Tire talk

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hardtrailz

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Advocate II

1,663
Indiana
I am drooling for a set of Coopers right now. If I could swing the funds the STT Pro would be on my truck in a heartbeat. I would also run the ST Maxx for a more Duratrac or KO2 all terrain style pattern if that was what i was looking for. Around these parts the Coopers are showing up and preforming amazingly well.
 

pl626

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Pathfinder II

1,997
McLean, VA
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I've got the Cooper Discoverer ST/MAXX on my RRC. Aggressive tread & sidewalls, great in snow, dirt & mud, but super quiet on pavement. OC, my Borla exhaust does drown the tire noise, but the ST/MAXX are known to be super quiet. A friend has the STT Pros, which have a more aggressive tread, but are still quiet. Both are heavy tires though. I'll probably switch to the STT Pros because of the more aggressive treads.


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c_ema

Rank I

Contributor III

231
Italy
First Name
Emanuele
Last Name
Cassani
I'm running the GENERAL GRABBER AT2 in 265/75 R16 size, great AT tire, very quite a great grip in all conditions....



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murps

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2,309
Denver, CO, USA
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Long story short, I have a hook up who can get me Hercules Terra Trac AT II at a discounted price. Does anyone have any experience with them?
 

WUzombies

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Remember what I posted about delams? Remember how I said that manufactures typically don't do recalls due to settling out of court and having the cases sealed to prevent further lawsuits and losses? Guess what, that tire has been recalled (certain DOT manufacturing ranges) due to delaminations (tread separation from the tire casing at speed)!

http://www.herculestire.com/posts/2015/august/recall/#loaded
 

WUzombies

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WAIT, that was a different forum group. Here is that posting so you can learn from it:

Lets take a moment and cover some ground when it comes to tire choices (pun half-way intended).

Tires aren't just a performance product for a vehicle, they are a safety item. Every major tire manufacture has had some sort of manufacturing defect effect the safety of their tires. Most of the time when people hear that they think of a "blow out" which would be a catastrophic failure of the tire sidewall, the tire casing. That isn't the issue. A primary issue for a manufacturing defect is a tire delamination, that is when the tread separates from the tire casing, the casing often retaining air pressure. It looks sort of like when a commercial motor vehicle has a retread come apart and you see a "road gator" on the highway. There is a significant difference though, first unlike a CMV you only have four wheels, lateral stability can be compromised. The other is that a passenger car or light truck (which is the types of tires we are using on our rigs) tire isn't designed to have a retread. In the collision reconstruction industry we call these types of tire failures "delams" and also refer to them as "products cases" in that it is a product failure not a driver error that resulted in our investigation. It is important to note that when people like me get involved for a collision reconstruction either some person or persons died in the collision or experienced significant life altering injuries (think of something bad and I'm talking about something worse).

As you read this you think "but Dave, I've never heard about this before" and you would be right. Nearly all products cases, which are civil suits, are settled prior to a trial and the cases sealed. You wouldn't hear or read about them unless you worked in litigation or collision reconstruction, even "tire guys" that work at tire shops, company reps and others of a similar position often have no idea any of this occurs.

So what happens in a tire delam? You loose the ability to maintain lateral control of the vehicle. Depending on the vehicle design that often means a hard yaw, followed by a significant counter steering input and then another yaw in the other direction before the vehicle reaches a tripping point and experiences a rolling event. To put it plainly your vehicle swings towards the failed tire, then away and then you start cartwheeling down the freeway. Quite often the tires that are the most effected are the budget tires, but even the popular "good" tires from the big name brands have experienced issues. Many of those can be partly contributed to tire age. You may be thinking "but Dave, I've never heard of a manufacturing putting an expiration date on a tire before" and you would again be right. Not yet you haven't, I expect to see it in the next five to ten years (yes change takes that long). No manufacture wants to be the first because people won't understand why and will simply assume that it has to do with corporate greed, not from the results of hundreds and hundreds of deaths.

How to do you avoid this?

1. Buy name brand tires
2. Buy mid-range or better grade tires in the brand
3. Do not run tires that are more than 3-5 years old from manufacture date (look at the DOT stamp on the sidewall)

Even then you might still have a failure. When it comes to a delam often the effected tire won't show any signs of failure until it happens. No bubbles, buldges, odd vibrations, just you driving down the road and then you're off on the ride of your life.

I can't stress the following enough: every major manufacture has had a tire manufacturing defect issue. With overlanding rigs having a higher CG, especially with gear loaded on the roof, the propensity of the vehicle to experience a rolling event is higher.

