Electric Winch vs Hi-Lift Winching Kit?

[58-fc170]

Interesting as the new ARB jack is they overlooked the main likeable characteristic of the high lift, simplicity.
There are no seals to fail and no fluid to leak out over time and cause the jack to be useless also no delicate aluminum housing that can get caved in when run over.

 

[Lindenwood]

Those were actually all thoughts I had with the ARB jack, heh.

I am fortunate enough that I have a garage in which we can park both cars, and I work on a military installation. So, it is only during quick errands that the rif-raf really have access to my vehicle to mess with it. Otherwise, yeah, I definitely would be a lot more worried about having stuff mounted externally.

 

[TerryD]

This is a great test. Some people will probably only find themselves recovering in emergencies while others will be running trails where a winch could be a must to get through.

I've carried a Hi-Lift for years. I've used them to break tire beads and plenty of lifting. I've never attempted to use one as a winch though. I'm not even sure I could rig a pulling setup with the gear I have in my truck. That's probably something I need to check into.

As for the chain debate, you could probably swap the chain for a length of Amsteel Blue winch line with a loop on each end. With a soft shackle, it'd be easy to rig a slip where you could shorten up the rope after each pull by gently sliding the rope. I can't remember the exact name of the rigging but it's used in heavy lifts all across the country daily.

I was planning on having a winch and bunker from the beginning. I want to do trails that are more challenging than some would be interested in and being able to recover myself was a major concern.

 

[Lindenwood]

Yeah, for somebody looking to "go 4wheeling," a winch does make a bit more sense as a greater priority after the basic vehicle mods. However, for just getting from point A to B down established roads, I think most of us do or should recognize that the actual odds of getting stuck when you are trying to avoid getting stuck are pretty low, as long as you have a modestly capable vehicle.

I am going to try to squeeze in a bit of time soon (my baby is now like 1.5 days old, heh) to re-make my winch setup with the 1/4" chain. When I get it done, I will take some better pics of how it is set up.

 

[58-fc170]

Most of the time it seems it isn't your vehicle that is stuck. Winches seem to be used more often on recovering other people that you come across that are stuck than to recover the vehicle they are mounted to.

 

[Lindenwood]

I have read a lot of the same things. I generally prefer to use a snatch strap if I am trying to recover another vehicle.

I have actually use a vehicle to pull a tree two times. The first time, I used my honda fit to apply tension to a big tree in my yard that was leaning over my house, and successfully pulled it out into the street while cutting it down.

The second time, I used the winch on my 4runner to pull a fallen log off the trail, and the whole time I kept thinking I should have just drug (dragged?) it with a tree strap.

 

[58-fc170]

I would say it comes down to convenience/preference. If you don't mind spending a bit longer pulling your self out with a high lift and would like to save the money vs. an electric winch why not. One could also utilize a hand come-along in a similar fashion for self recovery.

But I prefer to be able to quickly and easily unspool the winch and get the job at hand done with out the repetitive effort of a high lift, then move along with my day of exploring. A high lift and electric winches (front and rear) are all accessories for my rig but then again I am a fan of redundancy.

 

[justjames]

Great thread! It's thought provoking as well as stirring some old memories for me. I think its say to say I'm older than most of the contributors here and I grew up in a rural area where my father was the general store operator/garage/mechanic/welder. In modern terms, the community jack of all trades. I used a Hi-Lift as a jack, a winch, a wire stretcher for fencing and post or stump removal. We/I had no idea of any breaking points other than in those days, the wooden handle sometimes broke when pulling hard on the 4' pipe I'd put over the handle for more leverage.

 

[Lindenwood]

Finally got a chance to snap a quick pic of how my chains attach to the jack.



I had originally experimented with several bulky nose attachments, and for a while ended up settling on reinforcing the wheel-lifting attachment (the Lift-Mate). However, because the lifting vector was a good 5-6 inches from the jack beam, it resulted in a lot of extra and unnecessary torques. Experimenting with nose attachments that put the lifting chain closer to the beam resulted in unwieldy hunks of metal.

I ended up just crunching numbers to figure out how safely I could simply drill a hole through the web of the lifting nose to mount the chain directly.

I calculate a minimum of 15,000 lb of force to tear the bolt out of the web, with 12,000lb required to start stretching the hole . The Gr8 7/16 bolt holding the chain has a shear strength of 13,500lbs. As discussed, the (minimum) breaking strength of the chain is 12,600 lbs, and the jack itself is designed to prevent forces over 7,000 lbs (which again would take 265lb of force on the end of the handle ;) ).

Interestingly, while the factory elongated hole toward the tip of the nose is not rated for loads, approximating the hole dimensions and specs I get about 10,000lbs to tear a bolt out of it.

 

[CalTexMex]

I have both as well. The last recovery, we started with the hi-lift for better positioning. After maxing that out, we went to the recoil strap to get out. Tried the winch, but no real anchor point for it and almost pulled a tree/boulder out!! All in all, it’s nice to have options available to use when out on the trail. Remember, luck favors the prepared.

 

[Graeman]

This has been an excellent read tonight. I have always loved the multiple uses of the hi-lift jack. I put a winch on my Duramax a couple of years ago and it was used once. Sure the $1k that I spent on the front bumper made it way cooler to look at.. The winch also draws a lot of juice from your battery - not a problem if the engine is running at speeds above idle. Dead engine + winching for recovery = very dead battery. Most everyone forgets to upgrade the battery to one with more cca when they purchase the winch.

