The Zello Option

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While off-grid communication is usually handled via GMRS, CB or Ham radio there is yet another option that groups might find useful. Push to Talk over LTE is an emerging technology that is being used by many industries that used to use two-way radio. Basically its an app that runs on either Android or iOS and acts as a two-way radio over LTE. You can put the app on your phone or you can use a dedicated device that looks and acts like a regular hand held radio. A few years ago my radio group had members move all over the Southern California area and one moved to Washington state. As a result we could no longer communicate over our local repeaters. We established a Zello channel and it allows us to stay in contact just as if we were using out local repeaters. For groups that travel over long distances to meet for overland trips the Zello option might be useful. It's free for private persons to use so why not give it a try? For devices that run Zello take a look at Inrico T320 hand helds.
 
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While off-grid communication is usually handled via GMRS, CB or Ham radio there is yet another option that groups might find useful. Push to Talk over LTE is an emerging technology that is being used by many industries that used to use two-way radio. Basically its an app that runs on either Android or iOS and acts as a two-way radio over LTE. You can put the app on your phone or you can use a dedicated device that looks and acts like a regular hand held radio. A few years ago my radio group had members move all over the Southern California area and one moved to Washington state. As a result we could no longer communicate over our local repeaters. We established a Zello channel and it allows us to stay in contact just as if we were using out local repeaters. For groups that travel over long distances to meet for overland trips the Zello option might be useful. It's free for private persons to use so why not give it a try? For devices that run Zello take a look at Inrico T320 hand helds.
I am a huge fan of zello myself
 

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That only works where you have internet connection. HF radio would be more reliable over longer distances.
I believe I was clear that it's not for "off grid" communications. It's for coordinating over long distances with others when not in an off grid situation. As for more reliable? I guess that depends on what you mean. You can go fire up a 40 meter rig and try to make contact with someone and if the band is in the right mood it will work. As someone that used HF in the military, and continues to use HF daily, I can attest to it being less than reliable. It works when it works. Since most every roadway, highway, freeway, city and town in this county has LTE coverage the Zello option is VERY reliable. If you've ever actually been at an LTE site you would find they are so well built that very little, other than a direct hit from a JDAM, can take them down. Even if an individual site does go down the system goes right around it and continues to work.

Push to talk over LTE is so reliable in fact that it is beginning to be used for missional critical communications. AMR ambulance uses it over the entire country and the whole country of the United Kingdom is in the process of transitioning to it.

I meet people for hiking trips that travel from hundreds of miles away. We coordinate via Zello and the coverage and reliability are excellent! So please understand I wasn't suggesting Zello should be a sole method of communication, but an ancillary option.
 
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M Rose

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I believe I was clear that it's not for "off grid" communications. It's for coordinating over long distances with others when not in an off grid situation. As for more reliable? I guess that depends on what you mean. You can go fire up a 40 meter rig and try to make contact with someone and if the band is in the right mood it will work. As someone that used HF in the military, and continues to use HF daily, I can attest to it being less than reliable. It works when it works. Since most every roadway, highway, freeway, city and town in this county has LTE coverage the Zello option is VERY reliable. If you've ever actually been at an LTE site you would find they are so well built that very little, other than a direct hit from a JDAM, can take them down. Even if an individual site does go down the system goes right around it and continues to work.

Push to talk over LTE is so reliable in fact that it is beginning to be used for missional critical communications. AMR ambulance uses it over the entire country and the whole country of the United Kingdom is in the process of transitioning to it.

I meet people for hiking trips that travel from hundreds of miles away. We coordinate via Zello and the coverage and reliability are excellent! So please understand I wasn't suggesting Zello should be a sole method of communication, but an ancillary option.
I don’t understand your comment about 40m HF… every time I turn on my HF rig 40m is hopping with POTA/SOTA activators and hunters… breaking through the pile up might be a challenge, but I find calling CQ on an agacent frequency gets me at least one contact. Jumping in on a Net gains me several more. I find HF way more reliable than LTE in my area… if it weren’t for my fiber internet I wouldn’t be able to even view this web page. And then there is the whole Bluetooth connection problem…. When Bluetooth works it works great, but when it decides to act up, it seams only the Hulk with Thore’s Hammer can wake up the connection.
 
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TheBronze

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I don’t understand your comment about 40m HF… every time I turn on my HF rig 40m is hopping with POTA/SOTA activators and hunters… breaking through the pile up might be a challenge, but I find calling CQ on an agacent frequency gets me at least one contact. Jumping in on a Net gains me several more. I find HF way more reliable than LTE in my area… if it weren’t for my fiber internet I wouldn’t be able to even view this web page. And then there is the whole Bluetooth connection problem…. When Bluetooth works it works great, but when it decides to act up, it seams only the Hulk with Thore’s Hammer can wake up the connection.
Then by all means, don't use it. I put this out so that people would be aware of it. To each their own.
 

