Creating Community

[Polaris Overland]

Am I the only one who feels a bit like a second class member of OB just now?

I keep seeing facebook and Instagram posts from Michael and others in the US where they are having weekend meets with lectures on wilderness first aid, or remote recovery etc and yet here in the UK we do not get any of that. Our membership is pretty much a cyber membership and recently even that here in this region on FB seems to be thin on the ground.

Now I understand the US has the biggest membership and now OB has gone more commercial the biggest market I still feel we are not getting the full benefits of being a member.

OB West Europe as a region just doesn't work to me as to arrange any kind of inclusive meet up would require passports and ferries as a minimum. This results in sub regions and so on.

Rally Point is a great tool but currently the only rally point meet for the UK is a monthly recurring meet for a few hours. Monthly meets are all well and good and I am not criticising any that are going on but personally I cannot justify the cost of fuel and hours on the road for a few hours drinking coffee etc.
In order for a trip to the middle of the UK to be worthwhile personally I need it to be a weekend meet with possibly something like what happens in the US with a lecture or talk on an overlanding subject or even an arranged green lane trip.

So what are peoples thoughts, do we have the expertise and enthusiasm within the membership to put something together and would people be willing to pass on any expertise that they have.

I for instance would love to get some photography tips from some of the experts I'm sure we have in our group.

I am also happy to put something together on what we learned, experiences etc about our last 2 years overlanding if there is interest.

We have a number of Overland Shows in the UK every year. Can the OB Admins (Laird Kevin Titmarsh) get something arranged so we can get together at those possibly offering extra incentives for members to attend and making it a club meet up.

But even out with those shows surely we can have 1 or 2 OB specific events where we can meet up for a weekend, maybe even bring along non members to introduce them to the community and try and grow more.

Overland Bound is a community but right now I'm not so sure it feels that way!
Meet ups are the best way to reinforce the community otherwise if we stay as we are we are just another FB Group and not meeting the potential that OB was created for.

I am in the process of putting a North Coast 500 route trip for next year that hopefully some of you will be able to join me on.

As members we have invested financially in OB so now all we need to do is invest our time ensuring we get the benefit of our memberships.

I know we all have budsy lives working, family etc and it is totally unreasonable to expect everyone to turn up at every meet but with enough notice and planning I'm sure we can get a good turn out. I for one am happy to get more involved .

Hopefully this post will create some dialogue and get some kind of conversation and move us to where I hope we as a community want to be. It is not a criticism except in that we as members are all to blame for not involving ourselves more often.

Apologies its a bit long winded and thanks guys

 

[MA_Trooper]

I agree. OB is a community. And a lot of what you are seeing in the US is the community creating meetups. Though the Ambassadors are involved in that stuff to some degree, they are predominantly started and kept going by members. Your situation of needing passports and such to move about definitely complicates things a bit. It's a bit easier for us to move from state to state.

I think you qualify to put on a clinic yourself as far as overlanding topics go, being on the "road" for the last 2 years. I'm not really familiar with how many folks are in your immediate vicinity and how many would be able to attend but just doing a weekend camping trip is a great start. You may only have 5 or so people show up but that's how a lot of the meets start out.

I'm happy to chat with you about some of the things we have going in the US East Region if you want. Also, there is a doc on starting meetups, if that interests you. Here: https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/want-to-start-a-new-meet-up.20781/

Let me know if there is anything I can help with. I know I'm a bit far but I can make myself available for chats.

 

[blackntan]

My sentiments excatly as i posted on the other thred , we have an abundace of tracks and lanes. Ok some are not wilderness as the US OR AUSS but we can still do weekends highlands , north and south wales the lakes etc. A MUSTER IS CALLED FOR AND LONG OVER DUE I am in a bit of a situation at the moment and right now can not attend but In the furture will jump at the chance , You only get out what you put in , i would like to listern and see Other members set ups and experiences Overlanding abroad ANY ONE SEEN OR HEARD FROM OUR AMBASSADOR

 

[AdventureWithDanan]

If you're not happy with the community engagement in your area, the answer is simple...Create it. You have access to every tool that any other member does. Create a meetup and start.

If you're going out on an adventure all alone, then create a Rally Point and invite your local members.

If you're not sure what to do with your weekend, but you like coffee, or doughnuts, or pizza, create a meet and greet and invite some members.

Create the group that you feel you're not being a part of. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

 

[Kent R]

My sentiments excatly as i posted on the other thred , we have an abundace of tracks and lanes. Ok some are not wilderness as the US OR AUSS but we can still do weekends highlands , north and south wales the lakes etc. A MUSTER IS CALLED FOR AND LONG OVER DUE I am in a bit of a situation at the moment and right now can not attend but In the furture will jump at the chance , You only get out what you put in , i would like to listern and see Other members set ups and experiences Overlanding abroad ANY ONE SEEN OR HEARD FROM OUR AMBASSADOR

msg sent

 

[Polaris Overland]

I agree. OB is a community. And a lot of what you are seeing in the US is the community creating meetups. Though the Ambassadors are involved in that stuff to some degree, they are predominantly started and kept going by members. Your situation of needing passports and such to move about definitely complicates things a bit. It's a bit easier for us to move from state to state.

