: I have a 706mk2g which is a long discontinued HF+6 & 2/.7 the current equivalent is the Icom IC-7100. I presently have a dual band V/U magmount, but like with my CB I will be changing antennas when I get my cargo rack. likewise I will replace my 6m antenna with a screwdriver antenna for HF+6 (I am thinking a tarheel 2 with modification for NVIS) when I upgrade to general. Additionally I used to have a pair of egg beater antennas which allow for mobile V/U satellite on the FM leosats. I used to have a set of horizontal loop antennas for my van in the mid 2000s which I am considering for the truck as well, though more likely I will use those as temporary antennas for mountain topping V/U (6m, 2m, and .7m)

I do have plans of at some point adding a second ham radio for dedicated APRS... it does have it's limitations and is specialized, but at minimum I will have a APRS capable HT with an external antenna in the truck once I do my full comm gear installation

No the Icom IC7100 is a lot more powerful radio than that... it’s a full 160-6 HF, 2m/70 cm and even covers part of the 1.2m band... you don’t mention what your long discontinued radio is, but is it a 100w rig?

 

[jeepers29]

I just bought the same unit. Should be here today and installed by Friday. Lots of mounting options for the 4Runner.

Did you buy an extra antenna or do you plan on using the one it comes with? I am looking at this radio, but know nothing about what antenna to use.

 

[LostInThought]

Did you buy an extra antenna or do you plan on using the one it comes with? I am looking at this radio, but know nothing about what antenna to use.

For GMRS, you're looking for an antenna that covers 462MHz and 467MHz. The gain of the antenna determines how "pinched" toward the horizon the signal will be - more pinch meaning greater sensitivity to a signal on the horizon and more transmit power pushed toward the horizon. The downside of high gain is if the other station is much higher of lower than yours, they won't be "in the beam" of your antenna. The supplied antenna is 0dBi (omnidirectonal and certainly good enough to start with), 2-3dBi works well in hilly terrain where distance will be limited by line-of-sight anyway, 4-6+dBi is great for flatter areas (including highway).



I have a stubby Laird Phantom (AmazonLINK, 3dBi claimed, but perhaps less) and a Midland MXTA26 (AmazonLINK, 6dBi claimed, but it's too short the SWR minimum is well of 470MHz) in addition to the antenna that comes with that radio. I've have a Diamond Luggage rack mount that either the Midland or Laird will screw onto, depending on my plan for the day. (The mounts are cheapest on Gigaparts.com. Roof is 2-3 dB better than hood or trunk as a mounting location, but all work. I suggest buying one with the cable included unless you're proficient at soldering the connectors on. HINT: Buy a good mount, since a crappy one can easily lose you half of your signal power (3dB).)

So, how to visualize how "pinched" the beam is? Here are **ROUGH** estimates of the beam-widths for various antenna gains (mileage varies - a lot).



And here is a trick you can use to visualize an angle against the sky or horizon using just your hand at arm's length.



So, hang-loose, centered vertically on the horizon is about the height of the 6dBi antenna beam. A 3dBi antenna beam gets a little more than a whole hang-loose above and below the horizon.

 

[Downs]

For GMRS, you're looking for an antenna that covers 462MHz and 467MHz. The gain of the antenna determines how "pinched" toward the horizon the signal will be - more pinch meaning greater sensitivity to a signal on the horizon and more transmit power pushed toward the horizon. The downside of high gain is if the other station is much higher of lower than yours, they won't be "in the beam" of your antenna. The supplied antenna is 0dBi (omnidirectonal and certainly good enough to start with), 2-3dBi works well in hilly terrain where distance will be limited by line-of-sight anyway, 4-6+dBi is great for flatter areas (including highway).

View attachment 164953

I have a stubby Laird Phantom (AmazonLINK, 3dBi claimed, but perhaps less) and a Midland MXTA26 (AmazonLINK, 6dBi claimed, but it's too short the SWR minimum is well of 470MHz) in addition to the antenna that comes with that radio. I've have a Diamond Luggage rack mount that either the Midland or Laird will screw onto, depending on my plan for the day. (The mounts are cheapest on Gigaparts.com. Roof is 2-3 dB better than hood or trunk as a mounting location, but all work. I suggest buying one with the cable included unless you're proficient at soldering the connectors on. HINT: Buy a good mount, since a crappy one can easily lose you half of your signal power (3dB).)

So, how to visualize how "pinched" the beam is? Here are **ROUGH** estimates of the beam-widths for various antenna gains (mileage varies - a lot).

View attachment 164955

And here is a trick you can use to visualize an angle against the sky or horizon using just your hand at arm's length.

View attachment 164954

So, hang-loose, centered vertically on the horizon is about the height of the 6dBi antenna beam. A 3dBi antenna beam gets a little more than a whole hang-loose above and below the horizon.

That first graphic is one of my favorite to share when people start getting really worked up on high gain antennas. Many times in the terrain we work in that's counter productive.

 

[LostInThought]

That first graphic is one of my favorite to share when people start getting really worked up on high gain antennas. Many times in the terrain we work in that's counter productive.

There are several versions of it, but I appreciated seeing it (or one like it) one of your (?) earlier posts - it *really* clarifies what's happening for those starting out!

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

There are several versions of it, but I appreciated seeing it (or one like it) one of your (?) earlier posts - it *really* clarifies what's happening for those starting out!

All except dummies like me.