Yup, it's another suspension question. But I desperately need your thoughts!

[WoofRunner]

Hi fellow overlanders,

After years of saving, I finally got my 4Runner (huzzah!). But tons of research have left me with a bit of analysis paralysis when it comes to the right suspension for my needs. So I thought I'd throw it to you, the people with more experience than me! Here (what I think) is everything you need to know:

• 2014 4Runner (no KDSS)
• This isn’t a daily driver. While I may go around to small places on the weekend with it (Target run, dog park, etc.), it’s mainly an adventure vehicle I’ll use on weekends to go to National Parks or Forests, or random trails for overlanding. So performance and capability off-road are most important.
• Usage: Getting there on highways (40% of the time), Overlanding (40%), Crawling (20%) - roughly.
• While I'd like to do some crawling, I'm not under any delusion that I'll be crawling the same way a Jeep would. I just want to know it can handle darn-near anything I throw at it (within reason) — while at the same time being comfortable for the long trip back home. It doesn't need to drive like a Camry (I don't mind a stiffer ride), just comfortable.
• Within a year (maybe less), I’ll be adding armor (rear bumper, maybe front bumper, skids, sliders), rear spare, and RTT. I might also add a storage system in the back, but definitely removing the rear seat, regardless. So I’m not sure if I should get heavier springs (like 700) now, or wait until I actually get the weight on.
• I’d most likely go with 33-inch tires, as performance difference between them and 35-inch seems negligible at best (however, I’m open to learn more if that’s not true). And I’ll be chopping the body to accommodate tires and articulation.
• Long travel interests me from a capability standpoint, but it seems like overkill for what I'm doing (plus the cost, ugh). So I'm sticking with mid-travel/extended travel for now.
• My main objective is enjoying the scenery — on the highway or off road. I don't really drive above 65 – 70 mph on the highway. And as much as hauling ass down a fire road or on a beach seems like fun, it's not the main purpose.

And here are the 2 options I'm leaning towards that I'd love your thoughts on based on my needs:

• Fox Stage 3. Example: 03+ 4Runner and 10+ FJ Cruiser Mid Travel Suspension Kit, Stage 3A - Fox | AccuTune Off-Road
• Old Man Emu BP-51. Example: OME-4RBP51 - Old Man Emu BP51 Suspension Kit 2.5-3" Lift Kit For 10+ 4Runner (No KDSS)

For the OME kit, I'd add Total Chaos UCAs, and swap the springs out for Dobinsons.

Basically that's it. I'd love your thoughts, feedback, things I should consider, or anything else you think would help me make this decision.

Thanks in advance!

 

[The other Sean]

I have no first hand knowledge with either company, but, where you live and how much you plan to service the suspension also plays in.

My truck is a daily driver and where I live we get long winters and loads of road salt, so, I chose NOT to go with any suspension parts with heim joints or externally threaded shock bodies. I was able to go with a "mid travel" setup on my Frontier by swapping Nissan Titan length OEM lower arms and SPC upper arms and used a mix of OEM style shock and springs to get the lift and 10" of wheel travel I wanted.

Did I lose a little adjustability? possibly. But, I have rubber or poly bushings all around, so no worries of mud and salt.

 

[WoofRunner]

I have no first hand knowledge with either company, but, where you live and how much you plan to service the suspension also plays in.

My truck is a daily driver and where I live we get long winters and loads of road salt, so, I chose NOT to go with any suspension parts with heim joints or externally threaded shock bodies. I was able to go with a "mid travel" setup on my Frontier by swapping Nissan Titan length OEM lower arms and SPC upper arms and used a mix of OEM style shock and springs to get the lift and 10" of wheel travel I wanted.

Did I lose a little adjustability? possibly. But, I have rubber or poly bushings all around, so no worries of mud and salt.

Yeah, it lives in California. As we overland and travel, I'm sure we'll encounter snow, mud, and salt (obviously). But it won't see those things on a daily basis. Thanks for the reply!

 

[mrseth]

For what you are wanting to do, resi-shocks will be for looks unless you are running your forest roads at 60+ mph hitting whoops. LT can be great in the mountains with the right setup, but at that point you will have more variables to worry about driveline angles, rub, and availability of locally sourced parts WHEN they break. If it were me, I'd buy a basic setup. Spend my money on a good set of upper control arms, CV shafts, BL, Coils, and basic shocks that are simple and durable.