I think you qualify to put on a clinic yourself as far as overlanding topics go, being on the "road" for the last 2 years. I'm not really familiar with how many folks are in your immediate vicinity and how many would be able to attend but just doing a weekend camping trip is a great start. You may only have 5 or so people show up but that's how a lot of the meets start out.

I'm happy to chat with you about some of the things we have going in the US East Region if you want. Also, there is a doc on starting meetups, if that interests you. Here: https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/want-to-start-a-new-meet-up.20781/

Let me know if there is anything I can help with. I know I'm a bit far but I can make myself available for chats.

Thank you Chris for the constructive comments.
I am already in the process of planning having advertised on the OB West Europe FB Page a North Coast 500 (https://www.northcoast500.com/) trip which I hope will get some members to turn out even if only for some of it if not all.
Geographically our issues are very different from the US as stated but also wild camping is an issue so meets involve additional costs. Thats all fine as it's a personal choice to attend but will restrict how many times people will attend. But it would be nice to see OB have an official presence at the main Overland Shows here in the UK with an opportunity for members to get together, find out the latest news direct from OB Central Command and whilst we are not expecting something for nothing it makes sense for OB to sponsor get togethers at these events to welcome existing members / meet possible new members and sign up new members to create a bigger community.
I know from my overlanding experience meeting other overlanders definitely creates a stronger connection.
I will most definitely come to you for advise Chris and thanks for the offer

Dave

 

[Michael]

Am I the only one who feels a bit like a second class member of OB just now?

I keep seeing facebook and Instagram posts from Michael and others in the US where they are having weekend meets with lectures on wilderness first aid, or remote recovery etc and yet here in the UK we do not get any of that. Our membership is pretty much a cyber membership and recently even that here in this region on FB seems to be thin on the ground.

Now I understand the US has the biggest membership and now OB has gone more commercial the biggest market I still feel we are not getting the full benefits of being a member.

OB West Europe as a region just doesn't work to me as to arrange any kind of inclusive meet up would require passports and ferries as a minimum. This results in sub regions and so on.

Rally Point is a great tool but currently the only rally point meet for the UK is a monthly recurring meet for a few hours. Monthly meets are all well and good and I am not criticising any that are going on but personally I cannot justify the cost of fuel and hours on the road for a few hours drinking coffee etc.
In order for a trip to the middle of the UK to be worthwhile personally I need it to be a weekend meet with possibly something like what happens in the US with a lecture or talk on an overlanding subject or even an arranged green lane trip.

So what are peoples thoughts, do we have the expertise and enthusiasm within the membership to put something together and would people be willing to pass on any expertise that they have.

I for instance would love to get some photography tips from some of the experts I'm sure we have in our group.

I am also happy to put something together on what we learned, experiences etc about our last 2 years overlanding if there is interest.

We have a number of Overland Shows in the UK every year. Can the OB Admins (Laird Kevin Titmarsh) get something arranged so we can get together at those possibly offering extra incentives for members to attend and making it a club meet up.

But even out with those shows surely we can have 1 or 2 OB specific events where we can meet up for a weekend, maybe even bring along non members to introduce them to the community and try and grow more.

Overland Bound is a community but right now I'm not so sure it feels that way!
Meet ups are the best way to reinforce the community otherwise if we stay as we are we are just another FB Group and not meeting the potential that OB was created for.

I am in the process of putting a North Coast 500 route trip for next year that hopefully some of you will be able to join me on.

As members we have invested financially in OB so now all we need to do is invest our time ensuring we get the benefit of our memberships.

I know we all have budsy lives working, family etc and it is totally unreasonable to expect everyone to turn up at every meet but with enough notice and planning I'm sure we can get a good turn out. I for one am happy to get more involved .

Hopefully this post will create some dialogue and get some kind of conversation and move us to where I hope we as a community want to be. It is not a criticism except in that we as members are all to blame for not involving ourselves more often.

Apologies its a bit long winded and thanks guysView attachment 78310

Hi guys,

I'm a @Polaris Overland fan. Really glad to see your post. How can we help?

So this doesn't come off as defensive, let me just start off by saying Europe hasn't been great for a long time. Not the UK, or Scotland, or Germany...Europe! It's one of those internal aches I have because I don't feel I have the resources or ability to "fix" it. To this end, I am open to suggestions. Not throwing my hands up at all - I would LOVE to make it better.

As a single point of contact, we support the community. It's our number one goal. We are realizing the full potential over time, and I am as excited as ever for what we have in the works. Most of our resources go into improving software tools and making communication between members easier. As an organization, we take feedback from our members, and then implement it through the OLB software platform. We are about to release a new version of Rally Point making meetup creation even easier.

