Overlanding with "stock" 4X4

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

This is funny but kinda true. If you watch a lot of TV and movies, and that's how you want to shoot, you will be emptying your AK47 into all the cars, walls and industrial equipment while everyone is hiding behind them. Me? If there's only 2 guns allowed in thatfight, and my choices are that I get to spray indiscriminately with the AK or think a moment and take a good shot with the 22LR, I'll take that 22LR and land one through an ear while the guy with the AK reloads. Or bird dog him.

Translating that back to 4x4...I ride in 2wd at almost all times. I really only ever "shift" (it's a knob now, unfortunately) into 4wd when I know there will be ice on the roads, or other slippery, tricky conditions. Then I shift out.

If i take the lower bumper chin strap off this truck, i bet i can get most of where i want to go with it in 2wd and the highway Geolandars currently on it. Add the stock 4x4, my G80 Eaton auto blocker rear (stock) and i bet i get 80 to 90% where i want to go, or even more

I'm not picking on you, but your comments left a spot for me to put in my 2 cents on a couple of issues that keep coming up in several of the threads. Gun's and 2 wheel drive versus 4 wheel dive versus modified 4x4's.

From what you say here I think you should sell your 4x4 and buy a good 2x4 along with a good 22 rifle if your sold on that being all you need.

I only own one semi auto rifle myself and it's a 10/22. I never use the 10/22 for hunting because I like knowing that if I have a single shot or bolt action I will probable only get one shot. I know I better make a good shot or go home empty handed. I also believe in giving my game a fighting chance that I might miss and he will live. It's called sportsmanship, not that all hunters have that creed.

That dosent mean I cant do the same thing with a semi auto of any caliber. I know a lot of people who go into the field with an AK or AR for their hunting choice for deer and Antelope, wild pigs and other medium size animals.. They dont spray their bullets when they hunt they just have a better chance of getting their game with a second or third quick shot availability. They dont hunt with 30 round magazines either, that mag is for are for self defense and target practice for the most of us who own them. Most states have some kind of limit as to how many rounds of ammo can be in a gun for hunting purposes.

I have never seen a hunter use his weapon as if there were 50 men charging over the hill with the intent of killing him. That's all movie hype and gives shooters a bad name. In addition shooters have different guns for different shooting. 22's small game, 222 to 270's for medium size game, 30 cal to 45-90's for big game like bear, moose and elk. There is a variety of other calibers including Magnums for either long distance shooting, speed or kill power in the larger most potent calibers. Military snipers have recorded kills at a mile or more with their weapons. Finally we have the variety of shot gun gauges and ammo variety for anything from self defense to small game and bigger gauges for ducks and goose or slugs for big animals.

I wouldn't laugh at anything @Boostpower said. It's not funny and is true, not kinda true. How do I know, I know because I am a hunter and target shooter. I am also the owner of two 4x4's and an all wheel drive that just dosent quite make it for some of my intended off road uses.

Now apply what I just said about gun variety to off road vehicles. There is at least four categories of off road vehicles I am familiar with. I dont knock any of them because they each do different strokes for different folks.

There is the 2 wheel drive (hopefully with some sort of locking diff.) It does a great job for many off road situations and like it or not it has it's limitations. I've been stuck in sand and mud and walked out more than my share of times when using a 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Then we have the stock 4x4 that can go a little deeper into off roading with a little more confidence in where they can go. Rigs for people not necessarily interested in a real challenge to their ability, but capable of some modest challenges for the terrain and conditions that a 2 wheel drive can not do "as easily." These rigs will more than likely see a lot of un-maintained road situations and miles of back country travel that many OB members enjoy.

Thirdly we have what most of the OB members in the US and Canada have which is a slightly modified 4x4 with some lift, a bigger than stock tire, that's a little more aggressive and even a lift of 2"- 6" with 31" to 38" tires is not uncommon. Lower gear changes to compensate for the larger tires and some sort of locking devise in the rear axle is likely. These people have been through the first categories most likely and know where they go the mods are needed from their experience. These rigs can take on a pretty fair challenge out of necessity and not so much deliberately, but what they find on the sketchy trails. Watch
Finally we have the specialty rigs that are more for competition rock crawling, mud bogging, on up to the big wheel monster truck arena events. They are highly modified for the occasion and very capable of almost anything. Very expensive and usually not a rig just off the show room floor.

