Another HAM vs GMRS question

[Billy Hung]

So.. I've been doing a lot of reading, prepping for my tech test, even ordered a mobile unit to put in my vehicle ahead of time. Every time the question is ask about which way to go: CB, HAM, GMRS, people seem to almost scream HAM. So that's the route I went. There are just so many pro's to it. Longer distances, more frequencies, APRS, etc.

BUT from what I can tell after further digging is that HAM is really meant for radio hobbyist who talk about their equipment more than communicate. My purpose for this whole thing is communication with buddies I am traveling with, and during hikes where someone remains at camp. It seems like HAM is not suited for this as the communication is much more structured. You get on a frequency, wait to see if anyone is already using it. You check in with your call sign (you have to do this every 10 minutes or someone might report you) you say what you need and sign off. It a nutshell it does not seem very user friendly. The capabilities are all their, LONG distance communication; but I'm not supposed to use it like a walkie talkie?

Or am I missing something? Maybe the first HAMs are retiring and a new generation is coming online: overland crowd, off-roaders, etc. At this point I am switching gears and getting GMRS for communication and a handheld HAM for emergency communication along with my inReach.

 

[Ubiety]

I think you have it right - on both counts. HAM is intended for folks to play with and experiment with and follow the rules. So is it ok to use you HAM radio to chat while overlandingcamping? That is mostly what I use mine for. As far as following the rules... Yes you are supposed to announce yourself before/after/every 10 minutes. In practice that is great for a busy repeater in the city; however in the middle of nowhere on low power and not interfering with others? I think that you will find that folks relax a little bit and the HAM transitions into a "walkie talkie" like you point out.

Congrats on your interest and studies! Let us know when you pass! And make HAM radio yours!

 

[J.W.]

You are asking good questions and I’ll try to address all of the points.

First and foremost, Ham radio is about communication and you can absolutely use it like a walkie talkie but you do have to give your call sign for ID about every 10 minutes of use. Yes, a lot of people get on there and talk about equipment and have. designated times when they discuss various topics (known as Nets). That being said, there are a LOT of frequencies out there. If you want to talk to a specific person and not be bothered, simply find an open frequency to use. With GMRS you are limited to certain channels (which correspond to specific frequencies) to talk to people. I believe there are 22 channels that are usable and only a half dozen or so of those are eligible for full power GMRS use. With a Tech license, you will have more freedom to pick your frequencies and you will have more wattage available over a broader range of frequencies.

Ham is likely going to be more useful in an emergency but that is always dependent on the situation. All of the pros and cons mean very little compared to one simple question: What do the people you want to talk with use? If they all use GMRS already, then that is probably the rout to go. I have yet to hear any actual traffic on GMRS when I’ve been out and about but it does seem to be getting popular on the forums and IG so that may change in the future. I know people do use it but for now, I think the tech license is more viable.

 

[Ubiety]

What do the people you want to talk with use?

That is the key question! I agree with @J.W. - you are asking the right questions.

I believe that you are supposed to be licensed (pay a fee) for GMRS use? The rules are not in place to make the process more onerous, they are there to make sure everybody gets a chance to take part in a sane way (think city repeater).
I don't particularly enjoy NETs or repeaters or talking about ham gear either (via RF). I do really enjoy being able to communicate with my caravan and HAM just works best for us. Our conversations tend to be "party line" and ebb and flow; but taking a couple of seconds every few transmissions to blurt out your call is not really a big deal.

 

[J.W.]

I believe that you are supposed to be licensed (pay a fee) for GMRS use?

I’m glad you mentioned that. GMRS cost about $70 for a license, Ham is free. If you don’t know what you will be using right now, start with Ham, it cost nothing to get the license. If you find you want GMRS after that, go for it! Nothing wrong with having both.

 

[Ubiety]

I’m glad you mentioned that. GMRS cost about $70 for a license, Ham is free. If you don’t know what you will be using right now, start with Ham, it cost nothing to get the license. If you find you want GMRS after that, go for it! Nothing wrong with having both.

My buddy just tested for and passed his general. He reminded me that there is typically a small testing fee for the HAM test(s) (~$25)

 

[J.W.]

There is no fee for the license but you are right (I forgot), some clubs charge a fee for their time giving the test. $25 seems to be the norm for clubs that offer the test monthly. I’m lucky because there are at least 3 clubs local to me that do not charge a fee.

 

[J.W.]

Also, to OPs question about older Hams, yes, there are 1 or 2 retirees on the air haha! They are the ones with the time to play. I’ll be honest, there is nothing worse that rolling into a weekly net and hearing a roll call of ailments and doctor’s visits. But apparently some people like to talk about that stuff at length. Luckily, that is not all there is on the air. The Overland Bound net on Friday nights is a good one - though I do wish we could move it to another night because Friday night is tough to make. There are also always a Lot of weather and storm chasing nets. Most of those happen on repeaters or HF though. If you’re looking for emergency comms and simplex walkie talkie use, you won’t have to worry about talking with John Doe about his bunions.