If this thread turns into the idea-generation thread I hope it does, please think of scaleable solutions. This is the only way to make recommendations succeed. Also, consider your neighbor regions and countries. What's good for you, might not be good for them. A director for every country also does not work due to scalability issues. The Regional Director role is quite difficult, requiring the director to run the region as the President or CEO of that region, with support from HQ. It's a huge job.

Some things we are creating to help a bit include - the Director/Representative roles for regions, the "How to host a meetup" documentation, and a series of recommended training programs we are preparing for OLB worldwide - where individual regions can create meetups focused on specific training topics.

Please let me know how we can help and support our family and community in Europe.

All the best,

M

 

[Polaris Overland]

If you're not happy with the community engagement in your area, the answer is simple...Create it. You have access to every tool that any other member does. Create a meetup and start.

If you're going out on an adventure all alone, then create a Rally Point and invite your local members.

If you're not sure what to do with your weekend, but you like coffee, or doughnuts, or pizza, create a meet and greet and invite some members.

Create the group that you feel you're not being a part of. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

Whilst I agree in part to what you are saying my feedback so far is your response is exactly why some members are leaving and setting up their own groups.

Surely that is not what OB wants or is it a case of once membership is paid you are on your own.
Regions have ambassadors and surely part of that means they are proactive in creating the community and this requires support and assistance from OB Central Command. Without the support and assistance from OB then they might as well be just a member.
The position also requires clarity from OB on changes and updates so the ambassador has the latest information required to support his regional members and also act as a gateway for feedback from members to OB Command. Clearly somewhere along the line someone somewhere has not been listening to feedback from the OB Regions out with the US and I have messages from other regions not just West Europe.

 

[Polaris Overland]

Hi guys,

I'm a @Polaris Overland fan. Really glad to see your post. How can we help?

So this doesn't come off as defensive, let me just start off by saying Europe hasn't been great for a long time. Not the UK, or Scotland, or Germany...Europe! It's one of those internal aches I have because I don't feel I have the resources or ability to "fix" it. To this end, I am open to suggestions. Not throwing my hands up at all - I would LOVE to make it better.

As a single point of contact, we support the community. It's our number one goal. We are realizing the full potential over time, and I am as excited as ever for what we have in the works. Most of our resources go into improving software tools and making communication between members easier. As an organization, we take feedback from our members, and then implement it through the OLB software platform. We are about to release a new version of Rally Point making meetup creation even easier.

If this thread turns into the idea-generation thread I hope it does, please think of scaleable solutions. This is the only way to make recommendations succeed. Also, consider your neighbor regions and countries. What's good for you, might not be good for them. A director for every country also does not work due to scalability issues. The Regional Director role is quite difficult, requiring the director to run the region as the President or CEO of that region, with support from HQ. It's a huge job.

Some things we are creating to help a bit include - the Director/Representative roles for regions, the "How to host a meetup" documentation, and a series of recommended training programs we are preparing for OLB worldwide - where individual regions can create meetups focused on specific training topics.

Please let me know how we can help and support our family and community in Europe.

All the best,

M

Michael,

Thank you for the message of support and it is refreshing to see that you admit to having a problem and I don't evy your position.
So the next question from me is what do you need from us to make it work.

We can sit and fire a million suggestions to you, some will be useful, some completely nuts and some will cause a pause for thinking maybe out of the box.

Perhaps if you have a known problem in Europe maybe a member satisfaction type document could be sent out to the European Members to see what they are thinking and what is the best way forward. This could be done directly from yourselves or through your Ambassadors however I do feel from experience you may find some responses are character assissinations of the ambassadors based on personal disputes rather than a real issue. Also this would need to be handled correctly to make Regions out with Europe feel they are not being heard.

Im an earlyish member of OB and I still feel OB has the right ethos but here in Europe it needs a bit of a kick start and help as currently I'm seeing little growth, limited interaction on the forums or Facebook Pages and if anything people are telling me they are leaving to do their own thing.

So lets try to work together and make it work

Dave

 

[blackntan]

It’s a uk trait hard to explain to others we are stand offish wether we admit it or not Tribal call it what you want But if you join a club JOIN IN Next spring / summer.
There are several great opportunity’s to attend Meeting at organised events were camping is available making it easier to organise , along with the already popular land rover, 4x4 , overland events there are
Bushcraft
Gamefairs
Country shows
Were meets could take place up and down the country making it a bit easier to piggy back on events BnT

 

[Jesper Løwe]

Michael,

Thank you for the message of support and it is refreshing to see that you admit to having a problem and I don't evy your position.
So the next question from me is what do you need from us to make it work.

We can sit and fire a million suggestions to you, some will be useful, some completely nuts and some will cause a pause for thinking maybe out of the box.

Perhaps if you have a known problem in Europe maybe a member satisfaction type document could be sent out to the European Members to see what they are thinking and what is the best way forward. This could be done directly from yourselves or through your Ambassadors however I do feel from experience you may find some responses are character assissinations of the ambassadors based on personal disputes rather than a real issue. Also this would need to be handled correctly to make Regions out with Europe feel they are not being heard.

