Starting from scratch at 200k miles. Setup for failure?

[northwood]

I am new to overlanding and do not currently have a vehicle for it. I have dedicated $20-25k to get started. The vehicle needs to sleep 2 adults and 2 dogs, and be a workhorse at home for towing a boat, hauling brush, etc. Here's the rub — I'm not much of a wrench but would like to ramp up my mechanical ability. I really love the first generation Tundra's but am fearful of getting an old, high mileage vehicle (even if its highly regarded as being reliable) without the know-how to fix it in the field.

The vehicle we wind up with won't be a daily driver in the traditional sense because I work from home but it does need to be a secondary vehicle, not solely an adventure rig. I'm kind of a gear junkie/snob and want something unique that I can/or is already customized and suited for the job. Even though I think $20k is a lot of money, I know it doesn't go too far in motorsports. Which leads me to my question…

I've been looking at Tacoma's and Tundra's around my budget but they have left me wanting more. So my latest scheme is to track down a 2006 Tundra for less than $10k and spend the rest of my budget getting it healthy and upgraded. My spouse is on board but we aren't sure if investing in an old vehicle is the right choice (see above about not being much of a wrench…yet).

Any words of wisdom? Assurance? Discouragement? Should I start with something newer that is mostly stock or dive in head first and start replacing things right away?

 

[Road]

My first thoughts are that with $20-25K you should have no problem getting yourself set up. There's an awful lot of folks out there having a blast adventuring and learning a lot with total investment at far less than that. There are a lot of folks out there who have spent a ton more than that, too, who don't get out there more than a weekend or two a year.

My second thoughts are that getting a good older vehicle, making it healthy and fixing it up the way you want is great, and if done wisely your money will stretch further. But that narrowing the field down to a specific year and specific vehicle will make it way more difficult, and frustrating, to find. Keep an open mind when out there looking around.

I have invested in older vehicles for use as both adventuring and daily driving several times and have not regretted it. I drove and lived out of a $2700 diesel van all over North America for over six years. It treated me so well and cost so little to maintain that when I could get another vehicle I got the same thing, just ten years newer. That was over eight years ago and I still have it and still drive the piss out of it all over the continent. It has over 410,000 miles on it now.

Get a decent vehicle, get out and start using it for adventures and listen to your gut and heart before you start rigging it up the way you want.

If the desire is strong, the way will open.

.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

My first thoughts are that with $20-25K you should have no problem getting yourself set up. There's an awful lot of folks out there having a blast adventuring and learning a lot with total investment at far less than that. There are a lot of folks out there who have spent a ton more than that, too, who don't get out there more than a weekend or two a year.

My second thoughts are that getting a good older vehicle, making it healthy and fixing it up the way you want is great, and if done wisely your money will stretch further. But that narrowing the field down to a specific year and specific vehicle will make it way more difficult, and frustrating, to find. Keep an open mind when out there looking around.

I have invested in older vehicles for use as both adventuring and daily driving several times and have not regretted it. I drove and lived out of a $2700 diesel van all over North America for over six years. It treated me so well and cost so little to maintain that when I could get another vehicle I got the same thing, just nine years newer. That was over eight years ago and I still have it and still drive the piss out of it all over the continent. It has over 410,000 miles on it now.

Get a decent vehicle, get out and start using it for adventures and listen to your gut and heart before you start rigging it up the way you want.

If the desire is strong, the way will open.

.

I double ditto you Road. He said he didn't know a lot about mechanics. There is no better way to learn and I would bet he has a friend that may be able to help him on knowledge if not physical over a weekend and a couple of cold ones. Learning is fun and when you do it yourself the confidence will develop. The old saying that you learn from your mistakes is true. So I say just dig in a do it to a good used rig. Many can be found for under $5000 road ready waiting to be upgraded for more adventure. Start small and grow with the need and wants as you go. There is a very nice 2002 Land Rover Discovery for sale right here on OB that is the best starter I have seen anywhere. $2500 with a ton of good mods already there. He could put a brand new motor in it for $3500 and only have $6000 invested. I wouldn't even do that, I would take it and run with it as is.

 

[northwood]

Thanks for weighing in! And for the reality check on budget. It’s easy to get overwhelmed looking at these brand new $50k trucks that get $30k in mods before their first 10,000 miles. I probably would rather drive an SUV than a pickup, but I dunno if I could make that work for my other requirements (sleeping quarters, hauling stuff at home, etc.).

