GMRS info request

[LumixLab]

For anyone that has the MXT275 what kind of antenna do you need? Can you do a puck antenna?

I used a Midland MXTA25 Ghost. Very small mounted on the fender.

 

[LostInThought]

I hope Prerunner1982 is right about Midland coming about with basically a 50 watt version of the 275. But in the mean time I have schedule my Ham test this week so I hope to have my license soon.

A 50W version of the 275 would be neat, just be realistic about what the extra 35W *really* gets you:

1. Line of sight will still be the primary limitation. You won't be able to transmit "through/over" high ground (or much past the curvature of the Earth) to a receiver on the other side. This is a function of the frequency, not the transmit power - more power doesn't change line-of-sight.
2. 50W will NOT be able to "hear" any further than 15W. This is a function of the antenna efficiency, not the transmit power. The ham guys that talk around the world do it with efficient antennas and lower frequencies often using only 5-10W of power.
3. Roughly, for a particular unobstructed signal path, the "reach" of the 50W transmission is about 1.5x the reach of a 15W transmission. This is exactlywhat 50W of transmit power "buys" you.
   1. If the primary problem is ground clutter obstructing the line of sight (urban or otherwise), 50W *might* "punch through" a *little* better than 15W - it will depend on the situation - the difference is *not* likely to be enough to justify a big price difference.
   2. For example, my 15W MXT-275 with an "okay" antenna can operate a mountain top repeater ~50 miles away with an unobstructed signal path (we're both on high ground with direct line of sight), though depending on conditions (bad weather, driving, etc), I don't always achieve full FM quieting. The 50W would likely achieve full FM quieting to the same repeater from the same position.
4. Think of the difference as follows:
   1. Going from 15W to 50W of transmit power is ~3-4dBi signal improvement for transmit only.
   2. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included with the 275) to a 3dBi gain antenna provides 3dBi improvement to BOTH transmit and receive.
   3. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included) to a 6dBi antenna again improves for transmit and receive, to the level that ~60W would provide to transmit alone.
   4. Note: higher antenna gain is achieved by "pinching" the signal toward the horizon - when your goal is to communicate with a group in very hilly terrain, a 2dBi antenna may be more effective than a 6dBi antenna. However, you can always carry both, and fit which ever one you need to the mount.
5. While the 15W unit can be power from a 12V accessory jack, the 50W unit should probably be wired directly to the battery.

Judging from the price difference between Midland's other products, the 15W MXT-275 and the 40W MXT-400, I'd guess that Midland would price a 50W, controls-on-mic radio at ~$350. So, assuming they don't add some other useful features, here's my two-bits of unsolicited advice:

• Since I already own a 275, I won't upgrade. I might buy a better antenna, but I won't upgrade.
• If I didn't already have a 275, I'd buy the 50W radio if the price difference was less than $100, and I'd buy the 275 if the price difference was more than $100. Either way, I'd buy a better antenna than the one supplied and the $100 is kind of a breakeven on the second antenna.
• Depending on what your offroad group is using, a 2m/70cm ham could be a better long term investment (buy once, cry once). (The "ham test" is **not** difficult and there are **awesome** resources out there to help you ace it the first time. PM me if you have questions.)

Completely off topic: Ground clutter interferes with the amplitude of a signal, not the frequency. Because CB signals are "amplitude modulated" ("AM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the amplitude of the carrier), more transmit power can make a bigger difference here because ground clutter messes with the amplitude of the passing wave and can render a signal unintelligible (more noise/static in the signal). GMRS is "frequency modulated" ("FM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the frequency of the carrier) so the clarity or intelligibility of the signal isn't affected by ground clutter, though the ground clutter can make the signal weaker. Most of the ham radios you might install in your vehicle will be 25-100W, FM transmitters (though some can also do digital, AM, and side-band) on 144-148MHz + 420-450MHz (and perhaps wider, though a few also transmit on 50MHz and 28MHz).

Boy this got long. Shouldn't have had the second beer before finishing!

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

A 50W version of the 275 would be neat, just be realistic about what the extra 35W *really* gets you:

