Wrangler 4XE daily driver and holiday camping fun - plug-in hybrid overlander.

[leeloo]

The Disco 4 let me down yet again, and even the dealer is lost completely. At off Road Height, and only when I actually go off-road, I get a suspension error. I can drive it on normal pavement at off road height for 3 days, no issues. When the wheels start bouncing - air reservoir filling to slow error. New compressor and relay, valves, no leaks detected...
If no one takes that thing off road - the suspension will run flawlessly for years...
When it runs, it is wonderful..
And I have the holiday start in 1 week, a planned trip to Spain.
Already missed a meet because of this crap, and I had to go on the Easter Holiday with my small hybrid daily, because of a burst cross over pipe.
I can take a lot of crap, but don't mess with my trips... I understand it was a second hand vehcile, it will break, you fix it, but every time before a planned trip... 2 out of 3 so far..
This thing was the straw that broke the camel's back. So I decided it is time to say good bye .
So I traded it the disco 4 for a Wrangler Sahara 4xe I found in stock in Germany. Even got an 8k discount on it. The small Toyota C-HR Hybrid is also going on sale.
The 4xe solves 2 problems. I have a 12 km round trip to work, urban driving, the diesel disco 4 was not suitable for this, hence the need for a second car. Nothing kills faster a modern diesel than short trips, and specially an LR does not need any help with that.
The 4Xe is designed for this. I can charge it at work, and use gas only on week end and long trips.
I have a small 1 car garage, and a parking spot in front of it. It meant I had to rotate the cars, it was a pain ( park someplace else one of them, get the other from the garage, put the first one in, and so on .. ) . Now I will have only 1 car. That means also only 1 insurance, 1 annual service, 1 set of tires, 1 time 30 euro annual tax, and not a combined 500/year and so on.
To top it all, I would expected that on long trips, where you don't charge at all the fuel economy will suffer because of the weight. On my way back to the dealer, did about 400 km, I averaged better than the disco 4, engine not broken in at all.
My math sais I will recoup the differnce what paid for it in and what I will get from the 2 cars I am selling in about 3years. But even if not, just the less stress is worth it.
First charge at home :) Of course the garage door broke when I came home with it :)


Charges to full in about 5 hours from a standard European 220v plug, one of the 2 I have in my garage. The e power pack is 17.5 KW.





Took it to a small forest a few km from my house, going electric you hear all birds and trees, it is very cool.


Lots of things to do before leaving, I have to find a way to fit all the crap inside and outside, so I will do next week the minimum need it for this trip, more mods will come.
Those who expect some lifts and stuff along those lines - not going to happen, I doubt I have to balls to go where a stock jeep can go.
being a plug in hybrid opens up some very interesting capabilities for camping that I will explore. Suffice to say I saw a guy on youtube with a 4xe that managed to power his house from the big battery.
More details in the next post.

 

[Carnage_95YJ]

Very cool! Welcome to the Jeep family!

 

[leeloo]

The PLAN


For me, the Wrangler has 2 major issues. Noise on the highway and space. In an ideal world i would get something else, like a petrol defender 130, but I can build a small house with the price tag on that thing. Nothing that is available or reasonable comes to mind on the market as it is today. Either insane prices and delivery times, or diesels only, that I hate. So we compromise.

I looked at the wrangler before. I was turned of by the high noise on the highway. This is still a problem. Mine was optioned out with a headliner that seems to reduce it. When I go on long journeys I don't drive fast anyway, but still, it is tiring.I plan to do a full job on it to add some sound proofing. But this is for the future, no time in a week. For 10 h of driving the first leg to get there, I will have to take it.
Space - back to backpacking basics - small and light. I already started that even when I had the disco. For maybe next year, we are considering a small trailer.
Until than, I will make due.
- space- ordered some roof bars from thule and I plan to use my roof box. The gutter will hold 50 kg. The bars have about 2-3 kg, the box has 6. That leaves around 40 kg of gear. The tent has about 17kg, and the rest will be light but high volume things like sleeping bags, self inflatable mats, the table, They will be locked, and out of the elements. Much better than a roof rack.
Long therm I am considering a roof rack, but did not see anything that will allow me to remove it easy, and I don't want to leave it there non stop when I will use it maybe 4 months.
I can get the rhino back bone system and 2 bars, about 800 euro. A bit steep for 2 roof bars. The other thing that is putting me off is the fact that if you can put 100 kg on the roof - than you will. Not very good. If what I do now works - than no roof rack.