Im an earlyish member of OB and I still feel OB has the right ethos but here in Europe it needs a bit of a kick start and help as currently I'm seeing little growth, limited interaction on the forums or Facebook Pages and if anything people are telling me they are leaving to do their own thing.

So lets try to work together and make it work

Dave

I´m very new to the OB site, and community, but i think that Dave is on to something.

Maybe we could conduct a small survey, with a few questions, and create a idea bank for members to enter ideas in, and read from.
As written on FB i could arrange a OB Weekend meetup in Denmark or southen sweden, and in the fall maybe invite som friends who are currently traveling the globe in their Scania Truck and Range Rover.

Still I think that the region aspect of europe has to "re thought" as there are multiple factors that differ from US that is different.

1. We have bordes which in Western Europe isn´t a big issue
2. Ferries (cheapest ferrie for me to Sweden is 36$ not a biggie either..)
3. Fuel a Gallon of Diesel cost on avg. 3.5$ in the us and in Denmark that calculates to 5.6$ for what would be a Gallon of Diesel.

All of these together would sadly make ME not go to the Northen Netherlands for the winter event, how ever much i would love to.

My suggestion is smaller regions, and more member per region. :-) easyer said then done, i know but if we work togehter with OB team and @Michael, i´m sure i could be done

So lets give it a go, and make Europe OB the best we can.

/Lowe

 

[Polaris Overland]

Great to see there is a positive response to making things right for everyone and working together to resolve things.
Now hopefully we can turn this resolve into action

 

[MA_Trooper]

Good stuff, @Jesper Løwe and @Polaris Overland
I like playing devils advocate so I'm going to assume that role for a moment (I'm not against reorganizing the regions in Europe a little bit. But I'm also not convinced it's the root of the problem). Those three points are definitely road blocks and put all together can be pretty restrictive. But only one of them really looks to be a major difference.

These are all travel concerns. And the crossing borders one is fairly unique to you guys. I can be up in Canada in a few hours time and it's quick and easy to get through security there but I live in Mass. Most of the US is much further to the CA or Mexico boarder and that's not an issue for them. It's no secret that the US (and Australia for that matter) is a massive country. So I don't think it should surprise you to hear that a lot of the same complaints (minus the border complaint) were flying around in the beginning of our regions too. The regions are huge. If we were to use travel concerns as the main guideline for creating regions then Texas would have 5 regions of it's own. Seriously, its 13 hours to get from south Texas up into the panhandle. In my region, I have a 12 hour drive from my house to West Virginia (the furthest state in the region from me) And I'm in Mass. There are 3 states further north from me and Maine is pretty dang big so for them we are talking an extra 2-6 hours more. So for most folks in the region, its a long, expensive drive that includes multi day travel on top of whatever camping the meetup has. This was a giant hurdle and a hurdle that pops up from time to time. But we've worked hard to overcome it.

Now I'm not saying the travel situations are identical. I'm not naive enough to suggest that. There are differences. But I think the same or similar solutions can be applied to alleviate the sore spots for Europe. Actually, I think regardless of region restructuring or leaving them the same, the solutions we have been employing here in the US will NEED to be applied or the same tensions and issues will persist.
Alright, so how are combating this and achieving community that gets together?

1) Meetups are small, frequent, and hyper local.
Members are finding 5, 10 or 20 other members who live close by. They have a set day/time/location that the get together every month. And they just hang out, look at each others trucks, have a beer/coffee, help each other plan trips, etc... Sometimes they evolve from there if the meetup is successful. That's when you start seeing them bring in Pros for training weekends or they plan trips for all of them to go on together.

2) The 1 or 2 big region meets per year.
Nothing wrong with doing more than that, but the regions don't actually have major long weekend events that are more of big events than meetups more than a couple times. The logistics are tough, the distances to travel for most are huge and most members can't get enough time off from work to attend multiple events like that without giving up their normal family trips or stay-cations. The Ambassador, alongside a few assistants or helpful members typically make this happen.

3) The relationship between Ambassador and Members evolved (at least here in the east).
This one was a big one, and its still evolving a bit and things are still smoothing out. At first, everyone was excited to have an ambassador because it meant, to them, that someone was going to plan everything for them and make all the meetups happen. Joke's on them, I have a full time job and a young family. HA! There were some growing pains. But I recruited some folks to help out on the local level. Because it just wasn't feasible for me to plan meetups for every county in every state. And I definitely can't attend them all. Right now I have 2 official assistants. They are amazingly helpful. The ambassador role is huge and takes a great deal of work and that's before I even get around to planning meetups and trips. So I brought in my 2 assistants (and more will come as members emerge as leaders in there local areas). Apart from those assistants, we have several members who are stepping up to make monthly meetups happen in their area. The important thing here is that in order for community to work, the members need to own the community. There are leaders who handle logistical and administrative functions. And plan a few things and help members plan other things. But the members have to own the community.

