Advocate I
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Don't let off the gas...oh,wait
- Thread starter FishinCrzy
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Guardian I
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Advocate I
Didn't see the vid in the link, but watched it earlier. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, and if there is any data/evidence about it cutting out. I wonder which mode it was in and if this was perhaps just standard traction control kicking in, because it wasn't in one of the modes that allow aggressive tire-spin. Also, I know this is a very easy to say, Monday-morning quarterback thing, but it seems like he could have rolled out of that and avoided the flop.
-TJ
-TJ
Member III
I wish the video still showed.
Looking at the picture, the obstacle has a sharp up hill at the top. I'm sure that had a bit to do with his demise.
"If" the vehicle actually cut off like people are saying, it could be low fuel level. Almost vertical climb means no fuel. The fuel pump is in a cylinder surrounded by fuel to keep this from happening. If the level is low to begin with, as soon as he started up, the fuel pickup would have been starved. If he made several attempts and stayed on the hill, it would run dry.
This was common in some early EFI vehicles which is why they went to an enclosed module. Imagen your truck stalling every time you took a corner with low fuel.
if it flopped over backwards it was his lack of driving skill.
As for traction control, one thing people need to realize is, its more designed for adverse conditions and mild off road. Looking at that picture, I would have disabled it before attempting anything like that.
I saw this issue starting with the last gen of Jeep Rubicon and believe it or not, the H-1 hummer. The vehicles were way more capable then the drivers. All these mods mean are "you get into more trouble". I'm my opinion, most people should not have heavily modified vehicles unless they have some experience under there belt. If my vehicle cut out on something like that, I would have been able to bring it back down without issue. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy here. Cant fix stupid.
Looking at the picture, the obstacle has a sharp up hill at the top. I'm sure that had a bit to do with his demise.
"If" the vehicle actually cut off like people are saying, it could be low fuel level. Almost vertical climb means no fuel. The fuel pump is in a cylinder surrounded by fuel to keep this from happening. If the level is low to begin with, as soon as he started up, the fuel pickup would have been starved. If he made several attempts and stayed on the hill, it would run dry.
This was common in some early EFI vehicles which is why they went to an enclosed module. Imagen your truck stalling every time you took a corner with low fuel.
if it flopped over backwards it was his lack of driving skill.
As for traction control, one thing people need to realize is, its more designed for adverse conditions and mild off road. Looking at that picture, I would have disabled it before attempting anything like that.
I saw this issue starting with the last gen of Jeep Rubicon and believe it or not, the H-1 hummer. The vehicles were way more capable then the drivers. All these mods mean are "you get into more trouble". I'm my opinion, most people should not have heavily modified vehicles unless they have some experience under there belt. If my vehicle cut out on something like that, I would have been able to bring it back down without issue. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy here. Cant fix stupid.
Not all of the TC can be turned off. The RSC stays put. And the ABS actuating the brakes to limit wheelspin and allow active TC, still exists in "Sport Mode".
When my TC is being a pita, I simply have no grip. Wrong tires, wrong approach, not enough lockers engaged. It's rarely a problem If I'm doing my part. The active TC causes massive rear axle tramp sometimes. Not to mention, lots of brake heat.
When my TC is being a pita, I simply have no grip. Wrong tires, wrong approach, not enough lockers engaged. It's rarely a problem If I'm doing my part. The active TC causes massive rear axle tramp sometimes. Not to mention, lots of brake heat.
Advocate I
It flopped to the driver's side, not backwards. The fuel issue is a good point though, and *if* that was the issue it shows how a lack of understanding *how* a vehicle actually works can be dangerous. Most just figure "why do I need to know how it works?"
The new Broncos have "GOAT" modes (yes, that's what they're called), including a Rock Crawl mode. In Rock Crawl it engages the front/rear lockers so I think it would not be using TC to brake wheels (since they're locked up). Again, I have no idea what mode they were in, and I also haven't found data on whether or not Rock Crawl (or other modes) allow unlimited wheelspin under power or not.
-TJ
Member III
This is why I prefer "torque vectoring" (brand name) where the wheel speed is controlled mostly in the diff not the brakes. The brake controlled system are a bit of of date but are cheaper to produce. Not knowing how Ford controls theirs, I would have hoped for the cost of the vehicle, it would have it. In traction control, the idea is to try to match wheel speed across all 4 wheels. How they accomplish it depends on who designed it. Whether it works properly or not is also an issue.
A bad hop when the front is vertical is going to be a bad day either way. Again, it gets down to knowing how to properly drive vs buying something and thinking the "technology" will save you.
I'm sure some of us have had the front climb and want to go over. The proper reaction is push in the clutch or let off the gas and roll back on the torque converter.
On vehicles with real low gears, the automatic trans will overcome the converter at idle and you wont roll back without putting it in neutral. On one of my Jeeps I had and auto with 4.88 and an atlas 3 speed transfercase. The low/low was 10-1. I had no roll back at all, the mid was 5-1 and if my idle was high sometimes it didn't roll back.
Member III
Reading the article, It was Fords fault, not the owner. Ford made him go up the incline (which appears to have a vertical shelf) at full throttle. Then Ford made the engine stall and flop over sideways. If he had a Jeep, it would have been his fault. Everyone knows Jeep technology wont save you.
Advocate I
Weird, everything I found on the internet says the opposite: it must be all his fault because the new Bronco can do NO WRONG.
-TJ
Member III
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I have been doing extreme rockcrawling for over three decades having grown up on a ranch at 9000 feet in Colorado. Very rarely have I ever used full throttle when geared down. People get antsy when it gets vertical and tend to want to go full throttle. Rarely is that the best answer.
The comment on going vertical and fuel starvation is very relevant. Never do any steep ups or downs without at least a half a tank or ideally more.
The comment on going vertical and fuel starvation is very relevant. Never do any steep ups or downs without at least a half a tank or ideally more.
Advocate I
Based on the video, he wasn't WOT trying to make the obstacle. I believe what is being reported is he was losing power/power was cutting and he even went WOT but still got no power. In other words, he was adding throttle to try to compensate for the power loss, as opposed to trying the obstacle at WOT.
-TJ
Member III
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Advocate I
Member III
This was the only article I found. This is where the full throttle came from. Sounds like he's trying to gain fame. Small snippit.
As he explains, he was at full throttle up an all-or-nothing obstacle when he suddenly lost power and, with it, any chance of avoiding a crash. It's unclear what caused the truck to shut off.
"So, for all of you that say 'Hey, why didn't you just stop and hold the brake or why didn't you steer it down?' Guys, engine died. Not much you can do at the top of an obstacle that's all go or nothing when the engine dies," BroncBuster said. "You can't steer it, you can't stop it, you've just got to ride it."
Also, I watched the video just now. He picked a bad line backing up. Got his steering crossed and that's what made him flop over. You can hear the spotter telling him to turn driver. Even if he lost engine which means no vacuum to the booster, at that slow of a speed he could have stopped it, no power steer you can still steer with engine off as long as your rolling. As for "full throttle" He was powering up some slickrock. You can hear the tires hopping. Too much throttle for the traction.
All driver error.
Advocate I
So you have info/data to prove it was the TC that cut power? It didn't starve for fuel or anything else?
-TJ
