Member II
Amsoil is fantastic I hear, it's just impossible to get here. I'd have to travel to Las Vegas to acquire it I believe. I'd love to give Amsoil a shot!
Big Tuna Presents: Pegasus Rising
- Thread starter BigTuna117
- Start date
Traveler III
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7082
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Sorry to hear about the trouble! I went with an OEM replacement radiator and thermostat after a recent pinhole leak developed in my old and probably original radiator. Thought about going full alu on the rad but I didn't want to mess with trimming the shroud. Nearly went with the Mishimoto thermostat, and almost considered the ones with the fail-safe to only get stuck open, as I hear those are a thing. In the end, I let my mechanic do the work and both come with a lifetime warranty. Lazy on my part, but I didn't have time to mess with it, nor did I want to. Hope that Rotella oil works! I've been using Mobil1 high mile synthetic for the past couple years. I used to stick with a conventional but ran into issues with some sludging due to the design of the heads and lash adjusters. Didn't seem to have too much trouble with breakdown that I could tell aside from super-extended highway miles.
Member II
Traveler III
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Do you recall what size tubing you used for this? I am in the process of getting an air manifold mounted to run all 4 breather lines to and cannot find anything on the web about what size to use without pulling one off and finding someone with a caliper to measure the ID. I will probably do that if you don't remember as we finally have a break in the weather.So, today I finished extending the breathers for the diffs, Transfer case, and Transmission. Although I have no plans to really submerge the jeep, a little piece of mind is worth the $0.69 a foot for tubing. The 545RFE and its variant on the V8 have a dinky little breather which just dangles across the top of the transmission, so moving it up was a must. The transfer case and front diff were both lengthed moderately from the factory, but I extended them up to meet the other two. I relocated the rear diff breather to run to the front, as I had enough breather hose to do so, and the oem hose was stretched and wrecked anyways. Eventually, I'll pair all 4 breathers into a filter kit, such as ARB's Universal Breather filter.
Eventually, I'm gonna snorkel the old girl. Not so much because of water, but because the dust factor out here has such an impact on filter life, and many African expedition vehicles are equipped with them for just that reason. By moving your intake up, you supposedly take in less dust, at least that's the hope. And with extended breathers, if I ever do need to so a "moderate submerge" I don't need to worry about the transmission turning into a strawberry milkshake dispenser.
Member II
I don't, unfortunately. I remember I cut a small section off of one of the breathers and went to the auto parts store and just sized it that way. It still requires male-to-male connectors as well, so keep that in mind if you are just extending them and not actually fully replacing them.
Member II
THE... WEATHER.... IS DOWN TO.... 100....
Maybe I can get some wrenching done soon. Not really a ton on the plate, but alot of stuff I've been putting off for the summer. I did manage to diagnose a continuing "mild" overheat issue.... All I can say is make sure your bleed screw seals properly.
Currently I am fabbing up a way to mount an oil catch can onto the air intake, that way I can basically re-route that exhaust into the catch can, right into the intake from there. I also had a stress crack in the back of my snorkel, which required me to remove it and JB weld it. That one was hot, as you'd expect for mid July. In the meantime, The Rotella seems to be holding up well. Generally as oil begins to break down, you start to see a "slack" in power. The way the Jeep functions seem to change dramatically. So far, I haven't really noticed much. It still pulls very well in acceleration, however we won't really notice any big difference until the next oil change. Note my less than scientific research method.
Maybe I can get some wrenching done soon. Not really a ton on the plate, but alot of stuff I've been putting off for the summer. I did manage to diagnose a continuing "mild" overheat issue.... All I can say is make sure your bleed screw seals properly.
Currently I am fabbing up a way to mount an oil catch can onto the air intake, that way I can basically re-route that exhaust into the catch can, right into the intake from there. I also had a stress crack in the back of my snorkel, which required me to remove it and JB weld it. That one was hot, as you'd expect for mid July. In the meantime, The Rotella seems to be holding up well. Generally as oil begins to break down, you start to see a "slack" in power. The way the Jeep functions seem to change dramatically. So far, I haven't really noticed much. It still pulls very well in acceleration, however we won't really notice any big difference until the next oil change. Note my less than scientific research method.
Traveler III
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Question on the control arms. I am nearing replacement on mine as I'm sure the bushing are about to split. I have looked into some options such as IRO, but want to retain the solid feel of the stock bushings and minimal maintenance such as not having to grease or grease often. Any recommendations?
Advocate I
Wow... AWESOME thread for us WJ folks. I just gave it a skim from the very first post through the end; lots of good info and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your experiences. Three things right off the bat that you've done which I'm interested in and might repeat are:
I'm also interested in your tow hooks, did they come stock on your Laredo? My Overland doesn't have any.
