Xj vs Zj vs 4 Runner

[Courage]

Hey guys, not sure if this is technically overlanding, sorry if it's not, but I figured you guys might have some applicable knowledge for me.
I'd like to do some ~1,000 mile round trips this summer and stay in my vehicle kinda incognito. My parents have a 5 speed Previa that they do this in, and I'd like to join them some, but I don't think a van is for me, as I'd like to be able to use this same vehicle for some light trails/offroad/mudding.
Here are the options I'm considering rn, but I'm open to pretty much anything...
1. Buy a canopy/topper for my 94 Ram 2500, and deal with 14 mpg, and having to be much more careful where I sleep, since climbing into the back would be pretty obvious.
2. Buy an XJ, hopefully one with the AX15 manual transmission (since I love manuals). I think I'd get close to 20 mpg if I took it easy.
3. Buy a ZJ, not sure whether I'd want to 4.0 or 5.2. Don't like that it'd be an automatic. We used to have one with a 4.0 though, and we used to get about 18 mpg. They're probably the cheapest on this list. I know they're very comfortable. Not sure if they'd be more or less roomy for sleeping in than the XJ.
4. Buy a 3rd gen 4 Runner, manual transmission, probably the 3.4. Seems I could get around 20 mpg. I know they're very reliable. Don't have the electrical gremlins that both Jeeps are known for. How do they compare in interior bed space to the Jeeps? Probably going to be a challenge to find a clean one for cheap.
Thanks in advance!
Courage

 

[Smileyshaun]

No 3.4 Toyota get 20 mpg once you put any sort of lift and tires on one it will get 12-15 . Most smaller rigs suffer on mpgs in the real world . Also take into account the cost of buying and setting up a new rig to save a few mpgs vs using what you have .

 

[tjZ06]

Why are you ruling out WJs?

-TJ

 

[Courage]

No 3.4 Toyota get 20 mpg once you put any sort of lift and tires on one it will get 12-15 . Most smaller rigs suffer on mpgs in the real world . Also take into account the cost of buying and setting up a new rig to save a few mpgs vs using what you have .

Hmmm, I probably won't lift whatever I do get, but I would throw some slightly bigger tires on it. That's been my delima, maybe I should run what I have.

 

[Courage]

Why are you ruling out WJs?

-TJ

Not sure, wasn't purposeful, lol. I've heard some bad things about the 4.7, idk if it's true or not. I would definitely consider one. How do they do on fuel? Some of them had the 4.0, right? Do you think that would be a better option for my use case?
Thanks!

 

[tjZ06]

Not sure, wasn't purposeful, lol. I've heard some bad things about the 4.7, idk if it's true or not. I would definitely consider one. How do they do on fuel? Some of them had the 4.0, right? Do you think that would be a better option for my use case?
Thanks!

The 4.7 does get a bad wrap, yes. To be honest, it's somewhat fair as they do have valve seat issues. Specifically, at either very high miles, or if they've been overheated the valve seats loosen up in the head and eventually drop. Obviously that's a BIG problem and can be basically catastrophic. That said, WJs are just a much nicer vehicle than XJs and to some extent ZJs as well. The suspension setup on the WJ is superior making them a much better driver in general. When it's running well the 4.7 is actually a very smooth and powerful (for its day) engine, and somewhat more efficient than the 5.2 in ZJs (which is basically an old school Mopar small block). One of my Overlands (as in the trim level "Overland" that was available on WJs and includes the 4.7 HO which is 265/325 HP/TQ vs. I believe 235/295 HP/TQ for the non-HO 4.7) was on a basic 2" lift and a +1" all terrain and I could actually knock down nearly 20 MPH highway-only. The Overland brings a really nice interior, cool features (things like auto wipers) and IMHO is *the* way to go for a WJ. At this point generally if you find a 4.7 WJ still running around it either will have had the heads (or whole engine) done, or should be cheap enough that you can budget that job into the purchase. WJs have other little annoyances (blower motor resistor goes, blend doors go, wiring from body to driver's door breaks, etc.) but ZJs and everything else you're considering will as well. FWIW the 4.0 was available in WJs and you'll actually find a LOT of them. They really don't get much (if any) better MPG in practice and in the WJ they're just underpowered, even more so than in the lighter XJ (I own an XJ too, FWIW). Also, the 4.0L WJs got a much weaker trans (42RE) than 4.0L XJs (AW4 in the later 4.0L XJs).

Put another way, assuming I had addressed the known issues I'd much rather travel 1k miles in a WJ than a XJ, ZJ or 3rd Gen 'runner.