This is getting excessively long so I will try to wrap this up. The three things I mentioned are going to be key no matter what happens with the regions of Europe. I personally lean toward implementing those principles in a big way, and really staying on top of them, before reorganizing the regions. But that's not my decision to make and I understand that there are some other nuances and factors to consider. I'm glad you fellas are having this conversation with us. We need some meaningful discussion to occur between HQ, the current ambassadors, and the folks of Europe as we address these issues.
I've inserted some paragraphs from a doc I put together for some members who wanted to start some monthly meetups a couple years ago. It addresses 1) above in a little more detail. Feel free to skip if your eyes are tired and crossed and you just don't have time for this saga to continue.

*this all should fall in line with the new official doc that Kent shared. If anything doesn't ignore it

"What is a meetup? It's whatever you make it. Most of the time its meeting at a local bar, coffee shop or restaurant to sit down and chat about everything under the sun. Sometimes it's a Saturday picnic at a park to get the whole family out and meet other adventurous families or a trail run/camping trip. Sometimes everyone is busy and a month/week gets skipped. But at its core it is a very casual way to meet other folks in the community, form bonds and build relationships with others who share the adventurous spirit of Overland Bound. What this does, is cause greater participation in the larger OB sponsored events because the barrier of not knowing folks is gone and you want to have fun with the friends you already have and the ones you know you will make. As a side effect of members getting together regularly to chat, weekend camping trips and trail rides often get planned by a few who may not have otherwise planned something."

"There are two schools of thought on choosing a meetup spot. The first is to have the same spot every time as it makes it easy for folks to know where they will be and creates a consistency of folks gathering. In places that have fewer members who are spread out this can be limiting. That is where the second comes into play. A rotation of locations can be helpful in getting the most people possible involved, not everyone can attend every time but the folks on the fringes get a chance to attend sometimes."


"Parameters to follow (though they can be vague and loose, these are the bare minimum for success):
-Meetups should be within an hour of the majority folks (some people will have to travel further, a harsh reality to some and this will also depend on participation).
-Everyone is welcome. This isn't a boys club. Bring the family.
-Pick one place or two places to alternate as regular locations.
-Same day every month (third Thursday, first Friday, etc…) Or biweekly or weekly. But monthly at the very least."


Sorry again for the novel.
-Chris

 

[Polaris Overland]

Good stuff, @Jesper Løwe and @Polaris Overland
I like playing devils advocate so I'm going to assume that role for a moment (I'm not against reorganizing the regions in Europe a little bit. But I'm also not convinced it's the root of the problem). Those three points are definitely road blocks and put all together can be pretty restrictive. But only one of them really looks to be a major difference.

These are all travel concerns. And the crossing borders one is fairly unique to you guys. I can be up in Canada in a few hours time and it's quick and easy to get through security there but I live in Mass. Most of the US is much further to the CA or Mexico boarder and that's not an issue for them. It's no secret that the US (and Australia for that matter) is a massive country. So I don't think it should surprise you to hear that a lot of the same complaints (minus the border complaint) were flying around in the beginning of our regions too. The regions are huge. If we were to use travel concerns as the main guideline for creating regions then Texas would have 5 regions of it's own. Seriously, its 13 hours to get from south Texas up into the panhandle. In my region, I have a 12 hour drive from my house to West Virginia (the furthest state in the region from me) And I'm in Mass. There are 3 states further north from me and Maine is pretty dang big so for them we are talking an extra 2-6 hours more. So for most folks in the region, its a long, expensive drive that includes multi day travel on top of whatever camping the meetup has. This was a giant hurdle and a hurdle that pops up from time to time. But we've worked hard to overcome it.

Now I'm not saying the travel situations are identical. I'm not naive enough to suggest that. There are differences. But I think the same or similar solutions can be applied to alleviate the sore spots for Europe. Actually, I think regardless of region restructuring or leaving them the same, the solutions we have been employing here in the US will NEED to be applied or the same tensions and issues will persist.
Alright, so how are combating this and achieving community that gets together?

1) Meetups are small, frequent, and hyper local.
Members are finding 5, 10 or 20 other members who live close by. They have a set day/time/location that the get together every month. And they just hang out, look at each others trucks, have a beer/coffee, help each other plan trips, etc... Sometimes they evolve from there if the meetup is successful. That's when you start seeing them bring in Pros for training weekends or they plan trips for all of them to go on together.

2) The 1 or 2 big region meets per year.
Nothing wrong with doing more than that, but the regions don't actually have major long weekend events that are more of big events than meetups more than a couple times. The logistics are tough, the distances to travel for most are huge and most members can't get enough time off from work to attend multiple events like that without giving up their normal family trips or stay-cations. The Ambassador, alongside a few assistants or helpful members typically make this happen.