The awning I have - a rhino-rack sunseeker - - too much weight for the bar system. It has 17 kg I think. So no way it will go up there.
I ordered a Tarp with 2 poles and 2 suction cups :) 30 euro and about 2.5 kg, packs really small. Setup time seems to be the same, but not sure how it will cope with wind. Not very good I guess :) , but we will see.
Next issue - maxtrax - where the hell will put them . I was considering to strap them on the spare wheel, and I was really happy with myself until I saw the reverse camera poking its ugly head out of the spare wheel. I think there are some relocation kits, but can I order and do the work this week ? If not, I have to find something else. I am open to any suggestions.

Inside will go the engel 40l fridge, powered from a eco flow, 2 small frontrunner chairs, 2 backpacks, one 90 l one 60l with clothes and other things, , wife, kid, dog, pillows, 20 l of water from a jerry with a spout, solar panel. Or at least this what I hope will go.
As stuff arrives and things get installed, will post pictures.

 

[AggieOE]

Nice purchase! I've been very tempted by the 4xe model since, like you, I could run it in the electric mode most of the week and would only need gas for weekends.
As far as packing and such, you are right. It is tight. I recommend swapping the door nets for solid plastic cupholders/pockets. Also, center console dividers and trays make better use of the space. With the Jeep, you have to make use of all the cubbies. Otherwise, you miss a lot of dead, wasted space.

I was about to do the rhino-rack system with the backbone supports inside the top too but figured that a small trailer would be better so the vehicle can be completely unloaded for normal daily driving.

 

[leeloo]

Nice purchase! I've been very tempted by the 4xe model since, like you, I could run it in the electric mode most of the week and would only need gas for weekends.
As far as packing and such, you are right. It is tight. I recommend swapping the door nets for solid plastic cupholders/pockets. Also, center console dividers and trays make better use of the space. With the Jeep, you have to make use of all the cubbies. Otherwise, you miss a lot of dead, wasted space.

I was about to do the rhino-rack system with the backbone supports inside the top too but figured that a small trailer would be better so the vehicle can be completely unloaded for normal daily driving.

Good advice, it is what I am trying to do.
The roof bars arrived and are mounted. I did not pay attention in the rush and for this model you have to order keys and locks separately. Got a solution to this, instead of 80 euro extra for locks + keys I will get a set of M10 anti theft nuts .
Got a grab handle, I ordered only 1, the cheapest on amazon, and well it was too expensive for what it is. On the other hand, it was the only model with the delivery date until I leave. Good thing I did not order 3 . It will do for this trip.
The Frontrunner chairs arrived, I plan to keep them between the roll cage bar in the back and the hardtop. I have some king camp chairs that I love, but they are too big to fit in the wrangler .. hence the change .
Got a fire extinguisher attachment as well.
Did a test yesterday, the Maxtrax fit in the roofbox if have . That is good. Not so easy to get to them in a pinch, medium term I will think of some other solution. I will have to check if I can fit some secure brackets on the the roof bars.
Still waiting for the tailgate table to be delivered.
I remember getting the same table for about 50 euro not so long ago, it would fit on other vehicles as well. I gave it away, I did not use it. Now it is 95 euro with delivery... double the price in the space of 2 years. a piece of stamped steel.. I can't believe it..

 

[leeloo]

The tailgate table arrived and now it is on :


The Mopar chick from the instructions video did it in like 6 min. Took me about 1h, I wanted to measure to make sure all lines up before I drill in to the plastic trim, and also to find the 2 nuts I dropped ....
Top Tip - the Bosmutus tailgate table for JK/JL from Amazon at 89 euro is absolutely identical with the Mopar 220 euro one - except the little jeep stamped on it.
And my wife managed to get the car registered, no more temporary plates and now I am fully insured, would have been risky to go on this trip otherwise.
2 more days...

 

[leeloo]

Got ba back from my first trip, almost 6500 km, crossing France, and spending time in Spain and Portugal.

a week after I got it, it was still in the break in period when I left, with about 500 km on it, I set off. I did not have time to do anything on it bone stock sahara tires, got some small mods like a grab holder, fire extinguisher mount, 2 rood bars, 1 roof box , small things like that and I was on. No time to do a proper dual battery install or to figure out a reliable and safe way to tap into the big battery, I had eco flow pack that used to power the fridge.

The vehicle was chuck full + a roof box, 2 adults, a teenager and 1 dog


Will try to focus on the 4xe specific part, I guess many here are familiar with Wranglers ( this is my first one )
On a positive note - the vehicle was almost flawless, I did had 2 small issues.
Issue number 1 - I had 2 long highway stretches crossing France, to reach Spain and back, about 1100 km each( aprox 680 miles ) , did them in one go. A few times I had a yellow tire pressure warning and a message telling me I should service the tire pressure monitoring system. If you try to see your tire pressure on the screen, you get no readout, just red lines. After 5 min it would delete itself and things would go back to normal, meaning it was working fine, and the tire pressures would be again available in the screen.
The rest of the trip except this 2 long stretches was spent driving on back roads and off road, so in 3 weeks, I got it maybe 2 times on the back roads, seems to happen mostly on highway driving.

