First Aid Questions and Suggestions Post Here

[Bernie]

This thread is for any questions related to first aid, trauma care, medical care in general, and for members to post suggestions or request topics to be covered. Don't be shy, if you have the question in your head I guarantee others do to!

Chris

I been trying to build a kit based on the list provided, but i am not able to find some of the items listed. Could we have some more detail on the items(i.e: maybe a link to amazon)

 

[Fellow Jeeper]

I was wondering if MD Chris might be able to put together a short video for tick care. Here in the east we got a lot of em but they are in all lower 48 now. Black legged deer tick is on the move and can carry the dreaded lyme disease. I had a reminder yesterday when one was stuck in my shoulder. Maybe cover removing and after bite care. And remind everybody to check for them every day while out on the trail. Thanks

 

[MunsterGeo Overland]

I was wondering if MD Chris might be able to put together a short video for tick care. Here in the east we got a lot of em but they are in all lower 48 now. Black legged deer tick is on the move and can carry the dreaded lyme disease. I had a reminder yesterday when one was stuck in my shoulder. Maybe cover removing and after bite care. And remind everybody to check for them every day while out on the trail. Thanks

That's be a good one for us here in Europe too as we have the same issues you have described. I'd love to get the advice from such a highly qualified professional.

 

[Steve in Roanoke VA]

Have not read this entire thread, apologies if this has been brought up already. Also thanks for the informative videos!
Would like to see current first aid procedures/recommendations for poisonous snake bites, spiders (brown recluse & black widow) and scorpions.

 

[Steve in Roanoke VA]

Ah...snake bites....so much myth and folklore about treatment. In the simplest explanation, treating snake bites comes down to this: get the person to the hospital for anti-venom as fast as possible.

Now, along the way there are dos and don’ts which I’ll list here. I’m going to start with the don’ts as these are more likely to cause harm.

Don’t cut the wound to make it bigger. People thought it would help the venom drain out, it doesn’t. You are just cutting your friend for your entertainment.

Don’t try to suck the venom out. I mean, really?!? One it doesn’t work and two why would you expose yourself to venom and potentially have two victims?

Don’t apply a tourniquet. Tourniquets stop arterial flow from the heart to the area, they don’t do a great job of stopping the venous flow back to the heart. This is where the venom will be, in the venous side.

Don’t give the person any medications, alcohol, caffeine. The explanation requires a lot more time and space than it needs to, do just take my word on this one.

Don’t apply an ice pack. The venom will start to kill the tissue in the area and the ice will help it by slowing the body’s ability to respond to the trauma.

Don’t buy a snake bite kit.


Ok, on to the dos:

Scene Safety: make sure the snake is gone or get the person away from the snake and any other dangers.

Call for help and plan evacuation.

Start the primary survey, the ABCs (for those who have watched or been to a class, you’ll see that this is applied to everything!). If there is major bleeding apply pressure to the area. Despite the don’t above, if you need to apply a tourniquet to stop massive bleeding it is ok in this instance only. It would be rare to have the snake hit a major artery so direct pressure should be fine the majority of the time. Make sure the Airway, Breathing, and Circulation are doing their thing. The person may have fallen and hit their head trying to get away or have other injuries that need to be addressed.

Once the ABCs are done, try to keep the person as calm as possible. The slower the heart beats the slower the venom spread.

Cover the wound with gauze. Only needs to be as tight as needed for the amount of bleeding. If there is no real bleeding keep the the dressing loose.

Remove jewelry from the area that was bitten. The area will swell and this can cause other issues. Same thing with shoes, take off shoes on the affected side unless the person has to walk for evac. If you are hiking you can make a makeshift litter with branches and jacket to drag them out. Boy Scout handbook taught me this one.

Try to clean the area but don’t give it a deep clean. Takes too much time that needs to be spent getting help.

Now this all for venous snakes. If you are 100% certain that the bite was a non-venomous snake, treat the wound as a puncture wound. Irrigate and wash it out well and cover with clean gauze. Usually these aren’t deep enough to warrant closing.


Now, if you can....and I mean if....try to remember what the snake looks like. Color, shape of head, etc. Don’t try to capture it.


As you can see, snake bites aren’t treated differently than other injuries in the immediate care setting. Like most major injuries we will encounter at home or in the back country, getting help is really what the person needs. Have your trauma and basecamp first aid kits stocked and learn how to use the contents and you’ll always be able to help.

Hope this helps!!

Chris

Just read this, thanks for the info, going to throw out all of my snakebite first aid kits!

 

[Justin Lee]

Just read this, thanks for the info, going to throw out all of my snakebite first aid kits!