I’d like to find some books or online course to gain a working knowledge of vehicles. I’ve done the basics (swapping suspension or brake components) but very little in the engine or finding and replacing wear components.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Thanks for weighing in! And for the reality check on budget. It’s easy to get overwhelmed looking at these brand new $50k trucks that get $30k in mods before their first 10,000 miles. I probably would rather drive an SUV than a pickup, but I dunno if I could make that work for my other requirements (sleeping quarters, hauling stuff at home, etc.).

I’d like to find some books or online course to gain a working knowledge of vehicles. I’ve done the basics (swapping suspension or brake components) but very little in the engine or finding and replacing wear components.

Your dilemma about suv's are easily resolved.
You want to haul something, put a roof rack on. It can have a removable RTT for sleeping if more than two are on board. Nice tents are available at a much cheaper price. Learning mechanics is not that hard with the exception of today's electronics which literally are the brains of modern engines. Leave that and their very expensive equipment to the professionals. You need to move away from the fear of not knowing enough. You learn by doing. When you go to work every morning do you have a fear that your car won't get you there. Just because you will be going on seldom used roads dosent mean you have to fear your travels. Most breakage on the roads will come from normal things like fan belts, water pumps, clogged fuel filters, flat tires, and other things like that. Servicing and inspecting your rig is 90 percent of rig maintenance. Knowing what you and your vehicle are capable of doing is the red line.
You don't drive through your first mud hole 20 miles out in the boonies. Learn driving skills close to home or at least where there is cell phone service to call for help. Judgement and using common sense are your most valuable tools. Hang out with people who are like minded and pay close attention to what they
Do and say.
Now get that rig and get out there. The sooner the better.

 

[reaver]

Your dilemma about suv's are easily resolved.
You want to haul something, put a roof rack on. It can have a removable RTT for sleeping if more than two are on board. Nice tents are available at a much cheaper price. Learning mechanics is not that hard with the exception of today's electronics which literally are the brains of modern engines. Leave that and their very expensive equipment to the professionals. You need to move away from the fear of not knowing enough. You learn by doing. When you go to work every morning do you have a fear that your car won't get you there. Just because you will be going on seldom used roads dosent mean you have to fear your travels. Most breakage on the roads will come from normal things like fan belts, water pumps, clogged fuel filters, flat tires, and other things like that. Servicing and inspecting your rig is 90 percent of rig maintenance. Knowing what you and your vehicle are capable of doing is the red line.
You don't drive through your first mud hole 20 miles out in the boonies. Learn driving skills close to home or at least where there is cell phone service to call for help. Judgement and using common sense are your most valuable tools. Hang out with people who are like minded and pay close attention to what they
Do and say.
Now get that rig and get out there. The sooner the better.

This is sound advice right here. Another tip that was given to me when I got started was to use the vehicle as it came, and find out what it can do. You'd be surprised at the terrain a stock truck can handle these days.

Once you find out what the weaknesses are, that's your starting point for mods.

In my case, it was skid plates first and foremost, since I almost punched a hole in my transmission pan on one day trip.

My second weakness I'm addressing is ground clearance. I need a couple more inches, so I'm working on a differential drop, ball joint flip, and torsion bar crank.

And for what it's worth, my truck has 183k on the clock, with gm's notorious 3.5L 5 cylinder, and still purs even with a mild misfire, and gets 20+ mpg going down the highway. I'm learning to do my own wrenching as well. It helps to have someone who can walk you through something if you get stuck. Vehicle specific forums and YouTube are usually your friends.

I'd also recommend taking the truck to a toyota specialist for an inspection before buying one. Most dealers if you're serious will allow you to do this.

Hope that helps.

 

[Billiebob]

I really love the first generation Tundra's but am fearful of getting an old, high mileage vehicle

Old Toyotas are great buys. But I'd say buy the best low miler you can find, not a cheap basket case. Age is not the issue. Rust free, clean, well maintained with records. One owner... maybe plus plus.

Best thing about Toyotas or Fords, everyone knows how to fix them. You will never be far from a mechanic.

Best investment if you go this route......

 

[Anak]

I will say don't be intimidated by modern electronics. Especially OBDII (starting about '96). These systems make it very easy to diagnose many issues. You can even use them to interface with a smart phone and essentially get additional dash gauges out of them so that you can monitor parameters that aren't shown on your existing gauge cluster.

