UV-5R as a mobile rig

[TundraChad]

I have a Yaesu FTM-400XDR in my Tundra and I use a hood mounted 1/2 wave no ground plane antenna. My girlfriend has been expressing interest in getting into HAM so she bought a UV-5R so she can start listening and getting familiar with the radio. I put the same antenna I have in my Tundra on her Jeep and hooked it up to the UV-5R and I was surprised that the radio performance was significantly worse than with the factory rubber ducky. I'm new to HAM so will someone tell me what I'm missing? I'm hoping some of your wisdom and experience will rub off on me. Is the radio not powerful enough for the antenna? Is the radio not able to filter what the antenna is capable of picking up? Is there something more obvious that I'm overlooking? Grounding issue?? All the connections seem perfect. Thanks!!

 

[Ubiety]

What happens if you connect the Baofeng to your Tundra's antenna? If it works well there then wiring/antenna would be suspect. Of course this will take your Yeasu out of commission but could be helpful if you can find another radio to test with. If you can remove the antenna from the mount you might try a continuity tests on both legs of the cable. What happens to the yeasu's performance with the suspect antenna/cable attached (if you can)?
The external antenna should make things significantly better over a stock baofeng antenna.

 

[M Rose]

I have a Yaesu FTM-400XDR in my Tundra and I use a hood mounted 1/2 wave no ground plane antenna. My girlfriend has been expressing interest in getting into HAM so she bought a UV-5R so she can start listening and getting familiar with the radio. I put the same antenna I have in my Tundra on her Jeep and hooked it up to the UV-5R and I was surprised that the radio performance was significantly worse than with the factory rubber ducky. I'm new to HAM so will someone tell me what I'm missing? I'm hoping some of your wisdom and experience will rub off on me. Is the radio not powerful enough for the antenna? Is the radio not able to filter what the antenna is capable of picking up? Is there something more obvious that I'm overlooking? Grounding issue?? All the connections seem perfect. Thanks!!

Your problem is the antenna on the UV-5R. I have been experimenting with antennas the past month or so mainly with the UV-5R and the Ic 7100. The problem is the wattage and the propagation of the UV-5R. A high end radio can make a mediocre antenna work, where a low end rig can’t make even the best antenna work... what I have found is that the commercial mobile antennas are rated for 100 watts, not 5 watts, so they don’t work well on low power. I have a mag mount for my UV-5R that is decent, but my home built mini J-Pole out performs the factory antenna... with my mag mount I can’t reach the repeater that is less than a mile from my house due to the RF interference between me and the repeater, but when I hook up my mini J-Pole I can pull in the repeater that is 80 miles away as well as the repeater that is less than a mile from home.

 

[Downs]

I have a Yaesu FTM-400XDR in my Tundra and I use a hood mounted 1/2 wave no ground plane antenna. My girlfriend has been expressing interest in getting into HAM so she bought a UV-5R so she can start listening and getting familiar with the radio. I put the same antenna I have in my Tundra on her Jeep and hooked it up to the UV-5R and I was surprised that the radio performance was significantly worse than with the factory rubber ducky. I'm new to HAM so will someone tell me what I'm missing? I'm hoping some of your wisdom and experience will rub off on me. Is the radio not powerful enough for the antenna? Is the radio not able to filter what the antenna is capable of picking up? Is there something more obvious that I'm overlooking? Grounding issue?? All the connections seem perfect. Thanks!!

If you live in an area with a lot of RF noise you may be overloading the cheap radio. You need to troubleshoot your coax as well.

This is a CB related article but testing coax works for any radio system. I put in a Motorola surplus commerical unit in my Jeep and had all kinds of issues right off and found out I had misinstalled the connector and grounded out the coax to the barrel of the connector. Whoops. Couldn't transmit more than 20 feet or so and my SWRs were pegged out and the radio was going into a self protection mode.

I've found hooking up handhelds (especially lower cost ones like UV-5Rs and whatnot) to external antennas while helpful is always going to leave you wanting. It's a bulky fiddly solution that would be better served with a real mobile unit instead. There are low cost 25w compact mobile units out there for around 100 dollars. Might be worth looking at over trying to jury rig a HT to use as a mobile.

