The Semi-urban Suburban: 1997 Suburban K1500

[War machine]

What are you trying to store in there? The suburban is a beast of a vehicle I love mine I can pack for 5 take my rifles axe's shovels chainsaw fuel tanks food and camping gear and still have room.

 

[Pap SJ]

What are you trying to store in there? The suburban is a beast of a vehicle I love mine I can pack for 5 take my rifles axe's shovels chainsaw fuel tanks food and camping gear and still have room.

For a little it was hauling a couch around and then getting bikes to and from places, but now I have to figure out the long term plan. Some of my friends and I are planning a trip to Tennessee for either a canoe/kayaking or backpacking trip over the summer, so figuring out how to best pack it with lots of gear will be a trial and error deal.

 

[Graeman]

I miss being back home in Upstate S.C. There are so many places to see within 200 miles from Greenville. The Blue Ridge Parkway is alway nice and of course Deal's Gap is awesome to do on a motorcycle. You are making me homesick. I hate AZ :(

 

[Pap SJ]

Update: Suburban has gone through multiple trips to el Dealership for repairs, such as a driver door locking system to replacing a 20 year old hose and also tightening the steering. But, the Burb is back and working!

This summer we have taken another trip to Boone (only to swap out vehicles with my parents to the 2012 Tahoe), Hilton Head (in the Tahoe), and to Abbeville multiple times and back. I've been staying in the Oconee/Pickens/Anderson county area this summer working for Clemson University, and those times off has led to being able to venture out a little bit more. Here are some photos:



Two buddies and myself attempted to go to Devils Fork State Park and kayak on Lake Jocassee one Sunday, but the parking was entirely full and a ranger was telling everyone to turn around. Found an article on The Outbound's website about kayaking on Lake Oolenoy, and it wasn't more than a 30 minute drive away from the state park so we figured we'd give it a shot. Turned out to be a good spot for a few hours worth of kayaking and fishing, so highly recommended!




Got a call after work to go on a drive and to test out the GoPro, so the 66 'Stang saw plenty of mountain road driving (not my vehicle, but would be incredible to have)




View from my apartment complex in Seneca over the summer, wishing I still had this sunset view for sure




Visiting another mountain biking friend of mine on Clemson's campus, found this solid late 80's Suburban with removable rear roof, seems as if it came off a Blazer. Didn't get to meet the owner, but got several pictures including having the Tahoe be a feature.






Different Suburban than usual, got to drive this sucker around for a while since my Suburban was in the shop for extended periods of time.


I need to get more pictures of the burgundy Suburban on here, but figured it would be best to update in the least bit. Honing more into getting an extended roof rail system to haul more than just one kayak at a time, and also good radios for trail comm use. Tires to come within the next few months as the Michelins are starting to get to their end point. Also, any opinions on Surco Roof Racks? Their sizing and style is just what I've been looking for, but only complaint I've seen has been not the best customer service and the paint wearing prematurely as well.

 

[Pap SJ]

It has been almost a full year since touching this thread, and I can say that I have learned a good amount of things since this time last year. For those who are scrolling through looking for ideas/advice (especially if you are just getting into the whole overlanding scene and haven't fully pulled the trigger on a trip yet, but want to) please give this a good read. I had no full idea as to what I was doing, but it turned into something. Allow me to explain:



I have gone through this forum with many ideas of what I wanted to do to the Good Ole' Burb, but what has really helped me decide on what to install/modify/take away has come from taking the trips with what I have at the moment. Going on drives to Boone, traversing up mountains to get to hiking trailheads, and seeing ruts I was hesitant to take led me to the conclusion that ditching the Michelin M/S2's (great highway tires, would recommend for that purpose) and getting Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs was the right call. Minimal noise, really good wear as long as you rotate every 3000 miles, and excellent traction in mud/clay with decent mud extraction has validated this choice of tire. Sidewalls are aggressive which is nice, and also adds to further traction when airing down.

