Member II
Thank you, Hoping to have some fun with it this summer. Going to have the lift looked at at a place that installs them to make sure it was done right. Going to try and set up a sleep system in it. RTTS are out of my budget at the moment.
You tube Overlanding
- Thread starter Jeepmedic46
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Enthusiast III
This is great advice for what to add to your rig, however I would interject that rock sliders are one of my top 3 priorities when I build. Nothing is worse than a damaged rocker panel...just my $.02
Advocate I
"It all depends."
A lot of Overlanders are using things like Subi wagons, Honda Pilots, or other "cross-overs" with little lifts and bigger tires. A bone-stock JL or JT Rubicon, or even something like a Colarado ZR2 with their true front and rear lockers (and solid axles in the JL/T) are going to go way, way further on tough trails than even a "lifted" cross-over with "AWD" and IFS/IRS. Others that are a bit more into hard trails use rigs like Tacomas, XTerras, etc. with mild lifts and up to around ~35" tires. A stock JL/T fits a 35", or a FJZ80 Land Cruiser will just about fit one stock (from what I've seen they fit the metric equivalent that works out more like ~34.5" stock).
So, when it comes to people with more capable factory vehicles (like a stock "triple locked" 80-series or a TJ/JK/JL/JT Rubicon) the fact is those vehicles will go deeper stock than I think 99.99% of people actually realize and are probably totally capable of doing what MOST people call "Overlanding" bone-stock (even down to the stock tires in the case of the Rubicons that have 33" M/Ts as a stock option). You basically are just not going to be able to mod a Subi or cross-over to run with a STOCK Rubicon. It takes a very modded Taco or other IFS rig to hang with a Rubi or triple-locked 80 (assuming you're pushing the Rubi/80 to their limits).
See what I'm getting at? The vehicle you start with dictates a lot of whether or not you "need" to mod to Overland. Or, take WJs for example. Bone-stock they're very, very capable (more capable than *most* modern IFS rigs save for maybe the ZR2s with their factory lockers) but are tire-size limited. They flex great stock and will get through really tricky stuff, but when you get to obstacles that are really just a function of having enough tire, the stock 29"s are an issue. A mild lift and ~32"s like I have keep the Quadra Drive happy so the stock setup still works well, but *most* of the tire-size issue is fixed. So, yes I could Overland a STOCK WJ... but if my group includes stock Rubicons and they plan to go pretty much to their potential I *have* to mod to hang.
Others don't leave groomed forest service roads or generally smooth trails when they are "off-road." There is NOTHING wrong with that, and doesn't require modding even in a basic AWD cross-over. You can use forest service roads to be hours and hours out from "civilization" without
"wheeling" hard. For example, we have a family cabin that's ~3hrs out from paved roads, power, cell signal, or anything resembling civilization. However, I can (and have) gotten a rented AWD Equinox to the cabin. Substitute camping instead of hitting my cabin and that's Overlanding... and if I REALLY wanted to I bet I could get a bone-stock Civic out there.
-TJ
A lot of Overlanders are using things like Subi wagons, Honda Pilots, or other "cross-overs" with little lifts and bigger tires. A bone-stock JL or JT Rubicon, or even something like a Colarado ZR2 with their true front and rear lockers (and solid axles in the JL/T) are going to go way, way further on tough trails than even a "lifted" cross-over with "AWD" and IFS/IRS. Others that are a bit more into hard trails use rigs like Tacomas, XTerras, etc. with mild lifts and up to around ~35" tires. A stock JL/T fits a 35", or a FJZ80 Land Cruiser will just about fit one stock (from what I've seen they fit the metric equivalent that works out more like ~34.5" stock).
So, when it comes to people with more capable factory vehicles (like a stock "triple locked" 80-series or a TJ/JK/JL/JT Rubicon) the fact is those vehicles will go deeper stock than I think 99.99% of people actually realize and are probably totally capable of doing what MOST people call "Overlanding" bone-stock (even down to the stock tires in the case of the Rubicons that have 33" M/Ts as a stock option). You basically are just not going to be able to mod a Subi or cross-over to run with a STOCK Rubicon. It takes a very modded Taco or other IFS rig to hang with a Rubi or triple-locked 80 (assuming you're pushing the Rubi/80 to their limits).
See what I'm getting at? The vehicle you start with dictates a lot of whether or not you "need" to mod to Overland. Or, take WJs for example. Bone-stock they're very, very capable (more capable than *most* modern IFS rigs save for maybe the ZR2s with their factory lockers) but are tire-size limited. They flex great stock and will get through really tricky stuff, but when you get to obstacles that are really just a function of having enough tire, the stock 29"s are an issue. A mild lift and ~32"s like I have keep the Quadra Drive happy so the stock setup still works well, but *most* of the tire-size issue is fixed. So, yes I could Overland a STOCK WJ... but if my group includes stock Rubicons and they plan to go pretty much to their potential I *have* to mod to hang.