 

[Downs]

forgot the Coax troubleshooting link . DOH!

How To Test for a Defective CB Coax | Right Channel Radios

An defective CB coax cable will result in sky-high SWR. Fortunately, testing CB coax is very straightforward and we show you how.

www.rightchannelradios.com

 

[M Rose]

If you live in an area with a lot of RF noise you may be overloading the cheap radio. You need to troubleshoot your coax as well.

This is a CB related article but testing coax works for any radio system. I put in a Motorola surplus commerical unit in my Jeep and had all kinds of issues right off and found out I had misinstalled the connector and grounded out the coax to the barrel of the connector. Whoops. Couldn't transmit more than 20 feet or so and my SWRs were pegged out and the radio was going into a self protection mode.

I've found hooking up handhelds (especially lower cost ones like UV-5Rs and whatnot) to external antennas while helpful is always going to leave you wanting. It's a bulky fiddly solution that would be better served with a real mobile unit instead. There are low cost 25w compact mobile units out there for around 100 dollars. Might be worth looking at over trying to jury rig a HT to use as a mobile.

The Yaesu FT-2980R is selling for 135 right now... great 85 watt rig.

 

[TheBronze]

When you say it work "worse" what do you mean? Is the receiver not hearing other signals? Is there a lot of noise? Are you not being heard on transmit?

A five watt radio into a mobile antenna is plenty of power to get out fine. I run a Motorola Convert-a-Comm in my Jeep and the radio only puts out five watts and its fine. One thing to be aware of with a Baofeng is the receivers on them are very loose. If you have a good antenna the antenna will pick up more noise that the Baefeng might not be able to filter out. If you are not getting out on transmit then it's likely a problem with the way you mounted the antenna or ran the coax. You say you used a 1/2 wave antenna but how is it mounted? What specific antenna is it? Also, a 1/2 wave antenna doesn't require a ground plane but it still needs a ground, so if you have something like a hood lip mount the paint can sometimes be enough to prevent good grounding.

Lots of things it could be so if you can provide a little more information we can probably help you.

Brian

 

[Dilldog]

The advice I have gotten with regards to Boafengs is to just run em as they are, they get super temperamental with some antennas. Some are great performers, others not so much, it's not the technology that let's these guys down but the QC. My UV5R has no problem hitting the repeater 30 miles away on the other side of down town with the factory rubber duck. But I have seen some that don't transmit for anything. If it works okay with the duck, just run it. I would save for a legit mobile unit but keep the Boafeng around to play with.

 

[TundraChad]

So I took the fender mount off, removed a little bit of paint and reinstalled. Works great now. Kinda wasn't expecting that to be the problem. I think she'll be installing a VHF mobile next week.

On a separate note, this afternoon we were up on Fremont Peak by Hollister and my 10 year old son used my other UV-5R plus to hit a repeater in Morgan Hill, about 40 miles away, and then talked to someone in San Francisco which is a little over 100 miles to the North of us. Pretty impressive for a $30 HT radio with the factory rubber ducky. Now he wants to study for his own license.

Pretty cool :-)

 

[Dilldog]

Thats awesome you go it sorted out. Grounding of the antenna is very important. Also some people trash talk the little Boafengs but they do work. Really at the end of the day a big part of being a HAM really is experimentation.
To Add: your experience has got me rethinking what I was told, and considering maybe it was from someone who just didnt like Boafeng. Im going to order an adapter to connect my UV5 to my base station antenna for funsies...

 

[M Rose]

Thats awesome you go it sorted out. Grounding of the antenna is very important. Also some people trash talk the little Boafengs but they do work. Really at the end of the day a big part of being a HAM really is experimentation.
To Add: your experience has got me rethinking what I was told, and considering maybe it was from someone who just didnt like Boafeng. Im going to order an adapter to connect my UV5 to my base station antenna for funsies...

My mag mount antenna, home brewed J-Pole and my store bought antenna are all way better antennas than the stock rubber duck... inside my travel trailer I can hit all of the repeaters (lots of static, but I can still hear and be heard) with my Nagoya NA-771 19” antenna. When I put the external J-pole on the reception comes in just as good as my base station... using the mag mount on my wife’s car I get excellent coverage. So yes antennas do make a difference for these cheap radios.