-TJ

 

[orange01z28]

4Runners are indestructible, but the Jeeps are going to do better on technical trails

4Runner prices are also somewhat higher than the equivalent XJ, much higher than the equivalent WJ/ZJ

None of these are going to get good mileage, especially with lift/tires

 

[tjZ06]

4Runners are indestructible, but the Jeeps are going to do better on technical trails

4Runner prices are also somewhat higher than the equivalent XJ, much higher than the equivalent WJ/ZJ

None of these are going to get good mileage, especially with lift/tires

This!

-TJ

 

[ELSIE80]

new member here but I own a WJ 4.0 auto, WJ-V8 and a ZJ V8. WJ 4.0 auto can get about 17-18mpg 2" lift with 31" driven easy. loaded and a heavy foot your going to be 12-14mpg WJ -V8 non ho 3" lift 31" tires gets the best millage of the bunch pulling 19-20mpg. I bought all the WJ 's for my kids. I have a 1998 ZJ 5.2 auto 3" lift 31" tires it is my favorite of the bunch but only gets 13mpg. keep in mind the V8's will most likely be full time 4wd. which does effect mpg and the way the drive. we converted the WJ v8 to part time and that increased the MPG by about 1.5 - 2 mpg. and it feels wat better in parking lots at slow speeds. as for suspension I will take the ZJ for lifting but the WJ if left stock hieght. ZJ and the WJ have the same front suspension but the rear suspensions are different slightly. another plus to the V8 is they came with the dana supper 44 rear ends which some say are not that good. it is the aluminum diff housing from the Dodge vipper so you tell me if it can hadle a V10 how bad can it be. I have over 225k miles on both rear ends with 0 problems. if you drive it like your not trying to break it -it probally wont break. ARB does make a locker for it. both platforms are comfortable and extreamly capable off road. on road they are almost car like. as for sleeping I am 6' and with the seat backs folded down and the seat bases removed I can sleep in it no problem. the seat bases can be removed in a couple minutes. Like all cars over 20yrs there is going to be plenty to work on. parts are cheap and there are plenty out there. easy to work on. I hear all the problems people talk about knock on wood all of ours have been reliable. Biggest problem and pain in the a is if the ac system fails behind the dash.. thats 3k biggest thing with these don't put big tires on them or expect them to be rock crawlers without lots of mods. they are not a full frame truck. the 4runner is. also if you can don't buy one from CA. the smog systems are different and way more costly to replace.. I like V8 power the 6 is a bit weak.. Cherokee jeeps are a good bang for your buck. helps if you can turn a wrench.. I have had many Toyota 4x4 rigs and am a big fan. My wife has a 5th gen and we love it..

 

[ELSIE80]

By the way I should have said it 1st
tjZO6 you are spot on all true.
our V8 WJ dropped the valve but it was at nearley 200k miles. had a Jasper rebuild dropped in with full warenty by a shop for around 8k been 25k miles on it again knock on wood running perfect.
Nice pic of the WJ on trail.

 

[Courage]

Thanks a TON for all of your detailed responses! I really appreciate you all taken the time to share your experiences.
I'm going to add the WJ to my search list then. They don't sound like they're something to be dreaded.
I'm planning to keep whatever I get stock height and tire size to maximize mpg. Do you think that the manual xjs get much better fuel economy than the autos?
If I could find an "overlander" trim wj that seems like it'd be ideal.
Thanks again!
Courage

 

[loper]

If it was me, I'd go for an XJ with the 4.0. Had an '87 MJ Comanche (bought it new) and it was a lot of fun on trails.

But, it depends on your priorities. You're going to have to drive a lot of miles to make the mpg pay off the purchase price, vs just putting a topper on the Ram you already have.

 

[ELSIE80]

The XJ is a different animal for sure. lighter and different rear suspension. leaf spring not linked coil. there are manuals out there. not sure how much better millage they will get. down side is cost those have become the sought after jeep and the cost reflects that. on average they will $5k more expensive then a WJ or ZJ. For the ZJ, I prefer the 97-98 years and only with the V8. The WJ is more refined and has a stiffer chasie. for the 6cyl they changed from a distributor to coil on spark I think in 2000. on another note your Ram with a topper is going to be the best camper but it's apples to oranges to the jeep and 4runner on tight trails and tech off roading. Jeeps or any solid axle down side is death wobble, the suspension and tires have to be maintained and in good condition more so with lifts but even stock hieght it's a real issue. budget money to make sure that system is good. the IFS on the 4runner and your ram don't get DW. Anything old is going to need work and not get 20 plus MPG. Trade the Ram in and get the diesel Gladiator put a GFC camper on it and have what you really want.