 

[M Rose]

So to address @Billy Hung :
Let me explain why I chose my coms options. I started with CB, because several years ago it was needed when i worked as a field mechanic for several logging operations. The CB radio allowed me to stay in communication with the equipment operators, truck drivers, and the choke setters. But out here I found little use for the CB if I am not in a logging area. So it spends its time on logging frequencies with the squelch turned all the way up unless that rare case someone else is running one in my group is using one.

I then heard about GRMS, started looking around for repeaters in the area to get The longer ranges, but found out that hardly any one out here has switched to GRMS, although most have switched to FRMS.

Since GRMS isn’t used in my area very much, even less than CB, I started looking into Ham. I found that no matter where I am in the area I explore I will have range to a repeater. Now even if every one in my convoy is running a cheap FRMS radio, I can still call out for help through the Ham. Then I found out that most of my local ham club are also into camping, now my trail coms have gone from 0 to everyone.

Now that I am a Member Rep, I am going on more organized trail runs. And I personally am going to be running all three in my Bronco. That way no one is left out of the loop.

You mentioned having to use your call sign, length of calls, and such on Ham. The part you didn’t mention is that on Ham, you can also adjust the power used. If you turn the power down to 5 watts or less (with you should do in tight convoys any way). Then the length of conversations doesn’t become such a big deal. But it really doesn’t matter about using your call sign at the beginning and of each transmission as that is “normal” radio etiquette. It doesn’t matter if you are using Walki-Talki, FMRS, GMRS, CB, or Ham, you still have to announce your self and the person you are trying to reach during each transmission. You also have to check to make sure the frequency is clear before you start talking. I mean would you run into a board meeting and start talking to the room Right in the middle of some ones speech. I think not. No matter which type of radio you are using, you are just in a large room wanting to communicate with those that are in the room as well.

Now onto trail radio etiquette:
I don’t like chatty nets on my trail runs. Coms is for making sure the convoy makes it to the checkpoint, announce road hazards, inform the lead that there has been a break down, speed of convoy is changing. It is not to hold long conversations about the ninja squirrels doing backflips along the convoy route. Now you can make note of the ninja squirrel that is about to jump into the path of the convoy to protect said squirrel. But it doesn’t take ten minutes to say the squirrel is jumping I front or your rig.

 

[M Rose]

There is no fee for the license but you are right (I forgot), some clubs charge a fee for their time giving the test. $25 seems to be the norm for clubs that offer the test monthly. I’m lucky because there are at least 3 clubs local to me that do not charge a fee.

Ham does cost for each test... each test site is different, mine cost $15 per test session and last 10 years, but is free for the renewal. Had I gone from zero to extra in one session it would have been $15.00 , but since I didn’t get my General, I have to go back and pay another $15 to retake my General and try for my extra. If I fail my extra, I would then have to pay another 15 to test for the extra. But then again all renewals would be free.

 

[Billy Hung]

Hi. First of all I want to say thank you all for the warm welcome/answers. I was half expecting some umm.. less then pleasant banter with the way the WWW is these days. So yeah, appreciate the patience shown from everyone!

Back on topic. So is it fair to say that out away from heavy populated areas, like forest, campsites, etc, people are a bit more lax on radio transmission decorum/rules/laws? Would it be reasonable to think that on the way to such places, my buddy and I can find a unused frequency, call in, and leave ourselves on that frequency for the trip reporting in once in a while? We both travel with children and sometimes there are only a few bathrooms along the route so stopping in time is important. Once at a secluded place we would be able to chat a bit more freely?

Local fee for tech test seems to be $15. Hence why I still plan on getting my technician license regardless of the direction I go. The other part that interested me about GMRS is that its $90 for the whole family to get licensed. But again, its so much weaker from what I understand that it would not serve that one purpose of communication well let alone the many others HAM can (GPS location, APRS). But its nice that I won't have to "persuade" my wife to study and get her technician license..

I am the first in my small group to start looking into radios as an alternative/emergency communication system so we are not tied to any particular system yet. Again I was strongly convinced HAM was the way to go. My only hesitation is in the rigidness of its use.

 

[Billy Hung]

So to address @Billy Hung :
Let me explain why I chose my coms options. I started with CB, because several years ago it was needed when i worked as a field mechanic for several logging operations. The CB radio allowed me to stay in communication with the equipment operators, truck drivers, and the choke setters. But out here I found little use for the CB if I am not in a ...

I did not think about the power usage. I am obviously fairly oblivious to many of these concepts but I'll give it a shot. I am assuming that by using less power, you are not broadcasting as far. And if you are not broadcasting as far there is less chance of you intruding on someone, and less chance someone outside the group is listening in on you which leads to less chance of anyone caring if you are following all the rules?

I served in the military for a bit of time so can completely understand the point you are making. Don't jump on and just start chatting away. And in any case, keep the chatting to zero as its for communication. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[J.W.]