 

[Corbet]

If winching is something you think is in your future buy a winch.

Using a hi-lift for that purposes works but sucks IMHO. Especially on a full size rig. I rarely carry to gear to do so, and only as a 4th option.

For most, and again just my opinion, a set of Maxxtrax would be a better investment to get unstuck. They work in any direction without an anchor point. Safer for those with less recovery experience. (These or the winch are my top two recovery options depending on the situation)

My Option 3, is a Wyeth-Scott puller. https://www.wyeth-scott.com/models.asp This is faster than the hi-lift, feels much safer (you all can debate), pulls a greater distance without re-rigging. My winch is near needing a new synthetic rope. When I replace it I'll probably cut a section of my old to replace the steel on this.

Not trying to derail the original posters trail test. Just offering my real world experience. To me Winching with a hi-lift is just not a good recovery option.

 

[Lindenwood]

Well, for all the bitching I do about winches, it sure was handy today to drag myself out of a big ol bowl of "suck your shoes right off your feet" mud! Admittedly, I was absolutely asking for it; I had gone around it earlier, and on my way back I had one of those "hey skeeter, watch this!" moments. But, maybe 10 or 12 minutes later and I was out, with no shoveling, jacking, cranking, or messing with traction mats. So, while I could have gotten out with other methods, this certainly was convenient!

 

[Lindenwood]

It did just occur to me that I did not account for the 20+ minutes you need to speed at the end of the day unspooling, washing, and re-tensioning the winch cable...

 

[4wheelspulling]

I want to share another option for you to look at. I received this message from a member here on a new product that sounds like it would work great for some. Here you go, take a look and I look forward to your comments. Vance.


Nov 2, 2019
Dear Sirs,

We are an Australia manufacturer specialising in offroad recovery gear with a new and innovative product and technique that offers foward and reverse recovery.

BOG OUT is a rope harness that is attached to the bogged or spinning wheel, the other end is secured and then you simply drive out. Two BOG OUTs secured on either the front or the rear wheels provides highly effective, twin diff lockers and the system will work on any vehicle up to a small tractor. It has been tried and tested in Australia for over 5 years.

We have many happy customers who already have a winch but like our product as a back up for when they need to reverse. Other customers have SUVs and cannot fit the bull bar to mount the winch. The system is lightweight, compact, safe and reliable. Please see BOG OUT 4x4 Vehicle Recovery System |Turns bogged wheels into winches

We are seeking USA based influencers or youtubers to review our product - we have Central Queensland University testing, 4WD club and customer reviews - all Australian and would be honoured to have opinion from Overland Bound. Please note, we are a small family owned business - our product is made in Australia and we hope to launch in the US via Amazon shortly.

Please advise how we could support Overland Bound.

Thank you for your kind consideration

Regards
@CharlieA.

 

[Lindenwood]

Honestly, that looks pretty damned ingenious. Id probably use that before even a winch.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Finally got a chance to snap a quick pic of how my chains attach to the jack.

View attachment 54416

I had originally experimented with several bulky nose attachments, and for a while ended up settling on reinforcing the wheel-lifting attachment (the Lift-Mate). However, because the lifting vector was a good 5-6 inches from the jack beam, it resulted in a lot of extra and unnecessary torques. Experimenting with nose attachments that put the lifting chain closer to the beam resulted in unwieldy hunks of metal.

I ended up just crunching numbers to figure out how safely I could simply drill a hole through the web of the lifting nose to mount the chain directly.

I calculate a minimum of 15,000 lb of force to tear the bolt out of the web, with 12,000lb required to start stretching the hole . The Gr8 7/16 bolt holding the chain has a shear strength of 13,500lbs. As discussed, the (minimum) breaking strength of the chain is 12,600 lbs, and the jack itself is designed to prevent forces over 7,000 lbs (which again would take 265lb of force on the end of the handle ;) ).

Interestingly, while the factory elongated hole toward the tip of the nose is not rated for loads, approximating the hole dimensions and specs I get about 10,000lbs to tear a bolt out of it.

Your bolt rating is not in that configuration, those bolts will bend/shear in short order.

That rigging is absolutely not kosher and you are asking to get hurt.

Not an engineer, but I have built and broken more shit than your average schmoe, I wouldn't get anywhere near that rig.

 

[Lindenwood]

Your bolt rating is not in that configuration, those bolts will bend/shear in short order.

That rigging is absolutely not kosher and you are asking to get hurt.

Not an engineer, but I have built and broken more shit than your average schmoe, I wouldn't get anywhere near that rig.

Source?

I am aware it is not perfect shear. However, the chain loops' close proximity to the bolt's shear plane, the fact that the load is split equally between two separate sections of the bolt, and the previously-stated margins all make me quite comfortable with this rigging.

That said, if you ever see me on the trail winching with this set up, feel free to stay back as far as you'd like.

 

[M Rose]

Source?

Hard Knox

 

[Lindenwood]

To be fair, running some additional numbers, the bolt would start to permanently deform at around 9000lb of pulling force. That is indeed less than originally assessed, but still quite a bit more than the jack itself (let alone my muscles) is actually capable of applying. Still, it might be worth looking into 1/2" bolts, which would take about 13,500lb in this configuration before deforming.