Before I mentioned getting skid plates, a Warn winch, rock sliders, stuff for heavy trail riding, etc. I do not need to make this a Black Diamond-scale trail cruiser, just a great long-distance traveler with capability to go where a slightly modified suspension full size can drive, but without having to worry about getting stuck. Here's what has been done to the Velvet Thunder since last time I posted:
-Transmission gave out, so did a 1-to-1 replacement of the exact same transmission (still an automatic)
-A/C lines got reworked, drainage now is not coming into the inside of the vehicle
-Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs, 265/75r16
-Replacement front seats, still red enough to slightly match
-Yakima roof rack system:
>Timberline towers
>XL Round crossbars, 78"
>Forklift bike rack
>SUPDawg SUP/Surf rack
>SKS Locks
-More stickers, hallelujah
-2" Ball hitch
-5 Prong trailer connection (conversion from only a 4 prong)
-ARB 30' 24,000lb Snatch Strap
-ARB Digital tire inflator
-Touch up paint around end of hood, roof

Going from that, here's why I got these things/what I realized I need:

Working at an outdoor outfitter has allowed me to take plenty of rental kayaks/paddleboards and get out on the water, as well as learn about camping tips that I did not consider before. Hauling multiple things on the roof is not easy with stock crossbars that kinda adjust and have a very limited weight capacity. Yakima's bars hold up incredibly well, take a beating, and keep on going. People ask "Why did you not just get a hitch mounted bike carrier?"; I have one, but for sleeping in the back of the truck/getting good access to gear, I would rather not have a bike rack blocking access to the vehicle. Plus, I can sacrifice some height with the bike on top. Never do I want someone stealing stuff from my car when I leave it out on the street, so the locking bike rack was a huge necessity and the SUP rack has a metal core that prevents people from cutting the rope and walking away with a new board. It has served me well when leaving it out on the street in downtown Charleston for nights at a time. Crossbars: if you are considering the size that you need, go ahead and pick one size larger (large instead of medium, medium instead of small, and small instead of "I don't think I need a rack").

After driving off Carolina beach at Freeman park, south of Wilmington, NC, at 3:30am on the 4th of July, I needed to air up my tires from driving on the sand. Four out of the five gas stations I stopped at did NOT have a working air compressor. Being in a new place, not being able to travel at a safe higher speed, and not sure who I was going to run into at 4 in the morning made me realize how necessary it is to bring everything you need with you. I had food, water, shelter, bug spray, gas, kayak, bike, cook gear, you name it..... but not an air compressor, pressure gauge, or a full sized spare in case I needed one. Therefore, that has to change. A spot has been cleared out under the hood ready for an air compressor, the ARB pressure gauge/tire inflator/deflator, and room for a full size spare has been added. The snatch strap came in handy on the beach (got pulled out twice), but what happens if I am stuck on my own on the beach without a 4x4 within miles? That's where having traction pads is something I am investing in. Did I mention that I got high centered when I was stuck? That is never a good spot to be in.

Hauling gear while also making your sleeping spot the inside of the vehicle is a tight squeeze. There has been plenty of things I could haul on the roof and make more room on the interior if I had a basket/box to haul it in. This has been all without having the third row installed, so if friends/family decide to take an adventure, I only currently have about a 3' by 3' space to get around gear.

In short, here is the 'feasible goals for the truck since I made mistakes in the past and things I still need' list:
-Traction pads
-Air compressor that can sustain an air locker as well as inflate tires (preferably the ARB system)
-Full size spare
-2500 rear leaf springs
-2500 torsion keys (both these suspension components may come from a donor vehicle)
-Roof basket/box
-FIRE EXTINGUISHER (wire almost went up in flames when trying to realign driver door window)
-MEDICAL KIT
-Yakima JayLow kayak rack
>Explanation: it holds up to two kayaks, props them up vertically for more room on the roof, and with the Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145 that I took to Wilmington down to Charleston in the above picture, it hung over the rear of the vehicle so I could not open the left side of the barn doors. That can definitely be avoided.
-Communications radio, still unsure as to what kind - advice is welcome
-Rear LED lights
-Locking rear differential
-Differential breathers

Thanks for reading through this entire thing, hope it helps/entertains/guides in any way! Here are some more random pictures for entertainment:

Kayaking during sunrise in inlet of Holden Beach


The Yorktown in the Charleston Harbor; paddled up Shem Creek into the Harbor


Sunset on 4th of July in northern portion of Mount Pleasant, SC

 

[Phildirt]

Plans sound good except maybe the 2500 keys. You should be able to crank the stock ones as high as you'd need to go. Anything further than that and you'll be on the droops with no down travel. May want to look into a diff drop lift, they are pretty cheap for that truck and you could de-crank for flat cv angles and still be higher up than with maxed out keys.