Others don't leave groomed forest service roads or generally smooth trails when they are "off-road." There is NOTHING wrong with that, and doesn't require modding even in a basic AWD cross-over. You can use forest service roads to be hours and hours out from "civilization" without
"wheeling" hard. For example, we have a family cabin that's ~3hrs out from paved roads, power, cell signal, or anything resembling civilization. However, I can (and have) gotten a rented AWD Equinox to the cabin. Substitute camping instead of hitting my cabin and that's Overlanding... and if I REALLY wanted to I bet I could get a bone-stock Civic out there.
-TJ
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Advocate I
Agree 100%
His XJ, like my WJ, is pretty tire-size-limited. You need that ~4.5" lift to even get a moderate (by modern standards) size tire on it and PROPERLY clear it at full flex. Much like my current setup of 4.5" with a just-under-32" tire I think a XJ at 4.5" on something around a 32" (or a 33" with enough cutting) is a GREAT combo. It's not over-sized for the rig or the axles (unless it has a D35 rear... then anything is over-sized, even stock, lol) and can actually clear it flexing. Proper flex and traction devices (lockers or good LSDs) are more important than tire-size 99% of the time.
People (including me sometimes) get hung-up on 35"s vs. 33"s or whatever. A 35" only gives you 1" more ground clearance than a 33". Depending on how you air-down, the difference often all but evaporates. How often do you actually come across an obstacle that 1" of ground clearance one way or the other is the deciding factor? It's almost never. Usually you either have the clearance, or you WAY don't and 1" wouldn't change anything. However, a spinning tire in the air because you couldn't flex well enough or you don't have the right traction devices in the axles OFTEN stops people.
On something like a JL that can run a 35" stock I totally get the "no lift" advice... though even a JL will be able to flex-out with 35"s better with a 2" lift. But on XJs, ZJs, WJs and to a lesser extent TJs that are tire-size limited stock a lift makes sense to get past the tiny stock tire fitment (29-ish on XJ/WJ/ZJ). Then you throw in the much improved articulation of a proper long-arm lift, and the benefit is far more than just clearance.
-TJ
Said well. Both of you. Totally agree.
I wish they had an offroad version of a corolla.
I rally do.
I wish they had an offroad version of a corolla.
I rally do.
Advocate III
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In 30 years of extreme off-roading, I have never bent a rocker panel from under neath the rig. I have brushed them along side of obstacles crushing front fender to rear quarter panels, but a slider wouldn’t have saved my truck from damage. Up until about 20 years ago when the rock buggies came popular, there was never mentioned the need for rock sliders. Skid plates under the oil pan, transmission, and transfer cases (and some times diffs) yes, those are important, but sliders... not really. I personally feel, unless, the sliders are solidly attached to the frame by grade 5 bolts (so the bolts break or bend) they actually cause more harm than good by tweeking the frame. I worked in a body shop for several years, and the amount of rigs that we had to pull the frame due to sliders was horrendous. And Unibodies like the XJ were the worst, because we could never get them straight without lots of surgery.
Member III
Good for you but I bent my rockers on the first time I went off road. Granted I had no idea what I was doing. I have also gotten too close to a tree and bent a fender. The kickout would have prevented that. So I would say it really depends on where you go and how much you are willing to push your vehicle. Also sometimes you can slip and slide into something and if not for the rock slider you could have done serious damage.
As far as bending the frame goes. I have heard that many slider brands are poorly designed and mounted and will cause frame damage. So finding a quality well designed brand is very important.
Advocate I
Advocate I
I have to respectfully disagree. I've seen countless rigs bend a rocker, even ever-so-slightly, then have problems with doors not closing/sealing etc. for the rest of the life of the rig. It doesn't take much to tweak a rocker. IMHO if you're dropping down onto a rock-slider hard enough that it bends the frame you have much BIGGER problems going on. Either a) the slider was poorly designed/attached so it's concentrating all the force from the slider into 1 spot on the frame b) you're dropping your rig waaaaaaaaaaaay too hard onto your sliders. In the former case, bad engineering is bad engineering and doesn't mean that having a slider is bad... it means having a BAD slider is bad. In the latter case, if you are hitting a properly engineered slider hard enough to bend the frame, well then without the slider you would have smashed up through the rocker, into your doors, and probably found some frame too. That would be a HARD hit.
So, I guess I do retract my previous statement a bit: even if I was "Overlanding" a bone-stock WJ I'd add rock sliders, period (and a winch).
-TJ
I totally understand this and this is why I don't usually go out with other because I think my rig is shit compared to jeep and smaller trucks
Advocate I
Don't worry, my WJ can't hang with a lot of stuff either. When I plan group trips we plan around the least-capable vehicle in the group. Every run doesn't have to be a balls-to-the-wall, test your capability at every twist and turn, white-knuckler.