Also, a little bit of input, and a few observations:
The moral of the story is, if you feel you have insufficient viscocity at high temps (which is roughly analogous to lower oil pressure at high temps) you want to move to something with a higher number in the 2nd position (like a 15W-50... though you would want to note it's also thicker when cold, so if you live in a very cold climate it might not be a good choice). If you think you have actual lubricity issues (as witnessed by doing oil-sample-analysis and finding higher traces of bearing materials and such) you want to go to a higher quality oil. Finally, I'll note that there is definietely such a thing as "too thick" of an oil and "too much" oil pressure. It's often assumed that more oil pressure is always better, but that's just not the case. The factory bearing clearances were set with a particular range of oil pressures in mind, changing oil pressure (via oil weights) outside of the factory specs can cause far more harm than good. You really only want to go up in oil viscocity when your pressures have fallen outside of the acceptable stock range, but you should be aware at that point it's just a bandaid for a worn motor.
Anyway, again not trying to be preachy, just trying to help. Here's my WJ thread if your're interested, though it's not nearly as detailed... yet: 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Build
-TJ
- 180 T-Stat
- All-AL, larger rad
- Oil Cooler
I'm also interested in your tow hooks, did they come stock on your Laredo? My Overland doesn't have any.
Also, a little bit of input, and a few observations:
I'd love more info on the 4-hole injectors, but I have a HO so my flow-rate and part number are different. We all know the 4.7 doesn't have the smoothest of idles, but a fresh set of 4-holes with the increased atomization might help. From what I've found the 4.7 HO could be 2 or 4 hole stock, so it might not be an "upgrade" if I had 4-holes before, but a fresh, clean, balanced set is never a bad thing. Anyway, what I actually meant to comment about here was the look of that plug. There's no nice way to say it, but I don't like the look of it. I wrote a little something about spark-plug-reading here: Spark Plug Reading... - Dune and Dirt You may want to give it a skim. I imagine the issues with your plugs had a lot to do with the bad injectors, PCM, wiring and sensor issues you were sorting out. Still, I'd go ahead and pull your plugs and inspect them now. Everything should be tip-top and your performance and MPG seem to support that, but I'd want to see what the plugs look like now. As talked about in that thread, to get a good read you want to try to get the plugs out after some hard pulls with as little idling around after as possible. This is often really hard to achieve, but you can get close by doing some hard pulls, pulling directly in the garage and shutting it off. With race-stuff we do a WOT pull and actually kill the ignition, coast to a stop, then tow it back to pull plugs.
Please keep in mind I'm only trying to help, not be "that guy", but you're misunderstanding multi-grade engine oil. Basically, when you see two weights listed on an oil (like 10 and 30 in "10W-30") the first weight is the viscocity when COLD, the second is the HOT viscocity. The lower the number, the less viscocity (aka "thinner") the oil is. So, the difference between a 10W-30 and the 5W-30 you switched from is only experienced when the oil is relatively cold, at which point it is indeed thicker. However, when the oil is hot, where you said you were experiencing a breakdown in lubricity both oils are of a 30 viscocity, and would perform the same. That said, lubricity and viscocity are not the same property, and a lot of lubricity has to do with the quality, condition and age (age more in heat-cycles than time) of the oil, as well as the additive packages. Not all 10W-30 oils will have the same lubricity at 240 degrees F, however by SAE standards they should have the same viscocity.
The moral of the story is, if you feel you have insufficient viscocity at high temps (which is roughly analogous to lower oil pressure at high temps) you want to move to something with a higher number in the 2nd position (like a 15W-50... though you would want to note it's also thicker when cold, so if you live in a very cold climate it might not be a good choice). If you think you have actual lubricity issues (as witnessed by doing oil-sample-analysis and finding higher traces of bearing materials and such) you want to go to a higher quality oil. Finally, I'll note that there is definietely such a thing as "too thick" of an oil and "too much" oil pressure. It's often assumed that more oil pressure is always better, but that's just not the case. The factory bearing clearances were set with a particular range of oil pressures in mind, changing oil pressure (via oil weights) outside of the factory specs can cause far more harm than good. You really only want to go up in oil viscocity when your pressures have fallen outside of the acceptable stock range, but you should be aware at that point it's just a bandaid for a worn motor.
You can sign up on their site for a small fee, which allows you to order direct at a discount which usually more than covers the fee.
Anyway, again not trying to be preachy, just trying to help. Here's my WJ thread if your're interested, though it's not nearly as detailed... yet: 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Build
-TJ
Last edited:
Member II
That's some good stuff, I'd just note to watch my Mishimoto T-stat review video. I found that the "tail" probe actually bottoms out on the timing chain cover. I can't reccomend the 180 degree T-stat until Mishimoto upgrades their design... Unless you find one with another manufacturer.
Alot of my cooling mods have been proactive, as I live in a city that (many times during the summer) trumps death valley in temperature. Somehow this machine continues to wallow around, unfazed by the heat in that respect. The one thing I can say living in a hot climate is that even though the larger rad adds value at highway speeds... oh wait... you should have the hydro fan, sooooo yeah... I don't know much about the airflow rate it's capable of. As for the spark plugs, your article is fascinating. I'll have to give it a through read! I will inspect my current plugs and see if there is any buildup on them.
Your notes in regards to oil viscosity are invaluable. As I have researched the topic, that is (more or less) what I've learned.... Just boiled down into a more efficient paragraph, rather than several websites and youtube videos, haha
The tow hooks were in fact stock. As I recall, they had several different "Laredo" packages when the WJ was first introduced. Then again, my rig has alot of quirks, including a factory WG diesel ready instrument cluster, and a "shared" P/N PCM.