 

[DaleRF]

Your problem is the antenna on the UV-5R. I have been experimenting with antennas the past month or so mainly with the UV-5R and the Ic 7100. The problem is the wattage and the propagation of the UV-5R. A high end radio can make a mediocre antenna work, where a low end rig can’t make even the best antenna work... what I have found is that the commercial mobile antennas are rated for 100 watts, not 5 watts, so they don’t work well on low power. I have a mag mount for my UV-5R that is decent, but my home built mini J-Pole out performs the factory antenna... with my mag mount I can’t reach the repeater that is less than a mile from my house due to the RF interference between me and the repeater, but when I hook up my mini J-Pole I can pull in the repeater that is 80 miles away as well as the repeater that is less than a mile from home. View attachment 152236

More good info. Thanks!

 

[TheBronze]

"Also some people trash talk the little Boafengs but they do work." Those of us who are in the radio business do not hold Baofengs in high regard because they are poorly made. They have a proven track record of poor transmitters that are spectrally dirt and receivers that are wide enough to drive a truck through. So while they may seem fine, when you are transmitting on one frequency, it is highly likely you are also transmitting on several other frequencies. These random spurious emissions can, and frequently do, get into the input frequencies of repeaters and cause interference. Make no mistake, there is a world of difference between a $35.00 Baofeng and a better radio such as a Yaesu FT-65R. So for a few dollars more you get a much better radio that doesn't make a mess out of the spectrum.

 

[Dilldog]

"Also some people trash talk the little Boafengs but they do work." Those of us who are in the radio business do not hold Baofengs in high regard because they are poorly made. They have a proven track record of poor transmitters that are spectrally dirt and receivers that are wide enough to drive a truck through. So while they may seem fine, when you are transmitting on one frequency, it is highly likely you are also transmitting on several other frequencies. These random spurious emissions can, and frequently do, get into the input frequencies of repeaters and cause interference. Make no mistake, there is a world of difference between a $35.00 Baofeng and a better radio such as a Yaesu FT-65R. So for a few dollars more you get a much better radio that doesn't make a mess out of the spectrum.

Oh I'm under no illusion that a Boafeng can even hold a candle to an Icom or Yaesu. But if it has an FCC approval doesn't it need to stay on frequency? I'm sure there's a tolerance, so I guess I would just ask how far off frequency have you seen these guys get?

 

[TheBronze]

Read the ARRL review of the Baofeng. Nine out of ten Baofengs purchased for review FAILED the spectrum analysis test. Don't take my word for it, spend five minutes on Google and see for yourself. I've spent over forty years working with radio and I've used just about every system there is. The fact that China managed to bootstrap an FCC certification is proof of nothing but that fact that the FCC is a joke. Most of the time I wouldn't say anything when people want to buy and use cheap equipment. That's everyone's right to decide. But the Baofengs cause problems for legitimate repeater owners. When you key up on 445.480 and the thing puts out four watts on that frequency that's great. The problem is it's putting out signals on about eight other frequencies as well and those are sometimes in a place were it causes problems. Yes, I've seen them on a service monitor and yes they are that bad.

Off roaders take pride in building machines that can go into remote areas and be safe and reliable. They pride themselves on buying and building robust equipment that can take extremes. How many off roaders would buy cheap Chinese tires to go on a two or three day run across the desert? None, they would get the best tires they can because they don't want to take a chance. But then they cheap out on a toy radio for $35.00 when $85.00 would get them a radio that is solid and puts out a clean signal that won't cause issues for others. It just doesn't make good sense. Then they wonder why the Baofeng's receiver gets overloaded or it's transmitted signal is wonky.

 

[M Rose]

Read the ARRL review of the Baofeng. Nine out of ten Baofengs purchased for review FAILED the spectrum analysis test. Don't take my word for it, spend five minutes on Google and see for yourself. I've spent over forty years working with radio and I've used just about every system there is. The fact that China managed to bootstrap an FCC certification is proof of nothing but that fact that the FCC is a joke. Most of the time I wouldn't say anything when people want to buy and use cheap equipment. That's everyone's right to decide. But the Baofengs cause problems for legitimate repeater owners. When you key up on 445.480 and the thing puts out four watts on that frequency that's great. The problem is it's putting out signals on about eight other frequencies as well and those are sometimes in a place were it causes problems. Yes, I've seen them on a service monitor and yes they are that bad.

