Ever wonder what happens if you break a ball joint on the trail?

[smritte]

This happened in Doren canyon up in Calico some time ago. If you look carefully, you see a car hood laying on the trailer. We used that as a skid to drag the Jeep backwards out of the canyon about 200 yards to a trailer. the only thing that was holding the knuckle/tire on was the steering. When the ball joint broke, it instantly broke the other one then snapped the axle and brake line. This is one of three I have seen.

For some reason, people don't tend to check ball joints or don't know how. This includes shops. The load you put on them combined with the off-road driving lessen the life span and makes this very important to keep an eye on.

 

[zgfiredude]

There just happened to be a car hood laying around? More pics are needed here

 

[North American Sojourner]

My guys checked ball joints every car and truck. It's a money maker. Another reason is camber/caster/tow can be affected. Anytime the vehicle is off the ground 4" use a prybar under the tire and lift up gently. You'll know by watching the ball joint if it needs to be replaced.
Zim

 

[smritte]

There just happened to be a car hood laying around? More pics are needed here

Unfortunately that's the only picture I still have. Found it by accident this morning while I was looking for something else. This was not taken with a digital camera, I had scanned it into my folder. The hood was from an abandoned car someone spotted earlier.

 

[smritte]

My guys checked ball joints every car and truck. It's a money maker.

When I started in the shop, everyone did them. Around the late 80's is when I noticed the next generation didn't check some of the basics. I would hear "not my job". Now that I teach this stuff, you bet I have them check things. Be surprised how many people have no idea what a "weep hole" is.

 

[WTSMatt]

For us who do not an extensive mechanical background can anyone offer some tips and what to look for if we'd like to check this at home? I do not want to be taking a similar photo some day.

 

[North American Sojourner]

For us who do not an extensive mechanical background can anyone offer some tips and what to look for if we'd like to check this at home? I do not want to be taking a similar photo some day.

Zim

 

[WTSMatt]

Thank you!

 

[MidOH]

I've had jeeps, Ram's, and Superduty's, that were nearly scrap metal, and the joints tested ''ok'' with a prybar. Sometimes you just have to change them due to age on the regular.

Wear and tear was unlikely the reason that jeeps joint failed.

 

[smritte]

The driver side ball joint had play in it also. So, Yea, high mileage and wear contributed to it. And yes he was under power.
Eight or nine months later a 4Runner in a group I was in, was cruising down a dirt road broke one also. She was going up a mild hill. Fortunately the damage wasn't as server. The surviving side had a bit of play in it also. She had just bought it and the shop that inspected it, gave it a clean bill of health.
Every vehicle I have seen that broke a ball joint was high mileage. Not all of them were 4wheel drives and not all were off road.

 

[Billiebob]

This is why I love solid axles. Wranglers, F250s, W250s.......
Independant suspensions are built for a Cadillac ride. Off road there are many more important considerations...

BUT on "the mechanic missed it !!"
Sorry you were shopping for a cheap shop. NO mechanic misses play in the ball joints.
I send my vehicle to the shop twice a year for simple oil changes BECAUSE they do a 60 point mechanical check up every time.
In 40 years of relying on a proper shop I have never broken down, stranded anywhere and I drive 24K miles a year.

When I go in for that oil change I specifically say..... "Plus I need a full checkup, I drive lots of miles".
That has cost me
Brake pads and callipers.
U Joints.... Steering knucles, the big CV joint.
Rebuilt parking brake .... shoes, discs, cables.
A new rad before it blew up on a trail.
A battery which failed a load test.
They caught a tire tread delaminating before it went flat

ANYONE saying the shop missed it is likely lying. I have never found such incompitance. You go in twice a year for a full mechanical inspection you will not have problems on the trail.
BUT

An idiot can break anything.

 

[smritte]

ANYONE saying the shop missed it is likely lying. I have never found such incompitance. You go in twice a year for a full mechanical inspection you will not have problems on the trail.

Consider yourself lucky. I spend 3 decades working in the industry and now have spent another 16 years teaching in the industry for various manufactures as well as new technicians looking to enter the field. Your better trained techs will check things like ball joints. In my experience those are a minority now. Your also lucky enough to be able to afford to have someone else inspect your vehicle. That also is becoming rare. MOST technicians in the field have no formal training at all.
When I have to teach a class about the latest ABS system and only 1 out of 20 actually know how brakes work. Yea

I'm sorry but saying that anyone stating the shop missed it is lying speaks of your inexperience. I would bet less than 20% of mechanics actually know how to check one properly. Your lucky you never found that type of incompetency. I have worked with over a hundred techs and have trained well over a thousand. I stand by what I say.

 

[MidOH]

How do you check them? I should be more specific. I've checked a few old buckets and the joints passed. But the truck was loose as a goose. Solution? Replaced those joints.

I went with an F250 specifically for the larger stronger axle joints. Camper carrying capacity wasn't really a factor at first.

Loose Track bars and death wobble has been kicking the carp out of pro technicians for years now.

 

[smritte]

How do you check them? I should be more specific. I've checked a few old buckets and the joints passed. But the truck was loose as a goose.

I'm going to give a basic description here for the people who don't know how these things work as well as answer your question.