Eventually I plan to upgrade to some sort of winch bumper, so when that happens, they'll probably be up for grabs. I don't have any sort of timeframe however.
Alot of my cooling mods have been proactive, as I live in a city that (many times during the summer) trumps death valley in temperature. Somehow this machine continues to wallow around, unfazed by the heat in that respect. The one thing I can say living in a hot climate is that even though the larger rad adds value at highway speeds... oh wait... you should have the hydro fan, sooooo yeah... I don't know much about the airflow rate it's capable of. As for the spark plugs, your article is fascinating. I'll have to give it a through read! I will inspect my current plugs and see if there is any buildup on them.
Your notes in regards to oil viscosity are invaluable. As I have researched the topic, that is (more or less) what I've learned.... Just boiled down into a more efficient paragraph, rather than several websites and youtube videos, haha
The tow hooks were in fact stock. As I recall, they had several different "Laredo" packages when the WJ was first introduced. Then again, my rig has alot of quirks, including a factory WG diesel ready instrument cluster, and a "shared" P/N PCM.
Eventually I plan to upgrade to some sort of winch bumper, so when that happens, they'll probably be up for grabs. I don't have any sort of timeframe however.
Traveler III
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Check out Fawkes Fab for some good front recovery points while retaining the stock bumper. I've had these on my rig almost the entire time I've had it. Build time was the only time without. They are solid recovery points that I've towed other rigs out with a few times. In regards to your cooling pro-activity, I definitely recommend freshening up the cooling system. I didn't go with the 180 t-stat or full alu rad, but I did go with OEM replacements on those and a water pump, flushed the cooling system with fresh coolant, and flushed the hydro fan/ PS system. I haven't had any indication of trouble since. The trans cooler is on my list to aid with cooling as well, but I am not super concerned just yet as I recently serviced the trans as well. I do agree with your comment of using high quality oil as the breakdown is lessened. Thanks for the note on Amsoil access. I currently use Mobil1 full syn high mile oil and a high quality filter, but I'd like to go better if I can, especially since I change oil after about 5k-6k miles unless it needs it before then.
Member II
Not alot going on for the holidays, just general maintenance until spring. But I am still actively doing stuff to improve the Jeep.
Member II
Well, the beautiful weather has really got me in gear! Last week I installed Sliders from Affordable Offroad:
Which is something I should've gotten done a LONG time ago. I ended up spending a couple of hours straightening the rocker panels out, sanding them down, and re-coating them makes everything look pretty dang sharp. Really, this is something that should've been completed late phase 2 or early phase 3, before the rig took rocker damage. Fortunately, it was minor enough to not hinder the installation much.
Which leads to today, a beautiful Saturday with not a cloud in the sky, barely a breeze, and a high of 70f, I set out to tackle the relocation of my driver's side brake line into it's proper place, OUTSIDE of the Iron Y, instead of through it, as I had done previously. Once I had this completed, I broke out my trusty coil compressors, and removed the front coils to investigate the installation of coil retainers. Now, the IronMan4x4Fab retainers come with no instructions, but based on the hardware provided, I suspect the intended process would include holes into each coil perch in order to accommodate the mounting hardware. I've had these in my garage for about a year, which gave me plenty of time to think about that.... Why not just use rivnuts and not (potentially) ruin the integrity of my coil perches?
So that's what I did. The factory hole in the perch would do perfectly on the lower perches, but the uppers did require some slight widening. No problem. Made installation a breeze, and the coils are tight and secured now.
And with that, the Jeep is pretty much ready to wheel again! I did discover that my upper radiator hose is starting to weep, so that's gonna have to be replaced soon.
Which is something I should've gotten done a LONG time ago. I ended up spending a couple of hours straightening the rocker panels out, sanding them down, and re-coating them makes everything look pretty dang sharp. Really, this is something that should've been completed late phase 2 or early phase 3, before the rig took rocker damage. Fortunately, it was minor enough to not hinder the installation much.
Which leads to today, a beautiful Saturday with not a cloud in the sky, barely a breeze, and a high of 70f, I set out to tackle the relocation of my driver's side brake line into it's proper place, OUTSIDE of the Iron Y, instead of through it, as I had done previously. Once I had this completed, I broke out my trusty coil compressors, and removed the front coils to investigate the installation of coil retainers. Now, the IronMan4x4Fab retainers come with no instructions, but based on the hardware provided, I suspect the intended process would include holes into each coil perch in order to accommodate the mounting hardware. I've had these in my garage for about a year, which gave me plenty of time to think about that.... Why not just use rivnuts and not (potentially) ruin the integrity of my coil perches?
So that's what I did. The factory hole in the perch would do perfectly on the lower perches, but the uppers did require some slight widening. No problem. Made installation a breeze, and the coils are tight and secured now.
And with that, the Jeep is pretty much ready to wheel again! I did discover that my upper radiator hose is starting to weep, so that's gonna have to be replaced soon.
Member II
And now, for something completely different:
I decided to spend a little extra and get something really nice and form fitting in form of Coverking seat covers! Pretty great fit, finish and quality so far. We'll see how the hold up.