Also - you may want to dig a little but I believe the 1500 keys are indexed differently than the 2500 keys - the 2500 "lift" comes from the torsion bars, not the keys. Seems to me most guys lift a 2500 with 1500 keys, and the only way to lift a 1500 besides cranking the stock keys is to use green/Ford keys or aftermarket keys. Those level kits are so cheap it's not even really worth trying to source oem keys in either flavor IMO. Fleabay has "lift keys" for next to nothing compared to buying a knuckle kit.

 

[Pap SJ]

Plans sound good except maybe the 2500 keys. You should be able to crank the stock ones as high as you'd need to go. Anything further than that and you'll be on the droops with no down travel. May want to look into a diff drop lift, they are pretty cheap for that truck and you could de-crank for flat cv angles and still be higher up than with maxed out keys.

Also - you may want to dig a little but I believe the 1500 keys are indexed differently than the 2500 keys - the 2500 "lift" comes from the torsion bars, not the keys. Seems to me most guys lift a 2500 with 1500 keys, and the only way to lift a 1500 besides cranking the stock keys is to use green/Ford keys or aftermarket keys. Those level kits are so cheap it's not even really worth trying to source oem keys in either flavor IMO. Fleabay has "lift keys" for next to nothing compared to buying a knuckle kit.

Thank you for the input; I feel as though I'll try cranking the keys slightly (not maxed out by any means), adding a single leaf in the rear, and then find a 1" body lift. Right now I see no need for dropping a good amount of money for a suspension upgrade that would only be temporary.

 

[StuntmanMike]

Great build! I really like that body style Suburban, it's my 2nd favorite behind the "squarebody" style. That blue one you posted was quite possibly the coolest Sub I've ever seen.

I kind of want to do a Sub build of my own, but I'm not quite sure I need a fullsize (or at least one that big). Other option would be a Tahoe, which is still big.

Seems like you've been really thoughtful with your mods, and have been having fun the whole way. Good work!

 

[Pap SJ]

Great build! I really like that body style Suburban, it's my 2nd favorite behind the "squarebody" style. That blue one you posted was quite possibly the coolest Sub I've ever seen.

I kind of want to do a Sub build of my own, but I'm not quite sure I need a fullsize (or at least one that big). Other option would be a Tahoe, which is still big.

Seems like you've been really thoughtful with your mods, and have been having fun the whole way. Good work!

Thanks Mike! I actually stopped and talked to the owner of the Blue Burb recently; really rad guy along with a rad truck. Will try to post some details on his truck soon!

You mention the debate between a Suburban or something with a shorter wheelbase; what is your primary intended use? What vehicle are you using at the current moment?

 

[Malamute]

That's a journey for later down the road; for now I'm sticking with the stock axles and independent suspension for money/functionality reasons. Currently I'm thinking of ways to get the most use out of the third row being removed and second row being folded down for camping and individual travel. Any suggestions are welcome!

View attachment 19049

Ive made a cargo/dog shelf in the 2 Suburbans Ive had. The shelf wasnt intended to be quick release, as I gave the 3rd row seats to the wrecking yard just to get rid of them, but the attachment points wouldnt be difficult to remove if needed. I just never had more people in mine than the middle seats could handle and always had the dog.

My thinking differs from most on constructing sleeping and gear space. I dont want to reduce head room when crawling in or sleeping in the back. Rather than elevate me and have short gear space/drawers underneath, I sleep on the floor and the dog platform elevates the dog with gear underneath. For sleeping, the crossbar on the front comes off with 2 bolts, and gear can be moved to the front seat, beside me on the sleeping area or on the sides of the dog platform when the dog is there, or just use the platform for gear when sleeping if you dont have a dog. I left room on the side of the platform to get the spare out.

I made a similar platform in my 4runner and its working very well. I made it with plywood sides so it can be bolted together for some added security for gear, and the front still removed as needed. For around town use I leave the front bolted on and leave the rear board off and access stuff from the back. I can put groceries in there that the dog cant get to besides just keeping stuff out of sight and orderly

Pics, this was when using it as a daily driver, work truck and camping rig, the attachment details after the transmission died and the mice took over inside. :( With the white metal box in I think i was still able to use the middle seats.