If you watch the video posted, that's the basic procedure, mine is similar. I'm looking for up/down movement. You can force a good one to move if you try hard enough. I have some I use at work as demo's with close to 1/4 inch of play.
Here's for people who donk know how they work.

To understand how they break you have to understand how their built. The steel ball sits in a pocket surrounded by a soft metal. Normally this is bronze. Between the bronze liner and the outer socket is what's called a spring. This normally is a thin, very hard rubber. The spring serves two purpose, one is cushioning the other is keeping tension on the liner to the ball. The ball joint is designed to support up/down and very little side/side as well as allow turning.
Over time the rubber spring becomes brittle, the bronze wears and now we get up down movement. On the street this isn't bad. Dirt on the other hand works it harder, add in the side pull from a front diff and we get wear on the sides also.

Once this is bad enough, they don't really break as much as pull out of the housing. On the street, it has to be worn badly then al it takes is a good bump to unseat it. Off-road the front diff pull can pull it out of one end. That's what happened in the picture. If I had thought to take better pictures, you would have seen where the bottom pulled out and the top was ripped out.

As I stated before, I have seen this three times off road and twice on the street. ALL of them had the same issue, worn and pulled out.

When I posted this, I didn't think it would get the push back it did. Just because someone hasn't seen it doesn't mean it wont happen. If they do see it, it also doesn't mean they took the time to analyze the problem with understanding how the things are assembled.

 

[MazeVX]

So I encountered at least 2 shops including a jeep dealership who had no idea about balljoints, even when I brought it in to get the balljoints and ujoints replaced they said they where okay until they was out and falling apart. Balljoints and ujoints are a wear element and needs to be changed, that's it.
Oh but there's a balljoint delete system, Google it and make your own opinion about it.

 

[MidOH]

A ballpoint press tool isnt too expensive, and itll give you time to really know your truck. It's a perfectly DIY job on solid axles.

 

[North American Sojourner]

In Missouri, ball joint inspection is mandatory for the annual inspection.
Remember, these service techs are paid flat rate. Most ball joints pay at least 2 hours and that's about $200 labor, at least. That's food on the table, diapers on the butt, and gas in the tank.
Zim

 

[North American Sojourner]

A ballpoint press tool isnt too expensive, and itll give you time to really know your truck. It's a perfectly DIY job on solid axles.

Autozone will loan you the tool for free. You pay a deposit, and get it back when you bring it back.
Zim

 

[North American Sojourner]

So let's talk shops.
Dealerships are on the way out for service. I've worked for Ford and Kia as a service tech. Loyalty has disappeared with the customer/dealership experience. This is due to the "units out the door" mentality. Sell and hope it won't return. If it returns, throw parts at it until they go somewhere else. Dealerships will no longer pay the tech the time it takes to properly diag the issue so they pinpoint the issue, throw a part at it and send it down the road.

My favorite line is "Does your shop have a sign that lights up at night" LMAO...................you'd be supprised at the answers I get.

One of the best Companies I worked for was Firestone. Believe it or not, honesty is the policy. They will actually take you out to the car and show you the problem. It's required.
"I believe honesty is the keystone of business"- Harvey Firestone. LOL (put the tissue down now) Master service tech's are retiring and few are being replaced. Vocational schools must be supported or we're in trouble

Many service techs laugh at the senior ASE guys and won't get certified. These are the guys with the 5lb hammers that fill 2 drawers. Ask for the senior tech to check your vehicle. This will be the guy who's pulling 120 hours a week, and don't need your money. He made his $100,000 by July.

Finally, do your research. The internet is a wonderful education place and there are many places to get "good info".
Don't accept "my dad told me to pull off the positive battery cable to check the alternator" or "I use Lucus Oil Stabilizer" in my 2018 Chevy. It's 2022. I loved my Dad, but he was full of shit too. LOL
Zim

 

[Todd S.]

So let's talk shops.
Dealerships are on the way out for service. I've worked for Ford and Kia as a service tech. Loyalty has disappeared with the customer/dealership experience. This is due to the "units out the door" mentality. Sell and hope it won't return. If it returns, throw parts at it until they go somewhere else. Dealerships will no longer pay the tech the time it takes to properly diag the issue so they pinpoint the issue, throw a part at it and send it down the road.

My favorite line is "Does your shop have a sign that lights up at night" LMAO...................you'd be supprised at the answers I get.

One of the best Companies I worked for was Firestone. Believe it or not, honesty is the policy. They will actually take you out to the car and show you the problem. It's required.
"I believe honesty is the keystone of business"- Harvey Firestone. LOL (put the tissue down now) Master service tech's are retiring and few are being replaced. Vocational schools must be supported or we're in trouble

Many service techs laugh at the senior ASE guys and won't get certified. These are the guys with the 5lb hammers that fill 2 drawers. Ask for the senior tech to check your vehicle. This will be the guy who's pulling 120 hours a week, and don't need your money. He made his $100,000 by July.

Finally, do your research. The internet is a wonderful education place and there are many places to get "good info".
Don't accept "my dad told me to pull off the positive battery cable to check the alternator" or "I use Lucus Oil Stabilizer" in my 2018 Chevy. It's 2022. I loved my Dad, but he was full of shit too. LOL
Zim

I have done that, pulling off the positive cable to check the alternator on my cousin car. That was an expensive lesson. If I remember right, when I was younger we would do that to check the generator.