1. Line of sight will still be the primary limitation. You won't be able to transmit "through/over" high ground (or much past the curvature of the Earth) to a receiver on the other side. This is a function of the frequency, not the transmit power - more power doesn't change line-of-sight.
2. 50W will NOT be able to "hear" any further than 15W. This is a function of the antenna efficiency, not the transmit power. The ham guys that talk around the world do it with efficient antennas and lower frequencies often using only 5-10W of power.
3. Roughly, for a particular unobstructed signal path, the "reach" of the 50W transmission is about 1.5x the reach of a 15W transmission. This is exactlywhat 50W of transmit power "buys" you.
   1. If the primary problem is ground clutter obstructing the line of sight (urban or otherwise), 50W *might* "punch through" a *little* better than 15W - it will depend on the situation - the difference is *not* likely to be enough to justify a big price difference.
   2. For example, my 15W MXT-275 with an "okay" antenna can operate a mountain top repeater ~50 miles away with an unobstructed signal path (we're both on high ground with direct line of sight), though depending on conditions (bad weather, driving, etc), I don't always achieve full FM quieting. The 50W would likely achieve full FM quieting to the same repeater from the same position.
4. Think of the difference as follows:
   1. Going from 15W to 50W of transmit power is ~3-4dBi signal improvement for transmit only.
   2. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included with the 275) to a 3dBi gain antenna provides 3dBi improvement to BOTH transmit and receive.
   3. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included) to a 6dBi antenna again improves for transmit and receive, to the level that ~60W would provide to transmit alone.
   4. Note: higher antenna gain is achieved by "pinching" the signal toward the horizon - when your goal is to communicate with a group in very hilly terrain, a 2dBi antenna may be more effective than a 6dBi antenna. However, you can always carry both, and fit which ever one you need to the mount.
5. While the 15W unit can be power from a 12V accessory jack, the 50W unit should probably be wired directly to the battery.

Judging from the price difference between Midland's other products, the 15W MXT-275 and the 40W MXT-400, I'd guess that Midland would price a 50W, controls-on-mic radio at ~$350. So, assuming they don't add some other useful features, here's my two-bits of unsolicited advice:

• Since I already own a 275, I won't upgrade. I might buy a better antenna, but I won't upgrade.
• If I didn't already have a 275, I'd buy the 50W radio if the price difference was less than $100, and I'd buy the 275 if the price difference was more than $100. Either way, I'd buy a better antenna than the one supplied and the $100 is kind of a breakeven on the second antenna.
• Depending on what your offroad group is using, a 2m/70cm ham could be a better long term investment (buy once, cry once). (The "ham test" is **not** difficult and there are **awesome** resources out there to help you ace it the first time. PM me if you have questions.)

Completely off topic: Ground clutter interferes with the amplitude of a signal, not the frequency. Because CB signals are "amplitude modulated" ("AM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the amplitude of the carrier), more transmit power can make a bigger difference here because ground clutter messes with the amplitude of the passing wave and can render a signal unintelligible (more noise/static in the signal). GMRS is "frequency modulated" ("FM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the frequency of the carrier) so the clarity or intelligibility of the signal isn't affected by ground clutter, though the ground clutter can make the signal weaker. Most of the ham radios you might install in your vehicle will be 25-100W, FM transmitters (though some can also do digital, AM, and side-band) on 144-148MHz + 420-450MHz (and perhaps wider, though a few also transmit on 50MHz and 28MHz).

Boy this got long. Shouldn't have had the second beer before finishing!

Thanks for this info. Good info is invaluable. I was already thinking I needed to upgrade to the 50W when I just bought the MXT275 last week. I have definitely changed my mind now that we have some facts.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

A 50W version of the 275 would be neat, just be realistic about what the extra 35W *really* gets you:

1. Line of sight will still be the primary limitation. You won't be able to transmit "through/over" high ground (or much past the curvature of the Earth) to a receiver on the other side. This is a function of the frequency, not the transmit power - more power doesn't change line-of-sight.
2. 50W will NOT be able to "hear" any further than 15W. This is a function of the antenna efficiency, not the transmit power. The ham guys that talk around the world do it with efficient antennas and lower frequencies often using only 5-10W of power.
3. Roughly, for a particular unobstructed signal path, the "reach" of the 50W transmission is about 1.5x the reach of a 15W transmission. This is exactlywhat 50W of transmit power "buys" you.
   1. If the primary problem is ground clutter obstructing the line of sight (urban or otherwise), 50W *might* "punch through" a *little* better than 15W - it will depend on the situation - the difference is *not* likely to be enough to justify a big price difference.
   2. For example, my 15W MXT-275 with an "okay" antenna can operate a mountain top repeater ~50 miles away with an unobstructed signal path (we're both on high ground with direct line of sight), though depending on conditions (bad weather, driving, etc), I don't always achieve full FM quieting. The 50W would likely achieve full FM quieting to the same repeater from the same position.
4. Think of the difference as follows:
   1. Going from 15W to 50W of transmit power is ~3-4dBi signal improvement for transmit only.
   2. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included with the 275) to a 3dBi gain antenna provides 3dBi improvement to BOTH transmit and receive.
   3. Going from the 0 dBi gain antenna (included) to a 6dBi antenna again improves for transmit and receive, to the level that ~60W would provide to transmit alone.
   4. Note: higher antenna gain is achieved by "pinching" the signal toward the horizon - when your goal is to communicate with a group in very hilly terrain, a 2dBi antenna may be more effective than a 6dBi antenna. However, you can always carry both, and fit which ever one you need to the mount.
5. While the 15W unit can be power from a 12V accessory jack, the 50W unit should probably be wired directly to the battery.

