Toyota owners, I need your help!

[M Rose]

I would also look into a long block for your rig or even a junkyard motor with low miles and a 12/12 warranty (some junk yards offer this kind of warranty while others do not). It almost sounds like the shop doesn’t want the job.

 

[EXPO_D1]

Ive read this whole thing I just wanted to give you my two cents. (I am 10 year ASE master technician and I've ran a repair shop) Shakes 355 is correct on everything I've read. Definitely solid advice. My opinion is the machine shop labor seems high. I would ask what they are doing for that cost. Secondly (I don't know the mileage, but it's a toyota I'm guessing it's high?) a engine wouldn't be a terrible investment if you plan to keep this rig. I recently had to make a similar decision on my own vehicle. To me it was worth the cost to replace the engine. Again like you've been told we're random people on the internet with minimal information about the situation. If you need advice or have questions dm me I don't mind speaking with you about it. Good luck

 

[Trigger T4R]

Yeah, so some of this comes down to "if we're in there, why not replace it". In my experience (and again, I'm a complete stranger on the internet) it's not necessary to replace everything. It does provide a level of assurance, though.

Sidebar:: Parts markup is normal. In my experience, I can purchase parts cheaper online than our suppliers charge the shop. Online retailers cut out some middle men (which happens to be parts stores in this case). And most times, the price the shop receives is considered "wholesale" and is applied without tax. They are willing to pay that price because of the perks they get (hassle free returns and no restocking fees, free delivery, same day delivery, and supplier back warranty and even labor coverage in some cases)

Dont get too hung up on parts prices. Labor rates cover tech's wages, L&I, trainings, certifications, insurance (insurance is a bear in the shop), equipment, etc. Parts markup helps cover bills and subscriptions, service info, office and service staff, etc. And that extra cost you pay gives you a great warranty (3 years in your case; better than industry average btw) as well as the judgement and experience they bring to the job.

The list looks good. I question the need for the radiator (as you said it was replaced a few years ago), vvt solenoids and the cam gears (phasers/actuators). Sure they technically wear, but I've never had to replace any due to wear (only lack of maintenance causing carbon buildup). And the solenoids are easy to replace as they fail. Unless you have noise or codes (or if you've really skimped on maintenance) theres little functional advantage to replacing them.

Maybe ask about those and see if you're happy with the explanation.

The machine shop work seems high, but good shops charge well for their work and without an itemized list of their services, I dont feel confident speaking on the charges.

Edit: it also looks like they have coolant on there twice (totaling 3 gallons)

I agree, this is a big job and the truck does have 198k miles on it so I don’t want to be dealing with any more problems down the road, so the “might as well do it while you’re in there” is the case for me.

About the parts markup, your explanation makes sense absolutely & I can see why they do it. I actually asked my tech straight up, “why so high?” and he explained it similarly. I suggested that it may be a bit easier to swallow if the parts markup was lower and they charged more for the labor, or even charged a slight markup on parts, priced labor accordingly, but added a warranty cost, that way it would feel a bit more honest to the customer and he agreed and said he mentioned it to the owners recently. Don’t expect them to change they’re model anytime soon, and won’t get me a lower price I the end but at least they know I’m not blindly going to assume that’s the cost of parts because they say so. May give me some leverage in negotiating? But I digress...

As for the “extra” parts recommend for replacement, I have zero codes at the moment and never have for solenoids or phasers and such. Maintenance on my part (& from what tech says after scoping cylinders and all) has been impeccable. I baby her so, early oil changes with synthetic, Lucas oil treatments, recent engine flush, coolant flush, trans flush, dif & xfer case fluids etc. Most of the $8,000 I’ve spent in the last 2.5yrs on this truck has been preventative maintenance or upgrades. Never repaired something after it failed, or at least very early before catastrophe for sure.

When I asked about the parts list and if all was necessary, he explained that they add any part that they will be touching in the process (like exhaust manifold gaskets that literally we’re replaced with new cats while they were diagnosing coolant issue) because if for any reason it is damaged, they don’t want to call me on the back end with any “surprise costs”, which I can understand. I will definitely ask about the machine cost and what’s involved for the price. Maybe I can ask them to assess each part as it comes out (like the ones you mentioned) and if it doesn’t absolutely need replaced or show signs of wear, they can omit it from the repair list?

This is all ammunition I can take to them to negotiate and I appreciate every bit. Thank you!

 

[Trigger T4R]

I would also look into a long block for your rig or even a junkyard motor with low miles and a 12/12 warranty (some junk yards offer this kind of warranty while others do not). It almost sounds like the shop doesn’t want the job.