You will need to invest in tools however. Be aware that there are tools, and there are tool shaped objects. You do not want tool shaped objects. All those will do is bust your knuckles and round over your bolts. Spend the money to get decent tools. They don't have to be professional grade, but they should be pretty close to it. The ones with moving parts are the ones where you should plan to buy the absolute best quality you can afford. A couple of good Snap-on/Mac/Matco ratchets will be money well spent, even if you have to buy Horror Fraught sockets to offset the cost of the ratchets.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I will say don't be intimidated by modern electronics. Especially OBDII (starting about '96). These systems make it very easy to diagnose many issues. You can even use them to interface with a smart phone and essentially get additional dash gauges out of them so that you can monitor parameters that aren't shown on your existing gauge cluster.

You will need to invest in tools however. Be aware that there are tools, and there are tool shaped objects. You do not want tool shaped objects. All those will do is bust your knuckles and round over your bolts. Spend the money to get decent tools. They don't have to be professional grade, but they should be pretty close to it. The ones with moving parts are the ones where you should plan to buy the absolute best quality you can afford. A couple of good Snap-on/Mac/Matco ratchets will be money well spent, even if you have to buy Horror Fraught sockets to offset the cost of the ratchets.

Tools are a PANDORAS BOX. Be careful what you buy without knowing what you need. Tools are something you acquire over time as you need them. Electronic tools will have to be taught on their use because some electronic tools have multi uses. They are expensive when you get into diagnostic tools so be cautious and know how to use them before you buy any. Often tools can be bought for pennies on the dollar at swap meets and yard sales so don't go gung hoe on new tools.

 

[Billiebob]

I'm not much of a wrench but would like to ramp up my mechanical ability.

Don't go there or at least don't spend money on it. If you can change a tire you have all the knowledge you need. Invest in maintenance. Read the Tundra Manual and follow the maintenance schedule. Find a mechanic/shop you can trust and fix things before they break. IF you forgo that route and buy tools to do it at home..... you will get stranded often.

Do you do your own dental work or go to the dentist???

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Don't go there or at least don't spend money on it. If you can change a tire you have all the knowledge you need. Invest in maintenance. Read the Tundra Manual and follow the maintenance schedule. Find a mechanic/shop you can trust and fix things before they break. IF you forgo that route and buy tools to do it at home..... you will get stranded often.
Do you do your own dental work or go to the dentist???

Ditto, at least until you have more knowledge. I once wanted to put some new synchro gears in my transmission. I had never dissembled a trans before. I managed to get it all dissembled after about 4 hours. I put in the new gears and started to re assemble the tranny. I worked on it for 2 days and could not figure out how to re assemble that dang thing. I finally called on a buddy, he was there in 20 minutes. He disassembled what I had done in 10 minutes or less. Then started re assembling with me hovering over his shoulder. He had it back together in 15 minutes and buckled up. I wasn't to far off but I was off on the assembly slightly and it would not go back together for me. He made it so simple and after watching him I was able to repair several trannies over the years. That is the way I learned most of my abilities, by just digging in and trying, watching and helping others work on their cars. I read a lot before I try to do anything if I am not familiar and with the Utube videos we have today you can learn almost anything.

 

[Billiebob]

and with the Utube videos we have today you can learn almost anything.

but can you trust them ?
and what they might miss. An apprentice spends 4 years training but a youtube video can teach that in 4 minutes

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

but can you trust them ?
and what they might miss. An apprentice spends 4 years training but a youtube video can teach that in 4 minutes

I don't just watch one video. I know what you mean but what I am saying is that I know something before I start looking anyway. I can generally tell by watching and listening if these utube guys know what they are talking about. I've been tearing cars apart since I was 12 years old and built my first flat head Ford V8 motor when I was 14. I only work on the mechanical components of any car and body part replacement. I will not even touch the electronics other than parts replacement. I have always repaired my cars and trucks with success including differential gear work. It took study and instructions. I built ground up race cars for 20 years including all the welding and building the roll cages and body armor.
I guess I am just the sort of person who wants to learn by doing. At some point in time there is not any part on a car that I haven't replace or rebuilt myself. Most things I learned by doing or watching someone else and asking a lot of questions. Yes, if in doubt of your ability to fix something or an expensive tool may be needed, by all means hire a professional.

