Rednecks and litter/trash/rubbish

[Smokey_Bear_JLUR]

OK, to start- my apologies for anyone taking the "redneck" label the wrong way, as I have multiple buddies who proudly claim redneck status and DO NOT litter.

That being said- what's the worst you've seen, with regards to trash on a trail? Here in Missouri- when it was legal to run trails in the Mark Twain National Forest, there was a popular spot with a solid, extended single-lanes hill climb. Unfortunately, it was also a popular off-grip campsite for locals. There was so much trash there, it really hacked me off. A few of us from the local Jeep club did a clean-up, hoping it would help keep the area open, but we're talking about people dumping beds and old, full sized old school tv satellites. On one trail, there was even an obviously stolen, and subsequently burned, Trans Am. Kind of amazing it made it as far as it did on that trail to be honest...

Anyway, those experiences really made me become vocal about leaving things better than you found them. It's also lead me to have a couple confrontations with a few hillbillies in the woods.

What can we do better/more of to keep this from happening?

Cheers,

Kühn

 

[Captain Chaos]

Short of putting up cameras everywhere, about all you can hope for is a piece of mail with an address on it in the litter. Park rangers will fine them if there is an address.
When you catch them, write down their license plate number, or better yet, take a picture of it. Give it to the authorities.
Every time we go out, we bring back a trasharoo full of garbage. I get pretty disgusted at how much crap people throw out. Most could be dumped for less than $20 if it was brought to the landfill.

 

[HeliSniper]

OK, to start- my apologies for anyone taking the "redneck" label the wrong way, as I have multiple buddies who proudly claim redneck status and DO NOT litter.

That being said- what's the worst you've seen, with regards to trash on a trail? Here in Missouri- when it was legal to run trails in the Mark Twain National Forest, there was a popular spot with a solid, extended single-lanes hill climb. Unfortunately, it was also a popular off-grip campsite for locals. There was so much trash there, it really hacked me off. A few of us from the local Jeep club did a clean-up, hoping it would help keep the area open, but we're talking about people dumping beds and old, full sized old school tv satellites. On one trail, there was even an obviously stolen, and subsequently burned, Trans Am. Kind of amazing it made it as far as it did on that trail to be honest...

Anyway, those experiences really made me become vocal about leaving things better than you found them. It's also lead me to have a couple confrontations with a few hillbillies in the woods.

What can we do better/more of to keep this from happening?

Cheers,

Kühn

While I believe you should drop the use of adjectives all together when describing the people that cause the eyesores you are talking about. I have seen all walks of life littering on a small and grand scale. There is a little two lane road on my way to our small regional airport that for some reason people like to dump trash on. I have seen white, black, brown, male, female, young and old people dumping stuff there. Old beds, TV's, bags of garbage, etc. I do what CC suggested above, take pictures, shame the people when it feels safe to do so, call the authorities. I does burn my ass to see this on the trails also, I feel as though it burns your ass as well, I just do what I can when I can. I pack whatever I have room for. sometimes I will gather garbage into piles so others wanting to pack a load out can do so a little more conveniently. But I have no long term answer other we just need to be better people as a whole.

 

[Steve]

I don't see the need for the sobriquet, as a member of any socioeconomic and cultural background is just as likely to litter.

When I was a young lad, it was very common for people to be driving along and toss trash out of their car window. Highways and byways were awash with trash, and the vast majority thought nothing of it. It wasn't until the '70s when any real effort was made to reduce littering, mostly thought TV advertisements. This was epitomised by Iron Eyes Cody in the famous "Crying Indian" PSA.

Despite the trashing you see today, it is *far* cleaner than 50 years ago.

 

[ohiowrangler]

I'm a member of OHIO4x4 trail riders, we travel to several areas for riding and camping. Most of the trail clean up seems to be from "locals parties". But if we don't do our part we'll lose the access to the trails. Ron

 

[vegasjeepguy]

As a redneck I’ve seen plenty of coastal liberals leaving there trash around...usually after a protest or a march.

 

[ohiowrangler]

It seems we've all determined people without respect, discipline, honor or direction are the thorn in our sides

 

[GeoYota]

Aside from personally picking up trash on the trail ourselves...getting involved with and participating in an Adopt A Trail program can be very enlightening.