I decided to spend a little extra and get something really nice and form fitting in form of Coverking seat covers! Pretty great fit, finish and quality so far. We'll see how the hold up.
Member II
I'm sorry to say I've been a bit lax at updating what I've done. Like many, I've spent much of this year inside, but I finally got the itch to complete some projects on the Jeep. I ended up removing my Rola roof rack to replace it with a custom made Goliath Off Road flat rack. This rack is a direct bolt-in and completely replaces the factory cargo rack, for a much sturdier overall rack, with a much more sleek profile.
(I forgot to take a picture, so this is the actual store picture Goliath Off Road uses) I haven't re-installed any of my accessories onto it yet, as I determine which ones I actually need.
I also took the time last weekend to revisit my dual battery system, and make some improvements. all in all, it has performed admirably, with the secondary battery finally losing it's charge after five years. The volatile nature of our weather means that the primary battery doesn't last long, and the temperature-based charging of the WJ means that both batteries generally see less charging through the summer because of this. I made the decision to move the primary battery, and the isolator solenoid to the rear. While I was at it, I also replaced the mains cables with a kit from JeepCables.com, which were a wee bit long, but otherwise very good quality. I have yet to replace the starter cable because I am not sure exactly how to route it, but that cable is still in very good shape, unlike the others. I also installed a 180A Alternator.
(Solenoid's goooone)
I made the decision to run fresh 0GA wire all the way back, for both terminals. Sure, I could ground completely through the unibody, but I always thought more ground was better. Both batteries now have a direct ground link, also. So along with the previous ground I installed in the back The temperature sensor was also relocated, so the PCM is still rechnically reading the live battery temperature from that sensor.
Pardon the wire slop. I still have to figure out what to do with the extra length. Also, I plan to re-loom the wires so they aren't just going every which direction. All in all, works great, the batteries are receiving a more consistent charge, and the lead-acid batteries were swapped with sealed AGM batteries, so hopefully we see some serious longevity of life gains!
(I forgot to take a picture, so this is the actual store picture Goliath Off Road uses) I haven't re-installed any of my accessories onto it yet, as I determine which ones I actually need.
I also took the time last weekend to revisit my dual battery system, and make some improvements. all in all, it has performed admirably, with the secondary battery finally losing it's charge after five years. The volatile nature of our weather means that the primary battery doesn't last long, and the temperature-based charging of the WJ means that both batteries generally see less charging through the summer because of this. I made the decision to move the primary battery, and the isolator solenoid to the rear. While I was at it, I also replaced the mains cables with a kit from JeepCables.com, which were a wee bit long, but otherwise very good quality. I have yet to replace the starter cable because I am not sure exactly how to route it, but that cable is still in very good shape, unlike the others. I also installed a 180A Alternator.
(Solenoid's goooone)
I made the decision to run fresh 0GA wire all the way back, for both terminals. Sure, I could ground completely through the unibody, but I always thought more ground was better. Both batteries now have a direct ground link, also. So along with the previous ground I installed in the back The temperature sensor was also relocated, so the PCM is still rechnically reading the live battery temperature from that sensor.
Pardon the wire slop. I still have to figure out what to do with the extra length. Also, I plan to re-loom the wires so they aren't just going every which direction. All in all, works great, the batteries are receiving a more consistent charge, and the lead-acid batteries were swapped with sealed AGM batteries, so hopefully we see some serious longevity of life gains!
Member II
If you would have told me during my 2017 Cooling overhaul that I'd be doing it again, well, I probably wouldn't have been surprised. The thing with trying out aftermarket parts such as the 2-core radiator that I had installed at that time is that you never really know how it's going to affect the rest of the system. The increase in fin density with having a radiator that is double thick, quite literally, leads to issues with the OEM cooling solution (of course being the traditional Jeep 5-blade clutch fan, with an electric helper fan). A popular up-and-coming solution that sprang up in 2018 was to install the 11 blade fan and clutch used in the early 2000's Ford Explorers, which were an easy swap in that moves easily double the air the OEM solution did. But after 3 years with an explorer fan, and 3 explorer clutches toast (two OEM and one aftermarket), I finally threw in the towel, and said to [HECK] with it, and started researching electric fans that could be swapped in as a direct replacement for the entire two-fan system. Fortunately, I was not the only WJ owner on this quest at the time, so group consensus partnered with real world experience.
Aside from this, I had some other bits & pieces I wanted to add anyways, to it was just a matter of collecting everything together and installing it all methodically. It's the first time I've really had a chance to add mods and parts without a time limit. All in all, it took about 7 days for me to do everything. I spent a lit of time planning and measuring wire runs, and I created a complete harness for everything- color coded and all! Loomed it, and snaked everything into place. All in all, I'm quite pleased with everything thus far. Summertime of course will be the true test, but so far everything is looking great!
I ended up needing to replace the radiator due to seepage from around the areas where the fins mate into the main tanks. I'm considering taking the old radiator to a shop to see if I can have it repaired or re-cored.