4runner platform

 

[StuntmanMike]

Thanks Mike! I actually stopped and talked to the owner of the Blue Burb recently; really rad guy along with a rad truck. Will try to post some details on his truck soon!

You mention the debate between a Suburban or something with a shorter wheelbase; what is your primary intended use? What vehicle are you using at the current moment?

I would love to see a writeup on that blue Burb!

Right now I have a '07 Volvo XC70 wagon. It's all stock, it's not built up like YoungSatchel's on here. It's my DD, and I use it to commute back and forth to work and as a bike hauler. I like to mountainbike, and the bike fits easily inside with both wheels on, or I have a hitch mounted rack for when security is less of a concern. I don't really "overland" in it, it's gone car camping, but I seem to always have it stuffed with gear so I'm sleeping in a tent outside. Generally, we're camping because we're at a place we're going to ride, so all the bike gear takes up a bunch of room. After rolling up to a few campsites in the pouring rain, I would love to have it set up so I can just crawl in the back and sleep there. The volvo has the length, but headroom is lacking and gear fills it up quickly.

I'd like to do some mild offroading as well, but the Volvo isn't set up for that, and I don't want to start moddingt at 214k miles. Through a New England overland group I recently joined, I found a somewhat local group of modded Subie owners who go out, they said I could tag along, but advised strongly that I get skids and AT tires. Unfortunately I just realized that my AWD has stopped functioning, so I have to figure out what's going on there. That can get expensive, at it's age and mileage it might not even be worth fixing. Between the (up to) $1500 AWD fix and new tires, that easily exceeds the value of the car.

I know the Sub should be good on mild trails, and will have more than enough space for gear, stretching out, and the dog. However, I asked about it in the group and nobody else is running a Burb, the consensus is that it's too big to fit on the trails we have available. One guy posted a pic of his gf's Z71 Burb, and said that while it's very comfortable, no way could he see "dragging that school bus through the trails".

I'm advised something along the size of any gen 4Runner would be ideal for the area. When I thought my Volvo had a few years left, I was looking for a 3rd gen 4Runner as a weekend rig. Those have more headroom, but are still fairly small. I see what SubOverland does with their Burbs, and I would love all that space! (if you don't follow them on IG, check them out. Super cool builds). I was also advised a GX470 could be nice, or even a 100 series Landcruiser, though those can get spendy.

One guy in the group wheels a 1st gen Sequoia though, so maybe it's possible. He says it's tight, and sometimes he needs extra spotting, but overall it's pretty good.

I recently saw a '01 Yukon XL 2500 with 118k on CL for $5,800 that really has me tempted. It has barn doors and looks really clean. Part of me wants to just go for it, as realistically I won't be hitting the trails often. Though, if I get rid of the Volvo, this will need to be a DD, and 350 miles/week with a 6 liter 3/4 ton Burb could be pretty wallet destroying.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Pap SJ]

I would love to see a writeup on that blue Burb!

Right now I have a '07 Volvo XC70 wagon. It's all stock, it's not built up like YoungSatchel's on here. It's my DD, and I use it to commute back and forth to work and as a bike hauler. I like to mountainbike, and the bike fits easily inside with both wheels on, or I have a hitch mounted rack for when security is less of a concern. I don't really "overland" in it, it's gone car camping, but I seem to always have it stuffed with gear so I'm sleeping in a tent outside. Generally, we're camping because we're at a place we're going to ride, so all the bike gear takes up a bunch of room. After rolling up to a few campsites in the pouring rain, I would love to have it set up so I can just crawl in the back and sleep there. The volvo has the length, but headroom is lacking and gear fills it up quickly.

I'd like to do some mild offroading as well, but the Volvo isn't set up for that, and I don't want to start moddingt at 214k miles. Through a New England overland group I recently joined, I found a somewhat local group of modded Subie owners who go out, they said I could tag along, but advised strongly that I get skids and AT tires. Unfortunately I just realized that my AWD has stopped functioning, so I have to figure out what's going on there. That can get expensive, at it's age and mileage it might not even be worth fixing. Between the (up to) $1500 AWD fix and new tires, that easily exceeds the value of the car.

I know the Sub should be good on mild trails, and will have more than enough space for gear, stretching out, and the dog. However, I asked about it in the group and nobody else is running a Burb, the consensus is that it's too big to fit on the trails we have available. One guy posted a pic of his gf's Z71 Burb, and said that while it's very comfortable, no way could he see "dragging that school bus through the trails".

