Why not just a brush guard?

[RedRob]

No question, a really stout bumper like an ARB gives more protection than a stock one. It also adds more weight and costs more than a brush guard. A stout bumper might save you where a brush guard won’t if you have a significant impact. But there is this line of reasoning I’ve heard that a brush guard might cause more trouble because it will impact something you wouldn’t have otherwise hit and crumple into your grill and radiator.

My question is; Have you ever seen this happen?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Lindenwood]

It is a bit of a stretch for someone to argue "I might have stopped just in time, but the extra 4" of the brush guard caused the guard to bend in and smash my bumper!" Possible? Sure. Plausible? I suppose.

Further, I cant imagine an impact hard enough to crush the brush guard all the way through the bumper and into the radiator would not also, without the brush guard, do significant body damage.

All that said, I think they are largely for show and few of us do (or, should, given tread-lightly principles) enough off-trail driving that we really need to worry about pushing bushes out of the way.

 

[RedRob]

I appreciate your response. I know you’re not attacking me but I’m going to defend myself anyway.

I spend the majority of my "off road” time on Forest Service roads. I never blaze my own trail. But there can be a significant amount of brush intrusion over the path. That is the reason I’ve been thinking about this.

 

[RoarinRow]

A brush guard is just so much hardware up front but I guess protection is its purpose.

 

[Beard1911]

Where I'm at brush guards are just for looks. We are more concerned with cattle and large animals. Just my 2 cents

 

[mk-Zero]

Aftermarket bumpers generally have much better approach angles than stock bumpers as well, another plus for me over stock bumper + brush guard. Another plus is winch mounting. Oh, another is additional tow points. Depends on whether those things are important for the trails you go on. They are heavy and expensive though, on the down side.

 

[RedRob]

TBH, by shortly after I posted this I think I had talked myself out of it. My biggest concern is really my headlights, but I haven’t damaged them yet with low speed impacts with brush, so there’s really no benefit to a brush guard in that respect. They don’t protect the sides of the truck, so no gain there. I hadn’t thought about the approach angle. That really seals the argument against them for me.

 

[Kilo Sierra]

A brush guard is affectionately known as a damage multiplier in the Xterra circles. The reason is that in a front end impact, that brush guard can hinge into the grille, radiator, headlights, and hood depending on the model, where it may have only been a bumper hit. I've definitely seen enough photos to see how that could be true.

 

[Dcwn.45]

For me living in Mn , it’s about a deer strike.
It’s almost not if but when!

 

[RoarinRow]

TBH, by shortly after I posted this I think I had talked myself out of it. My biggest concern is really my headlights, but I haven’t damaged them yet with low speed impacts with brush, so there’s really no benefit to a brush guard in that respect. They don’t protect the sides of the truck, so no gain there. I hadn’t thought about the approach angle. That really seals the argument against them for me.

Personally it’s why went with a bull bar instead. I can access my headlight housings, I can and have added a 20” light bar, and I have some protection up front when and if I need it.

 

[Anak]

The argument about damage multipier vs protection is going to hinge on the designs of both the brush guard and the vehicle on which it is installed. If the guard is designed more for show than protection then yes, it can be a damage multiplier. However, I know from personal experience with the brush guard on my '73 Suburban that a brush guard can prevent damage as well. That experience involved a collision with another truck in which the brush guard was definitely involved. It saved the entire corner of my rig, whereas the other guy was looking at substantial body repair. Which he deserved.

What you have to look at is how it ties into the frame rails of the vehicle. If the brush guard solidly mounts directly to the front horns of the frame then it is not likely to hinge back into the grill, but if it is just mounted to the sheet metal of the bumper then it is more likely to bend backward, taking the bumper with it, or even tearing through the bumper. I have a brush guard for my XJ which falls in this category.

At the root of the problem is the willingness of the designer/manufacturer to start from scratch with a brush guard design vs. taking an existing design (or the foundation of an existing design) and tweaking it to fit yet another vehicle. You can guess which path looks easiest and most profitable in the short term.

If the Xterra folks are all saying that brush guards are damage multipliers then it is a good bet the designs (at least the most popular ones) for them are indeed damage multipliers, however I would not extrapolate from them that all brush guards are bad. There are designs which are done well. They have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

 

[Daryl 32]

I was involved with design and build specs on a lot of Grille Guards and Bull Bars from 2002 to 2010 or so. I came into a company that had been in business for years.

Each unit Grille Guard was a basic design shape reshaped to match the front of the new vehicle. Bull Bars were mostly all the same with specific designed mounts to hang them on.

