Tire Talk 2023

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No Known Boundaries

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It's been a while since I wrote up any tire info, but I have taken many of them for a lot of miles, smiles, and more (or less).

Linked are thoughts on a few of the key players in the last few years for me. Of course there are more options, some of which I've discussed in the past, or just haven't written up yet. For example, I've used every flavor of BFG KO and KM across their multiple generations, and find them all to be so bad that I wouldn't run them for free longer than it took to put some money together for something else.

But if you're weighing options or just starting your research, here is some food for thought from someone who camps 6+ states and covers 30K+ miles every year.
 

MOAK

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Interesting; since the mid 80s until 5 years ago I must admit, I was a fanboy, guilty as charged of BFG KOs & KMs. Used them on various Ford pickup trucks and later, 3 Jeeps and finally our 80 series Landcruiser. Tens of Thousands of miles off highway and close to six hundred thousand miles in total. Never ever had a flat. After about 20,000 miles they would ride hard as a rock and airing them down a bit didn’t help. They were also terrible on snow and on wet roads would begin hydroplaning at about 1/2 treadlife. I just got used to it, the price one pays for no flats and always 50,000 miles of tread life. Then, 5 years ago, my tire guy challenged me to try something different. He even offered a nice discount. $75 less per tire was nothing to ignore. Soo- I bought a set of 4 General Grabber ATXs. That was five years and 56,000 miles. This past summer I bought a set of 5 and put the two best old ones on my trailer. Drove to the Arctic and back, 14,000 mile round trip. No flaws, no failures and, a much less harsh ride running 42lbs of pressure. BFG lost a lifelong customer. Why? Because they got fat & lazy, charged too much money, and the competition not only caught up to them, but surpassed them.

Just 2 cents from a guy too old to care what a newbie might think of how we do this “overlanding” thing.
 

Ethan N

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I've actually never used any of those tires you reviewed haha. I've had Coopers on an old Wrangler years ago and I currently have Milestars on my Gladiator, but my absolute favorite tire in my experiences so far are Delium Terra Raiders. ( See them at Priority Tire ) I was in between options and literally Googled "cheapest 35 inch tire" and these came up. They blew me away in performance, I ran them for approximately 25k-30k miles on highway, slickrock, mud, snow, in the rain, sand, everywhere. They never failed me once, I even have a video of Trent McGee and his Scout (yes that Scout) slipping up a steep rock in Utah and I followed him up like I was on glue.

I should have stayed with Delium Terra Raider when I went up to 37"s and I can't wait for these Patagonias to die so I can switch back.

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NMNomad

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I have had an excellent experience with a set of BFG KO2. They have 50k on them and have worn like iron. It is good to have competitive options. I appreciate your input.
 

Rehab_jlur

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Have about 50k on my Nitto Ridge Grapplers, zero issues. Been through every weather condition, slick rock, mud, snow etc. I'll never run another tire. I love how aggressive they look over most A/T tires.
 

rgallant

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I have been running the Coopers for about 10 years snow 1st on a R50 Pathfinder now on my Discovery II in BC. I have found them to great in the wet messy stuff that passes for snow here, up to about 12 inches they are fine but they start to struggle as it gets deeper and after a thaw freeze cycle or 2.

What I do like it they are well-behaved in the rain, no BFG product ever has been.

I do run on the skinny side at 245/70/16's
 

MMc

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The KO2's are pretty crapy. I'll be looking for a skinny something here in a couple of years or maybe a General tire. I'll be following this, Cooper makes the Micky Thomson Baja tire and the (maybe) the Dick Cepek tire too. My favorite tire is the one that takes me there and gets me home without using a jack.
 
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MazeVX

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I can second your opinion on the Grabber X3, never let me down, no flats not even a scratch in sharp rocks and tackled any terrain I threw at it. Currently driving them and will buy them again when they finally wear down.
 

MiamiC70

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Can someone explain how Falken and Toyos are now more expensive thanBFG KO2s and all are now like 30% higher than the 4 BFG KO2s I purchased in 2019! I’m so tired of the post pandemic BS blaming everything under the sun for price increases yet for two years all I see is record corporate profits.
 

MOAK

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Can someone explain how Falken and Toyos are now more expensive thanBFG KO2s and all are now like 30% higher than the 4 BFG KO2s I purchased in 2019! I’m so tired of the post pandemic BS blaming everything under the sun for price increases yet for two years all I see is record corporate profits.
I can, and a lot of others can as well. However, that would cross over into socio/political/economics talk and that would get all of us nowhere fast.
 
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No Known Boundaries

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Can someone explain how Falken and Toyos are now more expensive thanBFG KO2s and all are now like 30% higher than the 4 BFG KO2s I purchased in 2019! I’m so tired of the post pandemic BS blaming everything under the sun for price increases yet for two years all I see is record corporate profits.
As MOAK said, whole can of worms on the justifications for why.

But if you're having trouble swallowing it all, just know that Falken and Toyo are both well over 130% of the tire that a KO2 is. I'd kill to have a controlled lab where we could measure net friction on a variety of surfaces with multiple tires. I would bet the farm and my first born that the KO2 or KO3s alike would get blown away by nearly every A/T tire on the market today. And if we could take 10 sets of each and measure the mean deviations in balancing weight required, or the gross deviation between all points on the tread block over 40K miles, I'd bet they'd be bringing up the rear.

I really, really, really do not like BF Goodrich. So I'm biased, but I think my reasoning is completely neutral. I think you can do significantly better, and that it's worth that 30% (even if it is fluffed up, arbitrary market shenanigans).
 
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MOAK

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As MOAK said, whole can of worms on the justifications for why.