Issue number 2 - not a vehicle problem at the core, more of a support issue.
The 12v plug in the trunk is very badly positioned, anything you plug there is vulnerable to be ripped apart by things moving around the trunk. As you can see from the first picture, I had a lot of crap. Despite my precautions, on Day One the plug was crushed, shorted and blew the fuse.
Now the weird part comes. Normally I would have a full set of fuses in any vehicle. Lack of time prevented me to get some, and I told myself I would buy them at any gas station first thing.
Not sure about other Jeep models, but this one uses micro blade fuses. At least in Spain and Portugal, they are nowhere to be found, even in big auto parts stores -only on order, next day. So I go to a jeep dealer I found somewhere in Portugal, a pretty big city, they did not have them either, same thing - on order next day.
In the mean time my roof box finally died ( it was very old, the locking mechanism broke ) and a miracle, at the shop where I went for a replacement - they had the bloody fuses as well and got spares - all sorted. Now that I got home I ordered a full set that will stay in the car.

The good - off roading in a plug in hybrid - what is different ?
Well, not much, and what is different is very positive. To give you a background, I started to go off road 7 years ago in an old 2007 Subaru Forester ( most of the hard core off road guys will laugh, it is actually not so bad ) . I am not a hard core type, I like to go see the beautiful spots, I don't search for the biggest mud pit, but shit happens,and it did many times. I did many trips since than, in many countries and I would say I have a pretty extensive experience driving off road.
The lack of low gears made me sell the Forester after I experienced some pretty bad brake fading coming down a mountain, and I had several 4x4 since than . A Toyota land cruiser J120 , a Toyota Hilux pick up, a Landrover Discovery 4, and now the Jeep.
The biggest difference with the 4xe is that you can use you brakes downhill with no worries about brake fading. . The braking power provided by the electrical engine is more than enough to control any descent without actually using the mechanical brakes. And you have a lot more finer control than using low gears.
It is extremely effective, and as a bonus you do recover a lot of energy. During a descent on a mountain in Portugal , from 2000 m altitude ( about 6500 feet) down to 500 m, I got to from 0 battery to 78% charge.

Also offroading in pure EV mode, while it does not last very long if it is a difficult track, it is a very nice experience. I would try to use EV mainly in forests, it was really great while it lasted.

What did I do different ? Well I treated it like any permanent 4x4 with a locking central diff ( for example the Landcruiser has a similar system), like the Sahara in 4 auto. When things became a bit more difficult, I would engage the 4 - part time that locks the central diff. This will also keep the engine running no matter what if the vehicle is in hybrid mode. When I reached the downhill part, where you don't need a lot of traction, I would go back to 4 auto to enjoy the silence. In 4 part time you can still use the electric braking when you go down hill, but the engine will stay on, idling.

The bad.
Well, the Wrangler is a great machine off road. Probably the best off road I ever driven so far. But the reverse in the 4xe is bad. I was in a very difficult and risky spot, I was alone, the trail I was on was obviously not used in many years. The trail was pretty scary, and overgrown, already did some scratches from some very think overgrown bushes, and a small tree was actually starting to grow in the middle of it. At some point it was so steep and weird angled, I could not believe I did not tip over. So I I came to the conclusion that is time to turn back. It was a difficult maneuver, fortunately the JLU Is not a big vehicle and the turning circle is very good, much better than something with independent suspension. So I put it in Reverse, first I tried in 4 high. It was steep, even revved up to 2500 RPM it would not budge. Got it in 4 low, I barely touched the pedal and it just jumped like fukin rabbit from under me, almost smash it in to an embankment. Despite my efforts, it was very hard to control, I could not smooth it out. First gear in D low, it was fine, it was like the whole accelerator mapping for the reverse was completely changed. On the other hand, on 4 high the reverse had no power what so ever.
Either mine has a flaw, or it is just bad programming. I would love to know if it is a " feature " or a bug, but the low gear in any 4x4 is supposed to give this very fine control at low speed. This does happen in low gear, Reverse, on my 4xe at least.