For the shocks, they do look neat, but they also have more parts that can fail on you during your travels. OME makes some great products as well as Bilstein, which are able to be custom assembled with varying spring rates and load capacities based on your 4Runners needs. King makes good stuff, Toytec is going through a rough spot with their shocks shaft snapping, Dobinson is solid, ProComp is coming out with decent stuff nowadays at a competitive price, Rancho actually has a pretty good QuickLift assembled strut setup, and most of these can be bought at any 4WP stores located across the country.

I have run several vehicles with FOX 2.0, have worked on a few with ICON and KING. It seems like they wheel hard, the truck sits, then they need a re-valve or stuff just starts leaking. It turns out that buying the shocks is the cheap part lol. Go simple and durable.

Just my .02

 

[Boostpowered]

First off a jeep isnt the end all be all off rock crawling. With a small lift between 2 and 3 inch and some rock sliders and the nuts to do it you can crawl too no problem just plant to break,bend and scratch stuff it is part of the process. For shocks on your rig i cant help i dont know the handling characteristics and how you want the shocks to feel, if your not sure id suggest something that is adjustable so you can play with the valving to get it exactly how you want.

 

[WoofRunner]

For what you are wanting to do, resi-shocks will be for looks unless you are running your forest roads at 60+ mph hitting whoops. LT can be great in the mountains with the right setup, but at that point you will have more variables to worry about driveline angles, rub, and availability of locally sourced parts WHEN they break. If it were me, I'd buy a basic setup. Spend my money on a good set of upper control arms, CV shafts, BL, Coils, and basic shocks that are simple and durable.

For the shocks, they do look neat, but they also have more parts that can fail on you during your travels. OME makes some great products as well as Bilstein, which are able to be custom assembled with varying spring rates and load capacities based on your 4Runners needs. King makes good stuff, Toytec is going through a rough spot with their shocks shaft snapping, Dobinson is solid, ProComp is coming out with decent stuff nowadays at a competitive price, Rancho actually has a pretty good QuickLift assembled strut setup, and most of these can be bought at any 4WP stores located across the country.

I have run several vehicles with FOX 2.0, have worked on a few with ICON and KING. It seems like they wheel hard, the truck sits, then they need a re-valve or stuff just starts leaking. It turns out that buying the shocks is the cheap part lol. Go simple and durable.

Just my .02

Appreciate your 2¢. That's kind of where my head was at, too. But with analysis paralysis, validation is super helpful, too.

 

[WoofRunner]

First off a jeep isnt the end all be all off rock crawling. With a small lift between 2 and 3 inch and some rock sliders and the nuts to do it you can crawl too no problem just plant to break,bend and scratch stuff it is part of the process. For shocks on your rig i cant help i dont know the handling characteristics and how you want the shocks to feel, if your not sure id suggest something that is adjustable so you can play with the valving to get it exactly how you want.

Of course. I meant it more like Jeeps (as stock) are more capable of rock crawling better than an IFS. I'm sure my Runner, regardless of setup, will probably be more than capable of doing what I want from a crawling standpoint. If I ever really wanted to go crazy with it, I know I could! And yeah, adjustable is good — specifically rebound and compression — which is why I mentioned the BP-51 from OME as a serious option. :)

 

[Billiebob]

First change although everyone leaves it till last would be the right gearing for 33s and lockers probably done together either before or after the lift. OME makes a quality product for Jeeps, but I only assume they make good Toyota products.

What gearing is on the Toyota now and which transmission.

I'd honestly do selectable lockers before any other changes. They will make more of a difference off road, crawling around than any other changes.

 

[WoofRunner]

First change although everyone leaves it till last would be the right gearing for 33s and lockers probably done together either before or after the lift. OME makes a quality product for Jeeps, but I only assume they make good Toyota products.

What gearing is on the Toyota now and which transmission.

It's stock gearing right now. And I looked into re-gearing to 4.88, that doesn't really seem to be needed unless you go to 35s for tires (at least from what I've read). But I'm always down to be convinced otherwise! :)

 

[JCWages]

Are you doing the suspension install yourself? If so get the spring rate you need right now and worry about future mods later. If you go too high on spring rate without the extra weight you'll end up overlifted and the ride will be crap. My front end is currently too high and I can't drop it down any further without new lower rate springs. It's better to be "not as high as you'd like" than it is to be too high and ride like crap and lose all of your down travel.

 

[slomatt]

My advice is to keep the suspension stock for now and to take the truck out on various trails to get familiar with it. Regardless of the capability of our trucks there is always a trail that exceeds their limit, and it is good to learn the limits of your truck's stock ability and then modify it as needed. If your goal is to get out there and explore the scenery on some backroads then a stock 4Runner with good tires is a great way to do it. It is really easy to build a rig way beyond the capability of what we actually need, which costs money and adds a ton of weight to the vehicle negatively impacting handling and braking ability.