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I can certainly see how it would be very useful, like you said, in coordinating over long distances BEFORE you go off grid so to speak or hit areas where LTE coverage is spotty (wich is A LOT of places in the NW, even along main roads). As for the other comments, I think your first sentence is a bit confusing and seems to imply that Zello can be used in an off grid situation.
That said, my father in law tried to get me to use it. It worked well but kinda felt like a solution looking for a problem. And where you mention that critical services and such are moving to using Zello for communication, I'm not sure that is accurate (could be wrong though). Most business and government services in Europe and here in the US use DMR, which is an internet based digital radio protocol. Its similar but does not rely on civilian LTE coverage and therefore will be more reliable in a disaster (read the LTE network will be flooded and unreliable with customers trying to contact loved ones, where as the DMR stations because they use thier own equipment to get into the internet will continue to function like any other day). Government was what DMR was originally developed for, us Hams just stole it, lol.
 
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I can certainly see how it would be very useful, like you said, in coordinating over long distances BEFORE you go off grid so to speak or hit areas where LTE coverage is spotty (wich is A LOT of places in the NW, even along main roads). As for the other comments, I think your first sentence is a bit confusing and seems to imply that Zello can be used in an off grid situation.
That said, my father in law tried to get me to use it. It worked well but kinda felt like a solution looking for a problem. And where you mention that critical services and such are moving to using Zello for communication, I'm not sure that is accurate (could be wrong though). Most business and government services in Europe and here in the US use DMR, which is an internet based digital radio protocol. Its similar but does not rely on civilian LTE coverage and therefore will be more reliable in a disaster (read the LTE network will be flooded and unreliable with customers trying to contact loved ones, where as the DMR stations because they use thier own equipment to get into the internet will continue to function like any other day). Government was what DMR was originally developed for, us Hams just stole it, lol.
[/QUOT

Well, I just retired after a thirty year career in law enforcement and I can assure you that it is being used. ESChat is used by many departments including AMR Ambulance all across the United States. My unit used Zello to coordinate detectives all over Southern California. LTE services can have tiered priority for public safety and even when they don't the reliability is so good it nearly always beats LMR systems. During the pandemic I set up a communications system at a vaccine site that had thousands of users in an area the size of a high school and there was no network slow down at all. Voice data takes almost no spectrum at all.

My collateral duty at my department was communications and I worked with public safety agencies all over the state. There is technically no "standard" for public safety radio systems in the United States. P25 became an APCO standard and at one point the Federal Government would issue grant money to agencies deploying P25. That money is long gone and now agencies are doing all kinda of things. Inyo County is in the process of going to an LTR trunked system on a private network. Mono County uses ESChat for their Fire and Sheriff's Department. In Europe the primary radio system type is TETRA not DMR. TETRA is being phased out and is being replaced by ESN which is a form of Mission Critical PTT over LTE. I never said Zello could be used off grid and never implied it in any way shape or form.

Look, I don't get what the argument is here. I suggested people look at Zello because over long distances its free, its easy and it works. It works so well that many trucking companies no longer even allow CB radios in their trucks, but they allow Zello. If you don't like it, don't use it, I don't really care either way. I was just trying to help some people because I have a lot of experience in communicaitons, both from the military and then later in public safety. After this, chances are I will never try and assist anyone again.
 

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Th reason you’re getting flack is because OB is very clear on the priority of Overland Coms. First is Amateur Radio, secondly is GMRS, and third is CB. LTE isn’t mentioned because it’s not reliable for Overlanding trail coms, or as an emergency coms backup off grid… we would have better luck starting a fire and sending smoke signals (especially the places most of us go).

Now Emergency Sat Coms are becoming cheaper and more readily available, and soon will be at the top of the list….

We aren’t trying to hinder you from participating, we are just showing your flaw in your logic.
 
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No problem. I guess this just isn't my crowd. I'll contact the administrators and have my account deleted.

Good luck all.
 

M Rose

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No problem. I guess this just isn't my crowd. I'll contact the administrators and have my account deleted.

Good luck all.
DM me.. I don’t want to see you go just because you view things differently then others.
 

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So there is a GMRS group on FB that hooked me into the Zello dealie and it connects my GMRS and (cell through the app) through all the repeaters in the network, pretty great actually.
 
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No problem. I guess this just isn't my crowd. I'll contact the administrators and have my account deleted.

Good luck all.
Sorry if I was too hash man, the last thing I wanted to do was drive you away.
 
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So there is a GMRS group on FB that hooked me into the Zello dealie and it connects my GMRS and (cell through the app) through all the repeaters in the network, pretty great actually.
So it kinda works as a phone patch too, interesting...
 
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My hiking group has members from as far away as a hundred miles. When we are all heading out to meet up we us Zello as our go to channel to coordinate. We find it incredibly useful. Once we hit the trail we use GMRS. I thought the off road community would find it useful and put it out there just so people would know about it. I really didn't expect it to start such a controversy.