A group of friends adopted a trail in the local mountains (Big Bear) as a part of the USFS Adopt A Trail program, and with respect to the OP's observations, EVERYONE seems to litter when recreating in the outdoors.

We spent a whole day developing a "Trail Maintenance Plan" for our adopted trail, and riding with the ranger who administers the OHV program for Big Bear was very educational. We not only developed a management plan for the trail, but he taught us about erosion eradication practices, illegal trail cutting/camping abatement, and how to report criminal activity safely.

His words while we were riding together stick with me to this day (this was back in 2013)...Greg said, "Get 10 feet off the trail, and you really see the worst in people when it comes to dumping and recreating."

My wife and I took this to heart when we traveled from Lake Arrowhead all the way to Baldwin Lake on the forestry road 3N16, that runs through the heart of Holcomb Valley in Big Bear. It was a long day of pick up, and filling up our Trasharoo AND roof rack with everything from pizza boxes to television consoles.

We never actually saw anyone dumping trash on this trip, but the evidence of "human nature" was everywhere. It was inspring to clean up that much trash in one day, but it was also a little depressing to see how we treat "the great outdoors" while recreating.

Picking up and packing out trash is great...getting involved and spreading good practices takes things to another level altogether...no matter whether you slather your neck in sunscreen or you shade your snowflake with a wide brimmed sustainably sourced hat.

 

[ArkansasDon]

As a redneck I’ve seen plenty of coastal liberals leaving there trash around...usually after a protest or a march.

Amen to that.......& as a X-cali seen the same problem of trash left by "so-call nature hikers too" were we deer hunter's picked up after them. The street runs both directions when it come to litering. I live in the hills of Arkansas close to the Missouri border (almost 20yrs) in the same county my fathers roots are from. The problem of liter isn't just from "rednecks or hillbillie's" the problem is from people who really do not appreciate our free public lands & the many uses it offers. Every time my wife I go out overlanding , hunting in different states on public lands we come across this same problem. It's a people problem not a labeling issue. It's the choice of people like me & others who choose to pick up after these ungrateful low life's. This is how we keep our public lands remain open. I look at this types of individuals as dysfunctional unprincipled scum who I feel they do not deserve to use these lands, that they have the need of others to pick up after them. The world is filled with these types.

 

[MOAK]

I don't see the need for the sobriquet, as a member of any socioeconomic and cultural background is just as likely to litter.

When I was a young lad, it was very common for people to be driving along and toss trash out of their car window. Highways and byways were awash with trash, and the vast majority thought nothing of it. It wasn't until the '70s when any real effort was made to reduce littering, mostly thought TV advertisements. This was epitomised by Iron Eyes Cody in the famous "Crying Indian" PSA.

(((Despite the trashing you see today, it is *far* cleaner than 50 years ago.

)))
Isn't that the truth? Wow,, And yes, conservatives, liberals, rednecks? It doesn't matter. A litterbug is just that. It cuts across all walks of life. We've had many a trail closed down here in Pa over the past few decades, not because of visitors to these areas but because of the locals. It is odd, once you get passed the first "gauntlet" of any trail there is no longer any trash because they just couldn't get in any further. We went up to what is now the AOAA recreation area before it was made into a pay for play park., and couldn't get past all the dumping that had been going on since the coal companies left, turned around and came home. The locals have been complaining long and loud that they now have to pay to go "wheelin" in their own back yard, but nary a complaint about how their friends and neighbors had been trashing the region. A small fee gets you unto the property, and it is clean as a whistle now and on its way to restoration.

The real answer to the problem lies in education. Some folks still disagree with littering/trash education and they see it as an infringement on their personal lives. Like all things, it will take time to get everyone on board. In the meantime, we as an organization must do our part to gently educate our family, friends and neighbors, and unfortunately keep picking up after those folks that are not still on board.

 

[soonersfan]

@Steve How in the world are us rednecks supposed to understand you when you're using words like sobriquet?

 

[Steve]

@Steve How in the world are us rednecks supposed to understand you when you're using words like sobriquet?