Here is one test video that is using a professional driver who is expecting the delam and knows exactly which tire it would occur at. Please note that the tire casing retains air pressure:
Here is another video with a tire delam test. Once again a prepared professional driver:
 
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murps

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well @WUzombies ...you've kind got me thinking now....If the gf ever saw read/saw this she would never get into my jeep. Thank you for this.
 

WUzombies

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well @WUzombies ...you've kind got me thinking now....If the gf ever saw read/saw this she would never get into my jeep. Thank you for this.
My "real" job is in collision reconstruction, that was my expertise during my career in law enforcement. Tires are the tip of the iceberg, think of every "minor" traffic violation you might get a citation for. Things like low tire tread, speeding, rolling a stop sign, wearing a seatbelt under your arm instead of over your shoulder...I've worked cases where most of those "minor" violations killed someone.
 
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WJ - Firefly

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Off-Road Ranger I

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Casey County, Kentucky
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Goodyear
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I am running Kenda Klever M/Ts, 265x75x16. I got five of them direct from the manufacturer, through amazon, delivered to my house less than 40 hours later, for $750. Local guy near my work mounted and balanced them for $89. So far I am very happy. Low rumble when rolling under 5mph, then it goes away. I have around 10,000 on this set and will probably rotate sometime over the holidays. The tires on the ground still look like the spare on the roof rack, even though it hasn't seen the road yet. They are 10 ply, load range E.
 

IronPercheron

Rank VI
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Pathfinder I

3,346
Sweeny Texas
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0990

I will be odd man out...

I have cooper st maxx on a heavy ass superduty


Best damn tire i have ever owned... and i have owned ALOT of tires. I prefer then over the duratrac and bfg.



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MarkW

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Advocate II

2,566
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773

I am running BFG KM2s in 315/75/16. On my second set and very happy with them. Got about 50K on the first set and they probably had another 10K plus of good tread left on them.
 
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timberwolf_120

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Influencer II

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Ridgecrest, CA
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I am running BFG KM2s in 315/75/16. On my second set and very happy with them. Got about 50K on the first set and they probably had another 10K plus of good tread left on them.
You run em in snow at all?
I'm bout to pic a set of 5 up today for 198 a tire in a 35x12.50x15. Hope I'm making a good decision lol plus they are the cheapest 35s on the market right now.

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MarkW

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You run em in snow at all?
I'm bout to pic a set of 5 up today for 198 a tire in a 35x12.50x15. Hope I'm making a good decision lol plus they are the cheapest 35s on the market right now.
Man, that is a great price. If I recall I paid somewhere around $240 each for mine and that was the best price I could find.

Only snow I have had them in unfortunately was a little bit we found on the trail in TN several years back. Have an overland trip coming up in Feb where part of the goal is to get some snow wheeling in but of course that doesn't help you now.
 
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TreXTerra

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Advocate II

2,779
Salt Lake City, Utah
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BF Goodrich KO2 gets my seal of approval for snow. We had our first good storm here, I managed to get ice, hardpack snow, powder snow, and deep heavy slop and the KO2 did great in all conditions.

At one point the heavy sloppy stuff was so bad a VW Jetta managed to get completely high-centered, even with four people pushing on it, they couldn't get it moving. The XTerra with the KO2 tires pulled it out with no wheel spin at all, while crossing the ruts to keep the VW out of the gutter. I also tackled a steep snow-packed hill and it felt almost as good as dry pavement.
 
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pl626

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McLean, VA
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?..odd man out...

I have cooper st maxx...Best damn tire i have ever owned... and i have owned ALOT of tires. I prefer then over the duratrac and bfg.
Surprised the Coopers didn't make the OPs list. I love my ST MAXX, the only other tire I'd consider is the STT PRO.


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WUzombies

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Central Texas
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Surprised the Coopers didn't make the OPs list. I love my ST MAXX, the only other tire I'd consider is the STT PRO.


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All I can really say is that anything made by Cooper is very far from being on my list or on any tire list of a friend or loved one for the time being.
 

TreXTerra

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Salt Lake City, Utah
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Any particular reason for not liking the Coopers? Honestly, I don't see many Coopers out on the trail, all the times I see them is if they are sponsoring a vehicle or trip. Sometimes I see people with them they say that they would have liked another tire but the Coopers were less expensive.
 

WUzombies

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Central Texas
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Any particular reason for not liking the Coopers? Honestly, I don't see many Coopers out on the trail, all the times I see them is if they are sponsoring a vehicle or trip. Sometimes I see people with them they say that they would have liked another tire but the Coopers were less expensive.
See my above posts. That's all the details I can disclose.