I have considered an engine/head replacement. However I have read some horror stories about buying Re manufactured engines having leaks upon install, and in my limited experience, cars have never run the same after replacing. Just too many unknowns with that option. I know my truck, and though their are risks involved in any situation, I’d like to minimize them at all cost.

Also, these V6’s are double the cost of the v8’s for some reason so not exactly a “cheap” option either.

Much appreciate your input on this as well!

 

[Smileyshaun]

I would consider KW block seal if it’s just a very very minute head gasket leak. It’s a bit of a pain in the process to use it with having to fill it flush it fill it run it flush it fill it again but if it bought you another hundred thousand miles I would say is well worth the time

 

[Trigger T4R]

Ive read this whole thing I just wanted to give you my two cents. (I am 10 year ASE master technician and I've ran a repair shop) Shakes 355 is correct on everything I've read. Definitely solid advice. My opinion is the machine shop labor seems high. I would ask what they are doing for that cost. Secondly (I don't know the mileage, but it's a toyota I'm guessing it's high?) a engine wouldn't be a terrible investment if you plan to keep this rig. I recently had to make a similar decision on my own vehicle. To me it was worth the cost to replace the engine. Again like you've been told we're random people on the internet with minimal information about the situation. If you need advice or have questions dm me I don't mind speaking with you about it. Good luck

I gotta say, I really admire the candor of everyone’s comments on this thread and you guys are amazing for offering your input with grace and honesty. Thanks for making this forum one of the best on the internets!

I will definitely take you up on that offer. I have to wait till Monday to move further on this and I will let everyone know how it goes.

Side note to all: I have gotten a quote from a friend of a friend that used to run the service dept at a Lexus dealership & has now opened his own shop. He quoted $2500 using oem gaskets and machining. I haven’t been able to speak with him yet but I assume this only includes that work and none of the other parts in my techs list so I will inquire further on Monday.

 

[Trigger T4R]

I would consider KW block seal if it’s just a very very minute head gasket leak. It’s a bit of a pain in the process to use it with having to fill it flush it fill it run it flush it fill it again but if it bought you another hundred thousand miles I would say is well worth the time

Forgot to mention, they DID put stop leak in it when I picked it up last week so we are crossing our fingers that it will “fix” the problem for the time being. Haven’t drove it much since then so I may take it out to Elsinore this weekend and see if it finds its way to the leak.

 

[M Rose]

I have considered an engine/head replacement. However I have read some horror stories about buying Re manufactured engines having leaks upon install, and in my limited experience, cars have never run the same after replacing. Just too many unknowns with that option. I know my truck, and though their are risks involved in any situation, I’d like to minimize them at all cost.

Also, these V6’s are double the cost of the v8’s for some reason so not exactly a “cheap” option either.

Much appreciate your input on this as well!

Reman engines leaking is from improper install... I can count in one hand the amount of leaking engines I have had out of the thousands I have put in.
I second @Smileyshaun idea of the block sealant... that is some great stuff and I have personally saved a couple of engines that way. I don’t like sealants like that, but once in a while it’s worth it... especially when it’s a minor fault like your symptoms suggest. But like others have posted, I haven’t seen your rig to be able to give a good diagnostic of it.

 

[Dilldog]

That quote does seem high, but as another professional mechanic I'll add to the idea that it isn't outrageous. I'm from a slightly different world being a Caterpillar engine tech. But when I tell the service writers what to put on a quote, it's basically everything I will touch. The idea being that quote should be the absolute worst case scenario. It seems like they are following that idea. But also, let's be honest here, that shop exists to make money. If you can get a customer to approve replacing a wear part that you will have off, then go for it. Also there is an element of liability protection there too. If you have a part removed for another job then it fails within the warranty period, where is the responsibility? But if you replace that part it almost guarantees there won't be another failure that could result in rework. Honestly there's a lot that goes into building quotes, and it's not just parts and labor calculations.

 

[Trigger T4R]

Hey all. Been busy at work and not a lot of time to address our issue but made some headway today so here’s an update...

Stop leak has not worked...

I spoke with the former Lexus tech today and he seemed knowledgeable and honest. It’s scary taking my baby to a new mechanic but excited to get her back in the road! He quoted me $2600. He will be replacing the head gasket with the oem head rebuild kit that includes gaskets, valve seals & head bolts. He will have a machine shop mill the head and check for any cracks or leaks before he puts it back on. He will be replacing the water pump with oem as well (for The additional cost of parts). He will inspect all parts that come out as he goes and will let me know if any other parts like cam sprockets, chain, solenoids etc. need addressed. No additional labor cost, just the cost of the additional parts if necessary. He offers a 1yr/10k mile warranty. I called my guy at the local dealership and he has sent me quotes for all the parts listed above (just in case any of those need to be replaced while I’m in there) and so I can see if I can get a better deal on them. My guy at the dealership said that the chain, solenoids, sprockets and such shouldn’t need replaced unless I was having prior issues which I wasn’t. Truck runs great other than the coolant spewing so hoping for the best

All and all feel pretty good about the call with him, I have an appointment with him on Monday next week to get it done (barring any discrepancies or opinions from you guys lol).