Aside from a new radiator, I also picked up a "Worley" branded fan shroud (It comes with a fan, but I was a wee bit sketched out by a super cheap fan). I opted again for an all aluminum, 2-core radiator. Many opt for a SPAL branded electric fan, however I opted for a Flex-A-Lite model(238), since I was going to use one of their adjustable fan controllers anyways (31165). Given that I already had the front end torn down, I also opted to replace my Gates (metal impeller) water pump for a FlowKooler water pump. These ones have a slightly different impeller design, which could be described as both "larger" and "more aggressive." They claim that this design change allows the system to cycle coolant faster and generate higher head pressures, however I don't really have any tools to test this. I've heard good things from others with this pump, so I figured I'd give it a shot with all of the other things I was doing anyways.
Did you know silicon coolant hoses require special worm-drive clamp? Standard hose clamps will chew them up. Also seen are the Oil temp sender unit, and the Coolant sender as well. I added a cheap seal between the shroud and the radiator to dampen vibrations and also better direct airflow.
I also installed a 3 gauge pod from Lo-Tek inc, with a couple of Glowshift gauges, particularly Oil and trans temp. The third pod may eventually hold something like an airbag controller, or information display.
ohh, shiny! The Lo-Tek 3-gauge pod matches into the Jeep very well, but the mounting holes are not placed very logically. Some finagling will be required.
The Oil temperature is pulled from a sensor inline to the oil cooler, shortly before it. The trans temp sensor is also located inline shortly before the cooler.
As great as the fan does at pulling air, the real star of the show is, without a doubt, the fan controller. This Flex-A-Lite unit has some great features other than simply turning the fan on at a fixed temperature. It also:
-Has a "Soft Start" feature (waits to initialize the temp monitoring until the vehicle has been in "run" for 6 seconds)
-Adjustable temperature
-Soft fan start (Starts the fan at 60% power and ramps it up as necessary)
-"Cooldown" feature (runs the fan for 30sec after the vehicle is shut off)
-A/C Bypass (Turns on fan @ 100% power when A/C is on)
-Fan Bypass- Force fan ON
-Fan Bypass- Force fan OFF (AKA "Water crossing" mode)
I installed two switches for the FORCE settings, controlling the ON/OFF bypass modes, I also installed an LED indicator light to show when the fan is running. This is wired inline with the fan itsself.
With so many connections running between the engine bay, dash, and A-pillar, I decided to make up a proper harness, color coded it, and split it into 3 separate sections. It made it easier to run so many wires at once, kept the space down, and also made it easier to document the wires. Dash cam power was also re-routed to this harness, cutting that wiring down as well. I may need to go back and re-do previous wiring jobs with this methodology in the future!
I was in the final planning stages for the last section of harness here. The wires up front run to Power for the fan controller, the fan, and signal & ground for the trans temp sensor. you can B A R E L Y see the loomed harness coming in from the dash, inside of the driver side headlight support. I also took down my headlight assemblies and replaced the marker lamps with Sylvania ZEVO LED bulbs. They weren't kidding when they say "Super Bright!"
With everything function tested, with no leaks, I was able to add in my final addition... fresh rubber!
With the Kanati Trail Hog A/Ts on the verge of death after 5 years of abuse, it was time for an upgrade! I managed to get a deal with these Thunderer Trac Grip M/Ts at 35/12.50/R17E!
So far, surprisingly quiet for an M/T tire!
Monday was also my 9th year anniversary of owning this rig, so it seems like perfect timing for something that makes 'er look so fresh again!
I also have an upgraded IRO adjustable A-Arm waiting to go in, I just ran out of time this week. I've decided to stay short arm on the rear since it still suits my needs just fine.
Aside from this, I had some other bits & pieces I wanted to add anyways, to it was just a matter of collecting everything together and installing it all methodically. It's the first time I've really had a chance to add mods and parts without a time limit. All in all, it took about 7 days for me to do everything. I spent a lit of time planning and measuring wire runs, and I created a complete harness for everything- color coded and all! Loomed it, and snaked everything into place. All in all, I'm quite pleased with everything thus far. Summertime of course will be the true test, but so far everything is looking great!
I ended up needing to replace the radiator due to seepage from around the areas where the fins mate into the main tanks. I'm considering taking the old radiator to a shop to see if I can have it repaired or re-cored.
Aside from a new radiator, I also picked up a "Worley" branded fan shroud (It comes with a fan, but I was a wee bit sketched out by a super cheap fan). I opted again for an all aluminum, 2-core radiator. Many opt for a SPAL branded electric fan, however I opted for a Flex-A-Lite model(238), since I was going to use one of their adjustable fan controllers anyways (31165). Given that I already had the front end torn down, I also opted to replace my Gates (metal impeller) water pump for a FlowKooler water pump. These ones have a slightly different impeller design, which could be described as both "larger" and "more aggressive." They claim that this design change allows the system to cycle coolant faster and generate higher head pressures, however I don't really have any tools to test this. I've heard good things from others with this pump, so I figured I'd give it a shot with all of the other things I was doing anyways.
Did you know silicon coolant hoses require special worm-drive clamp? Standard hose clamps will chew them up. Also seen are the Oil temp sender unit, and the Coolant sender as well. I added a cheap seal between the shroud and the radiator to dampen vibrations and also better direct airflow.
