Buddy Heater suspected as cause of death

  • HTML tutorial
PNW EXPLR

PNW EXPLR

Local Expert Southeast Washington, USA
Member
Investor

Explorer I

4,285
Kennewick, WA, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Denniston
Member #

3030

Ham/GMRS Callsign
KJ7LYZ
Hey everybody.

Just wanted to post this as more of a "Please, be aware" then anything.
There are a lot of videos and threads on various forums that discuss the safely of Buddy Heaters in regards to them being used indoors and the concerns of potential carbon monoxide poisoning.
Generally, I think the common thought is that they are safe, and this may be generally true for most conditions.
Here is a link to the local (for me) article.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Road
PNW EXPLR

PNW EXPLR

Local Expert Southeast Washington, USA
Member
Investor

Explorer I

4,285
Kennewick, WA, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Denniston
Member #

3030

Ham/GMRS Callsign
KJ7LYZ
Yroundrdn said:
Well I'm still alive. I guess somewhere between leaving the window down and inch or two and cooking in a van can kill you. Or... you can install a CO2 alarm just to be safe.
Click to expand...
I agree that carbon monoxide detector really should be used.

The problem is that in a vehicle the vented window is most likely above the sleeping space. Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and will collect in the low spaces and fill up. Unless there is substantial air flow in the space, the vent my do no good.

This is why having a CO detector near the floor is important.

Maybe is had something to do with the roast. I wonder if he was using the heater like a BBQ ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dilldog
Anak

Anak

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,741
Sandy Eggo
That is a scary story.

But there is a substantial difference between a canvas tent and a vehicle, particularly when it comes to air exchanges.

I do use a CO alarm in conjunction with my Buddy Heater. It is part of the heater kit. I make sure I have fresh batteries for it every time I pack the heater.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baipin and eagle_A40
AL.WVSN

AL.WVSN

Rank IV
Launch Member

Enthusiast III

1,385
San Jose, CA, USA
First Name
Al
Last Name
Mofo
Member #

19818

I have 2 CO2 in my Roof Top Tent - one on the floor and the other is hanging on top.

But I only started using Buddy Heater a handful of times but when i do use it, I zip it down halfway once side and the other just a tad bit.

I do have 1 rule that I don't sleep while it's on. If I wake up in the middle of the night cold, I turn it on but only for 5-10 min and turn it off before I shut my eyes again.

Edit- I saw a comment with a link that the man and the dog died in a different type of heater...

"This article is incorrect. The picture shown is not from this incident. The coroner's report states that a parabolic heater was used. A parabolic heater produces carbon monoxide and is NOT safe for indoor use. Mr. Heater brand Buddy heaters and similar heaters that use a catalyst do not produce carbon monoxide and are safe for indoor use but still need a window cracked for a fresh air supply.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article238115294.html?fbclid=IwAR07n6_PenrHRlA_VGZm9VxklkKm-DAoJFV9ObQyNXU94xM-qWBGkNgxl7U"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Downs, JMTOVERLAND, Dilldog and 3 others
Flipper

Flipper

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,865
Florida
First Name
John
Last Name
F
Member #

5021

We also have a Carbon Monoxide/ Smoke Detector in our rig. Only a couple bucks at Wally World. No excuse not to have one especially with the propane heaters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Desert Runner
Billiebob

Billiebob

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,835
earth
First Name
Bill
Last Name
William
Member #

18893

Nothing new here,
I remember people dying in tents in the 1960s, some people believe any death is the result of a stupid operator. More often it is the design of the unit.

I make my living installing fireplaces, wood stoves, pellet stoves. The regulations for residential installations are well researched. The regulations for portable heaters are almost non existent and the ways some people use them, their knowledge of the risks, even their lack of reading the instructions creates the perfect senario for a fatal outcome. Obviously they can be used safely but the chance of something changing.... maybe just the wind while you sleep.... make them an accident waiting to happen.

