Creating Community

[blackntan]

No jets are on. You would know if jets were on, they don't call us Mass-holes for nothing. Just wanted to be sure you understand I'm not trying to orchestrate anything in Europe.

We have got two new flat tops be carefull now.

 

[AdventureWithDanan]

I already do. About a baker doz of Outdoors shows a year bud 4x4 and out doors oriented , My comments were to the wider uk membership. And as the ambassador had been put in place. Without any. Imput from the uk members Ive sat back and watched to see what was on offer , no offence to kev but being in norfolk did not help him And with all respect to you chris How can being devils advocate from thousands of miles away be conducive to encouraging the west euroupe ob. , the uk its self need a scotish rep , mid england , and a southern rep or wales not forgetting the emrald isle , dont try to work out the tribes of the uk. People have tried and failed for thousands of years.

Hahaha, no no, I’m quite sure that the tribes can all be worked out in a few minutes of internet chat!

And I’m glad to hear that you put on lots of events.

 

[blackntan]

Hahaha, no no, I’m quite sure that the tribes can all be worked out in a few minutes of internet chat!

And I’m glad to hear that you put on lots of events.

Glad theres some one with a sence of humour dan , i dont put them on dan i attend allthough my finger prints are on some quite succesfull shows in the past , orginising meets aint a problem , The OB membership can just piggy back on many already well estabilished. Veneus up and down the uk , its the rep side that needs commitment and a bit of team leading spirit , getting people to do talks etc and the odd work shop i think is down to getting to know the membership and who has experience and would like to share it , we already have a Knowledge bank in a few of the members who post on the uk section , We might not have moab or the old tele road but we can throw a few week ends together Around this little group of isles She still has afew secrets to share.

 

[Polaris Overland]

Come on guys so far the combined feedback from our region FB and the OB Forums is 8 responses and those seem to be from the more regular posters.

We need everyone to be involved so we can have an "inclusive community" which I am assuming is what you bought into when you paid for the memberships.

Please help out to make improvements, I'm not an ambassador or rep just a concerned member who thinks we could be and should be doing a lot better.

 

[blackntan]

Come on guys so far the combined feedback from our region FB and the OB Forums is 8 responses and those seem to be from the more regular posters.

We need everyone to be involved so we can have an "inclusive community" which I am assuming is what you bought into when you paid for the memberships.

Please help out to make improvements, I'm not an ambassador or rep just a concerned member who thinks we could be and should be doing a lot better.

. Lead a horse to water !!

 

[Polaris Overland]

. Lead a horse to water !!

Come on help me out here

 

[Aaron Boyer]

Brilliant to see this being dealt with, as it does seem that here in the UK we are a bit isolated from other lovers of overlanding, or maybe this is because I'm quite new to it. However it would be brilliant if there were some local get togethers monlthy or even a couple of times a year to get to know fellow overlanders that aren't a million miles away. Also living in England is a pain for getting out there and wild camping somewhere stunning purely due to it being frowned abon or (illegal) as some might say. yet I'm sure if we went remote enough in England this wouldn't be a problem. Personally at the moment I mainly go on camping trips but my passion would be to get out there and explore much like you guys do over in the US and placed like aus and Africa where getting remote is easy and wild camping is no problem at all.
I agree with you there Dave about sub regions in the UK, as it would be a lot easier to reach the monthly meet ups. Anything I can do to help down in the southern England branch then I'd be happy to start something off on here, (yet I am still trying to find my way round the forum [emoji16])

 

[Jesper Løwe]

Come on help me out here

Not based in the UK, but can OB not get a "personal message" out to all members registered in the UK?

 

[MA_Trooper]

Not based in the UK, but can OB not get a "personal message" out to all members registered in the UK?

technically, yes it can. If you go to the member map you can draw a radius and send a pm to everyone in that radius. It is currently limited but in certain important cases I think @Michael can lift that restriction.

 

[Polaris Overland]

technically, yes it can. If you go to the member map you can draw a radius and send a pm to everyone in that radius. It is currently limited but in certain important cases I think @Michael can lift that restriction.

To me it makes sense that as a minimum the Ambassador / Director of a region should be able to send out messages to all the members in that region without having to select each one individually.
If the idea is that the Ambassador runs his region he needs to be able to communicate with all in that region directly passing on pertinent information and giving / taking feedback. FB Forum is fine but often becomes too much of a free for all and following threads and getting the useful information can be difficult.