What do you all think? Anything you see that is a “must replace” while I’m in there? Any problems you foresee doing these parts only? Should it run the same as before? My mind is racing with thoughts of “am I doing it right?” Praying I’m not wasting my time or money. You guys are my “spotters” on this trail so I’m counting on you!
Thanks guys!

 

[Mike G]

What year is your 4Runner? I have an 03 V6 with 269k miles and I had the same problem after I replaced my radiator. I replaced the radiator cap and it fixed the issue for me.
Check out Toyota-4Runner.org. Theirs a lot of information on the head gasket issue.
If you do have a bad HG, just replace the gasket and check the heads. Last time I checked, the dealership charges around $3k for parts and labor. Labor was 40 hours. I would replace the water pump since it’s right their. No need to replace the timing chain if the oil was changed at the recommended interval. You may want to replace the radiator as well since they used HG sealant, at least have the radiator inspected for blockage. Good luck.

 

[Trigger T4R]

What year is your 4Runner? I have an 03 V6 with 269k miles and I had the same problem after I replaced my radiator. I replaced the radiator cap and it fixed the issue for me.
Check out Toyota-4Runner.org. Theirs a lot of information on the head gasket issue.
If you do have a bad HG, just replace the gasket and check the heads. Last time I checked, the dealership charges around $3k for parts and labor. Labor was 40 hours. I would replace the water pump since it’s right their. No need to replace the timing chain if the oil was changed at the recommended interval. You may want to replace the radiator as well since they used HG sealant, at least have the radiator inspected for blockage. Good luck.

It’s a 2004 4x4 with 196k miles on her. In diagnosing this coolant issue that started this whole thing, I did replace the radiator cap. Ya I’ve been scouring the t4r forums. I thought for a while that it was some other problem but the hydrocarbon test failing was the definitive answer indicating the head gasket. Good suggestion on the radiator replacement, I meant to ask if the stop leak would affect the system so that answered that for me, thank you. I will have him do that as well.

 

[M Rose]

Hey all. Been busy at work and not a lot of time to address our issue but made some headway today so here’s an update...

Stop leak has not worked...

I spoke with the former Lexus tech today and he seemed knowledgeable and honest. It’s scary taking my baby to a new mechanic but excited to get her back in the road! He quoted me $2600. He will be replacing the head gasket with the oem head rebuild kit that includes gaskets, valve seals & head bolts. He will have a machine shop mill the head and check for any cracks or leaks before he puts it back on. He will be replacing the water pump with oem as well (for The additional cost of parts). He will inspect all parts that come out as he goes and will let me know if any other parts like cam sprockets, chain, solenoids etc. need addressed. No additional labor cost, just the cost of the additional parts if necessary. He offers a 1yr/10k mile warranty. I called my guy at the local dealership and he has sent me quotes for all the parts listed above (just in case any of those need to be replaced while I’m in there) and so I can see if I can get a better deal on them. My guy at the dealership said that the chain, solenoids, sprockets and such shouldn’t need replaced unless I was having prior issues which I wasn’t. Truck runs great other than the coolant spewing so hoping for the best

All and all feel pretty good about the call with him, I have an appointment with him on Monday next week to get it done (barring any discrepancies or opinions from you guys lol).

What do you all think? Anything you see that is a “must replace” while I’m in there? Any problems you foresee doing these parts only? Should it run the same as before? My mind is racing with thoughts of “am I doing it right?” Praying I’m not wasting my time or money. You guys are my “spotters” on this trail so I’m counting on you!
Thanks guys!

That sounds more realistic... 1/10 warranty sounds good... and communication is most important... I would always stop and call a customer if things looked beyond just a HG (cracked head, burnt valves, scored cylinder, etc)

 

[Shakes355]

If I'm in the timing set, I will at minimum replace the chain tensioner(s). Too important and inexpensive to skip in my book. Guides, chains, sprockets, etc can be checked for wear and replaced as needed.

At that mileage having the machine shop do the stem seals is the right call. Again, bit of a no brainer.