Judging from the price difference between Midland's other products, the 15W MXT-275 and the 40W MXT-400, I'd guess that Midland would price a 50W, controls-on-mic radio at ~$350. So, assuming they don't add some other useful features, here's my two-bits of unsolicited advice:

• Since I already own a 275, I won't upgrade. I might buy a better antenna, but I won't upgrade.
• If I didn't already have a 275, I'd buy the 50W radio if the price difference was less than $100, and I'd buy the 275 if the price difference was more than $100. Either way, I'd buy a better antenna than the one supplied and the $100 is kind of a breakeven on the second antenna.
• Depending on what your offroad group is using, a 2m/70cm ham could be a better long term investment (buy once, cry once). (The "ham test" is **not** difficult and there are **awesome** resources out there to help you ace it the first time. PM me if you have questions.)

Completely off topic: Ground clutter interferes with the amplitude of a signal, not the frequency. Because CB signals are "amplitude modulated" ("AM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the amplitude of the carrier), more transmit power can make a bigger difference here because ground clutter messes with the amplitude of the passing wave and can render a signal unintelligible (more noise/static in the signal). GMRS is "frequency modulated" ("FM" - the signal is embedded by tweaking the frequency of the carrier) so the clarity or intelligibility of the signal isn't affected by ground clutter, though the ground clutter can make the signal weaker. Most of the ham radios you might install in your vehicle will be 25-100W, FM transmitters (though some can also do digital, AM, and side-band) on 144-148MHz + 420-450MHz (and perhaps wider, though a few also transmit on 50MHz and 28MHz).

Boy this got long. Shouldn't have had the second beer before finishing!

What bigger is not better? Dang TV commercials been lying to me all this time. I guess your going tell new and improved is also not a step up....LOL

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Of course, I am looking more at form factor and where to mount the base out of the way and the mic to control the radio.

 

[LostInThought]

Of course, I am looking more at form factor and where to mount the base out of the way and the mic to control the radio.

With one of these for your vehicle and a hunk of Cat5 cable, the answer is "pretty much anywhere".

 

[Aaron Parker]

As a ham operator myself, I can vouch for how great it is for travel and mulit-vehicle groups. It's also pretty fun to find locals on repeaters.

A 2M\70cm unit for your car can be had pretty cheap. I love my BTECH Mini UV-25X2 25 Watt ham radio. They are only $129 I also had a NMO mount installed so I have a really clean antenna install on the rear of the roof of my Jeep.

Even 25 watts and a cheap radio gets me typically around 15-20 miles unless there are really poor conditions, or a deep terrain blocking it. Even the most powerful transmission may go less than a mile if blocked well enough. But if you can hit a repeater you can span multiple states, or even connect through to others parts if the world of you know how.

It is easy to get a license... No reason not to really. It's good fun, and nice to be able to use alternative communications when nice or needed.

 

[LostInThought]

As a ham operator myself, I can vouch for how great it is for travel and mulit-vehicle groups. It's also pretty fun to find locals on repeaters.

A 2M\70cm unit for your car can be had pretty cheap. I love my BTECH Mini UV-25X2 25 Watt ham radio. They are only $129 I also had a NMO mount installed so I have a really clean antenna install on the rear of the roof of my Jeep.

Even 25 watts and a cheap radio gets me typically around 15-20 miles unless there are really poor conditions, or a deep terrain blocking it. Even the most powerful transmission may go less than a mile if blocked well enough. But if you can hit a repeater you can span multiple states, or even connect through to others parts if the world of you know how.

It is easy to get a license... No reason not to really. It's good fun, and nice to be able to use alternative communications when nice or needed.

Repeaters really are a game changer. Here in New Mexico there are 29 GMRS repeaters across the whole state, but over 300 ham repeaters on 2m and 70cm. Many of the ham repeaters are in linked systems, so that if I can hit one of them, I have them all. From Albuquerque, I can talk to Fort Collins, Colorado. We put the repeaters on high mountaintops - typically several thousand feet above the valley floors. 50 mile line of sight is workable here.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Repeaters really are a game changer. Here in New Mexico there are 29 GMRS repeaters across the whole state, but over 300 ham repeaters on 2m and 70cm. Many of the ham repeaters are in linked systems, so that if I can hit one of them, I have them all. From Albuquerque, I can talk to Fort Collins, Colorado. We put the repeaters on high mountaintops - typically several thousand feet above the valley floors. 50 mile line of sight is workable here.