And yeah, I do feel kinda jumped on. I made it pretty clear it wasn't for off road communication or to replace any other type of system and yet it was dismissed out of hand. I've spent over forty years working with radio, everything from VHF and UHF systems, to trunked radio systems, DMR, HF and even microwave and sat communications. Over those years I picked up a few things and thought I'd pass something cool along. At my agency we used the Zello app all the time and it worked great. There's other makers of PTT over LTE services like ESChat, Openwave PeakPTT and even TeamSpeak 3, but I gravitated to Zello because it was free for personal use and their app works well. I've used it on my phone and with devices designed for it from a company called Inrico.

I put it out there so people could be aware of it and decide if it's something they would find useful. If it doesn't work for someone's situation then obviously they shouldn't use it, but dismissing a new technology out of hand without knowing what it is or does is just kind of silly. Just google it and you can learn all you ever wanted to know.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I really regret even making this post and I doubt I'll be here in the future.
 

shansonpac

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My hiking group has members from as far away as a hundred miles. When we are all heading out to meet up we us Zello as our go to channel to coordinate. We find it incredibly useful. Once we hit the trail we use GMRS. I thought the off road community would find it useful and put it out there just so people would know about it. I really didn't expect it to start such a controversy.

And yeah, I do feel kinda jumped on. I made it pretty clear it wasn't for off road communication or to replace any other type of system and yet it was dismissed out of hand. I've spent over forty years working with radio, everything from VHF and UHF systems, to trunked radio systems, DMR, HF and even microwave and sat communications. Over those years I picked up a few things and thought I'd pass something cool along. At my agency we used the Zello app all the time and it worked great. There's other makers of PTT over LTE services like ESChat, Openwave PeakPTT and even TeamSpeak 3, but I gravitated to Zello because it was free for personal use and their app works well. I've used it on my phone and with devices designed for it from a company called Inrico.

I put it out there so people could be aware of it and decide if it's something they would find useful. If it doesn't work for someone's situation then obviously they shouldn't use it, but dismissing a new technology out of hand without knowing what it is or does is just kind of silly. Just google it and you can learn all you ever wanted to know.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I really regret even making this post and I doubt I'll be here in the future.
You make perfect sense, and I got something useful out of this. I can see the utility of Zello when in a caravan traveling to a rally point. We all spend a lot of time on asphalt prior to dirt. Thanks for sharing. Comms are comms. Not all technology works in every environment. The more tools, the better IMHO.
 
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While off-grid communication is usually handled via GMRS, CB or Ham radio there is yet another option that groups might find useful. Push to Talk over LTE is an emerging technology that is being used by many industries that used to use two-way radio. Basically its an app that runs on either Android or iOS and acts as a two-way radio over LTE. You can put the app on your phone or you can use a dedicated device that looks and acts like a regular hand held radio. A few years ago my radio group had members move all over the Southern California area and one moved to Washington state. As a result we could no longer communicate over our local repeaters. We established a Zello channel and it allows us to stay in contact just as if we were using out local repeaters. For groups that travel over long distances to meet for overland trips the Zello option might be useful. It's free for private persons to use so why not give it a try? For devices that run Zello take a look at Inrico T320 hand helds.
I really didn't expect it to start such a controversy.

And yeah, I do feel kinda jumped on. I made it pretty clear it wasn't for off road communication or to replace any other type of system and yet it was dismissed out of hand.
Just to clarify how I read your initial post (quoted above), your wording did actually imply that Zello is another off-grid option. Sure, knowing that it works over LTE/requires data should make it clear that it's not for off-grid comms, but I think some of the issue was that your post does read like it's an alternative to ham/GMRS/CB and folks were taking issue with its usefulness when overlanding. Not jumping on you or saying anything about Zello, just sharing how I took your post as it might help you understand why the thread went the way it did.

But please don't write the forums off just because of this one thread and don't take the criticism personally, the goal here is to discuss ideas and there are going to be differences in opinions. OB is one of the best forums out there when it comes to civilized overlanding discussions and I didn't see anything in this thread that I perceived as an attack on anyone. Ultimately you're going to do what you think is best for you, I'd just hate for you to miss out on some great discussions with good folks.
 

kunstmilch

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Just to clarify how I read your initial post (quoted above), your wording did actually imply that Zello is another off-grid option. Sure, knowing that it works over LTE/requires data should make it clear that it's not for off-grid comms, but I think some of the issue was that your post does read like it's an alternative to ham/GMRS/CB and folks were taking issue with its usefulness when overlanding. Not jumping on you or saying anything about Zello, just sharing how I took your post as it might help you understand why the thread went the way it did.

But please don't write the forums off just because of this one thread and don't take the criticism personally, the goal here is to discuss ideas and there are going to be differences in opinions. OB is one of the best forums out there when it comes to civilized overlanding discussions and I didn't see anything in this thread that I perceived as an attack on anyone. Ultimately you're going to do what you think is best for you, I'd just hate for you to miss out on some great discussions with good folks.
I believe (have no personal experience with this yet) that if you can hit a repeater on the zello network with your GMRS then you dont need the cell service and you would be able to reach anyone on that network. Personally however I get out and dont really like being connected.
 
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