Off roaders take pride in building machines that can go into remote areas and be safe and reliable. They pride themselves on buying and building robust equipment that can take extremes. How many off roaders would buy cheap Chinese tires to go on a two or three day run across the desert? None, they would get the best tires they can because they don't want to take a chance. But then they cheap out on a toy radio for $35.00 when $85.00 would get them a radio that is solid and puts out a clean signal that won't cause issues for others. It just doesn't make good sense. Then they wonder why the Baofeng's receiver gets overloaded or it's transmitted signal is wonky.

The FCC rendered the Boafeng radio as illegal in 2018... in 2019 Boafeng resubmitted their designs to the FCC to become compliment.... so the V3+ Boafeng radios are supposed to have a lot cleaner signals, still not as good as a Name Brand Radio, but still decent. And for experimenting they are way better than a name brand radios because if you break it you’re not out hundreds of bucks.

By the way I have way more invested in coms than I do in my rig... and the only thing worth anything in my trail rig other than coms is my tires... and had the tires not been showing the belts I wouldn’t have put tires on it.

 

[TheBronze]

Rose, don't take it personally. if you're happy with Baofeng then have at it. I did this stuff for a job and I know what I'm talking about so I can't in good conscience tell someone they are making a good choice when they ask about buying a Baofeng. This is a free country so do as you like.

 

[Dilldog]

Read the ARRL review of the Baofeng. Nine out of ten Baofengs purchased for review FAILED the spectrum analysis test. Don't take my word for it, spend five minutes on Google and see for yourself. I've spent over forty years working with radio and I've used just about every system there is. The fact that China managed to bootstrap an FCC certification is proof of nothing but that fact that the FCC is a joke. Most of the time I wouldn't say anything when people want to buy and use cheap equipment. That's everyone's right to decide. But the Baofengs cause problems for legitimate repeater owners. When you key up on 445.480 and the thing puts out four watts on that frequency that's great. The problem is it's putting out signals on about eight other frequencies as well and those are sometimes in a place were it causes problems. Yes, I've seen them on a service monitor and yes they are that bad.

Off roaders take pride in building machines that can go into remote areas and be safe and reliable. They pride themselves on buying and building robust equipment that can take extremes. How many off roaders would buy cheap Chinese tires to go on a two or three day run across the desert? None, they would get the best tires they can because they don't want to take a chance. But then they cheap out on a toy radio for $35.00 when $85.00 would get them a radio that is solid and puts out a clean signal that won't cause issues for others. It just doesn't make good sense. Then they wonder why the Baofeng's receiver gets overloaded or it's transmitted signal is wonky.

That really does worry me to be honest. I have no problem running cheap stuff if it works, hell even if it just does OK (also to be clear the Baofeng isn't my main radio, I run Icoms at home and in the car). But talking about a radio "scatter bombing" frequencies isn't how I would like to operate, not to mention it's illegal. I always thought the main issues with Baofengs was clarity and strength of signal, I had no idea they wouldn't hold frequency. Do you know of a test the average person could perform to see if they are scatter bombing frequencies? Like I said above, my UV5 works well, but I'm not the type of operator to cause interference if I can help it.

 

[TheBronze]

Dilldog, you're not alone in not knowing. The average user wouldn't know because on your end they seem fine. On a scope it's a whole different story. As far as I know, the only way to really see what's happening with a radio is to put it on a service monitor. That's the only time you can see how tight the transmitter is....or isn't, and see the harmonic spikes. There are several videos on the web of guys that have thrown these things on a spectrum analyzer. Some of them pass...barely, but the vast majority are no where near within spec. I have a Yaesu FT-65R that I put on the scope and it came out clean as a whistle. The thing is when you open them up you can see the similarity of design. They even use the RDA5802 "Radio on Chip" design as the Baofeng's. But the components, build quality and tuning are worlds better on the Yaesu.

 

[Dilldog]

Well I had been thinking of grabbing a basic Icom HT, this may get me more serious about that. Also I downloaded the QST with the article in it that you pulled the chart from to read.