As stated in post #3, are you sure a cracked window will work when CO is heavy and falls to the floor... where you are breathing.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: grubworm, Desert Runner and Road
Anak

Anak

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,741
Sandy Eggo
AL.WVSN said:
"This article is incorrect. The picture shown is not from this incident. The coroner's report states that a parabolic heater was used. A parabolic heater produces carbon monoxide and is NOT safe for indoor use. Mr. Heater brand Buddy heaters and similar heaters that use a catalyst do not produce carbon monoxide and are safe for indoor use but still need a window cracked for a fresh air supply.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article238115294.html?fbclid=IwAR07n6_PenrHRlA_VGZm9VxklkKm-DAoJFV9ObQyNXU94xM-qWBGkNgxl7U"
Click to expand...
Nice to know they lied to us.

I feel so much better now.

:smirk:
 
  • Like
Reactions: old_man
Road

Road

Not into ranks, titles or points.
Launch Member

Advocate III

3,379
On the road in North America
First Name
Road
Last Name
Dude
Member #

6589

AL.WVSN said:
Edit- I saw a comment with a link that the man and the dog died in a different type of heater...

"This article is incorrect. The picture shown is not from this incident. The coroner's report states that a parabolic heater was used. A parabolic heater produces carbon monoxide and is NOT safe for indoor use. Mr. Heater brand Buddy heaters and similar heaters that use a catalyst do not produce carbon monoxide and are safe for indoor use but still need a window cracked for a fresh air supply.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article238115294.html?fbclid=IwAR07n6_PenrHRlA_VGZm9VxklkKm-DAoJFV9ObQyNXU94xM-qWBGkNgxl7U"
Click to expand...
AL.WVSN said:
This is giving me some good informal about heaters... Buddy Heater is a catalyst heater which does not produce Carbon Monoxide...

Click to expand...
.
Exactly.

Folks need to educate themselves better about what they are actually using and what the dangers are. Especially around carbon monoxide and whether or not the appliance they are using creates it as a by-product of combustion.

I've used a Mr Buddy for years in my van and around camp without problem. I rarely ever sleep with it on, though, more from not wanting the extra condensation it helps produce than from fear of carbon monoxide. I also don't like the idea of something like a jacket or sheet accidentally falling on the heater if I have to get up quickly for a storm or something.

The Mr Buddy heater needs oxygen to work and if your space is not vented to allow fresh oxygen in, the heater senses the low oxygen environment and shuts off. It doesn't mean the depletion of oxygen is due to a buildup of carbon monoxide, in my understanding.

That said, Enerco, the company that manufactures the Mr Heater line has a pdf page (evidently not linkable here) saying that it expressly prohibits the use of its heaters from being used with 3rd party products to cook food. In the statement it says:
"This product is NEVER to be used for the cooking or warming of foods as doing so can interfere with the safety systems of the heater, which may result in a fire, explosion, the production of deadly carbon monoxide, and personal injury or death to you or others. NEVER use hand‐made or third party accessories or attachments with this heater; this is extremely dangerous and may result in personal injury or death to you or others."
Click to expand...
The Mr Heater is capable of producing carbon monoxide, evidently, though only if misused and the safety systems are compromised. At least that's the way I read that.

It sounds, though, that the man was not using a Mr Heater but another, parabolic, type. If that's true, it's rather disengenuous of KXLY to show the photo of a Mr Heater in use in a completely different, outside even, scenario.

This is how bullshit rumors and fear gets propagated.


Road

.
roaddude.com

Roaddude - On the Road In North America - ROADDUDE

Roaddude - Traveling Photographer/Writer/Artist On the Road In North America. Gear, reviews, people, places, and culture.
roaddude.com roaddude.com
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dilldog, MOAK, Billy "Poserlander" Badly and 1 other person
Boostpowered

Boostpowered

Rank VI

Member III

4,879
Hunt county, TX, USA
First Name
Justin
Last Name
Davis
Member #

14684

My mr heater is made for both heating and cooking and does both really well. I have never used it in an enclosed space my tent would likely melt around me, and there wouldnt be enough room in my truck. It will warm up the whole campsite unless the wind is over 10mph then you need to stand closer to it. If your intelligent and dont want to win the darwin award then youd be placing rocks or water bottles around it to heat up and stick in your sleeping area for warmth. I have used it in my house without a problem but i also have a wood burning stove and my house has a draft because it was built in the 1930s.