 

[tjZ06]

Another thing I forgot to mention about a WJ is that you could get Quadra Drive (standard on Overlands, another reason IMHO an Overland or high-spec Limited that was optioned with the 4.7 HO is the way to go...) which is actually a great system. Yes, it's full-time so it will cost you some MPG, but it's pretty darn trick and the closest you'll get to actual front/rear/center lockers in something that costs $5k or less.

Basically all 3 diffs (both axles and the center diff in 4H) are a clutch-type limited slip, but they have a gerotor that is driven by a speed differential across the carrier that applies additional pressure to the clutch packs. What this means is when one tire spins more than the other on one of the axles, or one driveshaft spins more than the other for the t-case the clutches are clamped down and "lock up." It's a great system, and works really well if you understand that it *requires wheel spin to work* in low-traction situations. The other limitation is that the clutches still only have so much grip so if you put on very heavy wheels/tires the clutches can't overcome their inertia and they'll continue to spin making the system far less effective.

A WJ Overland on a 4" long arm lift and 31.6"s is a greeeeeeeeaaaat daily driver/Overland vehicle.

-TJ

 

[rgallant]

Keeping to a narrow stock sized tire will help

 

[ELSIE80]

size MATTERS..

 

[Arailt]

A manual transmission would not net you better gas mileage on highway road trips. Only in city driving, and it would be pretty minimal.

I had a '99 XJ from 2002 - 2007 and loved it. Mine was a "Classic" 4.0 automatic. It did have lots of electrical problems. I had to replace two window motors, alternator, lights and turn signals were funky when it rained (for perspective - it was a relatively new vehicle with less than 40k on the clock. Now, I can't imagine how many gremlins one would have). It was a beast off road with stock suspension and AT tires. Side note: I thought only the 2-door 4 cylinder XJs had manuals, I could be wrong though. If they do, 5-speed would lose all of its appeal.

Solid axles are great off road, but make for worse on road driving manners. If you're going to be on road most of the time, I would get the 4Runner.

That said, I'm not sure I'd want a 20-30 year old vehicle for road trips (especially the Jeeps), unless you're very mechanically inclined or the vehicle has been refreshed/restored. Maybe look for a 4th gen 4Runner? It will be way more comfortable on road and still very capable off road.

 

[tjZ06]

A manual transmission would not net you better gas mileage on highway road trips. Only in city driving, and it would be pretty minimal.

I had a '99 XJ from 2002 - 2007 and loved it. Mine was a "Classic" 4.0 automatic. It did have lots of electrical problems. I had to replace two window motors, alternator, lights and turn signals were funky when it rained (for perspective - it was a relatively new vehicle with less than 40k on the clock. Now, I can't imagine how many gremlins one would have). It was a beast off road with stock suspension and AT tires. Side note: I thought only the 2-door 4 cylinder XJs had manuals, I could be wrong though. If they do, 5-speed would lose all of its appeal.

Solid axles are great off road, but make for worse on road driving manners. If you're going to be on road most of the time, I would get the 4Runner.

That said, I'm not sure I'd want a 20-30 year old vehicle for road trips (especially the Jeeps), unless you're very mechanically inclined or the vehicle has been refreshed/restored. Maybe look for a 4th gen 4Runner? It will be way more comfortable on road and still very capable off road.

My XJ is a 2001 with just under 200k on the clock (like, 199-something) and has a few electrical gremlins. I'm pretty sure the driver's door wiring is all broken as I have intermittent window switch issues, but like I said above that's super common on WJs too and it's a pretty easy fix (if a bit fiddly with the lack of space to work). The rear wiper recently stopped working, but I haven't even begun to look into it. That said, most of the electrical issues I have are from poor work by previous owners adding bullshhhhh to it. The only two rusty areas on mine are the passenger drip-rail (who knows why exactly, maybe it had roof racks before that wore the paint away, maybe it has to do with how it was parked for a long time, etc.) and a small area of the drier's floor plan. The latter was 110% self-inflicted by the previous owner. They had a lightbar on it at some point (come to think of it, duh... they prob had stupid clamps on the drip-rails to mount the lightbar!) and they ran the wiring across the engine bay (with just a couple zip ties here or there), out through the fender, and then into the cab via the driver's door jam/weather stripping. Rain water followed the wiring right in and flooded the driver's floorboard. This is a CA only XJ, and would probably have absolutely 0 rust (like my WJ) if it weren't for poor decisions by the POs. Obviously I ripped all that BS out. Anyway, even at 200k I'd trust this XJ for a 1000+ mi drive in a heartbeat. Granted, it has a fresh top end on the 4.0L and the trans was just refreshed with a mild shift kit but it's just a solid, basic vehicle that will get you where you're going. Mine happens to be more wheeling-focused with no sway bars, locked and geared D44s, long arms, 35"s etc. but honestly it's still not bad on road. I can manage 15-16 MPG doing 70-75 MPH on the freeway which I really think isn't too bad for what this thing is.