 

[Billiebob]

yeah yeah but this thread is not about you or me. it is about a guy looking for advice at his level. I get the impression he has not rebuilt a flathead yet

 

[LD5050]

IMHO with your budget and goals I would use a larger part of the $ on a newer, more reliable truck and only get the absolute essential upgrades at first. Then save up/ upgrade along the way as you’re financially able.
Takes a little more time and patience (which always sucks) but you end up with a much better setup in the end, with (hopefully) less ongoing maintenance and more peace of mind.

 

[northwood]

Thanks all for the variety of viewpoints. That is what I was hoping for.

In my case, I am not totally clueless. I grew up working on sports cars a bit with my dad so I have swapped brake components, suspension, CAI, bolt on exhaust, etc. Not a lot with engine internals or electrics. I do have some tools and have a woodshop for building furniture as a hobby, so having a tool in my hand is not a completely foreign concept.

The driving factor for my original question is whether its prudent to buy an 10-15 year old vehicle with the purpose of driving it many, many more miles with limited support. Sure, if I were a few minutes from my mechanic driving to work every day, there isn't a lot of risk there. Or if I was the one to drive up the miles in the first place and knew the vehicle, that too would be more comfortable.

Overall it sounds like y'all are in agreement that something well maintained (yourself or at a shop) is sufficient to get out there. Maybe I was too excited by the idea of customizing something I could find cheap, rather than something more vanilla that isn't quite so long in the tooth.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Thanks all for the variety of viewpoints. That is what I was hoping for.

In my case, I am not totally clueless. I grew up working on sports cars a bit with my dad so I have swapped brake components, suspension, CAI, bolt on exhaust, etc. Not a lot with engine internals or electrics. I do have some tools and have a woodshop for building furniture as a hobby, so having a tool in my hand is not a completely foreign concept.

The driving factor for my original question is whether its prudent to buy an 10-15 year old vehicle with the purpose of driving it many, many more miles with limited support. Sure, if I were a few minutes from my mechanic driving to work every day, there isn't a lot of risk there. Or if I was the one to drive up the miles in the first place and knew the vehicle, that too would be more comfortable.

Overall it sounds like y'all are in agreement that something well maintained (yourself or at a shop) is sufficient to get out there. Maybe I was too excited by the idea of customizing something I could find cheap, rather than something more vanilla that isn't quite so long in the tooth.

Neil, I hope I am hearing you correctly. What I have been saying is that if you have any automotive experience at all (and you do) then you should start off with a good clean well maintained used vehicle, that is not a high mileage vehicle (above 100,000 miles if possible). Drive it and find out how capable it is for the use's you will want. An overland vehicle is a multi purpose vehicle. How extreme you want it is up to you and as time goes by it will become more extreme, that's the nature of the game. I would like to remind you of a recent event that happened to Michael and Corrie over at the OB main office. Recently their rig suffered a major engine failure. It kept them from having a vehicle for several weeks while it was being repaired. Michael didnt attempt to repair it himself, he took it to his mechanic. On a trip not long ago his rig also had a failure and had to be towed back to civilazation for repaires. He made those repairs himself because it was just a parts replacement repair. I would bet that Michaels rig has at least 200,000 miles. He didn't get rid of it and buy something newer, He repaired it and kept it for good reason. It is a built rig (has all the mod's he wants) and it only suffered an engine failure so he had it fixed.

I didn't want to see you jump off the deep end into a new vehicle with a huge amount of mod's right off the bat. How do you know for sure that this off road scene is what you will want to do the rest of your life. How do you know that your family will want to continue with a life style that is less than desirable for many families. If it's in your blood you may go on but your family life changes over time and will drift away over the years. You could end up being a loner in your future adventures that takes you away from your family and their activities. IMHO I think you should find that used vehicle, not to exceed the $5000 to $10,000 range. Drive it as is and modify as your interest develops. A lift here and a tire there, a wheel here and a rock slider there. Equipment is the easy thing to add, but add it as you see a need for it. $5000 will buy a ton of equipment, mostly things you can and will do yourself. As you get braver you will suffer damage to your rig that will need to be fixed before you adventure out again. Like Michael, some you can do yourself, other things may need a professional to fix. Five years down the road with all of your experiences would be the time to invest in a newer rig as you travel more and farther from home if that suits your needs. I look at my rig as an investment into the future and as long as it will go and do what I want it to do, I will keep it, repair it and keep going. I am not into new, I am into ability to go and do what I want with peace of mind that my rig will love me back, take me there and bring me back ! Good luck on your adventure into the unknown.
Lanlubber

 

[The other Sean]

IMHO with your budget and goals I would use a larger part of the $ on a newer, more reliable truck and only get the absolute essential upgrades at first. Then save up/ upgrade along the way as you’re financially able.
Takes a little more time and patience (which always sucks) but you end up with a much better setup in the end, with (hopefully) less ongoing maintenance and more peace of mind.

