OB Approved Camping with Firearms

[Wawa Skittletits]

For me the camping aspect is just an extension of everyday life. It's not a matter of fear that makes me want to carry. It's imagining the feeling that I would have if I were ever in a situation where it could make a difference and I wasn't carrying. Be it the boogy man or boogy bear I'll always opt for being prepared.

I would like to add though that I grew up with firearms, I'm a Navy guy, and I plan to attend a couple training courses to rehone my skill set (read that as unlearn acquired bad habits). Firearm safety is a lot more than a locked up gun cabinet to me and I really wish there was a required aptitude test to apply for a CCW.

 

[Young Satchel]

For the sake of contrast--I would say that as an American, I have never in my life felt a pressing need to own or carry a firearm. That means in the hood, that means in the woods, that means in my home, that means anywhere.

I know how to shoot guns, I know how to clean guns, and truth be told, I kind of like guns. I tend to be pretty liberal politically, but understand and respect those whose views differ from my own.

I have always been a believer that firearms are indeed a "tool", something that some of my left-leaning brethren might disagree with. That being said, carrying a loaded firearm implies both the ability and the willingness to fire it. It INVITES the possibility of severe injury or death into a situation in which it may not have previously existed. I think it is absolutely crucial that anyone who owns one in their home, or carries one on their person understands this explicitly.

That may sound obvious, but sadly I think some American gun owners subscribe to a culture of fear where a gun becomes a sort of "impulse buy" as the result of an emotional decision-making process that in some cases forgoes logic and proper training. I'd like to see more programs designed to encourage responsible gun ownership as long as it continued to remain a "cornerstone" of American culture.

 

[TreXTerra]

For the sake of contrast--I would say that as an American, I have never in my life felt a pressing need to own or carry a firearm. That means in the hood, that means in the woods, that means in my home, that means anywhere.

I know how to shoot guns, I know how to clean guns, and truth be told, I kind of like guns. I tend to be pretty liberal politically, but understand and respect those whose views differ from my own.

I have always been a believer that firearms are indeed a "tool", something that some of my left-leaning brethren might disagree with. That being said, carrying a loaded firearm implies both the ability and the willingness to fire it. It INVITES the possibility of severe injury or death into a situation in which it may not have previously existed. I think it is absolutely crucial that anyone who owns one in their home, or carries one on their person understands this explicitly.

That may sound obvious, but sadly I think some American gun owners subscribe to a culture of fear where a gun becomes a sort of "impulse buy" as the result of an emotional decision-making process that in some cases forgoes logic and proper training. I'd like to see more programs designed to encourage responsible gun ownership as long as it continued to remain a "cornerstone" of American culture.

The one thing I disagree with is that a gun somehow invites violence. If I draw my firearm to defend myself, violence is already imminent, now it's just a matter of whether I will be a victim of that violence or have a means to protect myself against an aggressor.

Carrying a firearm means you lose every argument. It doesn't matter what he said about you, your mother, or your kids; you let it go. It is only when your life is in imminent danger that the gun even comes into consideration.

I have had 3 times in my life where I wanted to have my firearm, two of those were in California, where I cannot carry. I have never drawn my gun, but in these cases I was about 1 step away from needing to do so. In one case I had my hand on my axe inside my car, another I was ready to use myself to give my wife time to escape, and in the third I was ready to draw if the aggressor attacked. I've never drawn my gun and I want to keep it that way, but I'm damn glad it is there if I do need it.

 

[Ryan_Blaire]

The one thing I disagree with is that a gun somehow invites violence. If I draw my firearm to defend myself, violence is already imminent, now it's just a matter of whether I will be a victim of that violence or have a means to protect myself against an aggressor.

Carrying a firearm means you lose every argument. It doesn't matter what he said about you, your mother, or your kids; you let it go. It is only when your life is in imminent danger that the gun even comes into consideration.

I have had 3 times in my life where I wanted to have my firearm, two of those were in California, where I cannot carry. I have never drawn my gun, but in these cases I was about 1 step away from needing to do so. In one case I had my hand on my axe inside my car, another I was ready to use myself to give my wife time to escape, and in the third I was ready to draw if the aggressor attacked. I've never drawn my gun and I want to keep it that way, but I'm damn glad it is there if I do need it.

I couldn't agree more. "Carrying a firearm means you lose every argument". There is a great deal of maturity and training required to responsibly carry a firearm every day. If someone cuts you off at the gas station and you think your gun is going to solve the problem, you probably shouldn't have a gun. We have to realize as responsible, legal, sane gun carrying citizens that we are one of the best defenses against bad people with guns in this country. As such, we (most of us) know that if the situation escalates to a point where we draw our firearm, our lives are going to change. If we discharge it, our lives may never be the same. Whether justified or not, there will be an investigation, there could be a trial, and it may take months or more to straighten everything out. I am prepared for that to defend myself and my family, and I think everyone with a gun should be. But you had better be able to justify your choice; because in the days of live Facebook and smart phones, you will, more than likely, have an audience.