3) The relationship between Ambassador and Members evolved (at least here in the east).
This one was a big one, and its still evolving a bit and things are still smoothing out. At first, everyone was excited to have an ambassador because it meant, to them, that someone was going to plan everything for them and make all the meetups happen. Joke's on them, I have a full time job and a young family. HA! There were some growing pains. But I recruited some folks to help out on the local level. Because it just wasn't feasible for me to plan meetups for every county in every state. And I definitely can't attend them all. Right now I have 2 official assistants. They are amazingly helpful. The ambassador role is huge and takes a great deal of work and that's before I even get around to planning meetups and trips. So I brought in my 2 assistants (and more will come as members emerge as leaders in there local areas). Apart from those assistants, we have several members who are stepping up to make monthly meetups happen in their area. The important thing here is that in order for community to work, the members need to own the community. There are leaders who handle logistical and administrative functions. And plan a few things and help members plan other things. But the members have to own the community.

This is getting excessively long so I will try to wrap this up. The three things I mentioned are going to be key no matter what happens with the regions of Europe. I personally lean toward implementing those principles in a big way, and really staying on top of them, before reorganizing the regions. But that's not my decision to make and I understand that there are some other nuances and factors to consider. I'm glad you fellas are having this conversation with us. We need some meaningful discussion to occur between HQ, the current ambassadors, and the folks of Europe as we address these issues.
I've inserted some paragraphs from a doc I put together for some members who wanted to start some monthly meetups a couple years ago. It addresses 1) above in a little more detail. Feel free to skip if your eyes are tired and crossed and you just don't have time for this saga to continue.

*this all should fall in line with the new official doc that Kent shared. If anything doesn't ignore it

"What is a meetup? It's whatever you make it. Most of the time its meeting at a local bar, coffee shop or restaurant to sit down and chat about everything under the sun. Sometimes it's a Saturday picnic at a park to get the whole family out and meet other adventurous families or a trail run/camping trip. Sometimes everyone is busy and a month/week gets skipped. But at its core it is a very casual way to meet other folks in the community, form bonds and build relationships with others who share the adventurous spirit of Overland Bound. What this does, is cause greater participation in the larger OB sponsored events because the barrier of not knowing folks is gone and you want to have fun with the friends you already have and the ones you know you will make. As a side effect of members getting together regularly to chat, weekend camping trips and trail rides often get planned by a few who may not have otherwise planned something."

"There are two schools of thought on choosing a meetup spot. The first is to have the same spot every time as it makes it easy for folks to know where they will be and creates a consistency of folks gathering. In places that have fewer members who are spread out this can be limiting. That is where the second comes into play. A rotation of locations can be helpful in getting the most people possible involved, not everyone can attend every time but the folks on the fringes get a chance to attend sometimes."


"Parameters to follow (though they can be vague and loose, these are the bare minimum for success):
-Meetups should be within an hour of the majority folks (some people will have to travel further, a harsh reality to some and this will also depend on participation).
-Everyone is welcome. This isn't a boys club. Bring the family.
-Pick one place or two places to alternate as regular locations.
-Same day every month (third Thursday, first Friday, etc…) Or biweekly or weekly. But monthly at the very least."


Sorry again for the novel.
-Chris

Thank you Chris that is really helpful and I agree on a number of things.

Personally I'm not specifically up for changing the geography of regions however I do believe there is a good argument for sub divisions or "organisations" to be set up within those Regions. I also believe that the "leaders" of those sub divisions should be given an official voice and support the ambassador or Director as I see the new term is being used.

The leaders of the sub divisions along with the ambassador / director should run the region for the benefit of the members in the way any satellite company is run when remote from head office with the Region Director dealing directly with Head Office.

This then resolves a number of issues:-

Firstly each member feels represented within OB which rightly or wrongly is not the case at the moment.

Secondly the workload heaped solely on the director is reduced as leaders can support the director and be his eyes and ears on the ground.

Thirdly local leaders can argue / support local ideas and issues on a more personal basis and where needed obtain support from the director or OB.

Absolutely I understand how big the US is having worked there many times and yes most people at best can only manage one big meet up per year and in the UK this is usually one of the Big Overland Shows. That is why I think OB should have an official presence at as many Overland Shows as possible.

Cost is an issue, our fuel is about double the price you guys pay in the US and if you are in an older overland vehicle like our Land Rover our fuel economy is not much better that a big US Gas Guzzler.
Another issue can be languages. Again rightly or wrongly most Brits know only English so rely on other EU countries within the regions to speak English. It's not a huge problem but with certain cultures this can cause friction.

My hope now is to try and see if there is support to set up local organisations that will work with the new Region Ambassador / Director once appointed.

In our case for the UK I would be looking along the lines of Scotland, England North, England South, Wales and Ireland.
Those groups can then arrange local meet ups as required but OB still needs to bring more to the equation otherwise OB is not offering any more for our paid membership in real terms than any other group except a fancy badge.

