Too Much Information will destroy what we do.

[Downs]

One thing I've seen in addition to your comment about there being too many people - is the size of groups that go out. I think that also contributes to the Tom Foolery. Some of these groups are so large that they're bound to break/destroy/ruin things even if they're mostly being careful. This is one reason I won't go to some "favorites" any longer. The groups are just way too big.

There's been multitudes of this down in the Hill Country recently. Examples being a Dodge Ram group that got together and ran 70+ vehicles deep on the Hill Country Overland Route. There's been a few Jeep groups running with nearly as many down there.

I don't know how that could possibly be enjoyable to people participating. Just riding in a giant dust cloud all day. And I'm sure the locals living out there aren't super stoked about it either.

 

[GunninIt]

There's been multitudes of this down in the Hill Country recently. Examples being a Dodge Ram group that got together and ran 70+ vehicles deep on the Hill Country Overland Route. There's been a few Jeep groups running with nearly as many down there.

I don't know how that could possibly be enjoyable to people participating. Just riding in a giant dust cloud all day. And I'm sure the locals living out there aren't super stoked about it either.

Right. It's not enjoyable. Eating dust. Waiting your turn for a simple hill climb. And don't even mention stopping for a meal or camping overnight. Yikes.

Besides, all it takes in that party is the one turkey that decides he's going to drive down the river embankment instead of across at the designated crossing. THAT really pisses me off.

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

There is not much that gives my wife and I greater pleasure than to stumble upon an unknown and perfect campsite, to find incredible scenic vistas, or to traverse remote and beautiful trails, using paper maps, a compass and dead reckoning. Do we use apps when on the interstates or paved roads? Ah, yes. A very simple tool, Google Maps. It is nice to be able to find the nearest gas station, hotel or restaurant and have an idea when we'll arrive. However, out in the back country? Nope, we like surprises. We live for them. I was involved as a trail mapper with one of the earlier apps that gives turn by turn navigation, complete with waypoints, GPS coordinates, etc, etc, etc. Once I realized what I had gotten myself into, I bailed out after my first report. Here is a really good article by a well know world traveler. I like this guy, and hope to meet him someday. Sure, apps and navigation programs have their place, I get that, just not in my truck.

Are you an Overlander or an iOverlander? Or both? - Expedition Portal

Photography by Graeme Bell, Luisa Bell, Keelan Bell. Designed to enable access to specific and relevant information, travel apps have become an integral part of the modern overland experience. But, is this an entirely positive development? Are these apps essential? And how have these apps...

expeditionportal.com

We may have some differences but I agree with this biggest group I go with is 3 all family and it’s part of the fun not knowing what you will find also who wants to go in a big group of people telling you what to do when to stop I don’t care for all that I will do as I please here are some pics of an awesome spot that shall remain nameless lol

 

[MOAK]

im sure whoever actually owns that land has already named it and is probably wondering why a stranger would drive all that way to stack rocks there...

or why anyone would drive all the way there to take photos of their pick up truck. LOL hope joke is taken the right way, we're all guilty of taking way too many photos of our vehicles//

 

[GunninIt]

There is not much that gives my wife and I greater pleasure than to stumble upon an unknown and perfect campsite, to find incredible scenic vistas, or to traverse remote and beautiful trails, using paper maps, a compass and dead reckoning. Do we use apps when on the interstates or paved roads? Ah, yes. A very simple tool, Google Maps. It is nice to be able to find the nearest gas station, hotel or restaurant and have an idea when we'll arrive. However, out in the back country? Nope, we like surprises. We live for them. I was involved as a trail mapper with one of the earlier apps that gives turn by turn navigation, complete with waypoints, GPS coordinates, etc, etc, etc. Once I realized what I had gotten myself into, I bailed out after my first report. Here is a really good article by a well know world traveler. I like this guy, and hope to meet him someday. Sure, apps and navigation programs have their place, I get that, just not in my truck.

Are you an Overlander or an iOverlander? Or both? - Expedition Portal

Photography by Graeme Bell, Luisa Bell, Keelan Bell. Designed to enable access to specific and relevant information, travel apps have become an integral part of the modern overland experience. But, is this an entirely positive development? Are these apps essential? And how have these apps...

expeditionportal.com

Went back and read this article, MOAK. I'm not sure I can agree with his premise. Even in the days of yore - long before any digital assistance (which he still doesn't use), my dad was all about maps, planning, establishing a route, back-ups, likely fuel stops, places to camp/rest, etc. Now, we're talking the United States in the 70's and 80's, not Africa. That said, I think that planning is KEY (original Boy Scouts? Always be prepared!), and it's a lot of fun. That doesn't mean there weren't side adventures, getting lost/sidetracked/stuck - or finding something completely off our itinerary and plan to stop and stay or enjoy. You seem to be the same way as my dad based on your description - even in the modern era, but what the author of the article intimates is that this level of planning doesn't exist, forgone for the ioverlanding days, and I don't agree with that. I use the overloading apps and Google Earth to plan routes, stops, sights, etc. - but generally outside of some generic map overlays, don't look at where others have gone. I do agree with his comments on those out there looking to take advantage of someone - the good guys and the bad guys. That's troubling on both accounts.

 

[John21powerwagon]

Interesting post and I agree with most of it. Look at the recent stories about that metal artwork in Utah. In days someone counted 70 parked vehicles in the area. I live in the mountains and against the forest, it’s interesting to me how some things have changed, and yes the group sizes have grown., whether it’s mountain bikes, UTVs or 4x4s.

When I drive down to the desert I go by Cleghorn and see the hoards sitting on Hwy138 , a mix of traditional off-roaders and the newer crowd of show vehicles..... what’s the record for how much stuff you can bolt on a Tacoma or JK?

 

[J.W.]