That said, I totally get that it is fun to modify our trucks and to plan a dream setup. If money is no object then there are many "Instagram recipes" out there for all the cool gear, and you'll wind up with an awesome truck but spend a lot of $$$. Assuming money is an object then the direction forward depends on what kinds of trails you want to run and what kind of future modifications you'll add.

If you want to be a rock crawler then it's all about traction (aggressive tires and lockers), clearance (big tires), articulation, and keeping the center of gravity low. Remote reservoir shocks are not helpful for rock crawling since the piston speeds aren't high enough to need the extra cooling.

If you want to drive high speed on bumps for extended periods of time then it's about suspension travel, bump stops, and shock cooling. This is where 2.5" shocks with reservoirs come in handy, with the downside that they may need to be removed and rebuilt every 10-15k miles.

If you plan to add skids, a RTT, cargo box, bumpers, etc in the future then those all inform the suspension choices you need to make today. And keep in mind that with all this on your truck and 33" tires you'll be looking at significantly decreased braking performance, reduced load carrying capacity, and about 15mpg max.


Hopefully this doesn't come across as me trying to dissuade you from building your rig, I'm just recommending an "upgrade as needed" mentality. Ultimately, I think most people would be perfectly fine with a good quality Bilstein, OME, or Dobinson's 2-3" lift, 32" or 33" tires, and rock sliders for most "overland" type trails in our area.

- Matt

 

[MOAK]

#1- Regearing companies have some folks convinced that it must be done. That’s great marketing, but if you aren’t going bigger than 35s save your money.
#2- don’t be mixing and attempting to match components from different brands.
#3- Fancy, expensive shocks are all fine and well if you are planning on tackling hundreds of mile stretches of nasty nasty washboard roads, (which here in the lower 48 do not exist) or if you are into off road racing and need the performance of high end shocks.
#4- I’ve been using OME suspensions for well over 200,000 miles on two different vehicles. I just recently replaced a set of the gas charged sport shocks, as the old ones had over 80,000 miles on em. They were still in great condition, but I replaced them as a PM because of an upcoming 10,000 mile round trip
#5- I’d definitely recommend OME and would also advice not going through your local vendor or any other 2nd party. The OME USA offices are in the PNW, call and ask for Duffy, he will not sell you something you do not need.. which reminds me of a story.. the very first OME kit I bought I went through a 2nd party vendor.. that guy strongly, forcibly recommended a part of his to corrrect the pan hard rod length. The OME kit had a correction bracket to be bolted then tack welded on. Finally I asked him if he thought OME was junk? He responded, of course not! They why do I need to replace their bracket with your unproven aftermarket junk? He hung up, I used another vendor.
You may ask why OME over Dobinson? Personal preference, I’m not going to switch out something that has worked really well for over 20 years.
#6- a mild lift, ( 2-3”) strong tires and rocker panel protection will get you on and through 99% of all two track trails in the lower 48 and Central, South & North America. Anything more is for either hard core rock crawling, ( which in my humble opinion is not overlanding ), mall crawling or to be used on a TDS.

 

[Billiebob]

It's stock gearing right now. And I looked into re-gearing to 4.88, that doesn't really seem to be needed unless you go to 35s for tires (at least from what I've read). But I'm always down to be convinced otherwise! :)

So I assume 3.73? Automatic, 5 speed double overdrive ? 0.59 5th gear ?

With what you say you want to do you will need to Regear.

grimmjeeper.com has an excellent gear ratio calculator.

 

[MazeVX]

My honest opinion, get the best suspension you can afford!
A vehicle may stay with you for years and only because your not doing something now doesn't mean you won't do it in the future.
In general, suspension that can handle speed and Baja style stuff can also crawl. Reservoir shocks usually allow more travel/uptravel and adjustability allows you for easier adaption of terrain or weight.