So what this all amounts to is what ya gonna do with your rig. You may share some of the same experiences like camping, fishing , travel on or off roads to get to your destinations and everyone having fun the way they choose and according to their ability. It's your thing so go and do it the way that pleases you and dont worry about what other people have or what they think about your rig or equipment.
That's life and that's all folks.

All comments are welcome and your opinion is as good as mine anytime.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I'm not picking on you, but your comments left a spot for me to put in my 2 cents on a couple of issues that keep coming up in several of the threads. Gun's and 2 wheel drive versus 4 wheel dive versus modified 4x4's.

From what you say here I think you should sell your 4x4 and buy a good 2x4 along with a good 22 rifle if your sold on that being all you need.

I only own one semi auto rifle myself and it's a 10/22. I never use the 10/22 for hunting because I like knowing that if I have a single shot or bolt action I will probable only get one shot. I know I better make a good shot or go home empty handed. I also believe in giving my game a fighting chance that I might miss and he will live. It's called sportsmanship, not that all hunters have that creed.

That dosent mean I cant do the same thing with a semi auto of any caliber. I know a lot of people who go into the field with an AK or AR for their hunting choice for deer and Antelope, wild pigs and other medium size animals.. They dont spray their bullets when they hunt they just have a better chance of getting their game with a second or third quick shot availability. They dont hunt with 30 round magazines either, that mag is for are for self defense and target practice for the most of us who own them. Most states have some kind of limit as to how many rounds of ammo can be in a gun for hunting purposes.

I have never seen a hunter use his weapon as if there were 50 men charging over the hill with the intent of killing him. That's all movie hype and gives shooters a bad name. In addition shooters have different guns for different shooting. 22's small game, 222 to 270's for medium size game, 30 cal to 45-90's for big game like bear, moose and elk. There is a variety of other calibers including Magnums for either long distance shooting, speed or kill power in the larger most potent calibers. Military snipers have recorded kills at a mile or more with their weapons. Finally we have the variety of shot gun gauges and ammo variety for anything from self defense to small game and bigger gauges for ducks and goose or slugs for big animals.

I wouldn't laugh at anything @Boostpower said. It's not funny and is true, not kinda true. How do I know, I know because I am a hunter and target shooter. I am also the owner of two 4x4's and an all wheel drive that just dosent quite make it for some of my intended off road uses.

Now apply what I just said about gun variety to off road vehicles. There is at least four categories of off road vehicles I am familiar with. I dont knock any of them because they each do different strokes for different folks.

There is the 2 wheel drive (hopefully with some sort of locking diff.) It does a great job for many off road situations and like it or not it has it's limitations. I've been stuck in sand and mud and walked out more than my share of times when using a 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Then we have the stock 4x4 that can go a little deeper into off roading with a little more confidence in where they can go. Rigs for people not necessarily interested in a real challenge to their ability, but capable of some modest challenges for the terrain and conditions that a 2 wheel drive can not do "as easily." These rigs will more than likely see a lot of un-maintained road situations and miles of back country travel that many OB members enjoy.

Thirdly we have what most of the OB members in the US and Canada have which is a slightly modified 4x4 with some lift, a bigger than stock tire, that's a little more aggressive and even a lift of 2"- 6" with 31" to 38" tires is not uncommon. Lower gear changes to compensate for the larger tires and some sort of locking devise in the rear axle is likely. These people have been through the first categories most likely and know where they go the mods are needed from their experience. These rigs can take on a pretty fair challenge out of necessity and not so much deliberately, but what they find on the sketchy trails. Watch
Finally we have the specialty rigs that are more for competition rock crawling, mud bogging, on up to the big wheel monster truck arena events. They are highly modified for the occasion and very capable of almost anything. Very expensive and usually not a rig just off the show room floor.

So what this all amounts to is what ya gonna do with your rig. You may share some of the same experiences like camping, fishing , travel on or off roads to get to your destinations and everyone having fun the way they choose and according to their ability. It's your thing so go and do it the way that pleases you and dont worry about what other people have or what they think about your rig or equipment.
That's life and that's all folks.

All comments are welcome and your opinion is as good as mine anytime.

I appreciate that you are not picking on me. And I appreciate the lesson in all the different firearms and thier various uses and the hunting explanation. Along with the differences between 2wd, 4wd, and modded 4wd. I appreciate that others could benefit from it but it was unnecessary for me

I first learned to shoot from my vietnam vet father back in 1973. First started hunting in the 80's. And had my own personal 4x4 Chevy truck in the 1990's. So although I am no expert rock crawler, and i just dont hunt terribly often, I get everything you are saying. I love camping and fishing and hiking. And driving road trips.

That you think just because I CAN get to 80% of where I want without 4x4 means that I somehow should do without it is absurd on the face of it. Same for your idea I should trade my higher caliber rifles for a 22. True, we want a heavier duty rifle for larger game. My point was that if all I had was the 22, I could still make it work if I had to. If all I had was 4x2, I could still make due if I had to.

My whole point was merely that there are a lot of people out there with tools that they either dont need or dont know how to use. I attempted to make a somewhat comical segue by comparing the having of powerful equipment vs the knowing what to do with it, or even with lesser equipment that you could still make work very well.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Kinda the point of this thread...can you do without the fancy expensive and still do ok

 

[Smileyshaun]

Let’s settle this , if you have a stock 4x4 you can go off-road but don’t you dare post about it online without first buying and this must include the whole list or your nothing more than a nub
A Rtt
Awning
Slide out kitchen
Maxttax ( don’t even think about a off brand you Blasphemer)
Patches
Icon or fox suspension
Some sort of titanium cookware
BFg ko2 because there’s obviously no other tire out there
A solar setup because god forbid you get away from electronics in nature

And how dare you think about going off-road without documenting driving over that 6” branch..... I mean tree and the 1/2 hour discussion it took with your ham radio or gmsrps4xbox radio to tell the rest of your group with street tires how you battled a grizzly to get the rights to continue down the trail ...... gravel road and not upset Bigfoot and his Escalade.......... OMG ITS OVERLANDING AKA CAR CAMPING QUIT MAKING IT SOME EPIC 5 month adventure when it’s just a weekend retreat .

 

[Trail_pilot]

^^^ This

 

[TerryD]

@Relic came out with us Sunday in his 2wd crew cab GMC and really got to see what it's capable of.

4wd is nice, but not always a must. I spent all day in 2wd also, including sliding sideways off the trail into the brush because of a nice muddy coating on a very off-camber section that there was an easy bypass around.

Don't go alone.

Be willing to turn around when you get out of your comfort zone.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Let’s settle this , if you have a stock 4x4 you can go off-road but don’t you dare post about it online without first buying and this must include the whole list or your nothing more than a nub
A Rtt
Awning
Slide out kitchen
Maxttax ( don’t even think about a off brand you Blasphemer)
Patches
Icon or fox suspension
Some sort of titanium cookware
BFg ko2 because there’s obviously no other tire out there
A solar setup because god forbid you get away from electronics in nature

And how dare you think about going off-road without documenting driving over that 6” branch..... I mean tree and the 1/2 hour discussion it took with your ham radio or gmsrps4xbox radio to tell the rest of your group with street tires how you battled a grizzly to get the rights to continue down the trail ...... gravel road and not upset Bigfoot and his Escalade.......... OMG ITS OVERLANDING AKA CAR CAMPING QUIT MAKING IT SOME EPIC 5 month adventure when it’s just a weekend retreat .

I know, right? Good post. To those who really can go out there for even 1 month straight, my hats off to you. I would LOVE to be able to do that. That and get paid to play with my Beagle all day.

-RTT for me is sleeping in a regular tent or under my truck cap.
-Awning is my blue tarp, tied between my stock roof rack (when I had a k5) and a tree
-Slide out kitchen = my coleman 2 burner sitting on my tailgate
-Maxtrax has always been extra floor mats of the very industrial type and or some branches.
-Patches? I have a Hilton's Tent City sticker on my rear window. Does that count?
-Suspensions for me have always been stock, or Z71, or a mild IRO springs with Pro Comp shocks in the case of my 99 Grand Cherokee.
-Titanium cookware. Very light for sure. I do have some lightweight cookware but it's not titanium. Also, I have some Lodge cast iron pans that could be used in subduing some pretty good sized prey
-I admit I have never driven on BF Goodrich AT KO's but I would like to try them. My trucks and SUV's have been mainly on Michelins and Goodyear Wranglers (but never duratracs yet. I'd like to try those too)
-I havent used solar panels yet but want to try them too. I do not bother with my electronics when camping but now I'm in a position at work where I have to be available. Such is life. I dont get to play unless I work for it.

I am not putting down any of that equipment. Nor anyone who uses it. I can see a lot of it being used by forest rangers or highway patrol in remote areas, military, etc. And the ingenuity behind it as fantastic. Buy it if you can and use it!

I just thought this post was about using "stock" 4x4, which made me think about doing more with less, which can also be fun

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Sorry to take up so much space here but one of the main reasons I even lifted my 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee was because it wasn't high enough to ride over snow that my k5 could plow through or over effortlessly. But I admit, I sure like the look of it lifted

 

[Seanm26]

The issue I am having is payload capacity. Granted it is stock, 23 year old suspension. I also haven't been very nice by hanging a 250+ lb dirtbike off the back with a hitch carrier. The shocks ride like they are filled with water and the sag is something fierce with any weight.

I bet with OEM replacement hardware it would be amazing. But for the same price as OEM stuff I can get a 1.5" lift.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I appreciate that you are not picking on me. And I appreciate the lesson in all the different firearms and thier various uses and the hunting explanation. Along with the differences between 2wd, 4wd, and modded 4wd. I appreciate that others could benefit from it but it was unnecessary for me

I first learned to shoot from my vietnam vet father back in 1973. First started hunting in the 80's. And had my own personal 4x4 Chevy truck in the 1990's. So although I am no expert rock crawler, and i just dont hunt terribly often, I get everything you are saying. I love camping and fishing and hiking. And driving road trips.

That you think just because I CAN get to 80% of where I want without 4x4 means that I somehow should do without it is absurd on the face of it. Same for your idea I should trade my higher caliber rifles for a 22. True, we want a heavier duty rifle for larger game. My point was that if all I had was the 22, I could still make it work if I had to. If all I had was 4x2, I could still make due if I had to.

My whole point was merely that there are a lot of people out there with tools that they either dont need or dont know how to use. I attempted to make a somewhat comical segue by comparing the having of powerful equipment vs the knowing what to do with it, or even with lesser equipment that you could still make work very well.

Point made Andrew and I don't think you should down grade your vehicle or use only your 22. Frankly I agree that if all I had was a 22 I could make do somehow. As far as my 4x4, I am in high 4 wheel drive most of the time because it is full time 4x4 Land Rover Discovery 2. Mostly because getting from one place to the other I am on a highway. But with the LRD2 it is hardly ever necessary to go into low range due to the select drive transmission and the fact that I just don't put it in a position where I need the low range. At least I know that if I need it, it is there. Thanks for clarifying your position and letting me know you are familiar with firearms. Have a good un !

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Well in my attemp to be tongue in cheek in my post you quoted and responded to, I probably didnt come across as clever as i intended.

I didn't know the LR2 was an all-time 4 wheel drive. How is it on fuel?

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Well in my attempt to be tongue in cheek in my post you quoted and responded to, I probably didn't come across as clever as i intended.

I didn't know the LR2 was an all-time 4 wheel drive. How is it on fuel?

Not bad, I get about 16 mpg empty with the 4.0 v8 engine at 65 mph, since I just put on a larger tire It should be a little better since I didn't change to a lower gear ratio.
Stock tires are 29.5" tall and my new tires are 31.7" tall. I added 2 " spring spacers to give it a total lift height of 3" that I feel I need for back road ground clearance. It has a nice stance and most people would never know it it is not stock. The drive train on a Discovery is the same a defender except with a luxury ride. Check out this video.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Much much nicer than my '99 WJ. I did not know Land Rover used a Buick engine block for that. Sweet ride! Looks to be in very good shape.

I put 2 inches of coil spring lift, shocks, anti-swaybar links, coil spring isolators my WJ and added taller wheels. So that's sitting 3 inches above stock as well. It's one of those, like yours, where someone will look at it and say " this looks stock, but it doesnt. What did you do to it?" Unless they drive up in a stock 99 wj, they cant tell

 

[Smileyshaun]

I get 100 mpg if Just coast down hills

 

[Billiebob]

My original plan for my Jeep was to build it up to get to camp sites in the woods. Then the build went more rock crawler with big lift, axles, tires, etc. but now I have a kid and I am working on making it more streetable and comfortable for the wife and I to take it out camping again LOL.

Exactly where I have gone too altho as I am retired it took me 30 years longer.

All my other mods more lift, bigger tires, more power, chipped away at every overlanding attribute. It made my truck less comfortable, got fewer mpg, increased unsprung weight, created more drag..... I took out the lift, went back to stock springs. Then last summer I bought skinny pizza cutters, 31 x 7.50 R15s and gained 5mpg. We never track the loss of mpg but when you gain 5mpg you go "holy cow wow" !!!

That added 95 miles to my range, no need to carry jerry cans. Maybe the number one overlander goal, go farther with less. Concentrate on the goal, not the task. If the goal is to climb a waterfall you don't want a comfortable 4x4 with a 500 mile range. But if you are an overlander you don't need to climb a waterfall.

 

[Smileyshaun]

What’s this mpg you speak of ?? I thought the point of a 4x4 is smiles per gallon not miles per gallon . If I wanted mpg I would buy a car , what gets good mpg in 4 low ?

 

[Billiebob]

17mpg with 33/10.50R15s if I tried hard
22mpg with 7.50R16s without trying

With a trailer, 14mpg maintaining 60mph and passing on every mountain 3 lane
18mpg if I stayed under 55mph and never pulled out to pass

I was surprised, love these new tires


And they perform, handle better, ride smoother than any LTs I've had.

 

[Smileyshaun]

But why own a wrangler if mpg is a concern ? Not exactly the most comfortable ride out there especially towing a trailer .

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Much much nicer than my '99 WJ. I did not know Land Rover used a Buick engine block for that. Sweet ride! Looks to be in very good shape.

I put 2 inches of coil spring lift, shocks, anti-swaybar links, coil spring isolators my WJ and added taller wheels. So that's sitting 3 inches above stock as well. It's one of those, like yours, where someone will look at it and say " this looks stock, but it doesnt. What did you do to it?" Unless they drive up in a stock 99 wj, they cant tell

I hope you didn't thing the video was about me or my rig. My Landy is a 2000 year model. I am somewhat close in looks to the video rig but not finished with a few things yet. I like my front bumper better than his. I do agree with what he has done to his rig and like you said unless a stock rig is setting next to me they wouldn't know it from stock. I didn't need new shocks and Luck8 didn't recommend changing them for their 2" spacer lift. My shocks are okay but I think I will change them just to make sure I dont break one. I will post a picture of my rig that was taken before the tire change, lift, and bumper addition. I need to take new pictures for an update.

I like WJ's myself and they seem easier to work on and modify. Do you have the inline 4.0 six cyl.

 

[Trail_pilot]

Exactly where I have gone too altho as I am retired it took me 30 years longer.

All my other mods more lift, bigger tires, more power, chipped away at every overlanding attribute. It made my truck less comfortable, got fewer mpg, increased unsprung weight, created more drag..... I took out the lift, went back to stock springs. Then last summer I bought skinny pizza cutters, 31 x 7.50 R15s and gained 5mpg. We never track the loss of mpg but when you gain 5mpg you go "holy cow wow" !!!

That added 95 miles to my range, no need to carry jerry cans. Maybe the number one overlander goal, go farther with less. Concentrate on the goal, not the task. If the goal is to climb a waterfall you don't want a comfortable 4x4 with a 500 mile range. But if you are an overlander you don't need to climb a waterfall.

My Jeep has gotten a little out build to go back to stock, and a little increase in MPG would be great because I currently get about 8... I just finished rebuilding the suspension to make it more comfortable and plan on adding some heat/sound deadening to make things inside just a little bit nicer. The down side to the new suspension is that there is no room for the old exhaust I need to build one from scratch.... still working on that.
I do still use mine fore heavy trail rides and rock crawling with the guys about 5 weekends a year so it still checks all the boxes for my needs. I am working on the MPG a bit, I used to run the tires at a lower pressure and have bumped that up with a surprising increase just from that. ( used to run 25ish on the street and I and starting with 27 and have seen increases and may bump to 30 just to test that out too. I also need to do injectors , so I figure once I have the fuel actually getting into the engine, I might see an increase as well lol. Worst case I have a few jerry cant that tag along with me on some trips.