Over all I am very pleased with the car.
Fuel economy - very pleased. Full of stuff, probably at GVM, + roof box on top, until the last leg of the trip crossing France on the way back, I had an average of 10.7 L /100 km, that is around 22-23 mpg US. until the last leg. I manged to charge 3 times, one time a campsite, 2 times in France, in 3 weeks. about 2200 km on the highway, the rest on back country roads and off road. But at the last part on the way home, I drove on the higway all of it,almost 700 miles, about 1100 km, with an atrocious headwind. Noise level was bad, wind would blow me all over the place, the Jeep was difficult to control, and it was drinking fuel like I never seen. On the highway, I kept it at 120 km/h on the GPS ( about 75 mph ) . On this last leg, I went from 10.7 to 11.7, but I actually think that for this particular part of the trip I probably averaged 14l/100 km. (16 mpg )


And some pictures from the trip
To my shock found some eucalypt forestes in Portugal. I did not know they existed in Europe. Almost full package, but no koala bears :) . Still great. The smell was unbelivable.

 

[leeloo]

Did a Easter trip trip in Spain and some tracks, but did not camp. In Spring, Even in Spain it can rain , have cold days, weather is unpredictable.
This time it was excellent, but during the night still a bit cold, even 5-6 Celsius in the morning, but it would warm up quick even at 27 during the afternoon.




I hopped from airbnb to another one every few days, regreting I did not had the guts to take all the camping crap.
And as I am getting older, I am less and aless atracted with putting up the camp and packing again.. + a bit more comfort will not kill me.
So , I arrived at the decision to get a small off road camper, there is a new company in Europe making some small ones.
Dry weight about 540 kg , hes 100 L water tank with a small sink and shower head, comes with shower cubicle on a side and a big awning, solar panel and battery system, a gel 80AH, roof holds 250 kg, So i can put a RTT on top if want, 2 sleeping places in side 140x200 cm, so big enough, and it fits in my garage. I have to mount a towing hook on my Jeep and I can go pick it up.


It is made of fiber glass in one piece monocoque, so it is seald and should be able to take some vibration from corrugations. Time will tell if I made a good choice.

 

[wigsajumper]

that is an interesting looking camper. Close a year now with the 4xe correct? Any issues? How is holding up?

 

[leeloo]

Love it. I got 23k km nothing - had recall for some software upgrade and water pump - possibility to leak, but the water pump was good, I knew even before I went in, I had no coolant losses.
On this last trip I had a 9.8 l/100 so 24 mpg US - very good, done over 6k km, I charged it maybe 1 time in 2 weeks. I don't drive very fast , I hate wind noise, but still is the best economy of all 4x4 I ever had, and on top is plenty capable.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

For the noise, since it is a jeep, you can pull the entire rug from the inside, and cover it with dynamat, then use the headliners to cut down there. It will make a good difference. I want one bad, but for the price here it's just too much money. I bought two wrangler unlimited previously. my 2011 I paid 38,000 on the road new. Can't buy a set of jeep wheels from them now for that.

 

[leeloo]

Did that , is still terrible. Still a brick. Or maybe I am getting more sensitive as I get older.
Anyway, this will be basically be solved since in Europe, if you have a trailer it is illegal to go over 100 km/h. So at that speed, with the insulation I added , it should be ok :) .
I am curious how the fuel economy will be affected. I saw a guy in the US did a test towing a boat much heavier than my trailer, but similar volume ( narrow and not so high, hides behind the vehcile completly ) and the result was very impressive. only 2 mpg extra. so from 24 he went down to 22. That would be great.
I got it for a very good price.

If you can believe it, in Europe they were in stock, and not moving, even in 2022. Wranglers are not very popular here, first of all, in most West europe, off - roading is not that popular, and the wrangler is considered too unrefined for the price and daily use. A pick up is a much more reasonably priced proposition for those who want to go off road, and even the lowest spec has better comfort and safety ratings. On top of it, it was sitting on the lot for 6 months so I got a healthy discount. And I have a semi diplomatic status that allows me to buy a car every 3 years with no sales tax or VAT what is called here.
All of it means almost I go it at 30 % off the normal price.
In my universe, while I like the Wrangler, its history and heritage, the off road prowess, it is not a 70-80 k euro or US $ vehicle in a milion years. I would never ever pay that kind of money . On the other hand, considering the good price point i Got, the very low depreciation, is not a bad deal for me personally.
Would I buy it again or keep for many years ? I don't know yet. I don't think so. Waiting to see the new Landcruiser Prado, right now that would be the only vehicle I would consider, Pick ups are too big for me. Or a 4x4 small van, we used to have good ones in Europe, like the VW T5 or T6, but the new model has no 4x4 option and its low to the ground ( emission regulation FTW ) , so I don't have any hops there.
So this is it in Europe for 4x4 SUV type overlanding vehicles . As new ones, you have the new Defender , wrangler and the Prado, that is in production since 2009 I think, so very old tech, and the lower trims look horrible in the interior.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