One other thing of note. There is a sub harness down in the valley for the Knock Sensors. They are extremely prone to both heat damage and rodent damage. Real pain to change on it's own, but it will be right there with the heads off. If you can swing the extra hundred bucks or so for a replacement harness, its something I would recommend. Not sure if you have rodent problems in your area, but we also wrap the replacements in Honda Rodent Tape. It's a capsaicin infused grey tape, similar to electrical tape, meant for harnesses and hoses (want to use gloves handling the stuff). Honda factory replacement sub harnesses come wrapped in it from the manufacturer. We find Ford and Toyota have the worst trouble with rodents and have had good success with the stuff.

Congrats on the better price, btw. Hope everything works out for you.
Cheers

 

[Mike G]

It’s a 2004 4x4 with 196k miles on her. In diagnosing this coolant issue that started this whole thing, I did replace the radiator cap. Ya I’ve been scouring the t4r forums. I thought for a while that it was some other problem but the hydrocarbon test failing was the definitive answer indicating the head gasket. Good suggestion on the radiator replacement, I meant to ask if the stop leak would affect the system so that answered that for me, thank you. I will have him do that as well.

I was afraid you were going to say 2004. The 04 has the most reported HG failures, followed by 05 and the 06 with a MFR date of 05. I’ve read some late 03 models as well, but very few. Not all those manufactured in those years have the bad HG, so make sure the mechanic is on the bad HG.

 

[M Rose]

I was afraid you were going to say 2004. The 04 has the most reported HG failures, followed by 05 and the 06 with a MFR date of 05. I’ve read some late 03 models as well, but very few. Not all those manufactured in those years have the bad HG, so make sure the mechanic is on the bad HG.

Is this on the V-6 only in 03-05, or were the V-8s also prone to the HG failure?

 

[Mike G]

Is this on the V-6 only in 03-05, or were the V-8s also prone to the HG failure?

Only the V6. Check out Toyota-4Runner.org, they have a ton of information on all generations of 4RUNNERS.

 

[M Rose]

Thank for the info @Mike G. I’ll definitely be checking out Toyota-4Runner.org and setting up an account.

 

[Trigger T4R]

Thank for the info @Mike G. I’ll definitely be checking out Toyota-4Runner.org and setting up an account.

Btw all, I’m DreadgodT4R on toyota-4runner.org if you wanna find me. Great source for yota info!

 

[MOAK]

Hey all. Been busy at work and not a lot of time to address our issue but made some headway today so here’s an update...

Stop leak has not worked...

I spoke with the former Lexus tech today and he seemed knowledgeable and honest. It’s scary taking my baby to a new mechanic but excited to get her back in the road! He quoted me $2600. He will be replacing the head gasket with the oem head rebuild kit that includes gaskets, valve seals & head bolts. He will have a machine shop mill the head and check for any cracks or leaks before he puts it back on. He will be replacing the water pump with oem as well (for The additional cost of parts). He will inspect all parts that come out as he goes and will let me know if any other parts like cam sprockets, chain, solenoids etc. need addressed. No additional labor cost, just the cost of the additional parts if necessary. He offers a 1yr/10k mile warranty. I called my guy at the local dealership and he has sent me quotes for all the parts listed above (just in case any of those need to be replaced while I’m in there) and so I can see if I can get a better deal on them. My guy at the dealership said that the chain, solenoids, sprockets and such shouldn’t need replaced unless I was having prior issues which I wasn’t. Truck runs great other than the coolant spewing so hoping for the best

All and all feel pretty good about the call with him, I have an appointment with him on Monday next week to get it done (barring any discrepancies or opinions from you guys lol).

What do you all think? Anything you see that is a “must replace” while I’m in there? Any problems you foresee doing these parts only? Should it run the same as before? My mind is racing with thoughts of “am I doing it right?” Praying I’m not wasting my time or money. You guys are my “spotters” on this trail so I’m counting on you!
Thanks guys!

Good I’m pleased you got away from your “ trusted mechanic”. That guy was ripping you off. I read down the list of parts and the first thing that struck me was the use of Fel Pro gaskets. Always use Toyota gaskets. Fel pro may be good for old school American engines, but not Toyota’s. Then the long list of things to replace while it’s all apart.. 2 years ago I had my head off for leaking valve stem seals. With 295,000 miles everything, and I mean everything in there, including the head and valve train components was well within or better than factory spec tolerances. The only other new part I asked for was a new fuel filter, just because. Total cost- 1,250.00. Add a bit more because your in SoCal .. in your original post I deduced it was your head gasket. Coolant doesn’t overflow unless it is overheating or being displaced. In your case you weren’t overheating so something had to be displacing the coolant. Good luck