There are no such things as "unknown spots." Every new spot you find, someone else knows about it too and when you "discover" it, someone else is upset that you found it.

The best we can do is be as low impact possible and set a good example. That way, more people can think they've discovered the spot as well.

 

[rgallant]

@J.W. That is a good point we drive there on some sort of track, so someone as been there at some point.

 

[GunninIt]

There are no such things as "unknown spots." Every new spot you find, someone else knows about it too and when you "discover" it, someone else is upset that you found it.

The best we can do is be as low impact possible and set a good example. That way, more people can think they've discovered the spot as well.

I just said this to my wife last night as I was doing some "ioverlanding" on the computer, planning for next spring/summer. I told her that I was finding some really awesome off-the-beaten-path spots. Then corrected myself and said there's probably 500 other guys looking at the same spot at the same time as me.

 

[GunninIt]

Interesting post and I agree with most of it. Look at the recent stories about that metal artwork in Utah. In days someone counted 70 parked vehicles in the area. I live in the mountains and against the forest, it’s interesting to me how some things have changed, and yes the group sizes have grown., whether it’s mountain bikes, UTVs or 4x4s.

When I drive down to the desert I go by Cleghorn and see the hoards sitting on Hwy138 , a mix of traditional off-roaders and the newer crowd of show vehicles..... what’s the record for how much stuff you can bolt on a Tacoma or JK?

SO TRUE. They feel like it's a show and shine, or some sort of proving ground for the other bros. It's why the OHV parks should be where most folks belong (Cleghorn included).

The last two times I was out in San Bernardino County, I saw less than a handful of people each day I was out. I guess I was in the right spots on the right days.

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

here are some pics of an awesome spot that shall remain nameless lol

im sure whoever actually owns that land has already named it and is probably wondering why a stranger would feel the need to make their presence known by stacking rocks there....

Ya I don’t know why someone did but I thought they looked cool when I seen them

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

im sure whoever actually owns that land has already named it and is probably wondering why a stranger would drive all that way to stack rocks there...

or why anyone would drive all the way there to take photos of their pick up truck. LOL hope joke is taken the right way, we're all guilty of taking way too many photos of our vehicles//

She is so pretty it’s hard not to lol

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

She is so pretty it’s hard not to lol
Behold her in all of her glory lol

yeah...you make a good point

 

[MOAK]

I just said this to my wife last night as I was doing some "ioverlanding" on the computer, planning for next spring/summer. I told her that I was finding some really awesome off-the-beaten-path spots. Then corrected myself and said there's probably 500 other guys looking at the same spot at the same time as me.

I get that 100%. Oddly enough though, 2 months ago we were off the beaten path for 5 or 6 days in a region that shall not be named. One a very popular trail, one not so much, nonetheless we encountered a total of 6 people the entire time.. I’m amazed that these places weren’t over run by all the “Overlanders” that there supposedly are. Hmmm is it possible there are a lot of posers on all the forums? No wait, we can’t go out alone honey, we gotta go in a big group so we don’t get skeeeeered

 

[rgallant]

@MOAK not seeing anyone for days is my preference.

 

[Jedi]

My preferred group size is 2... my wife and I. My next favorite group size is 1. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people that are part of the "overlanding" community and I enjoy spending time meeting those people. But when I am looking to truly relax and take in nature and different cultures, having other overlanders around just detracts from it.

 

[John21powerwagon]

Twenty years ago our Mojave road crowd hit 15 vehicles. That was a disaster. Too slow, too many road commanders wanting to be in charge. And of course the concerns about environmental impacts at each stop. Keep it small, keep it fun. Go out and enjoy right?

 

[MOAK]

Twenty years ago our Mojave road crowd hit 15 vehicles. That was a disaster. Too slow, too many road commanders wanting to be in charge. And of course the concerns about environmental impacts at each stop. Keep it small, keep it fun. Go out and enjoy right?

Hey, I lead a sanctioned tour of BESF for the TLCA, maximum 6 vehicles. Even at that there’s always someone that wants to be large & in charge. Cracks me up

 

[GunninIt]

This isn't an "overlanding" group that I can tell, but I really hate seeing these groups treat certain places this way. Go to the OHV parks. Anza isn't an OHV park (although many have turned it into that over the years).

Regardless, if I see the word "takeover" - ugh.


All that to say that I've been in large groups before, and they were a bit of mess. Very difficult to coordinate. Not everyone on the same channels for comms, not everyone using the same comms, no set pathway - or people venturing off on their own side show. I can appreciated being in my vehicle only, or having a second vehicle with me. Much more than that and you're definitely going to see challenges.

 

[Defiant Offroad]

I'm with you. As I'm sure many have realized, the "social media influencer" culture has caused an explosion in attention seeking and inexperienced people flocking to the trails and campsites. I've noticed many have to post detailed descriptions of where they're at, and then complain about the influx of people going there. If I'm going to an area that's well-known, I have no issues with posting where I'm at, but if I find a little corner of the world that not many people venture to, I generally keep that to myself. If I put pictures or video of it up, I'll either be vague about where I'm at, or even just say I'm somewhere else that's more well-known.
I've been doing this as a hobby for 15ish years. I consider myself "middle of the road" in experience. A lot of you guys have been doing this much longer than I have. In the last 10 years, especially the last 5, I've noticed a large uptick in traffic in some of the more common off-roading areas that I frequent (Mainly in VA and FL), which in and of itself isn't bad. The unfortunate aspect of it is that I've seen markedly more damage to trails, with an emphasis on people leaving the marked trails, leaving trash, and shooting signs. One of my personal pet peeves is when I'm out somewhere on a narrow trail and I'm stuck for 10-15 minutes while some new "So and So Overland" group with 20 rigs is stopped so everyone can take pictures, film videos, and send the drone up.