15760701064051583562705.jpg15760701342981745603048.jpg
 
smritte

smritte

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,827
Ontario California
First Name
Scott
Last Name
SMR
Member #

8846

Ham/GMRS Callsign
KO6BI
I've been using my Lil Buddy heater in my RTT for years. I hang it from the roof near the door so I cant kick it over. The venting on my tent gives me a nice bit of airflow. I chose this one because of the lack of CO2. I don't sleep with it on. I open my blankets, turn it on for a bit before I go to bed. Turn it off once it warms back up after I climb in, maybe read for a few, then turn it off. In the morning, sneak over, turn it on then cover back up. If I go back to sleep it's only 20-30 mins.

I didn't bother reading the article. It's going to read like the others I read while researching a tent heater. If what everyone says is true, the reporter grabbed a random heater picture and applied it to his story. Why would he not find out the brand of heater and use that? Because he just probably got the report from the M.E. and filled the rest in. Too much work to write an accurate story. As long as he writes about death and destruction and is able to point at a villain (even if its the wrong one) his job is done. What harm can come from reporting wrong? No one is hurt.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: grubworm and RichieFromBoston
1Louder

1Louder

Rank VI
Launch Member

Member II

4,187
AZ
First Name
Chris
Last Name
K
Member #

1437

Ham/GMRS Callsign
K1LDR
Folks the Mr. Heater manual clearly states it can produce CO2. I have used one for years in a well ventilated tent and a trailer without issue. Don't think it does not produce CO2 though.

From the manual: (Various CO2 Warnings)

"When used without adequate combustion and ventilation air, this heater may give off excessive CARBON MONOXIDE, an odorless, poisonous gas."

"• Improper combustion can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning leading to serious injury or death. Symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning can include headaches, dizziness and difficulty in breathing."

"DO NOT OPERATE HEATER UNLESS CONTROL KNOB IS LOCKED IN A POSITION MARKED “HI”, “LO” or “PILOT”.NEVER SET CONTROL KNOB BETWEEN LOCKED POSITIONS. POOR COMBUSTION AND HIGHER LEVELS OF CARBON MONOXIDE MAY RESULT"

It does also state:
"This heater is safe for indoor use in small recreational enclosures having means for providing combustion air and ventilation, such as enclosed porches, cabins, fishing huts, trailers, tent trailers, tents, truck caps and vans. It may be used for emergency indoor heating when connected to a disposable 1 lb. propane cylinder and for indoor use in commercial enclosures, having means for providing combustion air and ventilation, such as construction trailers or temporary work enclosures"

Not sure why they describe it as "emergency indoor heating"

 
  • Like
Reactions: RoarinRow and PNW EXPLR
Anak

Anak

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,741
Sandy Eggo
It is just so refreshing to hear they had to admit to one of their lies.

I am waiting to next hear that it wasn't actually a man and a dog, but two pigs and a chicken. In a dog kennel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: old_man
K

kwill

Rank II

Enthusiast III

473
TX
First Name
Kevin
Last Name
Williams
Folks the Mr. Heater manual clearly states it can produce CO2. I have used one for years in a well ventilated tent and a trailer without issue. Don't think it does not produce CO2 though.
Click to expand...
Do you mean CO? CO2 is carbon dioxide. CO is carbon monoxide. It is a common mistake and often confuses the issue because different heaters can produce either (or both).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tommy9610, resqr1 and Road
old_man

old_man

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

2,827
Loveland, Colorado
First Name
Tom
Last Name
Houston
Member #

8300

Ham/GMRS Callsign
WØNUT Extra
Anak said:
It is just so refreshing to hear they had to admit to one of their lies.

I am waiting to next hear that it wasn't actually a man and a dog, but two pigs and a chicken. In a dog kennel.
Click to expand...
Once owned by Donald Trump.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grubworm
1Louder

1Louder

Rank VI
Launch Member

Member II

4,187
AZ
First Name
Chris
Last Name
K
Member #

1437

Ham/GMRS Callsign
K1LDR
kwill said:
Do you mean CO? CO2 is carbon dioxide. CO is carbon monoxide. It is a common mistake and often confuses the issue because different heaters can produce either (or both).
Click to expand...
Sorry I’m not a chemist. You are correct. So CO as in read the manual since guys like me might give bad info. Everything from the manual is in quotes and uses the proper terminology.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom