Problems in Europe with Vehicle on Carnet

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We shipped a Land Rover to Europe for a overlanding filming expedition project. Making videos for ad-clicks and products sales adventures and fun. We were told we had to get a Carnet because the vehicle was "EURO 3" and not allowed temporary import or normal customs entry. And it would be stopped at each border for the same.

After the Carnet was approved for export byCustoms. There were long booking and crazy supply chain delays. This was in 2022. We literally could not get a container to Eastern Europe. The Vehicle sat in export storage warehouse collecting storage and eventually took 5 months to arrive to Eastern Europe. It was supposed to take 1 month. Shipping was over $10,000, for 1 Rover with the camping and filming equipment and props and spare parts and other things.

When it arrived, we were accused of not properly shipping by Customs at destination, because it was mixed in with other things, and not in a dedicated ocean shipping container or on a RORO. It is not welcome. And we must take it out and open it elsewhere. As we were waiting for our container to arrive overseas our Visas expired. We explained the situation and were told to cross the border, stay in a Hotel 3 days, and cross back with the Visa stamp no problem.

On the way back Customs stopped us at the border. They did not care to hear our explanations or who we spoke to because crossing and coming back is illegal. According to them, we were never told this, and even if we were they will not approve it unless we were diplomats. They said we should have been stopped at exit Customs but since we were not. Someone had made a mistake and now we must wait outside the country 180 days. At this point we are waiting 180 days and have lost 4,000 EUR in Customs warehouse storage fees because of that. When trying to get the rig and items out , they said we had to come back and sign papers to get it ourselves. I could not find a transport to pick it up because they said they could not find a container or trailer that was authorized for cross border. We want to go in but but we can't because we were told to stay out 6 months. And I personally - cannot risk a ban there. And of course , we are paying the warehouse storage fees. Now it's been 11 months and we are not even started!

The Carnet is expiring soon and we are told we need a Carnet extension, which we have no choice to get, of course., since we are so far into this project. But that we are only allowed to stay in one country. On top of that I am charged a small fortune for an extension on a Carnnet that I never used - because it was never opened at destination in the first place. We cannot do a Land Rover Expedition in 1 country. Which brings me to my question:

Does anyone know if we can just cross the borders of Turkey, The Balkans and the EU with the Carnet Extension only and not be confined to 1 country as they say. Perhaps a map of where they will not check it. OR consider it a tourist vehicle and give us a temporary tag or tourist permit.



If anyone knows how to help, please feel free to chime in. Thank you.
 
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Robert OB 33/48

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We shipped a Land Rover to Europe for a overlanding filming expedition project. Making videos for ad-clicks and products sales adventures and fun. We were told we had to get a Carnet because the vehicle was "EURO 3" and not allowed temporary import or normal customs entry. And it would be stopped at each border for the same.

After the Carnet was approved for export byCustoms. There were long booking and crazy supply chain delays. This was in 2022. We literally could not get a container to Eastern Europe. The Vehicle sat in export storage warehouse collecting storage and eventually took 5 months to arrive to Eastern Europe. It was supposed to take 1 month. Shipping was over $10,000, for 1 Rover with the camping and filming equipment and props and spare parts and other things.

When it arrived, we were accused of not properly shipping by Customs at destination, because it was mixed in with other things, and not in a dedicated ocean shipping container or on a RORO. It is not welcome. And we must take it out and open it elsewhere. As we were waiting for our container to arrive overseas our Visas expired. We explained the situation and were told to cross the border, stay in a Hotel 3 days, and cross back with the Visa stamp no problem.

On the way back Customs stopped us at the border. They did not care to hear our explanations or who we spoke to because crossing and coming back is illegal. According to them, we were never told this, and even if we were they will not approve it unless we were diplomats. They said we should have been stopped at exit Customs but since we were not. Someone had made a mistake and now we must wait outside the country 180 days. At this point we are waiting 180 days and have lost 4,000 EUR in Customs warehouse storage fees because of that. When trying to get the rig and items out , they said we had to come back and sign papers to get it ourselves. I could not find a transport to pick it up because they said they could not find a container or trailer that was authorized for cross border. We want to go in but but we can't because we were told to stay out 6 months. And I personally - cannot risk a ban there. And of course , we are paying the warehouse storage fees. Now it's been 11 months and we are not even started!

The Carnet is expiring soon and we are told we need a Carnet extension, which we have no choice to get, of course., since we are so far into this project. But that we are only allowed to stay in one country. On top of that I am charged a small fortune for an extension on a Carnnet that I never used - because it was never opened at destination in the first place. We cannot do a Land Rover Expedition in 1 country. Which brings me to my question:

Does anyone know if we can just cross the borders of Turkey, The Balkans and the EU with the Carnet Extension only and not be confined to 1 country as they say. Perhaps a map of where they will not check it. OR consider it a tourist vehicle and give us a temporary tag or tourist permit.


If anyone knows how to help, please feel free to chime in. Thank you.
Hello Dave,

I do live in the Netherlands.
So there are some questions I like to ask.
Were is the Rover now?
What are your plans except going to Turkye?

PM me if you like. Maybe I can help. As I live here and can travel freely here in Europe maybe I can do some assistant work here for you.
Even if possible to pick the car up and take it to my place untill all things are settled.
It should be safe here.

Greetings from Robert
 
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Wranglervirus

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We shipped a Land Rover to Europe for a overlanding filming expedition project. Making videos for ad-clicks and products sales adventures and fun. We were told we had to get a Carnet because the vehicle was "EURO 3" and not allowed temporary import or normal customs entry. And it would be stopped at each border for the same.

After the Carnet was approved for export byCustoms. There were long booking and crazy supply chain delays. This was in 2022. We literally could not get a container to Eastern Europe. The Vehicle sat in export storage warehouse collecting storage and eventually took 5 months to arrive to Eastern Europe. It was supposed to take 1 month. Shipping was over $10,000, for 1 Rover with the camping and filming equipment and props and spare parts and other things.

When it arrived, we were accused of not properly shipping by Customs at destination, because it was mixed in with other things, and not in a dedicated ocean shipping container or on a RORO. It is not welcome. And we must take it out and open it elsewhere. As we were waiting for our container to arrive overseas our Visas expired. We explained the situation and were told to cross the border, stay in a Hotel 3 days, and cross back with the Visa stamp no problem.

On the way back Customs stopped us at the border. They did not care to hear our explanations or who we spoke to because crossing and coming back is illegal. According to them, we were never told this, and even if we were they will not approve it unless we were diplomats. They said we should have been stopped at exit Customs but since we were not. Someone had made a mistake and now we must wait outside the country 180 days. At this point we are waiting 180 days and have lost 4,000 EUR in Customs warehouse storage fees because of that. When trying to get the rig and items out , they said we had to come back and sign papers to get it ourselves. I could not find a transport to pick it up because they said they could not find a container or trailer that was authorized for cross border. We want to go in but but we can't because we were told to stay out 6 months. And I personally - cannot risk a ban there. And of course , we are paying the warehouse storage fees. Now it's been 11 months and we are not even started!

The Carnet is expiring soon and we are told we need a Carnet extension, which we have no choice to get, of course., since we are so far into this project. But that we are only allowed to stay in one country. On top of that I am charged a small fortune for an extension on a Carnnet that I never used - because it was never opened at destination in the first place. We cannot do a Land Rover Expedition in 1 country. Which brings me to my question:

Does anyone know if we can just cross the borders of Turkey, The Balkans and the EU with the Carnet Extension only and not be confined to 1 country as they say. Perhaps a map of where they will not check it. OR consider it a tourist vehicle and give us a temporary tag or tourist permit.



If anyone knows how to help, please feel free to chime in. Thank you.
Would be helpful to know what country you are doing import? If you ship to any EU country than should be ok to drive with local insurance and papers; but maybe better to use proper custom brokerage and or shipping companies like Delamode Baltics or ACE logistics they are operating world wide
 

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I'm still on the road right now but happy to help with some thoughts on this:

What kind of Carnet is it? Is it a Carnet de Passage? Is it an ATA Carnet?

For traveling in the EU, Turkey, Balkans, to my knowledge no Carnet de Passage is required for the vehicle not registered here.

However, as I have heard, it happens from time to time that a security deposit is required, the repayment of which is also questionable or may take time. It depends on the country of import.

Perhaps we are talking about an ATA Carnet for importing goods?


In order to understand what exactly happened here and who could help from the official side (CdPs are issued by the FIA automobile clubs, for example, and they can help with the extension, in Germany, for example, the ADAC. ATA Carnets, on the other hand, are handled by chambers of commerce) we would have to know what kind of document it is, to which country the vehicle was imported and where the vehicle is now.

Which agent is handling the import in the EU and who is the forwarder? Surely he must know that?

Ricardo Gomes from Overlander Shipping in Hamburg, Germany, has a lot of experience with shipments from and to Europe and knows customs and import procedures very well. He can certainly give tips as well. The company can be found as POI on the OB Map in Hamburg, Germany. I can also put you in contact if needed. Please let me know. Happy to help.
 

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Firstly where is the Land Rover originally registered and where is it shipping from.

As mentioned already for the likes of Turkey and Balkans I have not heard of a carnet being required, only a temporary import document which you get at the border.

Once we have some further details we can look in depth further.

I have a friend who ships vehicles worldwide so once I have all the information and will message him for advice and maybe assistance to help you get things resolved.
 
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Hello all,

ATA Carnet.

It is in a non-EU country in Eastern Europe/Balkans I'd rather not say where just yet. The goal is to get it out as soon as I get back. The plan is to drive from the Caspian sea area, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, through Turkey and up and around through the Balkans, up through Estonia, and export the vehicle back to the USA on a RORO in Port Hamburg Germany.

The only reason I choose the Carnet is because I was informed a Carnet was the only option; Mandatory for any vehicle from USA to anywhere in Europe. No regular import with full Customs Duty is allowed on USA vehicles; No temporary import under bond allowed for USA vehicles. And no tourist import permit for USA vehicles.

If there is a way to do this without a Carnet... with only a temporary import permit issued at each Customs border crossiing that would be ideal. We could just get temporary import permits for each country visited and not use the Carnet at all. I hope that is possible.
 
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We have already paid the truckers, warehouses, Vehicle Forwarder, Customs Brokers, Storage warehouse etc. For everyone offering to help, I really appreciate it. But right now I simply want to take possession of the vehicle and drive it, and not be physically confined to 1 country. Which brings me back to my original question:


"Does anyone know if we can just cross the borders of Turkey, The Balkans and the EU with the Carnet Extension only and not be confined to 1 country as they say. Perhaps a map of where they will not check it. OR consider it a tourist vehicle and give us a temporary tag or tourist permit."
 

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I have never needed a carnet to cross in to Turkey just the vehicle documents, they call it car passport ie ownership paperwork (U.K. it’s the V5 Document) and then pay for insurance at the border.
The vehicle details are added into the drivers passport so if you try to leave without the vehicle they can stop you.
I have Overlanding friends in Turkey who I can put you in contact with who are always happy to help fellow overlanders
 

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I have never needed a carnet to cross in to Turkey just the vehicle documents, they call it car passport ie ownership paperwork (U.K. it’s the V5 Document) and then pay for insurance at the border.
The vehicle details are added into the drivers passport so if you try to leave without the vehicle they can stop you.
I have Overlanding friends in Turkey who I can put you in contact with who are always happy to help fellow overlanders

Yes please. If you or anyone else knows anyone that can tell me how to get a temporary import permit for tourism into each country please let me know. This will help me plan a new route since my original plans have now been ruined.



The Carnet company issued me a new (replacement) Carnet. It arrived today. It is completely restricted to 1 country. All other spaces say "VOID". There is no explanation why I am now restricted to 1 country. The only regulations I can find pertaining to ATA Carnets are in US Law under US Customs regulation 19 CFR 114. I can't find anything anywhere else that discusses this.

Surely, there must be some kind of guidelines or rules since the Carnet is based on an international "convention" agreement. Basically, a form of a treaty, A set of rules on which all participating countries agree to adhere. How can a Carnet country refuse to open a Carnet because it was not shipped in a RORO or completely dedicated container? I had the Carnet Vehicle mixed with other things not listed on the Carnet document because I'm not going to pay double for the same damn destination. And also - you can't put "consumables" on a Carnet, Not only that, but with the fees, the cost for those consumables are higher than the Customs duty.


Therefore it makes financial sense to separate the two. Container prices were at world record highs and I'm supposed to pay double? Or put it on a RORO to Greece or Hamburg, Germany? The trucking would be over 10,000 EUR for that. I cannot find any supporting regulations that says you must ship a Carnet in a dedicated container or RORO only or Customs will deny it.

Is it even possible just to ditch the Carnet completely an get some kind of temporary 90 day tourist Visa in each country?
 

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@Overland Anatolia #OB15205 are your guys.
I’ve messaged Emre on Facebook and will come back to you when I can. You can also try messaging them here on the forums



All the countries you listed I have had no issues getting in with the “car passport” as previously mentioned and that is with a Cyprus registered then U.K. registered vehicle. I have never ever needed a carnet.
The only country in Eastern Europe I am aware of problems I beleive is Macedonia but this is not something I have experience of.

Hopefully others have more info to add
 
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Not a problem in Macedonia either, i passed trough there, going from Romania on the way to Albania with a car registered in Germany at the time.
Even the the green insurance thing was valid there as well.
I think would be difficult to offer any help if we don't know the country you talk about.
 
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To enter countries by vehicle on a TIP you do not need an agent or fixer at the borders. You simply drive to the border and follow the instructions, fill out the forms the officials give you etc. Don't worry, you will manage that easily.

Always remember not to use the green lane if there is such a thing, because you have to bring your vehicle in by TIP. Many travelers forget this, e.g. travelers with dogs. Depending on the situation, the pet has to be declared to customs without being asked, i.e. red lane.

Regarding your ATA Carnet, I strongly advise you to follow the exact rules (now that you have the ATA Carnet, even if you don't need it). Never mess around with the customs and follow the customs rules exactly. Violations can have dramatic consequences and there is no discretion. If I were in the situation, I would contact the appropriate chamber of commerce and/or use a professional customs agent and resolve the matter as quickly as possible through official channels. Who was the forwarder or agent at the time of shipment, surely he must have taken care of the paperwork?

Furthermore, please be aware that you need 3rd partd liability insurance for the rig in many countries. Often you can get it at the borders. The already earlier mentioned green card insurance (which is not green anymore but white), could also be arranged by a broker, for example Tourinsure in Hamburg, Germany offers this service for incoming vehicles. I have made very good experiences with their servive and you will find them on the OB map.

Please let us known in case you need any other help on the way.

Good luck and have a good trip!
 
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Might be too late but for future reference, IF you want to get to a country in Europe, but not in the EU, best is to bring your vehicle to EU (paperwork is very easy, well organised). EU has all kinds of diplomatic and customs agreements with all the countries in its orbit, so the papers you get will be OK outside EU as well. Except local insurance, the only issue might be if they require a VISA. It will save you money and time.
So for example I know a couple they imported the vehicle from US in EU via Rotterdam, they spent 6 months inside EU ( the maximum period ) - went to Morocco - no issue - came back for another 6 months.
In your case you ship to Hamburg, and a 2 day drive to Turkey or wherever with minimum extra cost, not extra storage fees and high levels of anxiety and craziness.. due to incompetent shipping agents.
 

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@BuyersRemorse One week passed... could you sort things out in the meantime and is the problem solved? Or do you still need help?
 

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@BuyersRemorse One week passed... could you sort things out in the meantime and is the problem solved? Or do you still need help?
Hi thank you for following up and sorry for not responding. I'm in America right now. Some things came up and I had to delay going back. Customs is holding the vehicle. There is an offical looking notice taped to it. It is some kind of refusal and for export only notice. In the meantime I am paying storage fees until I go back.

I feel it's ridiculous I must be there in person with an "original signature" to release it. I thought the point of using a Customs Broker is they act as attorney's on your behlaf. But both the local Customs Broker and separate attorney confirmed I must be there to take it out OR hire a carrier from an adjoining country. But when I tried to do that it was impossible. Just getting someone to return a phone call or email is difficult.


So I must go back and take delivery in person. I will try to get an appointment with the top official there accompanied by a local attorney and work things out in person.

I am there benefiting thier country. Yet they have ruined my plans and cost me thousands of EUR for nothing. What a nightmare. Hopefully the Rover isn't parked at a Customs officers house when I return. Sorry for my tone here. I am just upset.
 

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It seems very odd you even need a carnet for Europe.

I've been doing some research for my own international driving adventure. One of the first countries we intend to go to does require a Carnet.
It may come down to the Carnet issuer but from the correspondence that I have so far their only interest is that after I have visited the Carnet country, the issuer in my own country, only needs notification that the vehicle has left that country and then they will cancel the Carnet and refund the bond. I don't need to bring the vehicle back home.

That being said it's probably because you went as a business, enter the next country for tourism.

Europe may be different as there are no real internal borders, but leaving to go to the Balkans or the UK would probably be sufficient.
 
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