Please shed some light on this for me:

I had to perform venomous snake bite first aid for a test lane. When asked what to do with the snake, I spouted off that I don't care about the snake because all anti-venom is the same. I have come to learn that this may only be true by continent/region, as we don't supply Puff Adder venom here in the states, due to their rareness here. So in short, the question is: does the type of anti-venom matter, or does it physiologically do the same thing?

 

[landyandy4x4]

hi i'm doing a solo 5 year round the world trip in a few years and what would be the best form medical training i can get for my self thanks all

 

[MunsterGeo Overland]

I honestly don't know what the "best" would be, I'll leave that recommendation to those medically qualified to advise on but I have found from experience that the REC or Rescue Emergency Care training is excellent.

I started with the REC3 course and currently have done the REC4 and before the end of June will have completed the REC5 course.

It's practical, well taught in my experience with my trainers, both classroom and outdoor based work involved.

Give a Google search for Rescue Emergency Care and you'll get the information you need then make contact with the body to see if they might meet your requirements.

If it's pre-hospital emergency care and expedition training you require then I can highly recommend it based on my personal experience. It's enabled me to better deal with the issues that arise both with domestic and outdoor situations.

Two books I'd recomend are NOLS Wilderness Medicine and the Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care.

Neither book is substitute for training from a certified training institution but are great reference texts to compliment training.

 

[landyandy4x4]

I honestly don't know what the "best" would be, I'll leave that recommendation to those medically qualified to advise on but I have found from experience that the REC or Rescue Emergency Care training is excellent.

I started with the REC3 course and currently have done the REC4 and before the end of June will have completed the REC5 course.

It's practical, well taught in my experience with my trainers, both classroom and outdoor based work involved.

Give a Google search for Rescue Emergency Care and you'll get the information you need then make contact with the body to see if they might meet your requirements.

If it's pre-hospital emergency care and expedition training you require then I can highly recommend it based on my personal experience. It's enabled me to better deal with the issues that arise both with domestic and outdoor situations.

Two books I'd recomend are NOLS Wilderness Medicine and the Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care.

Neither book is substitute for training from a certified training institution but are great reference texts to compliment training.

Thanks I'll have a look.

 

[lil ford]

Great stuff El Solis, I live in rattle snake country and have seen them on hikes, so far so good, no issues.

 

[Overland A Far]

Please shed some light on this for me:

I had to perform venomous snake bite first aid for a test lane. When asked what to do with the snake, I spouted off that I don't care about the snake because all anti-venom is the same. I have come to learn that this may only be true by continent/region, as we don't supply Puff Adder venom here in the states, due to their rareness here. So in short, the question is: does the type of anti-venom matter, or does it physiologically do the same thing?

I believe the right answer is to properly identify the snake so the medical personnel can apply the correct anti-venom. This may include dispatching the critter and bringing it in (same with spider bites/scorpion bites or any critter that bites and results in a serious reaction).

 

[Justin Lee]

I believe the right answer is to properly identify the snake so the medical personnel can apply the correct anti-venom. This may include dispatching the critter and bringing it in (same with spider bites/scorpion bites or any critter that bites and results in a serious reaction).

We really prefer in the ER that you NOT bring the specimen with you. It has the potential to create more issues haha

 

[lil ford]

like freak the whole ER out, ROFLOL.

 

[Justin Lee]

like freak the whole ER out, ROFLOL.

WITHOUT A DOUBT. Unfortunately, prolly wouldn't be the weirdest thing to see that day...

 

[El Solis]

Now I’m not an expert on snake anti-venom but I did my homework and I’m pretty sure that here in North America there is only one type of anti-venom used regardless of the snake. So yeah, don’t bring the snake.

 

[Justin Lee]

Now I’m not an expert on snake anti-venom but I did my homework and I’m pretty sure that here in North America there is only one type of anti-venom used regardless of the snake. So yeah, don’t bring the snake.

That's what I had heard. Do not tourniquet, calm patient, initiate EMS. Pretty much all you can do.

 

[Brock McCloy]

Hey @El Solis,

I have a couple questions regarding training.

1) I'm aware of the red cross basic first aid training and the NOLS WFA training. I want to know if there are any specific trainings/certifications that you recommend? As well as how to access those trainings.

2) With all the COVID-19/social distancing going on, trainings seem hard to come by. Are there any at home trainings (potentially online) or things to read that can help get me get introduced and familiar with certain topics. This would mainly serve to help me be better prepared for when I am able to attend a training course. I do have the field guide to wilderness medicine book. The problem with that book is I'm not sure what to read through first. Do you have any suggestions on what order I should read through things?

Thanks for what you do for the community and providing us with this invaluable knowledge.