I'm advised something along the size of any gen 4Runner would be ideal for the area. When I thought my Volvo had a few years left, I was looking for a 3rd gen 4Runner as a weekend rig. Those have more headroom, but are still fairly small. I see what SubOverland does with their Burbs, and I would love all that space! (if you don't follow them on IG, check them out. Super cool builds). I was also advised a GX470 could be nice, or even a 100 series Landcruiser, though those can get spendy.

One guy in the group wheels a 1st gen Sequoia though, so maybe it's possible. He says it's tight, and sometimes he needs extra spotting, but overall it's pretty good.

I recently saw a '01 Yukon XL 2500 with 118k on CL for $5,800 that really has me tempted. It has barn doors and looks really clean. Part of me wants to just go for it, as realistically I won't be hitting the trails often. Though, if I get rid of the Volvo, this will need to be a DD, and 350 miles/week with a 6 liter 3/4 ton Burb could be pretty wallet destroying.

Decisions, decisions.

That is a lot to consider, for sure! Here is my 2 cents, no matter how much it is truly valued at:

You know the trails that you will be traversing, so I cannot make the call on if the Suburban/Yukon XL/Tahoe/Yukon will fit in terms of both width and length. However, it does sound like our intended use does overlap. My Burb hits the asphalt way more than the road-less-traveled, but when I do take that alternate route or the destination with plenty of exploration available, she does absolutely wonderful. It can be a tight squeeze down trails as a full size, but I do not mind that matter. Gas mileage as you mentioned is atrocious but that is one thing I do not mind paying for since I enjoy and use every single drop of fuel that I pay money for (call me crazy, I know). The Semi-Urban Burb has head both a heart and lung transplant (swapped engine, rebuilt transmission) which far exceeds what it should be worth, along with the tires, rack, and reupholstered seats. I have such a sentimental attachment to this vehicle and it has been a blessing in countless ways both to myself and others, which is the reason I could not willingly part with it despite a 4Runner being entirely more feasible as a vehicle.

So let's dig a little more in your case: An AWD Volvo could work as a trail riding rig, not the first choice of drive train or system, but something that stands out and that you can make work perfect (as I see potential in a lot of vehicles). Fixing that AWD system could be the determining factor in getting a whole new vehicle, depending on your emotional attachment. The space is invaluable, both camping, traveling, or just helping a friend move. Remember this: If you want to sleep in your rig, but have a ton of gear, it is always possible to get a roof basket and use water-tight containers and strap them down, or even a Yakima/Thule/whoever cargo box and slap that guy on your roof. I have seen Yakima's Skybox system up close; I have plenty of room in my car, but I want to get one regardless of that fact.

I have seen people sleep comfortably out of 4Runners, and I'm sure a Sequoia would be even more spacious inside. A Tahoe/Yukon (pre-2007) would have the rear bench seat fold all the way flat for a fact. You could sleep great out of one of those, and just get a good rack and toss your stuff up there (V8, towing power, taking charge on the road, and domestic parts with lower repair costs are all benefits). BARN DOORS ARE SUCH A GOOD CHOICE. You may have an interesting time opening them in tighter spots, but I value not having a liftgate where the hydraulics fail out every now and then, along with the door falling down on me once the weather gets cold.

Tangent line off of all that: Whatever you decide on, post it and let us know! It's never just about the vehicle alone, but what you do to it and what it does for you, and how you use all of those aspects together.

I am in the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of finding a good commuter/daily driver. Currently interested in either a Subaru Impreza (one Sub of each kind), Outback, or 2012 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport.

 

[StuntmanMike]

That is a lot to consider, for sure! Here is my 2 cents, no matter how much it is truly valued at:

You know the trails that you will be traversing, so I cannot make the call on if the Suburban/Yukon XL/Tahoe/Yukon will fit in terms of both width and length. However, it does sound like our intended use does overlap. My Burb hits the asphalt way more than the road-less-traveled, but when I do take that alternate route or the destination with plenty of exploration available, she does absolutely wonderful. It can be a tight squeeze down trails as a full size, but I do not mind that matter. Gas mileage as you mentioned is atrocious but that is one thing I do not mind paying for since I enjoy and use every single drop of fuel that I pay money for (call me crazy, I know). The Semi-Urban Burb has head both a heart and lung transplant (swapped engine, rebuilt transmission) which far exceeds what it should be worth, along with the tires, rack, and reupholstered seats. I have such a sentimental attachment to this vehicle and it has been a blessing in countless ways both to myself and others, which is the reason I could not willingly part with it despite a 4Runner being entirely more feasible as a vehicle.