I also installed a 3 gauge pod from Lo-Tek inc, with a couple of Glowshift gauges, particularly Oil and trans temp. The third pod may eventually hold something like an airbag controller, or information display.
ohh, shiny! The Lo-Tek 3-gauge pod matches into the Jeep very well, but the mounting holes are not placed very logically. Some finagling will be required.
The Oil temperature is pulled from a sensor inline to the oil cooler, shortly before it. The trans temp sensor is also located inline shortly before the cooler.
As great as the fan does at pulling air, the real star of the show is, without a doubt, the fan controller. This Flex-A-Lite unit has some great features other than simply turning the fan on at a fixed temperature. It also:
-Has a "Soft Start" feature (waits to initialize the temp monitoring until the vehicle has been in "run" for 6 seconds)
-Adjustable temperature
-Soft fan start (Starts the fan at 60% power and ramps it up as necessary)
-"Cooldown" feature (runs the fan for 30sec after the vehicle is shut off)
-A/C Bypass (Turns on fan @ 100% power when A/C is on)
-Fan Bypass- Force fan ON
-Fan Bypass- Force fan OFF (AKA "Water crossing" mode)
I installed two switches for the FORCE settings, controlling the ON/OFF bypass modes, I also installed an LED indicator light to show when the fan is running. This is wired inline with the fan itsself.
With so many connections running between the engine bay, dash, and A-pillar, I decided to make up a proper harness, color coded it, and split it into 3 separate sections. It made it easier to run so many wires at once, kept the space down, and also made it easier to document the wires. Dash cam power was also re-routed to this harness, cutting that wiring down as well. I may need to go back and re-do previous wiring jobs with this methodology in the future!
I was in the final planning stages for the last section of harness here. The wires up front run to Power for the fan controller, the fan, and signal & ground for the trans temp sensor. you can B A R E L Y see the loomed harness coming in from the dash, inside of the driver side headlight support. I also took down my headlight assemblies and replaced the marker lamps with Sylvania ZEVO LED bulbs. They weren't kidding when they say "Super Bright!"
With everything function tested, with no leaks, I was able to add in my final addition... fresh rubber!
With the Kanati Trail Hog A/Ts on the verge of death after 5 years of abuse, it was time for an upgrade! I managed to get a deal with these Thunderer Trac Grip M/Ts at 35/12.50/R17E!
So far, surprisingly quiet for an M/T tire!
Monday was also my 9th year anniversary of owning this rig, so it seems like perfect timing for something that makes 'er look so fresh again!
I also have an upgraded IRO adjustable A-Arm waiting to go in, I just ran out of time this week. I've decided to stay short arm on the rear since it still suits my needs just fine.
Advocate I
Thanks for the post,! Just yesterday I just updated my build thread describing the limits I found last August with the stock 99 electric/mechanical system I went to.
I have been considering either modifying or just dumping the stock electric and clutch fan, and going to exact setup you just went to. I had the same suspicion the Worley fan was probably substandard at best, the e-bay adds offer nothing on specs for it. I'm using the same controller as you as well to control the stock electric, so it should do just fine on this conversion. Also when I did my mod I didn't find a FlowKooler pump, either I missed it or it is new. Do you have a part number for it? Lastly, what 2 row radiator did you buy? I was a bit turned off since most of the e-bay adds do not say if they include the trans cooler line adapters.
I have been considering either modifying or just dumping the stock electric and clutch fan, and going to exact setup you just went to. I had the same suspicion the Worley fan was probably substandard at best, the e-bay adds offer nothing on specs for it. I'm using the same controller as you as well to control the stock electric, so it should do just fine on this conversion. Also when I did my mod I didn't find a FlowKooler pump, either I missed it or it is new. Do you have a part number for it? Lastly, what 2 row radiator did you buy? I was a bit turned off since most of the e-bay adds do not say if they include the trans cooler line adapters.
Member II
Well, I'll even do you a solid one better, I'll throw some links at you!
Here's the FlowKooler water pump, P/N 1751
I went for a rad from Ebay user CHR Racing, which was in fact a radiator made by GPIRAD in Cambodia. It did arrive with the thread adapters for the transmission cooler, so the lines threaded on without much issue. Please note, these are aluminum as well, so I didn't get them super tight.
Of course, the Worley shroud you are already aware of, and same goes for the fan controller!