-TJ
Having someone who sells thier services check out your rig I would be leary of what they tell you. I would rather get the opinion of other xj owners. The ones that have worked through the do's and don'ts on thier rigs already.
Yeah a roof top tent if out of the question for me in more ways than just the $$$$. My wife doesn't like the idea at all. And I don't want the weight up there anyways. What I have done is I took out the bottom of the rear seat and lay down the back. I do carry a lot of tool spare parts and recovery gear. So where the seat used to be I have it built up with tool boxes and such and other heavy stuff on the floor. I built a simple platform (built just to make the floor perfectly flat)that folds over when I want to put the seat back together I can. We have three Plano boxes (full of recover gear and fliudes) and a bear proof cooler and a large amo-locker modified to lock , all this can tuck under our rig when we sleep. Because the platform is just used to level the floor there is more room for the two of us. I scored one of those storage bags that strap to the roof rails on the roof. There is also enough room up there to strap a easy up for shade.
It is unbelievable how capable a xj is. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
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A properly built slider will protect from underneath and prevent a side impact from deforming a rocker, possibly even saving a door in many cases.
Advocate III
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ok, the frames damaged, the rocks had hit all the sliders under the floorboards,
like I said I used to wheel hard, and never once have I hit anything that a slider would have saved, and I have personally seen way too much damage done by bolt on sliders.
To address your question directly, it all depends on where YOU want to go. Build your rig for your needs, not someone else’s. I don’t do much rock crawling so, for me, a lift is further down on the priority list. Most of where I go, any stock 4WD SUV with a competent (important note) driver could reasonably make it. Heck, look at some of the places folks like @Road go in a van! That being said, it is nice to have capability beyond your needs. This is a hobby after all and it should be fun, right? We found ourselves at an offroad park last summer and I had an rather impromptu test of the abilities of my Cherokee. We met a group of nice folks in some really REALLY nice overbuilt Wranglers who were headed up one of the more technical runs. When I followed them up the hill, they could not believe the “fiat Jeep” made it. That rear locker comes in handy in a pinch!
Anyway, all that is a really long way of saying, drive what you want and enjoy what you drive. Be as prepared as possible but don’t let your hesitations keep you indoors. Get out and enjoy!
Advocate III
Member III
I agree with just run what you have for a year and take notes then if you need any mods you will be better educated to do them...
I dropped $20,000 into mine and if I had it to do again there are things I would have done differently now. I certainly could have saved 5k. With my Tahoe a little lift is a good thing for clearance issues but I am glad I limited it to just 4 inches.
I just recently was at King suspension to order custom shocks for mine and in our conversation he pointed out all the off road race truck have very little lift it is more about travel and good suspension...
Ok doing a bed platform I love mine and it gives me a place to sleep without setting anything up... I don't take passengers in mine so, I removed all the back seats to give me a ton of storage space and all of it is very low to the floor. The fastest, lightest and easiest way to install a platform is by using wire frame shelving. Just pick the size that fits in your rig and cut the legs to the height you need some legs will be longer or shorter due to the floor of your vehicle no big deal just cut to fit. With planning you could complete a platform build in an hour...
If you want more details or ideas on setting up the inside for camping check out my build thread in my signature.
A 5 inch thick full size foam mattress fits over the platform and now I also have a 37 qt refrigerator under there too.
It is easy to make them lift up for better access too. Mine lift up in the back and in the front only the center section remains in place.
I dropped $20,000 into mine and if I had it to do again there are things I would have done differently now. I certainly could have saved 5k. With my Tahoe a little lift is a good thing for clearance issues but I am glad I limited it to just 4 inches.
I just recently was at King suspension to order custom shocks for mine and in our conversation he pointed out all the off road race truck have very little lift it is more about travel and good suspension...
Ok doing a bed platform I love mine and it gives me a place to sleep without setting anything up... I don't take passengers in mine so, I removed all the back seats to give me a ton of storage space and all of it is very low to the floor. The fastest, lightest and easiest way to install a platform is by using wire frame shelving. Just pick the size that fits in your rig and cut the legs to the height you need some legs will be longer or shorter due to the floor of your vehicle no big deal just cut to fit. With planning you could complete a platform build in an hour...
If you want more details or ideas on setting up the inside for camping check out my build thread in my signature.
A 5 inch thick full size foam mattress fits over the platform and now I also have a 37 qt refrigerator under there too.
It is easy to make them lift up for better access too. Mine lift up in the back and in the front only the center section remains in place.
Advocate I
That's a nice, simple but usable setup. I like it. I've been thinking about sleeping platform options for my WJ, and I think I tend to over-think it a LOT and let my mind run wild with crazy setups.
-TJ