So let's dig a little more in your case: An AWD Volvo could work as a trail riding rig, not the first choice of drive train or system, but something that stands out and that you can make work perfect (as I see potential in a lot of vehicles). Fixing that AWD system could be the determining factor in getting a whole new vehicle, depending on your emotional attachment. The space is invaluable, both camping, traveling, or just helping a friend move. Remember this: If you want to sleep in your rig, but have a ton of gear, it is always possible to get a roof basket and use water-tight containers and strap them down, or even a Yakima/Thule/whoever cargo box and slap that guy on your roof. I have seen Yakima's Skybox system up close; I have plenty of room in my car, but I want to get one regardless of that fact.

I have seen people sleep comfortably out of 4Runners, and I'm sure a Sequoia would be even more spacious inside. A Tahoe/Yukon (pre-2007) would have the rear bench seat fold all the way flat for a fact. You could sleep great out of one of those, and just get a good rack and toss your stuff up there (V8, towing power, taking charge on the road, and domestic parts with lower repair costs are all benefits). BARN DOORS ARE SUCH A GOOD CHOICE. You may have an interesting time opening them in tighter spots, but I value not having a liftgate where the hydraulics fail out every now and then, along with the door falling down on me once the weather gets cold.

Tangent line off of all that: Whatever you decide on, post it and let us know! It's never just about the vehicle alone, but what you do to it and what it does for you, and how you use all of those aspects together.

I am in the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of finding a good commuter/daily driver. Currently interested in either a Subaru Impreza (one Sub of each kind), Outback, or 2012 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport.

Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for the great insight!

I've been thinking about the Volvo... I don't really have any emotional attachment to the car. I can certainly see why you have attachment to your Burb, I would too in your shoes. It doesn't get good enough mileage to be a good commuter vehicle, and it's not rugged enough for trail work. So I really do think I'd be $$ ahead by finding something more capable and larger. I can take the hit on the mileage for a DD if it does everything else well. I figured it out that if I had a 15mpg vehicle, it would cost approx. $22/week more for fuel as compared to the Volvo. That's a lot less than the cost of buying, maintaining, and insuring/registering a commuter car. I can deal with that. Though, if I end up with a 100 series, that will be an optimistic figure! I think a 5.3L Tahoe would be better than 15, so the difference would be even less.

I think a Tahoe is a touch smaller than a 1st gen Sequoia, so if the guy in the group can wheel that, a Tahoe should work too. (Plus a better motor. I'll take a 5.3L any day over a Toyota 4.7. More power, better mileage, no timing belt to worry about). Downside to the Tahoe is that they are relatively low in stock form, and aftermarket parts are fairly few. Lifts are there, but pricey for a good one, and I don't think there are any options for aftermarket bumpers.

Barn doors vs liftgate... I like the idea of barn doors, I think they're cool. I wouldn't seek one out just for that feature, nor would I not buy one because of it. The big downside to the barn doors that I can see is that big center pillar square in your rearview mirror. That has GOT to hamper visibility. A plus of the that I can see is perhaps putting a fold out table on one side, and some sort of rack or storage system for tools/gear on the other. I can see having all my bike gear on one of the doors being convenient when I get to the trail. Liftgate is cool because when open, it makes a great shelter from the rain, and can also offer up a bit of shade.

The 3/4 ton sub I mentioned is gone, though perhaps I'd be better with a half ton. I won't be towing, and the 1500 is a little lighter, and the 5.3l a little more efficient.

Another Tahoe point is that a member here who owns both told me the Tahoe turns on a dime compared to the Burb. He said the Ho even turns tighter than his Firebird. (I have the same car, so I get the reference).

Anyway, I want to get out and start driving them soon.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[bladerunnerkc]

The console had to go in my 99 K1500. It had CD case holders and no cup holders. And no way to accommodate switches, radios, etc. Now I great cup holders, all my switches for lighting and power, and radio brackets. GM really missed the boat with that console.