In my experience 80% of the units that were being designed were for BLING and not function.

I worked at changing this with a little success.

In my opinion some vehicles are impossible to fit "functional" front end protection to. Because of the vehicles original construction design. Vehicles with unibody design, plastic front radiator core supports and or really thin frontal body panels. Then there is all the stuff, on newer vehicles, that they packed behind the grille and in front of the radiator. These are in the way of designing and fitting "good & STRONG" top support brackets, along with finding something strong enough to attach to. Most top support brackets on grille guards go to the top of the radiator core support no matter if they are steel, plastic or even strong enough to do anything in a hit. And they go through the small space between the top of the factory grille and bottom of the hood. So at best they are only 1/8" thick, most were 1/16" - 1.5 to 2 mm thick on the SUVs we were doing. In most cases, top support brackets were fitted to stop the road viberation of the GG a driver would see while driving and not to make sure the GG would protect the vehicle in a hit.

The most limiting factor in designing aftermarket vehicle add-ons can be a companies selling points, or marketing that is based on form over function:

#1 No cutting of vehicle body parts for install.
#2 Make it easy for a DIY "Totally unskilled person" to install. We had an in office saying "just because they own tools dose not mean they should use them to work on their vehicle!" that we could not use out side our design team.
#3 Price, Price, Price - I need to come in less then the competition.

Later I had the privilege of working for TJM an Australian company for a short time. After seeing what they "HAVE" to do and go through to be sell an aftermarket add-on in Australia, I personally currently lean to buying some products that are from Australia over products made in the USA.

Vehicles in Australia are very controlled by their federal government - basically it is illegal to do most mods to vehicles in Australia compared to the things we do here in the USA.

These are simplified statements and not the exact letter of the laws.
* All bumpers most be tested "government supervised" and proven to not effect any of the vehicles built in safety features before they ca be sold.
* All winch mounts are either tested on a vehicle frame to the braking point and then rated for winch size. Or tested to a max winch size rating to see that the frame can take it. If not more brackets will be designed and added.
* If bumpers and fenders have to be cut for fitment do it, then they will be tested and approved bumpers - function and safety of use is more important then form.
* They also consider and test that a finished bumper design dose not effect OEM engine function - such as cause over heating in the desert.
* I believe the number one reason for replacement heavy duty bumpers in Australia in the early days, was to lower front end damage caused be hitting the always present Kangaroo. This is also way most Australian bumpers in Australia have the big 1.5 to 2" hoops up over the head lights and grilles. They help to keep the animals out of the windshield/drivers face.

I have not hit all the points - just a quick over view of what I have seen and experienced through the years.

Basically a lot of US designed products are all about from "looks" over function to a point where some have very little function in my opinion. I make a lot of my own things ground up if I can because I have always been a function over form kind of guy. Point in case - I will always opt to take the time to tune on my car over polishing it and shinning the wheels, it is going to get dirty when I drive it anyway.

So before you buy anything stress related for your vehicle, down load the install instructions for it and review where and how it mounts. Then look at your vehicle and evaluate the shown mounting points positions and their strength. If you think their strong enough then move forward, if not look for another product.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

No question, a really stout bumper like an ARB gives more protection than a stock one. It also adds more weight and costs more than a brush guard. A stout bumper might save you where a brush guard won’t if you have a significant impact. But there is this line of reasoning I’ve heard that a brush guard might cause more trouble because it will impact something you wouldn’t have otherwise hit and crumple into your grill and radiator.

My question is; Have you ever seen this happen?

Thanks,
Rob

Personally, never. I've read about it online where people claim bumpers are "damage modifies" but as @Anak said, that speaks to poor design more than something that can be applied to all designs.

These are simplified statements and not the exact letter of the laws.
* all bumpers most be tested and proven to not effect any of the vehicles safety features before they ca be sold.
* All winche mounts are tested on a vehicle frame to the braking point and then rated for winch size. Or tested to a max winch size rating to see that the frame can take it. If not more brackets will be designed and added.
* If bumpers and fenders have to be cut to fit the tested and approved bumpers - go for it - function and safety of use is more important then form.
* They also consider and test that a finished bumper design dose not effect OEM engine function - cause over heating in the desert.
* I believe the number one reason for replacement heavy duty bumpers in Australia in the early days, was to lower front end damage caused be hitting the always present Kangaroo.