Still, my WJ is so much nicer/more comfortable to drive. It's hard to compare what it is *now* (very customized Trail Forged long arm f/r with full belly skid, triple bypass shocks, hydraulic bump stops, and the front is coil over, 426cui GenIII Hemi, and a TON more) but when it was just a mild bolt-on 4" lift on 31.6"s and still running the 4.7 HO it was a really, really, really good driver/Overlander.

Mild version of the WJ:



Wild version:






-TJ

 

[Arailt]

My XJ is a 2001 with just under 200k on the clock (like, 199-something) and has a few electrical gremlins. I'm pretty sure the driver's door wiring is all broken as I have intermittent window switch issues, but like I said above that's super common on WJs too and it's a pretty easy fix (if a bit fiddly with the lack of space to work). The rear wiper recently stopped working, but I haven't even begun to look into it. That said, most of the electrical issues I have are from poor work by previous owners adding bullshhhhh to it. The only two rusty areas on mine are the passenger drip-rail (who knows why exactly, maybe it had roof racks before that wore the paint away, maybe it has to do with how it was parked for a long time, etc.) and a small area of the drier's floor plan. The latter was 110% self-inflicted by the previous owner. They had a lightbar on it at some point (come to think of it, duh... they prob had stupid clamps on the drip-rails to mount the lightbar!) and they ran the wiring across the engine bay (with just a couple zip ties here or there), out through the fender, and then into the cab via the driver's door jam/weather stripping. Rain water followed the wiring right in and flooded the driver's floorboard. This is a CA only XJ, and would probably have absolutely 0 rust (like my WJ) if it weren't for poor decisions by the POs. Obviously I ripped all that BS out. Anyway, even at 200k I'd trust this XJ for a 1000+ mi drive in a heartbeat. Granted, it has a fresh top end on the 4.0L and the trans was just refreshed with a mild shift kit but it's just a solid, basic vehicle that will get you where you're going. Mine happens to be more wheeling-focused with no sway bars, locked and geared D44s, long arms, 35"s etc. but honestly it's still not bad on road. I can manage 15-16 MPG doing 70-75 MPH on the freeway which I really think isn't too bad for what this thing is.

View attachment 274003

Still, my WJ is so much nicer/more comfortable to drive. It's hard to compare what it is *now* (very customized Trail Forged long arm f/r with full belly skid, triple bypass shocks, hydraulic bump stops, and the front is coil over, 426cui GenIII Hemi, and a TON more) but when it was just a mild bolt-on 4" lift on 31.6"s and still running the 4.7 HO it was a really, really, really good driver/Overlander.

Mild version of the WJ:
View attachment 274009
View attachment 274014

Wild version:
View attachment 274005
View attachment 274004
View attachment 274006
View attachment 274007
View attachment 274008

-TJ

Nice. Awesome Jeeps. You definitely fall into the mechanically inclined category and have upgraded the hell out of those Jeeps haha.

OP seemed to be looking for a stock-ish vehicle to take on road trips. That was where my advice on picking up an old vehicle came into play. I imagine 30 year old high mileage XJ with original suspension and wear parts would not be fun to drove across the country. My 2008 GX470 already needed a suspension overhaul thanks to worn out bushings, shocks, springs, etc., and it only had 90K on the clock.

 

[tjZ06]

Nice. Awesome Jeeps. You definitely fall into the mechanically inclined category and have upgraded the hell out of those Jeeps haha.

OP seemed to be looking for a stock-ish vehicle to take on road trips. That was where my advice on picking up an old vehicle came into play. I imagine 30 year old high mileage XJ with original suspension and wear parts would not be fun to drove across the country. My 2008 GX470 already needed a suspension overhaul thanks to worn out bushings, shocks, springs, etc., and it only had 90K on the clock.

Yeah, OP doesn't want builds like mine. BUT, I often say my WJ was actually perfect in the "Mild" incarnation. Obviously it's way more capable now, but really for the use case it's way way over built. Heck, a clean Overland on a 2" budget boost and +1" AT tires is prob plenty for 99% of people, throw on *good* shocks and the Addco rear sway bar and it's a great freeway cruiser and still plenty capable off road. That would be my actual suggestion to the OP.

-TJ