For example I am a member of Overlandsphere and an Admin on their Asia platform on account of our trip to Mongolia this year. There is no cost for being a member and it is run as a free not for profit organisation offering practical advice and a platform for overlanders to connect. Whilst on our trip I was in the Overlandsphere Asia Whatsapp group that allows you to communicate in real time with other overlanders on route so you get up to date and current border info or visa info etc.

Overlandsphere attend a number of shows here in the UK. They give seminars to other overlanders (We did 2 on their behalf at the April Overland Show on Morocco and Visa Issues for the Mongolia Trip). Again there is no charge. They usually obtain free or heavily discounted rates for members to attend the shows and usually 1 night there is some sort of social event. Sure some people like free things such as stickers etc but not everyone. Personally I want to believe that what we are getting is value and not just for a paid membership but also for the cost in time and effort. If that is not being seen then people will naturally migrate to other groups and OB will be the poorer for it.

I also did the Morocco part of our 8 month Big Trip 2017 with other members from Overlandsphere and as a direct result of that trip 3 sets of us Overlanders agreed to meet up in Mongolia for summer this year which we did.

Again all my observations and comments are my own but based on feedback I have received and given in the hope that we can make OB better.

 

[MA_Trooper]

Thank you Chris that is really helpful and I agree on a number of things.

Personally I'm not specifically up for changing the geography of regions however I do believe there is a good argument for sub divisions or "organisations" to be set up within those Regions. I also believe that the "leaders" of those sub divisions should be given an official voice and support the ambassador or Director as I see the new term is being used.

The leaders of the sub divisions along with the ambassador / director should run the region for the benefit of the members in the way any satellite company is run when remote from head office with the Region Director dealing directly with Head Office.

This then resolves a number of issues:-

Firstly each member feels represented within OB which rightly or wrongly is not the case at the moment.

Secondly the workload heaped solely on the director is reduced as leaders can support the director and be his eyes and ears on the ground.

Thirdly local leaders can argue / support local ideas and issues on a more personal basis and where needed obtain support from the director or OB.

Absolutely I understand how big the US is having worked there many times and yes most people at best can only manage one big meet up per year and in the UK this is usually one of the Big Overland Shows. That is why I think OB should have an official presence at as many Overland Shows as possible.

Cost is an issue, our fuel is about double the price you guys pay in the US and if you are in an older overland vehicle like our Land Rover our fuel economy is not much better that a big US Gas Guzzler.
Another issue can be languages. Again rightly or wrongly most Brits know only English so rely on other EU countries within the regions to speak English. It's not a huge problem but with certain cultures this can cause friction.

My hope now is to try and see if there is support to set up local organisations that will work with the new Region Ambassador / Director once appointed.

In our case for the UK I would be looking along the lines of Scotland, England North, England South, Wales and Ireland.
Those groups can then arrange local meet ups as required but OB still needs to bring more to the equation otherwise OB is not offering any more for our paid membership in real terms than any other group except a fancy badge.

For example I am a member of Overlandsphere and an Admin on their Asia platform on account of our trip to Mongolia this year. There is no cost for being a member and it is run as a free not for profit organisation offering practical advice and a platform for overlanders to connect. Whilst on our trip I was in the Overlandsphere Asia Whatsapp group that allows you to communicate in real time with other overlanders on route so you get up to date and current border info or visa info etc.

Overlandsphere attend a number of shows here in the UK. They give seminars to other overlanders (We did 2 on their behalf at the April Overland Show on Morocco and Visa Issues for the Mongolia Trip). Again there is no charge. They usually obtain free or heavily discounted rates for members to attend the shows and usually 1 night there is some sort of social event. Sure some people like free things such as stickers etc but not everyone. Personally I want to believe that what we are getting is value and not just for a paid membership but also for the cost in time and effort. If that is not being seen then people will naturally migrate to other groups and OB will be the poorer for it.

I also did the Morocco part of our 8 month Big Trip 2017 with other members from Overlandsphere and as a direct result of that trip 3 sets of us Overlanders agreed to meet up in Mongolia for summer this year which we did.

Again all my observations and comments are my own but based on feedback I have received and given in the hope that we can make OB better.

Great info here. And I think we are pretty well aligned. In the east, it's up to me as Director/Ambassador how many and where my reps/assistants (in an official capacity) are located. A lot of freedom is granted to me as far as how I "run" operations for the region. And I think the same would be true for whoever takes up regions in Europe. I have a direct line with HQ for matters involving them but everything else is handled between me, my reps/assistants and the members. So the things we do and how we accomplish them are a little different from other regions. We have cultural differences, travel distances blah blah you get the point, from other regions even within the US. I expect that to be the case globally.

I agree that OB needs to have a presence at large events in Europe. We only just started doing this beyond Expo west her in the states last year. But its proven to be beneficial. I know that with the right representation (via director and other volunteers) that Michael and Corrie would be comfortable having folks represent OB at those events. Last year a couple other ambassadors and myself ran the booth at Expo East. It was a raging success. I'm not familiar with Overlandsphere so I will check that out. No reason we can't adopt techniques that are working there to improve our community here.