And finally, banking in at 3,000CFM, the Flex-A-Lite Mod. 238 16" "LoBoy" cooling fan
I just read through your Oregon story regarding the issues you encountered with your cooling system, and it sounds pretty inline with my own experiences when I was running the OEM fan clutch. I'd tell you the Ford 11 blade fan is an option, but with the "rounded" shroud our rigs have (unlike the newer hydraulic fan shrouds) it doesn't fit well. And that shroud also fits quite terribly on the aftermarket radiators, leaving a very large amount of air to come in around the radiator rather than through it. I was so frustrated with the major gaps in the OEM shroud that I even went as far as adding a cheap adhesive seal to the Worley shroud just to make sure it actually seated to the radiator itself better. Don't get me wrong, the Ford 11 blade solution worked- it kept my rig running during several days last summer in the mid to high 130's- I just feel like it didn't consistently solve the issue, and I'm all about consistency! The biggest reason I decided to strike this off of the docket was actually practicality. In 2.5 years of having the ford fan mod active, I went through 2 Ford OEM clutches and 1 aftermarket one. The added size of the 11 blade fan made it incredibly inconvenient to work on anything around it, and it made it remarkably more difficult to replace fan clutches to the point that it's actually easier to remove the radiator and shroud altogether just to make that "simple" task really doable at all. I feel like you are definitely moving in the right direction to delete the OEM "Dual fan" solution if you go with one of these thicker radiators. So far, we've only had days as hot as the 70s-80s, but I've had less "needle bounce" over the last week of testing than I had on the week before, on the ford fan/clutch system. Along with a thermostat set to open at 180 (MOTORAD 420180, available on rockauto for like $12) I have the new electric fan set to start at 185. So far, it starts, stays there, and hasn't had to ramp up to maintain that temp. We'll see how it does in the hotter months, and also how it performs with the A/C running.
Here's the FlowKooler water pump, P/N 1751
I went for a rad from Ebay user CHR Racing, which was in fact a radiator made by GPIRAD in Cambodia. It did arrive with the thread adapters for the transmission cooler, so the lines threaded on without much issue. Please note, these are aluminum as well, so I didn't get them super tight.
Of course, the Worley shroud you are already aware of, and same goes for the fan controller!
And finally, banking in at 3,000CFM, the Flex-A-Lite Mod. 238 16" "LoBoy" cooling fan
I just read through your Oregon story regarding the issues you encountered with your cooling system, and it sounds pretty inline with my own experiences when I was running the OEM fan clutch. I'd tell you the Ford 11 blade fan is an option, but with the "rounded" shroud our rigs have (unlike the newer hydraulic fan shrouds) it doesn't fit well. And that shroud also fits quite terribly on the aftermarket radiators, leaving a very large amount of air to come in around the radiator rather than through it. I was so frustrated with the major gaps in the OEM shroud that I even went as far as adding a cheap adhesive seal to the Worley shroud just to make sure it actually seated to the radiator itself better. Don't get me wrong, the Ford 11 blade solution worked- it kept my rig running during several days last summer in the mid to high 130's- I just feel like it didn't consistently solve the issue, and I'm all about consistency! The biggest reason I decided to strike this off of the docket was actually practicality. In 2.5 years of having the ford fan mod active, I went through 2 Ford OEM clutches and 1 aftermarket one. The added size of the 11 blade fan made it incredibly inconvenient to work on anything around it, and it made it remarkably more difficult to replace fan clutches to the point that it's actually easier to remove the radiator and shroud altogether just to make that "simple" task really doable at all. I feel like you are definitely moving in the right direction to delete the OEM "Dual fan" solution if you go with one of these thicker radiators. So far, we've only had days as hot as the 70s-80s, but I've had less "needle bounce" over the last week of testing than I had on the week before, on the ford fan/clutch system. Along with a thermostat set to open at 180 (MOTORAD 420180, available on rockauto for like $12) I have the new electric fan set to start at 185. So far, it starts, stays there, and hasn't had to ramp up to maintain that temp. We'll see how it does in the hotter months, and also how it performs with the A/C running.
Member II
So today I decided to take the rig for a test spin, just to see how it would perform under sustained load on our first day in the triple-digits. One of the great things (and one of the worst things, sometimes) about living here is all of the hills and steep climbs a vehicle has to make under acceleration or in a sustained manner. That's partly why most major auto manufacturers will actually use this area as a testbench for figuring out cooling systems on early model & prototype vehicles. I decided to put the Jeep through it's paces, and test out the new cooling system. I used a route I call the "torture loop" because it includes a mixture of sustained hill climbs, stop/start points in awkward places, highway speeds, street speeds, smooth/rough roads, etc. In reality, this loop does a great job of testing cooling, suspension, brakes, and tires all at once! I actually have some metrics to compare to, and for each of the recording "points" I generated when I was testing the last cooling revamp, the Jeep actually scored around 10-15 degrees cooler than it did previously! The new gauges also provide some excellent insight into what the transmission and oil are doing during these tests.
The Good:
The electric fan system. It does an excellent job of ramping up and down to control the temperature of the engine, and appears to sit right around 190-195 degrees under street driving, where load is sustained (minimal stops, throttle open, minimal braking. 45-55 MPH). The cooling system only peaked at 215 for a moment during a climb which required hard acceleration, and this temperature actually dropped halfway through this. I'm thinking the radiator had to bleed some coolant or air when this happened? After this, another, steeper sustained climb only provoked a response of 210.
The tires. The new Thunderer Trac Grip M/Ts I replaced the Kanati Trail Hogs with are a welcome change. The Kanatis performed excellently, however were quickly succumbing to road noise and wandering with their end-of-life. The Thunderers are quiet, and dont particularly track into the grooves of the road, so the rig is very easy to control currently.