 

[MA_Trooper]

To me it makes sense that as a minimum the Ambassador / Director of a region should be able to send out messages to all the members in that region without having to select each one individually.
If the idea is that the Ambassador runs his region he needs to be able to communicate with all in that region directly passing on pertinent information and giving / taking feedback. FB Forum is fine but often becomes too much of a free for all and following threads and getting the useful information can be difficult.

are you talking about using email vs the pm function here?

the map function I mentioned would start a group pm with everyone. You could set it for no responses and in this case just use it to notify the group of your poll.

 

[blackntan]

This is getting a bit hi tech ,

TO any one who wants to meet like minded people who like driving trucks filled
With camping gear and gadgets, like cooking on fires and sleeping in tents in all weathers , roaming far foreighn lands or dream of it , THE UK BRANCH OF THE OVERLAND BOUND ,COM. WOULD LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO THIER SPRING
MEET AND GREET AT STRATFORD OVERLAND SHOW 2019 (stratford racecourse) . FUTHER ARANGEMENTS WILL BE POSTED
Who ever turns up is interested

BRING BEER

 

[AdventureWithDanan]

To me it makes sense that as a minimum the Ambassador / Director of a region should be able to send out messages to all the members in that region without having to select each one individually.
If the idea is that the Ambassador runs his region he needs to be able to communicate with all in that region directly passing on pertinent information and giving / taking feedback. FB Forum is fine but often becomes too much of a free for all and following threads and getting the useful information can be difficult.

Ambassadors / Directors do have permissions to send a group message to a larger radius than other members for just this reason. We have used it very sparingly as it does create a group message and any and all replies go to all members in the group message.

Overland Bound HQ (as Michael has already said) is spending most of the resources on technology for us. Communication will be a big part of it.

I know it's not all ideal conditions for the regions just yet, but Michael and Corrie are working VERY HARD to make a better environment for us overlanders.

 

[blackntan]

This is how. I see it. In a nut shell i take it OB IS A BUSINESS. ( not a problem )
Its grown very fast in the usa and world wide to a degree , but like all
Empires the bigger the empire the harder logistics become ( american war of independece ) (cough cough)
Delegation to the far flung regions of the empire has to be entrusted to Generals Now
Here is were empires fall unless the generals have the support of the powers that be and the people under him The empire may not allways fall but will have problems ,
Moral will suffer
Communication beetween the empire to the generals ( enclosed orders not to be seen by ranks ).
General orders seen by the ranks
Now heres the problem this orginisation is owned by. Big mike and corrie. With the good will of its member ship who are invited to become reginal ambassadors BAD MOVE
HOLD REGIONAL MEET ASK WHO WANTS TO BE A LOCAL REP ( or what ever title you want ) GET IT SECONDED VOTE THEM IN
Its a web based club that hold meets Basically , its appeal is communication
With like minded people world wide , join pay get a badge and a tea shirt oh and a number
Simple and i like it ,
The uk members feel a bit left out only because there hasnt been the same input as in the usa now thats not down to the leadership directly but i think just with the speed the OB grew the colonies have been negleted and left to run them selves
Then the ambassador it seems has got disillusioned and gone awol or mia
NO PROBLEM. AT STRATFORD HOLD A MEET ASK WHO FANCIES THE JOB
IF MORE THAN ONE MORE THE MERRIER AT BEST ONE FOR EACH REGION OF THE UK. AND MAY THE FORCE BE WITH THEM Or THERES ALWAYS A BATTLEFIELD PROMOTION.

 

[Michael]

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we are thinking about this a great deal and having quite a few conversations, not to over-complicate things for sure. There is elegance in simplicity. We want to do as much as we can to insure we do not repeat mistakes we can avoid, and acknowledge things we just can't do a damn thing about. Whatever foundation we set up, it will have support.

M

 

[blackntan]

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know we are thinking about this a great deal and having quite a few conversations, not to over-complicate things for sure. There is elegance in simplicity. We want to do as much as we can to insure we do not repeat mistakes we can avoid, and acknowledge things we just can't do a damn thing about. Whatever foundation we set up, it will have support.

M

GIANT OAKS OUT OF ACORNS GROW

 

[nickburt]

Bit late to the party here (haven't been on for a while ....work etc...), but I've been feeling the same way about how the region seems to be floundering.
Most of the probable reasons for this have already been discussed above, but some of my thoughts:

1. Borders - passports required - so what. If we're Overlanders, in this part of the World, it goes with the territory, unless you overland in a "relatively" small geographical area. No problem with this, each person, or family, will carve out their preferences for travel arrangements in their own way. But .... also see point 4 below.
2. Fuel costs - most of Europe has fuel prices sometimes double that of other countries - always makes me laugh when discussions about price increases start in countries that pay half what we do in the UK for example. It has to be considered. Having said that, if you can't afford to run it, why buy a thirsty 4x4 and indulge in an expensive hobby. See also point 3 below.
3. Cost of living - Europe is expensive. I'll take a risk and say that the average European has less disposable income than most in the US or Aus, unless, of course, you've dropped on a gold mine, been left a big inheritance, or just got damn lucky with an investment or two.
4. Compartmentalisation - yep, it happens right here in the UK and across Europe. Many groups, clubs, forums etc... have tried, and in a lot of cases, failed at operating on a large scale because we deal in small compartments - better known as Counties in the UK, Departments in France, etc... etc.... I've been on the committee of several UK and Worldwide car clubs over the years and the ones that have had the strongest glue holding them together have been the ones that have the most (smaller) regions. Those smaller regions work better month on month autonomously because there's less cost involved in running it, or being a part of it. But, many will come together for an annual, or bi-annual "National" meet. But, that National meet HAS to have an attraction. In Classic car clubs, for example, that's generally show and shine type competition/prizes/trophies etc... Obviously that won't work for Overlanders ...... or could it. Maybe not shine (or at least, not in my case), but show ?????? There's numerous shows across Europe for 4x4s, Overlanding, bushcraft, Country shows etc... etc.... But for a club to work on that scale, there must be something in it for the paying membership - what do they get for their £££, $$$, or E etc...

So, how do we overcome the hurdles?

First, we need a base level of members who are willing to put some effort into getting things moving. Coming up with ideas that work for specific geographic locations, or more generic, across the board, ideas.
The first stages of this will almost certainly be an out of pocket experience for those involved.
Seminars, teach ins, training, etc... etc.... all cost money to put on. Yes, there are maybe a handful of volunteers willing to share their experience, skills, knowledge etc. for free, but in general, venues and "teachers" cost money. Having said that, the likes of the Adventure Overland Show in the UK and Abenteuer Allrad in Germany work well, but there's a cost to them. Even if it's "only" ticket purchase to get through the gate (not to mention the fuel bill to get there and back).
Somehow, those costs have to be shared, either through ticket sales, or membership fees. This is how pretty much every club operates, throughout the World.

So how do we move forward?

It's already been said - from little acorns, grow big Oak trees. But we don't have the acorns yet. Don't get me wrong, I think (I know) the acorns are amongst us, we just don't know how to plant them yet.

We have guidance from the OB team.
We have suggestions and ideas from other OB regions.
We have our own experiences to draw on.
We just need to start gluing it together.

I tried the monthly UK NW meet - it failed. Partly my fault because I couldn't get there myself, but having facilitated it, no-one took part. Maybe I haven't promoted it enough, maybe I haven't put on "things to do" other than tyre kick, chin wag and drink coffee or beer, maybe it's in the wrong location, maybe it's the wrong day of the week/month, maybe .... maybe .... I don't know, because there's never been any real feed back about why it's failed. And, there, good friends, is an unfortunate, typical, UK trait, it doesn't work for "me", so I'll avoid it, or, go and do something else.

We all have busy lives, families to run and take care of, and in most cases, work that is the place we have to spend time at between adventures, and is the source of funding for those adventures, in most cases.

Please don't think I'm deliberately being negative about any of it. For me, the OB base ethos is great, we just need to tap into it's adaptability and mould it to suit the various different needs of the different regions and cultures.

Or ... am I barking completely up the wrong tree?

 

[Polaris Overland]

Bit late to the party here (haven't been on for a while ....work etc...), but I've been feeling the same way about how the region seems to be floundering.
Most of the probable reasons for this have already been discussed above, but some of my thoughts:

1. Borders - passports required - so what. If we're Overlanders, in this part of the World, it goes with the territory, unless you overland in a "relatively" small geographical area. No problem with this, each person, or family, will carve out their preferences for travel arrangements in their own way. But .... also see point 4 below.
2. Fuel costs - most of Europe has fuel prices sometimes double that of other countries - always makes me laugh when discussions about price increases start in countries that pay half what we do in the UK for example. It has to be considered. Having said that, if you can't afford to run it, why buy a thirsty 4x4 and indulge in an expensive hobby. See also point 3 below.
3. Cost of living - Europe is expensive. I'll take a risk and say that the average European has less disposable income than most in the US or Aus, unless, of course, you've dropped on a gold mine, been left a big inheritance, or just got damn lucky with an investment or two.
4. Compartmentalisation - yep, it happens right here in the UK and across Europe. Many groups, clubs, forums etc... have tried, and in a lot of cases, failed at operating on a large scale because we deal in small compartments - better known as Counties in the UK, Departments in France, etc... etc.... I've been on the committee of several UK and Worldwide car clubs over the years and the ones that have had the strongest glue holding them together have been the ones that have the most (smaller) regions. Those smaller regions work better month on month autonomously because there's less cost involved in running it, or being a part of it. But, many will come together for an annual, or bi-annual "National" meet. But, that National meet HAS to have an attraction. In Classic car clubs, for example, that's generally show and shine type competition/prizes/trophies etc... Obviously that won't work for Overlanders ...... or could it. Maybe not shine (or at least, not in my case), but show ?????? There's numerous shows across Europe for 4x4s, Overlanding, bushcraft, Country shows etc... etc.... But for a club to work on that scale, there must be something in it for the paying membership - what do they get for their £££, $$$, or E etc...