 

[Steve]

So far this thread has been very cordial and informative. Let's be *very* careful not to get into imposing one's point of view on others and dragging out a soapbox. It hasn't yet, but all of us know, this can be a very inflammatory topic. Let's not let it go that direction, please.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Young Satchel]

Both your points above are super well articulated. I used the word "may" on purpose in regard to the potential to invite violence but I realize that perhaps I should have worded it differently for clarity's sake. Anyway, glad to have an open and honest civil discourse on this topic here [emoji108]

 

[Narbob]

So far this thread has been very cordial and informative. Let's be *very* careful not to get into imposing one's point of view on others and dragging out a soapbox. It hasn't yet, but all of us know, this can be a very inflammatory topic. Let's not let it go that direction, please.

Thanks,
Steve

@Steve, Thank you for the post. The article was always intended as titled Camping with Firearms. Never as a gun debate.

 

[chris90]

Sorry for potentially opening up a can of worms with my question. I was merely trying to get an understanding of a cultural difference between our countries and all the responses have been informative of people's reasons to either carry or not carry without descending into anything unsavoury.

 

[Narbob]

Sorry for potentially opening up a can of worms with my question. I was merely trying to get an understanding of a cultural difference between our countries and all the responses have been informative of people's reasons to either carry or not carry without descending into anything unsavoury.

@chris90 Not a problem, discussion is always good.

 

[Ryan_Blaire]

I went off for a minute. Great discussion overall. With regard to what I said earlier, camping in the middle of nowhere and having to use a firearm for self defense would be quite a different situation than a crowded public area or even your home in the middle of the night. Even if it is an attack from an animal it's going to be a life changing event. I have never been stalked by a mountain lion or a bear but I live in the mountains and I know they are out there. For that reason I am prepared. I can't imagine being in a situation where an animal is so overpowering that I am forced to shoot it while it's on top of me. Several scenarios to think about and discuss especially from a training standpoint. We regularly train for human contact, close proximity shooting, multiple targets and active shooter situations but never about animal attacks...

 

[O.Dfj]

Sorry for potentially opening up a can of worms with my question. I was merely trying to get an understanding of a cultural difference between our countries and all the responses have been informative of people's reasons to either carry or not carry without descending into anything unsavoury.

I have a question for you why the hell do Australians eat vegemite? [emoji2]

 

[BeardedOverland]

I went off for a minute. Great discussion overall. With regard to what I said earlier, camping in the middle of nowhere and having to use a firearm for self defense would be quite a different situation than a crowded public area or even your home in the middle of the night. Even if it is an attack from an animal it's going to be a life changing event. I have never been stalked by a mountain lion or a bear but I live in the mountains and I know they are out there. For that reason I am prepared. I can't imagine being in a situation where an animal is so overpowering that I am forced to shoot it while it's on top of me. Several scenarios to think about and discuss especially from a training standpoint. We regularly train for human contact, close proximity shooting, multiple targets and active shooter situations but never about animal attacks...

Actually, I did start training for such a scenario when I first moved to our homestead. There have been numerous sightings of large cats in the area, with a wife and at the time small child, I wanted to have a working plan if things got dicey. With four dogs we never had an encounter close to home. We did have one cross the road 20 ft in front of our open top wrangler on the way to town. That was a heart stopper.

 

[chris90]

I have a question for you why the hell do Australians eat vegemite? [emoji2]

Vegemite is disgusting stuff but It does repel the dropbears

 

[O.Dfj]

Vegemite is disgusting stuff but It does repel the dropbears

I wonder if it would work to attract big foot if it repels dropbears.

 

[TreXTerra]

Sorry for potentially opening up a can of worms with my question. I was merely trying to get an understanding of a cultural difference between our countries and all the responses have been informative of people's reasons to either carry or not carry without descending into anything unsavoury.

No apologies necessary. There is nothing wrong with being curious about things. While people may disagree, I think that this thread shows that we can do so respectfully and still explain the thought process behind our decisions.

I'm the first to say that owning or carrying a firearm is not for everyone - and I don't just mean prohibited persons. Many people are not comfortable around firearms and have no interest or desire to possess one. That's perfectly fine, it is a personal choice and I certainly won't pressure anyone into firearm ownership who doesn't want one. Individual, environmental, familial, and cultural considerations all play a part in one's attitude towards firearms - and all those factors should be respected by all parties. I think this thread has done a good job at allowing civil discourse where many other forums have devolved into something less desirable.

 

[WUzombies]

One non-lethal alternative that I highly recommend is pepper spray.