This.
Buy the nicest, lowest mile vehicle you can afford, keep aside money for proper tires and some basic recovery gear. Get out with the truck and then determine what it might need. Tinkering on the thing is polar opposite from it being broken.......

 

[KonzaLander]

I am going to play the devils advocate here, since I took the route that seems the most unpopular... buy a cheaper, higher mileage rig for a fraction of the 'cream puff' price and invest in some sweat equity maintaining it and replacing worn out parts. Do not rely on a mechanic! With the funds left over, buy a few pieces of gear that either comes highly recommended for your vehicle or that you think will make traveling more comfortable. In the end, you will be very familiar with your vehicle and will know if/when something is going wrong and have a good idea of how to remedy that problem.

Since I mentioned the unpopular direction I took, I should elaborate. I picked up my one owner '99 Land Cruiser a few years ago for dirt cheap. I had a shopping budget similar to the OP, but I decided to buy this high mileage Cruiser. It had 245k miles on it and was in need of some maintenance (steering rack, ball joints, tires, etc), but unlike the last couple of vehicle I purchased it could be driven home. Over the years a few issues presented themselves (worn out wheel bearings, ignition coils), I continued with maintenance (timing belt and radiator) and I have done some modifications to the vehicle (dual battery, lift, bumper). One week ago I returned home from a short 3,000 mile trip and the Cruiser's odometer turned over 319k miles. My post trip inspection found one new problem...a loose review mirror.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I am going to play the devils advocate here, since I took the route that seems the most unpopular... buy a cheaper, higher mileage rig for a fraction of the 'cream puff' price and invest in some sweat equity maintaining it and replacing worn out parts. Do not rely on a mechanic! With the funds left over, buy a few pieces of gear that either comes highly recommended for your vehicle or that you think will make traveling more comfortable. In the end, you will be very familiar with your vehicle and will know if/when something is going wrong and have a good idea of how to remedy that problem.

Since I mentioned the unpopular direction I took, I should elaborate. I picked up my one owner '99 Land Cruiser a few years ago for dirt cheap. I had a shopping budget similar to the OP, but I decided to buy this high mileage Cruiser. It had 245k miles on it and was in need of some maintenance (steering rack, ball joints, tires, etc), but unlike the last couple of vehicle I purchased it could be driven home. Over the years a few issues presented themselves (worn out wheel bearings, ignition coils), I continued with maintenance (timing belt and radiator) and I have done some modifications to the vehicle (dual battery, lift, bumper). One week ago I returned home from a short 3,000 mile trip and the Cruiser's odometer turned over 319k miles. My post trip inspection found one new problem...a loose review mirror.

That's what I'm talking about. It's possible to buy a low mileage vehicle newer truck with lets say 90,000 miles. It may be about to need many new parts and becomes a money bomb. My daily driver (@ 120,000 miles) started needing $250 alternator + another $250 installation + while it was down a replacement timing belt @ $100 and new battery @ $120, all of which at 84 years old I couldn't do without a car lift that I don't happen to own. It also needed a new set of tires, another $800 bucks. Many vehicles with 150,000 miles have already had the work done as a part of the constant maintenance of an auto unless the previous owner was one of those who never fix anything then dumps it for a new car, and you end up with it.. Either way an older car will need work from time to time but it is far better than paying $20,000 up front for an auto that could still need similar work.
I keep wondering why anyone would want to take a new vehicle into the boonies. You cant take a vehicle out in the boonies and not expect it to be damaged in some way, especially if it is not prepared for river crossings, steep rocky roads, mud up to the axels and low hanging tree branches or cacti in the desert. A new vehicle doesn't come with the off road stuff, it has to be added to both old and new vehicles. If you have the money and not the time or mechanical ability but want to hit the back roads, then I can understand the new car purchase because you must have money to burn and so be it. Go do your thing any I will do it with you if we meet.