This is the best front bumper post I've seen online in a long time. I slimmed the quote because I feel this criteria is really important, and often overlooked. ARB and TJM are both highly reputable Australian brands that, as you mentioned, are legally required to consider this stuff. Safety cannot be understated -- a lot of aftermarket bumpers don't consider how they impact vehicle safety systems like Airbags. I trust GM/Jeep/Toyota to know WAY more about vehicle safety than I do, and so I want to try to preserve the factory safety systems as much as possible. It's my biggest hesitation to making my own bumper, but with my rig I may not have any other choice to get the part that I want (Alloy/aluminum bumper for a GMC Canyon). Everything you said aligns 100% with my experience and with the experience of a lot of overlanders. Great post!

 

[MidOH]

I've seen deer strikes that made the brush guard seem like a damage multiplier. Guard bent back into the hood and lights. I've never lost a hood and both lights on a fullsize truck, deer incident.

Don't really see anyone using them anymore.

Pretty sure that OEM manufacturers aren't going to be thrilled about ARB bumpers in head on fenderbenders. But if I bend my frame, I'll just trade in the truck.

 

[BCBrian]

As an example, here is a photo I found. This is a 1st generation Xterra and I have no idea who manufactured the brush guard.
This was obviously an accident on the road vs off road.

 

[Daryl 32]

As an example, here is a photo I found. This is a 1st generation Xterra and I have no idea who manufactured the brush guard.
This was obviously an accident on the road vs off road.

View attachment 103457

Good example of the way most Grille guards or brush guards are designed and function. This looks exacted that what used to get designed and sold at my old job, just fitted to a newer vehicle.

Buyer mentality " I better product may/is available, but it cost more and both are called the same thing so they most be equal - one manufacture is just trying to make more money. "

When I was growing up I was always told you get what you pay for. Bell Helmets had a sales slogan "if you have a $10.00 head then buy a $10.00 helmet". Helmets were a lot less back then, i think a good Bell Helmet was $50.00 to $75.00.

Please note: "That by Brush Guard the manufacturer means just that". Not trees, not over cars, not rocks, not deer, note Elke, not anything over then brush as in tumble weeds. In some areas like California and other brush guards are called grille guards, google search will bring up the same products under both names.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I've seen deer strikes that made the brush guard seem like a damage multiplier. Guard bent back into the hood and lights. I've never lost a hood and both lights on a fullsize truck, deer incident.

Don't really see anyone using them anymore.

Pretty sure that OEM manufacturers aren't going to be thrilled about ARB bumpers in head on fenderbenders. But if I bend my frame, I'll just trade in the truck.

Sorry to hear about your accident though I imagine a deer strike in Ohio is something you have gotten used to — I hear they are everywhere down there.

I’ve heard of similar stories about brush guards bending back, but to me that’s not the important question. Cosmetic damage is a given in a deer strike at highway speeds. What matters is mechanical damage.

A proper bull bar isn’t supposed to prevent cosmetic damage. When you hit a fleshy projectile weight 250lbs at highway speeds, stuff is gonna bend.

A good bull bar and even some well designed brush guards will take the brunt of this impact, and surely the vehicle will be damaged, but it will be way more likely to be able to drive home under its own steam or at least get out of the Bush.

In order to prove that any bull bar or brush guard is actually a damage modifier, it needs to be tested — so, using the same weight and same speed of projectile on two identical vehicles: one without a brush guard and one with a brush guard. According to ARB, they test their bars for exactly this kind of thing and the results are “bull bars help get you home”. Yes, it’ll still need repair but that is cheaper than dying of thirst waiting for rescue. Obviously the merits of this change depending on where you take your rig. If you are near towns and cities or tow trucks, or travel in a group, perhaps this is less of a concern.

 

[RoarinRow]

I have a bull bar. I def don’t want to find out if it will bend or not. I would probably more sad about the deer. :(

 

[RecklessCreation]

I'm sure a few have already touched this ... but I believe the main source of 'arguement' in this area is if it actually is a brushguard... or it just LOOKS like a brushguard.

as much as the construction of the brushguard matters... if it's hanging off some dinky brackets, and not mounted where the frame stubs are its going to do its best impression of trying to replace your radiator if you hit anything with more then mild force.

the proper purpose of a brush guard is just to stop things from hitting the grille/radiator and (if you have the extensions) your headlights... mild to barely moderate things... like branches.. or brush...

if you actually need to protect your front end from actual trees or rocks then aftermarket full bumper it is!

 

[wheelhard916]

I wanted to get some sort of front end protection. Mainly to act as a slider underneath for my engine bay components . I ended up getting a brushguard I found on Craigslist for 100 bucks . It hooked straight t the gram and does act as a slider . When I go over a rock i feel a lot better knowing it will hit That before anything else. One con is that I did loose approach angle clearance .