The Bad:
The OEM Transmission cooler: This one gets a U for unsatisfactory from me. Now that I can actually watch the transmission temps, I can tell you this dinky little think doesn't cut it for the short, crawl-y bursts this rig is used to. It does ok-is cooling the trans when the vehicle over 65MPH, but leaves a lot to be desired if your rig lives around 50MPH. The 545RFE spec sheet shows nominal temp around 175-210, with 230 being the "caution zone." On this run, the trans cooler read out around the 200 mark, moving all the way to 220 during one of the sustained hill climbs, to promptly drop down again afterwards. The only time it really performed adequately was during a jolt at 65 MPH, where it held the temp between 180 and 200. Please note, some WJs are outfitted with a tiny aux cooler, inline with the in-radiator cooling. I'll probably replace this aux cooler with something larger, perhaps the size of the Hayden oil cooler I installed previously? I don't think that would hurt.
Overloading in the rear half of the suspension. With all the weight migrated to the rear of the vehicle, it has a visible bias towards the rear. I'm thinking new, heavier-rate rear coils to balance everything out. It does get a little fiddly currently when coasting, though it is manageable. One way or another, I need to level out the rear, and add more weight to the front.
All in all, not too shabby for about an hours worth of driving. This loop is great for determining how things are performing, and how things should be changed.
The Good:
The electric fan system. It does an excellent job of ramping up and down to control the temperature of the engine, and appears to sit right around 190-195 degrees under street driving, where load is sustained (minimal stops, throttle open, minimal braking. 45-55 MPH). The cooling system only peaked at 215 for a moment during a climb which required hard acceleration, and this temperature actually dropped halfway through this. I'm thinking the radiator had to bleed some coolant or air when this happened? After this, another, steeper sustained climb only provoked a response of 210.
The tires. The new Thunderer Trac Grip M/Ts I replaced the Kanati Trail Hogs with are a welcome change. The Kanatis performed excellently, however were quickly succumbing to road noise and wandering with their end-of-life. The Thunderers are quiet, and dont particularly track into the grooves of the road, so the rig is very easy to control currently.
The Bad:
The OEM Transmission cooler: This one gets a U for unsatisfactory from me. Now that I can actually watch the transmission temps, I can tell you this dinky little think doesn't cut it for the short, crawl-y bursts this rig is used to. It does ok-is cooling the trans when the vehicle over 65MPH, but leaves a lot to be desired if your rig lives around 50MPH. The 545RFE spec sheet shows nominal temp around 175-210, with 230 being the "caution zone." On this run, the trans cooler read out around the 200 mark, moving all the way to 220 during one of the sustained hill climbs, to promptly drop down again afterwards. The only time it really performed adequately was during a jolt at 65 MPH, where it held the temp between 180 and 200. Please note, some WJs are outfitted with a tiny aux cooler, inline with the in-radiator cooling. I'll probably replace this aux cooler with something larger, perhaps the size of the Hayden oil cooler I installed previously? I don't think that would hurt.
Overloading in the rear half of the suspension. With all the weight migrated to the rear of the vehicle, it has a visible bias towards the rear. I'm thinking new, heavier-rate rear coils to balance everything out. It does get a little fiddly currently when coasting, though it is manageable. One way or another, I need to level out the rear, and add more weight to the front.
All in all, not too shabby for about an hours worth of driving. This loop is great for determining how things are performing, and how things should be changed.
Advocate I
Member II
Well, I finally got the IRO A-Arm I bought LAST FREAKIN' YEAR installed. I managed to also install the flex joint upgrade on it, so the A-Arm is completely rebuildable, and rubber bushing free! On a side note, trying to remove the old A-Arm ball joint with a box end wrench and brute strength, I managed to pop my back (which has been out for the last week). Sometimes you fix the Jeep, sometimes the Jeep fixes you! 
The old A-Arm bushings and ball joint were completely trashed. The bushings were wallowed out to the point that it had actually developed slop when braking or accelerating. The entire axle would not only shift, but also cause the entire rear end to slightly walk all over the road. I stopped driving the Jeep for a while, I waited for the weather to cool down enough to work on. I took on the task of adding a cooling fan to my Joying android headunit. Being an older model, it is based on the Rockchip PX5 CPU, which is notorious for overheating issues. A simple mod that can be done mostly in the shade of the garage! The saving grace is Joying's custom main board design, which has a decent cooling solution built in, just needs some air on it, especially in our summer.
Overall, the Jeep is driving much better with the new A-Arm in place. Now that the entire suspension has been effectively replaced, all clunks and noise has been eliminated. First time in a long time.
Now I can focus on what is wrong with the A/C again...
The old A-Arm bushings and ball joint were completely trashed. The bushings were wallowed out to the point that it had actually developed slop when braking or accelerating. The entire axle would not only shift, but also cause the entire rear end to slightly walk all over the road. I stopped driving the Jeep for a while, I waited for the weather to cool down enough to work on. I took on the task of adding a cooling fan to my Joying android headunit. Being an older model, it is based on the Rockchip PX5 CPU, which is notorious for overheating issues. A simple mod that can be done mostly in the shade of the garage! The saving grace is Joying's custom main board design, which has a decent cooling solution built in, just needs some air on it, especially in our summer.
Overall, the Jeep is driving much better with the new A-Arm in place. Now that the entire suspension has been effectively replaced, all clunks and noise has been eliminated. First time in a long time.
Now I can focus on what is wrong with the A/C again...