Did that , is still terrible. Still a brick. Or maybe I am getting more sensitive as I get older.
Anyway, this will be basically be solved since in Europe, if you have a trailer it is illegal to go over 100 km/h. So at that speed, with the insulation I added , it should be ok :) .
I am curious how the fuel economy will be affected. I saw a guy in the US did a test towing a boat much heavier than my trailer, but similar volume ( narrow and not so high, hides behind the vehcile completly ) and the result was very impressive. only 2 mpg extra. so from 24 he went down to 22. That would be great.
I got it for a very good price.

If you can believe it, in Europe they were in stock, and not moving, even in 2022. Wranglers are not very popular here, first of all, in most West europe, off - roading is not that popular, and the wrangler is considered too unrefined for the price and daily use. A pick up is a much more reasonably priced proposition for those who want to go off road, and even the lowest spec has better comfort and safety ratings. On top of it, it was sitting on the lot for 6 months so I got a healthy discount. And I have a semi diplomatic status that allows me to buy a car every 3 years with no sales tax or VAT what is called here.
All of it means almost I go it at 30 % off the normal price.
In my universe, while I like the Wrangler, its history and heritage, the off road prowess, it is not a 70-80 k euro or US $ vehicle in a milion years. I would never ever pay that kind of money . On the other hand, considering the good price point i Got, the very low depreciation, is not a bad deal for me personally.
Would I buy it again or keep for many years ? I don't know yet. I don't think so. Waiting to see the new Landcruiser Prado, right now that would be the only vehicle I would consider, Pick ups are too big for me. Or a 4x4 small van, we used to have good ones in Europe, like the VW T5 or T6, but the new model has no 4x4 option and its low to the ground ( emission regulation FTW ) , so I don't have any hops there.
So this is it in Europe for 4x4 SUV type overlanding vehicles . As new ones, you have the new Defender , wrangler and the Prado, that is in production since 2009 I think, so very old tech, and the lower trims look horrible in the interior.

Our limit is 100kmh anyways but we live in the windiest place on earth I think.

 

[AggieOE]

Did that , is still terrible. Still a brick. Or maybe I am getting more sensitive as I get older.
Anyway, this will be basically be solved since in Europe, if you have a trailer it is illegal to go over 100 km/h. So at that speed, with the insulation I added , it should be ok :) .
I am curious how the fuel economy will be affected. I saw a guy in the US did a test towing a boat much heavier than my trailer, but similar volume ( narrow and not so high, hides behind the vehcile completly ) and the result was very impressive. only 2 mpg extra. so from 24 he went down to 22. That would be great.
I got it for a very good price.

If you can believe it, in Europe they were in stock, and not moving, even in 2022. Wranglers are not very popular here, first of all, in most West europe, off - roading is not that popular, and the wrangler is considered too unrefined for the price and daily use. A pick up is a much more reasonably priced proposition for those who want to go off road, and even the lowest spec has better comfort and safety ratings. On top of it, it was sitting on the lot for 6 months so I got a healthy discount. And I have a semi diplomatic status that allows me to buy a car every 3 years with no sales tax or VAT what is called here.
All of it means almost I go it at 30 % off the normal price.
In my universe, while I like the Wrangler, its history and heritage, the off road prowess, it is not a 70-80 k euro or US $ vehicle in a milion years. I would never ever pay that kind of money . On the other hand, considering the good price point i Got, the very low depreciation, is not a bad deal for me personally.
Would I buy it again or keep for many years ? I don't know yet. I don't think so. Waiting to see the new Landcruiser Prado, right now that would be the only vehicle I would consider, Pick ups are too big for me. Or a 4x4 small van, we used to have good ones in Europe, like the VW T5 or T6, but the new model has no 4x4 option and its low to the ground ( emission regulation FTW ) , so I don't have any hops there.
So this is it in Europe for 4x4 SUV type overlanding vehicles . As new ones, you have the new Defender , wrangler and the Prado, that is in production since 2009 I think, so very old tech, and the lower trims look horrible in the interior.

That's a good deal! I'd be very interested in a Prado too. Do many people there take the tops off?

 

[leeloo]

Where I live we have 220 days of rain /year, so not so much :), but in the summer you do see them. In the south they do it more often

 

[Autism Family Travels]

That's a good deal! I'd be very interested in a Prado too. Do many people there take the tops off?

When I had my two, I had the roofs off every chance I could get.