Sobriquet is something that you put in one of them Hi-Batchees to cook on. ;)

Don't give me any of that "us" thing, either. I've been to my family's funerals in the Appalachians where the pallbearers do a synchronized spitting from chaw upon exiting the church. :)

 

[soonersfan]

Sobriquet is something that you put in one of them Hi-Batchees to cook on. ;)

Don't give me any of that "us" thing, either. I've been to my family's funerals in the Appalachians where the pallbearers do a synchronized spitting from chaw upon exiting the church. :)

Is that their version of a 21 gun salute?

 

[Steve]

Is that their version of a 21 gun salute?

Must be! :)

 

[ArkansasDon]

LOL!, that's some hillbillie blood right there

 

[Road]

Sobriquet is something that you put in one of them Hi-Batchees to cook on. ;)

Don't give me any of that "us" thing, either. I've been to my family's funerals in the Appalachians where the pallbearers do a synchronized spitting from chaw upon exiting the church. :)

I was pallbearer at a funeral back in the 70's in Kentucky for a man who had owned a little woods cabin I lived in for a year or so. He had been a drinker, so we put a Stroh's beer in the casket with him. No spittin' tobacco juice coming out of the church, at least that I remember. Everyone had little tin cans or cups in their trucks and cars, though.

It's still one of my favorite and most interesting parts of the country. Interesting funeral, too; Red Sovine, of Phantom 309 fame and a mess of other country songs, many about truck-driving, was a pallbearer along with me. He evidently had been buddies with old man Daugherty at some point. I have a ton of stories about that cabin, which was across a creek on little wooden footbridge that was tied at one end so it would swing away and not get busted up when there was a "high creek." The cabin had no running water, one electric outlet, and came with a dog named Whiskey that used to belong to the old man.

I was 19, and old man Daugherty's son and I ended up hitting every bar from there up to the river and back after the funeral, celebrating his dad. I ended up in the county calaboose that night after trying to drive back to the cabin, for knocking down forty feet of fence and locust posts over by the dogleg turn near the slaughterhouse with my Chevy Carryall, and resting up against another fence down in a pasture.

The county mounties hadn't seen me driving, but only trying to climb out the tilted up side of my Carryall, so charged me with drunk in public.

"Public?" I cried, "there's no public, just me and a bunch of cows!"

They took me in anyway and about halfway up to the county courthouse in the middle of the night, me in the back of their cruiser, I said "Boys, I got a mouthful of Redman and I got to spit!" There were no window handles of course in the back of the cruiser, and they didn't want me making a mess, so they actually pulled over the side of the interstate and the driver opened my door like he was my chaffeur.

I spit the gathered juice out. He said "You spit it all out now, didn't ya?"

"Yes sir!"

I thought he meant the juice, not the chew. Another few miles up the interstate I said "I gotta spit again . . ."

They told me I'd just have to hold it or swallow it, as they weren't stopping again. They thought I was a riot, actually, and were laughing their butts off at this little drunk 19 year old.

I said "Well then, if you're not gonna stop, I'm gonna have to fill up this little ashtray in the door rest, 'cause I ain't gonna swallow this." I filled that ashtray right up. They cracked up, laughing at me being bold, but stupid.

There's lots more to that story, but seeing your story about the spittin' salute brought that back to me just now. Funny how memories work like that; I haven't thought about that cabin and ol' man Daugherty and that night for years.

So, thank you!


Redneck Road


.

 

[Steve]

@Road Wow, that's crazy! Do your daughters know about that? :)

I wanna see your life's movie some day. Sounds like it would not disappoint.

 

[Road]

@Road Wow, that's crazy! Do your daughters know about that? :)

I wanna see your life's movie some day. Sounds like it would not disappoint.

Ha, yes, my daughter knows every story there is about me, I think. I like to tell them when something brings one to mind in conversation with friends, and when she's there too, she just grins and listens again.

I hope I have enough time in my life to put a lot of the stories into short fiction pieces, bits of this one and that here and there. A very cool older guy from Maryville Tennessee, who I got into a storytelling afternoon with in the Smokies, both of us grinning from ear to ear recounting similar tales of hitchhiking and harmless trouble we'd caused or gotten into around the country stopped me in the middle of a story and asked, in this most wonderful old style east Tennessee accent, "You writ a book yet, Road? 'Cause you oughtta if you ain't!"

He first came by my camp and stood at the edge of the road checking out my setup; rooftop tent on my trailer, big awning out, van, ground tent all hooked up to each other. He rocked on his heels a bit with his hands in his front pockets.