The rules and regulations for chatting are very similar for Ham and GMRS so don’t get bogged down with worrying about getting in trouble for chatting. As long as you aren’t keeping some other party from communicating, you won’t have any issues just talking with friends. Saying your ID as part of the conversation becomes habit and isn’t tough at all. And yes, it’s a best practice to use the lowest power needed to complete your connection. That keeps others from bothering you and you from bothering others.

I have not had to pay anything for either my Tech or General license (our VEC decided not to set a fee) and there is no fee for my Advanced but I realize that not everyone can find a club offering the exams for free. $15 seems pretty reasoable for all that the license allows you to do. Also, be aware that if you pass your Tech exam, you can take the General right then and there (if time allows). So you could save a few dollars that way.

 

[Ubiety]

Now onto trail radio etiquette:
I don’t like chatty nets on my trail runs.

Agree that keeping things short and concise is important but I really enjoy the “playful banter” over the radio on a road trip. That said I am usually with the same guys I have been doing this with forever so we know how to make fun of each other and push things nearly over the edge ;)

 

[JeepGuy91]

So.. I've been doing a lot of reading, prepping for my tech test, even ordered a mobile unit to put in my vehicle ahead of time. Every time the question is ask about which way to go: CB, HAM, GMRS, people seem to almost scream HAM. So that's the route I went. There are just so many pro's to it. Longer distances, more frequencies, APRS, etc.

BUT from what I can tell after further digging is that HAM is really meant for radio hobbyist who talk about their equipment more than communicate. My purpose for this whole thing is communication with buddies I am traveling with, and during hikes where someone remains at camp. It seems like HAM is not suited for this as the communication is much more structured. You get on a frequency, wait to see if anyone is already using it. You check in with your call sign (you have to do this every 10 minutes or someone might report you) you say what you need and sign off. It a nutshell it does not seem very user friendly. The capabilities are all their, LONG distance communication; but I'm not supposed to use it like a walkie talkie?

Or am I missing something? Maybe the first HAMs are retiring and a new generation is coming online: overland crowd, off-roaders, etc. At this point I am switching gears and getting GMRS for communication and a handheld HAM for emergency communication along with my inReach.

I think amateur radio is like any other hobby or interest. Everyone has their thing that interests them most. Yes, there are some people that like to make contact, discuss what equipment they have and move on. There are people into distance contests on HF. Obviously there are people who use it to further other goals such as emergency preparedness or overlanding. I personally lean towards the last two, but I also enjoy using it to talk with people in general. In fact, I often talk on simplex with a few people that work in a building near where I work. We talk about anything from traffic, to the weather, to current events in our personal lives. I also found a repeater that covers the local area and a whole bunch of guys will chat on there during their commutes. Conversation on there is similar in that it completely changes in topic every day.

I hope this helps reignite your interest in ham radio!

 

[Renegade]

I use CB/FRS/GMRS/HAM the same way for all. To Talk to those in my group. So I have to say my CS every 10 minutes, hardly a big deal.

 

[Billy Hung]

Thanks. Its encouraging to hear. I was pretty disheartened reading that the old folks like @J.W. only get on HAM to talk about equipment, politics, and the weather. Good to know I can actually use this "tool" for my intended purpose and have a side hobby with it as well.

I recall at least two sites in my early days of research that was like a HAM for Dummies guide. I cannot find those sites again. Can anyone point me towards some good research. Passing the test is the easy part to me. I want to actually know what the heck I am doing and prepping for the test did nothing..

 

[Renegade]

Thanks. Its encouraging to hear. I was pretty disheartened reading that the old folks like @J.W. only get on HAM to talk about equipment, politics, and the weather. Good to know I can actually use this "tool" for my intended purpose and have a side hobby with it as well.

I recall at least two sites in my early days of research that was like a HAM for Dummies guide. I cannot find those sites again. Can anyone point me towards some good research. Passing the test is the easy part to me. I want to actually know what the heck I am doing and prepping for the test did nothing..

HAM is great in big places like Big Bend and you can use a repeater to talk from one end of park to another in places with no cell service. Also the Dual Band feature so you can use your HH to talk to your vehicle to repeater is another feature.

 

[M Rose]

Thanks. Its encouraging to hear. I was pretty disheartened reading that the old folks like @J.W. only get on HAM to talk about equipment, politics, and the weather. Good to know I can actually use this "tool" for my intended purpose and have a side hobby with it as well.

I recall at least two sites in my early days of research that was like a HAM for Dummies guide. I cannot find those sites again. Can anyone point me towards some good research. Passing the test is the easy part to me. I want to actually know what the heck I am doing and prepping for the test did nothing..

Www.HamStudyGuide.org

 

[J.W.]

Thanks. Its encouraging to hear. I was pretty disheartened reading that the old folks like @J.W. only get on HAM to talk about equipment, politics, and the weather. Good to know I can actually use this "tool" for my intended purpose and have a side hobby with it as well.

Sorry I left the wrong impression. My comment was that there was a lot more to discuss on the air OTHER than ailments and politics. I do not like those discussions (Though the weather does interest me some).