But if you're having trouble swallowing it all, just know that Falken and Toyo are both well over 130% of the tire that a KO2 is. I'd kill to have a controlled lab where we could measure net friction on a variety of surfaces with multiple tires. I would bet the farm and my first born that the KO2 or KO3s alike would get blown away by nearly every A/T tire on the market today. And if we could take 10 sets of each and measure the mean deviations in balancing weight required, or the gross deviation between all points on the tread block over 40K miles, I'd bet they'd be bringing up the rear.

I really, really, really do not like BF Goodrich. So I'm biased, but I think my reasoning is completely neutral. I think you can do significantly better, and that it's worth that 30% (even if it is fluffed up, arbitrary market shenanigans).
Back to your first born- is she good looking ?
 

DintDobbs

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@No Known Boundaries I'll agree, just from looking at the tread pattern, I always knew KO2's (and most of the rest of BFG's on- and off- road tires) were garbage. I need lateral and diagonal grooves, not straight cuts and water traps. Not going to hate on BFG, but I could spin BFG's street tires on dry pavement all day long, they were extremely unstable on braking, and whatever on earth the things were made of didn't even scrape off when you did a 55-MPH brake stand. This confused the police after an accident that a relative running BFG's got into. I shall never, ever, run BFG's, and I shall never, ever, recommend them to any one. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.

Been happy with my Nitto Trail Grappler M/T's off-road; they handle mud, rocks, dirt and sand like a champ, but are very soft and take damage from gravel (do not recommend for road use, very aggressive mud tire). The side walls are extremely aggressive.

Have also run Maxxis RAZR AT-811 A/T's on two trucks (think poor man's Ridge Grapplers, but with more laterally-oriented grooves). Excellent in sand and mud, and are a harder compound that takes gravel better and generally handles better on road surfaces than does the Trail Grappler (closer blocks, more rubber on the road). The side walls are remarkably aggressive on these as well, but not as flexible as the Trail Grapplers and I wouldn't trust them to the kind of strain I put the Nitto's through, so I haven't tested them as heavily.

I'd trust the Falken Wildpeak AT3 and the Nitto Ridge Grappler, although I wouldn't run them myself (specific use case). The Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac look like a good tread pattern for mud and sand, and I regard Goodyear's quality highly.
 
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Armor_LG

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It seems we have a wide variety of opinions here. I’ve been very happy with Goodyear duratracs, as they do a great job in snow, off road, and rainy conditions. Sure the road noise is there but that’s to be expected with this genre of tire anyways. I have had my eye on Toyo though, I’m just unsure if the R/T trail will be as good in snow, and plus I would like a C or D load rating for my next tire.
 
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rgallant

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I have found that running on the skinny side, significantly reduces my tire choices, in hybrid or more aggressive AT tires. I run a 245/70/16 and will go a bit taller next time 75 but not wider. It is very hard to find a tire option that is suitable, I have 2 very specific needs as I am in the Pacific Northwest, good in the rain and durable on gravel/shale loose rock. My Coopers have been good, but I am pretty open to other brands.
 

MidOH

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MT:
Cooper stt pro
Kenda Klever MT2
Maxxis Trepador
Interco Irok

RT:
Kenda Klever RT
Cooper st maxx

Ya'll striking out by running tires from 1990's magazine spreads. Check out Kendas lineup.
 
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DintDobbs

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@MidOH There tends to be two schools of thought amongst the tire shoppers.

On one hand, you've got the "tried and true" group that prefers old brands and old products that have been improved gradually over the years, and have been in the game for a long time.

On the other hand, brands recent to the scene can copy the experience of these older brands and products without having to play the trial and error game, and can more easily produce a product with competitive construction and performance without the expense, or the "legendary brand" pricing.

After making this initial decision, the issue then becomes whether you want to crapshoot with a new product, or use what you know; some times people become hard-set on a mediocre product (KO2, much?) because it's "good enough" or it "hasn't failed them", and miss out on the good stuff because of their unwillingness to change.

Understandable that you wouldn't want to risk disappointment, when it's $1500 for a good set of tires, but as you've said, at least see what's on the market before you buy some old, outdated design that isn't necessarily delivering the performance that could be had from a more modern application of science.

Personally, I avoided Kenda just because they're an unfamiliar product in my region, and the tread patterns didn't suit my requirements. I've never heard a bad review about 'em even once.

Meanwhile, when Nitto is cranking out Trail Grapplers for $350 each but Kenda's KR629 is $400 each, I'd be slightly more inclined toward the Nittos just for the price. Regionally, of course, the Kendas might be a lot cheaper for some buyers.

The Nittos have a slightly tamer tread pattern and slightly tamer side walls (comparing two extreme mud tires), and advertises itself as intentionally road-friendly and quiet (uhhh, not really either) whereas the Kenda's extremely aggressive shoulders and side walls scream that it's really not meant for road use. Between the two, it probably doesn't make all that much difference which you'd end up with, but personally I like how the Nitto's design has the shoulder combining the sidewall and the main tread patterns into one big, fat piece of rubber, while the Kenda has a thin seam separating the two treads. This might be insignificant in some use cases, or it could be the whole game. The RT you mentioned combines both treads at the shoulder as well, but has a significantly different tread pattern than these two I've compared.

It's nice to have options, and it's unwise to neglect alternatives when selecting the only part of the car that's supposed to touch the ground.
 
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MOAK

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It seems we have a wide variety of opinions here. I’ve been very happy with Goodyear duratracs, as they do a great job in snow, off road, and rainy conditions. Sure the road noise is there but that’s to be expected with this genre of tire anyways. I have had my eye on Toyo though, I’m just unsure if the R/T trail will be as good in snow, and plus I would like a C or D load rating for my next tire.
I’m curios why you would want a C or D rated tire for an overland vehicle?
 

MidOH

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The split ring between the side tread and tread, is for cooling and flex.
 
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