So, how do we overcome the hurdles?

First, we need a base level of members who are willing to put some effort into getting things moving. Coming up with ideas that work for specific geographic locations, or more generic, across the board, ideas.
The first stages of this will almost certainly be an out of pocket experience for those involved.
Seminars, teach ins, training, etc... etc.... all cost money to put on. Yes, there are maybe a handful of volunteers willing to share their experience, skills, knowledge etc. for free, but in general, venues and "teachers" cost money. Having said that, the likes of the Adventure Overland Show in the UK and Abenteuer Allrad in Germany work well, but there's a cost to them. Even if it's "only" ticket purchase to get through the gate (not to mention the fuel bill to get there and back).
Somehow, those costs have to be shared, either through ticket sales, or membership fees. This is how pretty much every club operates, throughout the World.

So how do we move forward?

It's already been said - from little acorns, grow big Oak trees. But we don't have the acorns yet. Don't get me wrong, I think (I know) the acorns are amongst us, we just don't know how to plant them yet.

We have guidance from the OB team.
We have suggestions and ideas from other OB regions.
We have our own experiences to draw on.
We just need to start gluing it together.

I tried the monthly UK NW meet - it failed. Partly my fault because I couldn't get there myself, but having facilitated it, no-one took part. Maybe I haven't promoted it enough, maybe I haven't put on "things to do" other than tyre kick, chin wag and drink coffee or beer, maybe it's in the wrong location, maybe it's the wrong day of the week/month, maybe .... maybe .... I don't know, because there's never been any real feed back about why it's failed. And, there, good friends, is an unfortunate, typical, UK trait, it doesn't work for "me", so I'll avoid it, or, go and do something else.

We all have busy lives, families to run and take care of, and in most cases, work that is the place we have to spend time at between adventures, and is the source of funding for those adventures, in most cases.

Please don't think I'm deliberately being negative about any of it. For me, the OB base ethos is great, we just need to tap into it's adaptability and mould it to suit the various different needs of the different regions and cultures.

Or ... am I barking completely up the wrong tree?

Thanks Nick I think you have indeed captured much of what I think are a number of the issues.

As Michael, Kent and yourself have stated its up to members to build the community and participation they want and OB have given us some tools to assist us but bottom line it is down to us.

Initially I think it will be small local meets that start to grow. In order to get that growth we need firstly identify areas where there are enough members and enough enthusiasm to get things moving. Part of that was the reason for my independent poll just to see how far people are actually willing to go to get to a meet. In my mind the local meets will be the backbone to building the whole OB Community because without them I can't see how anything else will develop that is different to the many other groups out there.

Local meets need to be driven initially so that is going to take a member with enthusiasm and patience to get things rolling. Your NW meet is great just with me in Aberdeen its too far obviously. The second part of that is if there are only say 3 local members meeting up it is going to often mean only 1 or 2 attend. Again not a problem as you are trying to build something but for the driver of that meet it can get frustrating if you see your efforts not being productive.

In my mind with a few separate small local meets in for example NW England hopefully those separate meets can combine into a weekend meet once or twice a year. Couple in the local meets with a bigger OB Annual or Bi-annual meet that has substance and is worth attending then suddenly you get a bigger community. Here I would suggest initially piggy backing onto an established meet such as the Overland Shows as there is already some substance here, for members who have never been it gives them a chance to see other types and styles of overland set ups and vehicles, often there are seminars and there is a ready made venue. Now a weekend at an Overland Show is not cheap especially if you have gad to drive 500 miles or so to attend so this is where I would like to see OB negotiating discounted rates or even better free access. Let's be honest many other clubs achieve this such as Overlandsphere and a number of traders offer free spots to their customers. So I'm certain this can be facilitated.

But I don't see any easy answers, as we have both said people have other lives to lead and financial burdens that take their priority on time and money. Each member has to look at himself to find his comfort zone on that score and be honest with himself as to how much involvement they want. If they are happy to have paid their membership and got a nice fancy emblem and don't need anything else then so be it. The bottom line is all hobbies cost money and how much you are willing to put into your hobby is a personal choice.