I just spent a month in New Mexico. That is some good info because I will be heading back that soon (I hope if the VA lets me) and I pass my test this week.

 

[M Rose]

Thanks for this info. Good info is invaluable. I was already thinking I needed to upgrade to the 50W when I just bought the MXT275 last week. I have definitely changed my mind now that we have some facts.

You have a great little radio Jim, like I said in our side conversation I was really thinking of getting it, but wife said either get that rig and scrap my plan of getting a higher powered ham radio with Mars/Cap mod or stick to my original plan... so it’s sticking to the original plan.

I was looking at my buddy’s rig last week, he as an AnyTone dual band radio (forget the model of it), a Uniden Bear Cat, and a Midland Of some kind all mounted in his Silverado. His dash is cluttered... In a couple of weeks, I’m going to help him get it uncluttered so his coms setup won’t be so confusing.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I just spent a month in New Mexico. That is some good info because I will be heading back that soon (I hope if the VA lets me) and I pass my test this week.

What does VA have to do with your return to NM ?

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

You have a great little radio Jim, like I said in our side conversation I was really thinking of getting it, but wife said either get that rig and scrap my plan of getting a higher powered ham radio with Mars/Cap mod or stick to my original plan... so it’s sticking to the original plan.

I was looking at my buddy’s rig last week, he as an AnyTone dual band radio (forget the model of it), a Uniden Bear Cat, and a Midland Of some kind all mounted in his Silverado. His dash is cluttered... In a couple of weeks, I’m going to help him get it uncluttered so his coms setup won’t be so confusing.

I found a couple of items in a closet yesterday. One is a Realistic TRC-417 40 channel CB, the other is a Uniden Bearcat 350A 50 channel mobile base radio scanner. I cant remember when I acquired either but probably from my oldest son who was always giving me radio equipment. I also found what looks like a bumper mount (or bracket mounted) 5' long, white coated antenna with no name on it. Question, do GMRS radio's have different type antennas than a CB radio ? Can they share antennas ?

 

[Prerunner1982]

Question, do GMRS radio's have different type antennas than a CB radio ? Can they share antennas ?

Antennas are tuned to the frequency so CB and GMRS can not share an antenna as they are too far apart in frequency.

 

[M Rose]

I found a couple of items in a closet yesterday. One is a Realistic TRC-417 40 channel CB, the other is a Uniden Bearcat 350A 50 channel mobile base radio scanner. I cant remember when I acquired either but probably from my oldest son who was always giving me radio equipment. I also found what looks like a bumper mount (or bracket mounted) 5' long, white coated antenna with no name on it. Question, do GMRS radio's have different type antennas than a CB radio ? Can they share antennas ?

The white antenna is a Firestick CB antenna. Or it’s a marine VHF antenna.
Out of the box you can’t use a CB antenna as a UHF (GMRS) antenna.
The Realistic TRC-417 40 while kind of large compared to some CBs would do well for you. If you are thinking of putting a cb in your rig, you might look at a cobra 75 or similar.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

What does VA have to do with your return to NM ?

VA disability rated. Most of the time you don't get to pick appointment times. If you turn one down it might take months to get another.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Antennas are tuned to the frequency so CB and GMRS can not share an antenna as they are too far apart in frequency.

Thank you. I guess that means I need 2 antennas on my rig if I want CB service and GMRS reception. Think I'll stick with my hand held CB.

 

[Prerunner1982]

Thank you. I guess that means I need 2 antennas on my rig if I want CB service and GMRS reception. Think I'll stick with my hand held CB.

yeah, you don't want your rig to end up looking like mine.

 

[LostInThought]

Thank you. I guess that means I need 2 antennas on my rig if I want CB service and GMRS reception. Think I'll stick with my hand held CB.

Two isn't bad... could be worse.

 

[Boppa's Travels]

Two isn't bad... could be worse.

View attachment 164610

Boy I can imagine the stares you get going down the road.

 

[Sasquatch SC]

A lot of people have pointed out how much clearer the GMRS radios are than the CB. I have both in my rig. I have the Midland MX275 GMRS with the 6dB antenna and a Uniden Bearcat CB with a similar size antenna. I barely ever even turn on the CB anymore. I only ever use it to listen to the truckers on alligator radio when traffic backs up on the interstate or when the trails are crowded I turn it on to scan through the channels. But the GMRS has some additional benefits. It's ability to use the same low band frequencies as the FRS blister pack walkie talkies is great because if you need a spotter you have much better communication than hollering out an open window and using hand signals. Also, I have a ICOM Marine dual-band radio on my boat that I can switch over from VHF to GMRS which makes it a lot easier finding a campsite from the water or coordinating with whoever you trust enough to not sink your rig and trailer on the boat ramp.