Like I said before, I'm not opposed to some light reorganization of the regions where needed. But I think we are hitting on the root causes here and it seems that making these changes/implementing some things that the ambassadors are finding successful here could could solve a great majority of the headaches. And then we can evaluate the regions geography and make minimal changes. Weve already re-orged the regions in europe once. So that is why im skeptical of a re-org right now.

 

[AdventureWithDanan]

Whilst I agree in part to what you are saying my feedback so far is your response is exactly why some members are leaving and setting up their own groups.

Surely that is not what OB wants or is it a case of once membership is paid you are on your own.
Regions have ambassadors and surely part of that means they are proactive in creating the community and this requires support and assistance from OB Central Command. Without the support and assistance from OB then they might as well be just a member.
The position also requires clarity from OB on changes and updates so the ambassador has the latest information required to support his regional members and also act as a gateway for feedback from members to OB Command. Clearly somewhere along the line someone somewhere has not been listening to feedback from the OB Regions out with the US and I have messages from other regions not just West Europe.

Absolutely, and I don't disagree with you on any of these points. My reply was mostly to blackntan. I should have specified. My only point was that no member has to wait to create something. That's why the Rally Point software exists and why it's available to all members. But of course Ambassadors are available and should be available to any member that needs help to create Rally Points and get togethers.

In my region there are 9 states and of course I'm unable to be there for even half of what occurs, but I always make myself available to help my region. It comes mostly in showing how to create Rally Points and support on what to do.

 

[blackntan]

Absolutely, and I don't disagree with you on any of these points. My reply was mostly to blackntan. I should have specified. My only point was that no member has to wait to create something. That's why the Rally Point software exists and why it's available to all members. But of course Ambassadors are available and should be available to any member that needs help to create Rally Points and get togethers.

In my region there are 9 states and of course I'm unable to be there for even half of what occurs, but I always make myself available to help my region. It comes mostly in showing how to create Rally Points and support on what to do.

I already do. About a baker doz of Outdoors shows a year bud 4x4 and out doors oriented , My comments were to the wider uk membership. And as the ambassador had been put in place. Without any. Imput from the uk members Ive sat back and watched to see what was on offer , no offence to kev but being in norfolk did not help him And with all respect to you chris How can being devils advocate from thousands of miles away be conducive to encouraging the west euroupe ob. , the uk its self need a scotish rep , mid england , and a southern rep or wales not forgetting the emrald isle , dont try to work out the tribes of the uk. People have tried and failed for thousands of years.

 

[MA_Trooper]

I already do. About a baker doz of Outdoors shows a year bud 4x4 and out doors oriented , My comments were to the wider uk membership. And as the ambassador had been put in place. Without any. Imput from the uk members Ive sat back and watched to see what was on offer , no offence to kev but being in norfolk did not help him And with all respect to you chris How can being devils advocate from thousands of miles away be conducive to encouraging the west euroupe ob. , the uk its self need a scotish rep , mid england , and a southern rep or wales not forgetting the emrald isle , dont try to work out the tribes of the uk. People have tried and failed for thousands of years.

It seems you read devils advocate and stopped there. Perhaps finishing the post will show you I put some thought into my comments instead of just sitting there crapping on ideas. And as it turns out. Polaris and I share a lot of the same thoughts. Never once did I say or imply I wanted to work out the tribes of the UK. I offered input on things we've employed to solve very similar issues that were discussed.

 

[blackntan]

It seems you read devils advocate and stopped there. Perhaps finishing the post will show you I put some thought into my comments instead of just sitting there crapping on ideas. And as it turns out. Polaris and I share a lot of the same thoughts. Never once did I say or imply I wanted to work out the tribes of the UK. I offered input on things we've employed to solve very similar issues that were discussed.

Cool your jets bud no ones is being confrontational and i read it all , i was mearly pointing out the difficulty of running meets from your location , The tribes comment was humour I keep forgetting i have to explain things like that , its quite simple really we have. Four nations in one nation who have a love hate relationship who dont like being told what to do by one another , any one from out side is looked down on if you drive an landrover you can usually make friends in any of the afore mentiond counrtys.
Make Polaris scotland rep , nickburt mid england , and defender kieth southern uk Bobs yeh uncle. ( translation. Problem solved )

 

[MA_Trooper]

Cool your jets bud no ones is being confrontational and i read it all , i was mearly pointing out the difficulty of running meets from your location , The tribes comment was humour I keep forgetting i have to explain things like that , its quite simple really we have. Four nations in one nation who have a love hate relationship who dont like being told what to do by one another , any one from out side is looked down on if you drive an landrover you can usually make friends in any of the afore mentiond counrtys.
Make Polaris scotland rep , nickburt mid england , and defender kieth southern uk Bobs yeh uncle. ( translation. Problem solved )

No jets are on. You would know if jets were on, they don't call us Mass-holes for nothing. Just wanted to be sure you understand I'm not trying to orchestrate anything in Europe.