Nick you mentioned your NW Meet failed but you are unsure why as you have not had any feedback. Having looked at the responses to the "poll" I put up I can understand. Somehow we need to encourage participation, it seems mostly whether on FB or the OB Forums its the same members who seem to be involving themselves in the discussions etc. Again we somehow need to re-ignite the torch that initially got all members to join up and pay their hard earned money.

So that brings us back to the million dollar question and that is who is willing to invest their time and efforts to build the local and regional community. We need a few willing and enthusiastic representatives who can generate on a local scale but also work with others on a regional scale to get things moving and with OB help and support where needed.

Hopefully somewhere in our membership we have those individuals.

 

[blackntan]

Thanks Nick I think you have indeed captured much of what I think are a number of the issues.

As Michael, Kent and yourself have stated its up to members to build the community and participation they want and OB have given us some tools to assist us but bottom line it is down to us.

Initially I think it will be small local meets that start to grow. In order to get that growth we need firstly identify areas where there are enough members and enough enthusiasm to get things moving. Part of that was the reason for my independent poll just to see how far people are actually willing to go to get to a meet. In my mind the local meets will be the backbone to building the whole OB Community because without them I can't see how anything else will develop that is different to the many other groups out there.

Local meets need to be driven initially so that is going to take a member with enthusiasm and patience to get things rolling. Your NW meet is great just with me in Aberdeen its too far obviously. The second part of that is if there are only say 3 local members meeting up it is going to often mean only 1 or 2 attend. Again not a problem as you are trying to build something but for the driver of that meet it can get frustrating if you see your efforts not being productive.

In my mind with a few separate small local meets in for example NW England hopefully those separate meets can combine into a weekend meet once or twice a year. Couple in the local meets with a bigger OB Annual or Bi-annual meet that has substance and is worth attending then suddenly you get a bigger community. Here I would suggest initially piggy backing onto an established meet such as the Overland Shows as there is already some substance here, for members who have never been it gives them a chance to see other types and styles of overland set ups and vehicles, often there are seminars and there is a ready made venue. Now a weekend at an Overland Show is not cheap especially if you have gad to drive 500 miles or so to attend so this is where I would like to see OB negotiating discounted rates or even better free access. Let's be honest many other clubs achieve this such as Overlandsphere and a number of traders offer free spots to their customers. So I'm certain this can be facilitated.

But I don't see any easy answers, as we have both said people have other lives to lead and financial burdens that take their priority on time and money. Each member has to look at himself to find his comfort zone on that score and be honest with himself as to how much involvement they want. If they are happy to have paid their membership and got a nice fancy emblem and don't need anything else then so be it. The bottom line is all hobbies cost money and how much you are willing to put into your hobby is a personal choice.

Nick you mentioned your NW Meet failed but you are unsure why as you have not had any feedback. Having looked at the responses to the "poll" I put up I can understand. Somehow we need to encourage participation, it seems mostly whether on FB or the OB Forums its the same members who seem to be involving themselves in the discussions etc. Again we somehow need to re-ignite the torch that initially got all members to join up and pay their hard earned money.

So that brings us back to the million dollar question and that is who is willing to invest their time and efforts to build the local and regional community. We need a few willing and enthusiastic representatives who can generate on a local scale but also work with others on a regional scale to get things moving and with OB help and support where needed.

Hopefully somewhere in our membership we have those individuals.

Think we also have to realise in the age of WWW , people now like to view sites even join but never want to participate Why drive for hours to chat the same shit you can type. There has to be things to attract people that’s why Holding meets at already established gigs is good , small meets For a cups of coffee some how they ain’t going to work unless. There is a really good venue To meet at, we already have overlanding and 4x4 shows to meet at they are always willing to provide club pitches were a table in a well located Awning / gazebo could fly the OB FLAG , The only other travel worthy Meet would as you say be laning or off road days , Again there are established venues. Who for a fee would allow clubs to hire there tracks , quarry’s etc , winching and recovery tech days could be organised , Again there has to be interest we can go round and round in surgesting circles , the only way to gauge it is hold a week end laning Etc. It seems at the moment there’s a hard core of half a doz uk members posting and trying to spark the fire. I am 1 and a half hours from either wales or the lakes Or the Pennines There are always 4x4 days at tong off road site any one up for a mud bath I’ll see when the next one is over the holiday period

 

[nickburt]

All good points, some of which raise more ideas and potential hazards in getting this really going.
Stuck at work still, so will reply later with some more food for thought.

I really would like to see this work properly.

Teamwork.