 

[Wanderlost]

Hi fellow overlanders,

After years of saving, I finally got my 4Runner (huzzah!). But tons of research have left me with a bit of analysis paralysis when it comes to the right suspension for my needs. So I thought I'd throw it to you, the people with more experience than me! Here (what I think) is everything you need to know:

• 2014 4Runner (no KDSS)
• This isn’t a daily driver. While I may go around to small places on the weekend with it (Target run, dog park, etc.), it’s mainly an adventure vehicle I’ll use on weekends to go to National Parks or Forests, or random trails for overlanding. So performance and capability off-road are most important.
• Usage: Getting there on highways (40% of the time), Overlanding (40%), Crawling (20%) - roughly.
• While I'd like to do some crawling, I'm not under any delusion that I'll be crawling the same way a Jeep would. I just want to know it can handle darn-near anything I throw at it (within reason) — while at the same time being comfortable for the long trip back home. It doesn't need to drive like a Camry (I don't mind a stiffer ride), just comfortable.
• Within a year (maybe less), I’ll be adding armor (rear bumper, maybe front bumper, skids, sliders), rear spare, and RTT. I might also add a storage system in the back, but definitely removing the rear seat, regardless. So I’m not sure if I should get heavier springs (like 700) now, or wait until I actually get the weight on.
• I’d most likely go with 33-inch tires, as performance difference between them and 35-inch seems negligible at best (however, I’m open to learn more if that’s not true). And I’ll be chopping the body to accommodate tires and articulation.
• Long travel interests me from a capability standpoint, but it seems like overkill for what I'm doing (plus the cost, ugh). So I'm sticking with mid-travel/extended travel for now.
• My main objective is enjoying the scenery — on the highway or off road. I don't really drive above 65 – 70 mph on the highway. And as much as hauling ass down a fire road or on a beach seems like fun, it's not the main purpose.

And here are the 2 options I'm leaning towards that I'd love your thoughts on based on my needs:

• Fox Stage 3. Example: 03+ 4Runner and 10+ FJ Cruiser Mid Travel Suspension Kit, Stage 3A - Fox | AccuTune Off-Road
• Old Man Emu BP-51. Example: OME-4RBP51 - Old Man Emu BP51 Suspension Kit 2.5-3" Lift Kit For 10+ 4Runner (No KDSS)

For the OME kit, I'd add Total Chaos UCAs, and swap the springs out for Dobinsons.

Basically that's it. I'd love your thoughts, feedback, things I should consider, or anything else you think would help me make this decision.

Thanks in advance!

It's great to see you being honest with yourself on what your intentions are with your build. That's very rare.

We've been building and using the heck out of the newer Toyota platform for many years. Here's what we've learned in regard to your questions:

* Great to see you don't have KDSS. Some people swear by the system. We believe simple is better, with fewer components to break.

* You'd be surprised at how comfortable a trail built rig can be on the pavement, if done up right. There will be those that will try to convince you to remove the swaybars. Although without them there's a small increase in articulation, there's a big price to pay on pavement. Knowing they're missing, you'll be able to compensate under controlled conditions. It's when you're driving 60+mph and have to do a sudden maneuver (swerve) to avoid something. The possibility of a roll-over is much more likely.

* The limits of our IFS is largely exaggerated. While it's true we have to be a bit more agile, taking different lines then a Jeep will. We've seen more twisted front drive shafts on Jeeps then broken Toyota CVs.

* Go with the heavier springs right away. It's hard to resell the lighter springs.

* 33" tires are as big as you can go without a bunch of cutting and pounding. You will need to do a body mount chop and push the inner fender forward in front of the front tires. Also thicker bumpstops in the rear. Although it would bring back some of the "off the line" acceleration, regearing is definitely not necessary with 33"s.

* Skip the long travel. Costs way more money then what it's worth. Plus more likely to break something.

* We would suggest going with a more budget friendly suspension kit. The money you save can be put towards sliders and skids. Reservoir shocks look cool but will give you no advantage unless you intend to go desert racing. Dobinson, OME, ToyTec, will give you all the reliability and function the more expensive brands can. Don't fall for the advertising hype and peer pressure. :)

* For upper control arms we like the SPCs. You're going to hear from some that they're junk. Don't believe what you hear. They did have issues a few years back with their ball joints and bushings but all that has been remedied. The adjustability that you can get out of them is incredible. And the new greasable ball joints last for 100k+.

+ Have fun!

 

[64Trvlr]

First change although everyone leaves it till last would be the right gearing for 33s and lockers probably done together either before or after the lift. OME makes a quality product for Jeeps, but I only assume they make good Toyota products.

What gearing is on the Toyota now and which transmission.

I'd honestly do selectable lockers before any other changes. They will make more of a difference off road, crawling around than any other changes.

The right gearing for the tires and terrain you want to run in will make a big difference.

OME makes good stuff and I think it's worth the money.

So I assume 3.73? Automatic, 5 speed double overdrive ? 0.59 5th gear ?

With what you say you want to do you will need to Regear.

grimmjeeper.com has an excellent gear ratio calculator.

A little more information would be great. What transmission do you have, what gear ratio do you have? It's hard to help with no info.