Throughout my previous career in full time law enforcement I will tell you that every single person I deployed OC spray against I had to still fight. Not just struggle into handcuffs, I mean straight up fight. Once they were cuffed and in the back of a patrol car they would then start yelling and carrying on because their adrenaline was coming down and the effects of the OC became noticeable. OC didn't work on large dogs charging people either. Basically I never had an experience in which OC worked except against medium sized dogs trying to bite people. If I could have taken it off my belt to save space and weight I would of but department policy required me to keep it on my duty belt.

With that said I wrote this a year and a half ago, it was true then and it is true for me now: http://talesofadventures.net/every-day-carry/

 

[TreXTerra]

Fun story time. I like bringing this up when pepper spray is proposed as an alternative to a firearm.

The US military was brought in to put down a rebellion in the Philippines, at the time, the standard sidearm was a .38 special. This round was almost completely ineffective thanks, in part, to the natives getting high before going into battle. As a result, the Army approached John Browning to design a better round that would be more effective in combat. The result was the .45 ACP, he then designed the 1911 to wrap around the new ammunition.

So, if a bunch of tribesmen high on natural plants can take hits from a .38, imagine how well pepper spray will do against someone high on the wonders of modern chemistry. I've seen video of a guy high on meth armed with a sword chasing a cop around her own patrol car while getting hosed in the face by a riot-sized can of OC and it didn't even slow him down.

 

[WUzombies]

Fun story time. I like bringing this up when pepper spray is proposed as an alternative to a firearm.

The US military was brought in to put down a rebellion in the Philippines, at the time, the standard sidearm was a .38 special. This round was almost completely ineffective thanks, in part, to the natives getting high before going into battle. As a result, the Army approached John Browning to design a better round that would be more effective in combat. The result was the .45 ACP, he then designed the 1911 to wrap around the new ammunition.

So, if a bunch of tribesmen high on natural plants can take hits from a .38, imagine how well pepper spray will do against someone high on the wonders of modern chemistry. I've seen video of a guy high on meth armed with a sword chasing a cop around her own patrol car while getting hosed in the face by a riot-sized can of OC and it didn't even slow him down.

The people high on meth or PCP (PCP made a come back for a bit for some stupid reason) that I fought ended up getting Tased. They all required multiple "rides" so I could get them into handcuffs. All of them ended up in a no-shit me or them fight. One guy I thought I was going to have to shoot it was so bad, I was by myself and that was one hell of a call for service. Another guy it took five of us and three taser rides just to get the braclets on.

This wasn't a cheap gun show stun gun, this was the full powered X25 with good prove deployment that disrupts muscle function.

I've been Tased in training, it f'ing hurt and I couldn't over power it. Afterwards I laid on the ground for a minute. These guys were superman, fighting through the taser. Side note is I had been in martial arts for approximately 16 years before this all and was actively competing in powerlifting. As odd of a combination as that is it worked out well in that most turds decided it better to simply not resist arrest and the ones that did were quickly resolved. However the "enhanced" turds were a different story all together. (Turd is what we called "dirtbags" it has zero racial connotations).

Another fun fact about OC is that when you deploy it you WILL get exposure. That's why we got sprayed in training then had to accomplish a series of tasks like fight a trainer while making radio calls.

I left full time law enforcement two years ago after rupturing a bicep taking down a burglar high on K2 (that was "fun" thank god another friend in blue was right in my ass to jump in) and recently had the realization that there is a good chance I'll never be in a no-shit fight again the rest of my life. That was a pleasant epiphany. However I'll still be ready in case I have to defend my family or myself,

 

[Steve]

It probably wasn't prudent of me to post my comment and then not come back for half a day. Several of you replied with "mea culpa" comments, but that wasn't needed at all. I wasn't commenting on any post in particular, nor any person, and if it sounded that way, I apologize. The topic can be very polarizing, and the flavor of the thread shifted ever so slightly in that direction. My post was just to remind us to not stray too far.

Most forums I've participated on have very strict rules against discussions about religion, race, politics, and firearms. Fortunately, @Michael hasn't added those over-confining restrictions here. We're all very good at self-policing the forums, and keeping things in check, and the moderators certainly appreciate that. You guys make our jobs easy!

Steve

 

[Lassen]

No apologies necessary. There is nothing wrong with being curious about things. While people may disagree, I think that this thread shows that we can do so respectfully and still explain the thought process behind our decisions.

I'm the first to say that owning or carrying a firearm is not for everyone - and I don't just mean prohibited persons. Many people are not comfortable around firearms and have no interest or desire to possess one. That's perfectly fine, it is a personal choice and I certainly won't pressure anyone into firearm ownership who doesn't want one. Individual, environmental, familial, and cultural considerations all play a part in one's attitude towards firearms - and all those factors should be respected by all parties. I think this thread has done a good job at allowing civil discourse where many other forums have devolved into something less desirable.

You're absolutely right! If it makes you uncomfortable, it's probsbly not for you.