I saw him out there and said "You can come closer."

He said "I cain't tell if you're fixing to hunt deer or gonna try to sell me something!"

He thought the RTT looked like a deer stand and the rest of it all hooked up together was like an old time Medicine show. We hit it off immediately, and it was on.

I asked him if I could come back and record us telling stories sometime and he got all bashful, though I could tell he was considering it. Foxfire type recordings, old country ways, all kinds of stuff. He invited me to come to dinner at his place whenever I get back down that way.

Sorry, @KÜHN, for going off on a tangent here and bogarting your thread. Been a very long couple of days, and I'm relaxing, finally.


.

 

[uss]

For an area that is repeatedly trashed, look at getting a grant to help pay for the dumpster and cleanup activities.

I went on a tour of an area with the BLM once, and they had such an issue with the local poor community dumping trash on the BLM land, that it was cheaper to just pay for a large roll-off dumpster for the community trash.
This saved them the time of having to have their people go pick up the trash, haul it to the office and potentially fill their small dumpster.
It just became a cost of doing business for them.

The locals were very poor, and did not want to pay for local trash pickup, or pay to haul their stuff to the local dump.

For the OG post, buy signs with club money and post them up.
Contact the local land manager to see what it would take to get a small dumpster and scheduled for weekly pickups.
I am sure they don't have the extra funds for it, but if you and your club got a grant for it, you could manage this within your club.
Donate your hours and maybe a few club dollars to also help maintain the area.

There is a club in Colorado that gets a grant to place a porta-potty at the trail head. This cut down on people leaving their white flowers (toilet paper) on the trail.

Thinking outside the box to help the area is sometimes needed.

There is lots of grant money out there available, and we just need to ask for it.

Todd

 

[MOAK]

For an area that is repeatedly trashed, look at getting a grant to help pay for the dumpster and cleanup activities.



Thinking outside the box to help the area is sometimes needed.

There is lots of grant money out there available, and we just need to ask for it.

Todd

Great info and thanks for this post. One of the best reclamation projects I have ever witnessed was the formation of the Anthracite Outdoor Adventure Area, (AOAA) here in central Pennsylvania. The entire project was done with state and federal grant money (ie, tax dollars). The 6,500 acre parcel is large by eastern standards. Unfortunately, the locals whom did not police themselves, were in the process of trashing the region. Fortunately, it has become a very nice reclaimed area for exploring on foot, horseback, ATV, Motorcycle, or full size vehicles.. I'm not much of a weekend warrior, so I've only been there once since it opened 2 or 3 years ago, but I did debate for it in the online forums that were formed to oppose it. One of the arguments I took straight to a county commissioner by telephone. He had stated his opposition based upon his unfounded belief that the AOAA would attract the wrong element of people. Whoa! says I!! I explained to him that my rig probably cost more money that the average home in his county and that while there, we would be opening our wallets to support businesses in the area. I educated him just a bit about who we are as a community. Surprisingly enough, after a short time, the commissioner was very open to my ideas. I don't know if I changed his mind, but I do know that I did plant a seed and sometimes planting a seed is all it takes to bring about change.

As you may percieve, this is a very important topic to me, keeping access and keeping house. As I'm sure some will agree becoming active in this leads to walking a political tightrope. Do we want Bears Ears or the Staircase to remain open for our motorized exploration? Of course we do. However, keeping it open for us, should not go hand in hand with the possibility of privatization or mineral mining developement, which ultimately leads to closures. Who would want to go there anyway after the land has been spoiled. At the same time, the creation of a wilderness area will also cause closures of our beloved two tracks. I find it nearly impossible to find any politician from either side of the isle, that is speaking about preservation and motorized access. Unfortunately, we as a society have become accustomed to seeing this issue, along with many other issues, as either one way or the other, for or against. I submit that middle ground must be achieved in order to preserve and have access. I'm curious how Del Albright thinks about these issues and how the coalition he represents deals with what sometimes appears to be contradictions. Personally I want to have access to public land with motorized vehicles for myself, my grandchildren and generations to come. However, keeping these lands open should not go hand in hand with politicians that are seeking to privatize these lands. In the political climate that exists today, the two do go hand in hand, and I think that is a dangerous course to follow.