Could taking a shower or washing a pan make you an outlaw?!?

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Aaron Parker

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So... We are in the process of buying an off-road pop-up. Which, though well equipped, does not have onboard hot water or shower. I assumed this was easy enough to solve, with all the options for propane-powered instant water heaters. I could simply tap into the 40lbs of propane, and oodles of onboard water the trailer has... no sweat! Right???

Well... As I was overthinking and internet researching how best to mount, use, and store a unit... I came across someone making his argument against using them at all. His reason? He claimed it 100% illegal to allow and 'grey water' to get on the ground in all 50 states... and good luck catching and getting rid of shower water outside of an enclosed space.

So... as my title asks, is this a real thing? If you take a shower or wash a pan on BLM land, or some campground... are you potentially going to be given a ticket or worse? Has anyone really had an issue with using a simple pop up shower tent and hand shower wand to clean off on the road? Has our world really come to the level of crazy that it could be illegal to take a shower? FYI... not surprised if the answer is in fact yes.

And... lastly. Any suggestions for those who have been down this road. What is your suggestion for taking showers, or washing dishes, in cases where you have a sink basin or shower that is not indoors or plummed into some form of greywater tank?

Some stock photo action of the trailer we are looking to buy... The bottom picture shows how the pull out kitchen is outside and is intended to have a gravity drain through a removable hose onto the ground.


 
Boppa's Travels

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I don't the answer to question is it 100% illegal but every time I hear that I think of all the animals and where their waste goes. I guess that is another item that could be used to get rid of cattle or elk or birds...etc
 
Pathkiller

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I think he was mistaken. We use our dish water to make sure our fire is out and have never had any problem. I do the same thing after a shave or a sponge bath. (Of course we live in the south where FREE America still exists)

I'm not going to worry about it until they start arresting all the people defecating in the city streets and leaving used hypodermics laying on the ground.
 
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grubworm

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ive checked this before and can't get a straight answer...no governing body will say to dispose of wash water on the ground, but they aren't saying you can't. the ordinance in place is for sewage, which includes sink water...so, washing out a pot and pan and flinging the water on the ground is considered "sewage", but showering is not. kind of like going down the highway and spitting out the window is "littering" by the letter of the law, but i doubt anyone would actually enforce it as they would if you threw food wrappers and stuff.
we camped at big bend months back and there was a sign saying NOT to wash pots, pans, plates and dump the water on the ground...any water with food particles is considered sewage. when the wife and i are places like that and there aren't any showers...we just boil a pot of water and do a sponge bath and wring the washcloth out on the ground. that's pretty discreet and doesnt draw attention as it would setting up the shower tent and portable shower. if we're in the middle of nowhere, we will shower on the ground otherwise we sponge bath or pay for a shower, etc.
a bit off topic, but years back i used to work on offshore oil rigs many miles off the coast...it was against the rules to piss over the side of the rig (cited as environmental hazard), but you could go inside and piss and it would get pumped overboard no problems. a stream of piss going thru the air before hitting water is toxic, but going thru a pipe into the water is OK. when it comes to rules and regulations, there are always some crazy shit people come up with....
 
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Boppa's Travels

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I agree with both grubworm and Pathkiller. And I am sticking to my original argument every animal on this planet produce waste from the earthworm to the whales. So regulation sometimes make no sense but I guess when the arrest the bison in Yellowstone for pissing at Old Faithful, I will start worry....LOL
 
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Billiebob

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Most grey water dumping laws are based on the system generating the grey water. Washing dishes, boiling water on a camp stove and dumping the washing basin is one thing, altho dumping it on the ground in a campground is likely against the camp ground rules.

But when you have a water storage tank, a pressure system, an instant hot water heater, you are expected.... required to manage the waste water too. That built in system generates a lot more grey water than the camp stove and wash basin. So yes, it is likely illegal everywhere.

It is just one of those regulations no one is enforcing..... yet. Once it becomes common and generates an issue, expect enforcement. Sort of like the rear mounted bike racks and cargo carriers which ofyen completely block the stop, turn, tail lights and license plate. Eventually some county mountie will get a hard on and start writing tickets.

The regulations are there, sure you can ignore them but eventually you might get tagged. I think the wording is, if you have a presurized water system you must have a holding tank. They don't need to catch you dumping, they just look for the grey water tank. Which is why no manufacturers add the hot water heater, they would also have to add waste water management. Most cold water systems only supply a trickle of cold water so maybe there is an exception based on the pumping pressure/volume which most tent trailers etc seem to use.
 
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Aaron Parker

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Aaron Parker

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Billiebob said:
Most grey water dumping laws are based on the system generating the grey water. Washing dishes, boiling water on a camp stove and dumping the washing basin is one thing, altho dumping it on the ground in a campground is likely against the camp ground rules.

But when you have a water storage tank, a pressure system, an instant hot water heater, you are expected.... required to manage the waste water too. That built in system generates a lot more grey water than the camp stove and wash basin. So yes, it is likely illegal everywhere.

It is just one of those regulations no one is enforcing..... yet. Once it becomes common and generates an issue, expect enforcement. Sort of like the rear mounted bike racks and cargo carriers which ofyen completely block the stop, turn, tail lights and license plate. Eventually some county mountie will get a hard on and start writing tickets.

The regulations are there, sure you can ignore them but eventually you might get tagged. I think the wording is, if you have a presurized water system you must have a holding tank. They don't need to catch you dumping, they just look for the grey water tank. Which is why no manufacturers add the hot water heater, they would also have to add waste water management. Most cold water systems only supply a trickle of cold water so maybe there is an exception based on the pumping pressure/volume which most tent trailers etc seem to use.
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Yeah, this trailer is only cold water and no grey\black tanks. The shower would be an add-on I buy, not part of it. They ship it with a 12v shower sprayer that goes in a bucket or Jerry can... But no hot water or plumbing for it.

I had hoped to put up the shower tent section that comes with it when wanted, and putting a propane water heater back there in it... That's when the water concern was found.

Guess I will watch signs and be subtle.
 
Gary Stevens

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FIrst there are a lot of ways to handle and get rid of grey water from a shower. Look up Burning Man grey water or grey water disposal. There is hours of reading on the subject and lots of ways to handle this. Next any washing of dishes that would have food particles should always be strained, and the water put into a hole at least six inches deep. That is considered acceptable pratice at any camp site. The strained food should be disposed correctly, either pack it out or burn it in your fire if a fire is allowed.
 
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