Overlanding suspension?

[Odinsink]

I have been looking into icon suspensions. I was contemplating a stage 6 as that final part to my FJ Cruiser build. Then I saw a video that talked about your suspension not being as important as your tent and how overland vehicles usually dont need a crazy suspension because you arent crawling. I added at least 1000lbs to my truck. Bumpers, winch, roof top tent, custom cabinets, dual battery set up, jack, traction boards.etc etc etc.

Should I still go with an Icon set up? I left $5k in my budget. Is there a better use for that money? I am new to all of this and have never been a "car guy", so I am looking for sound advice. Thanks.

 

[diabetiktaco]

From my experience Icon is about lifting a vehicle. I would be more concerned with compensating for the amount of weight added. With that said look into OME springs and upgrade to the nitrocharger shocks while you are at it. You don't want to be dragging the belly or hitting bump stops when on rough roads. Seldom do I find myself rock crawling (if ever) but I am on long rough roads for miles. It's time like that I'm happy I've got the heavier springs and shocks to offset the weight I've added. And yes, Dan Grec is 100% correct. People confuse off roading with overlanding all of the time. It's two different things.

 

[old_man]

Skids and recovery points coupled with recovery equipment first. For overlanding, flex is overrated. Clearance is nice but skids and attention to line make up for a lot.

 

[Alanymarce]

I suggest either standard suspension (most good 4x4s are capable of going most places (other than "rock crawling") with no modifications, or...

- a lift is helpful, but don't overdo it (we lifted our vehicle 50mm).
- springs with higher load capability are good if you expect to load up the vehicle (which it seems you already have).
- higher-rated dampers are a good idea in my view
-skid plates add weight and reduce clearance - for "overlanding" I think they're a waste of money - just look where you're going...

If I were you I'd use the 5K to ship the vehicle to Africa and save some more money to bring it back....

 

[diabetiktaco]

It's always overkill, until it isn't.

 

[Alanymarce]

Yes - indeed - there's also the trade-off aspect. Everything you do (at least most things) which takes a vehicle further from standard adds complexity, stress, and risk, while adding capability (one hopes) and (if done properly) reduces risk again.

 

[Dlnuckolls]

I suggest either standard suspension (most good 4x4s are capable of going most places (other than "rock crawling") with no modifications, or...

- a lift is helpful, but don't overdo it (we lifted our vehicle 50mm).
- springs with higher load capability are good if you expect to load up the vehicle (which it seems you already have).
- higher-rated dampers are a good idea in my view
-skid plates add weight and reduce clearance - for "overlanding" I think they're a waste of money - just look where you're going...

If I were you I'd use the 5K to ship the vehicle to Africa and save some more money to bring it back....

I do agree that lift is less important than overall performance. From the sounds of your payload you might need to lift just to get back to the factory clearance. Springs and shocks would be a good investment from the sounds of what you are doing with your rig.

I would also agree that you should focus on some recovery points. You may never need them, until you hit that one spot when you do!

Skids are not a bad idea, if you plan on spending time off pavement. You could opt for aluminum instead of steel if your concerned about weight, but the would still offer some protection for those vital areas.

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

I have been looking into icon suspensions. I was contemplating a stage 6 as that final part to my FJ Cruiser build. Then I saw a video that talked about your suspension not being as important as your tent and how overland vehicles usually dont need a crazy suspension because you arent crawling. I added at least 1000lbs to my truck. Bumpers, winch, roof top tent, custom cabinets, dual battery set up, jack, traction boards.etc etc etc.

Should I still go with an Icon set up? I left $5k in my budget. Is there a better use for that money? I am new to all of this and have never been a "car guy", so I am looking for sound advice. Thanks.

I have a Tacoma with icon stage 4 and billet upper control arms and I can say that things you would not think possible now are. I have a bed rack getting a tent for it and rock sliders so far so not a ton of weight but icon does offer there rtx progressive leaf pack that can add or remove springs for whatever weight your carrying in my experience I would recommend

 

[tjZ06]

...Then I saw a video that talked about your suspension not being as important as your tent and how overland vehicles usually dont need a crazy suspension because you arent crawling...

I totally disagree. You can start with a $130 ground tent like I'm doing and a good sleeping pad and sleep just as good as a $3-5k Roof Top Tent. However, suspension matters a TON for Overlanding. Just because a suspension setup is "fancy" or expensive, doesn't mean it's only beneficial in crawling. In fact, pretty much nothing Icon makes is specifically engineered with crawling as the primary objective. Even their top JL-Rubicon kit lists "on and off road performance" as a benefit/engineering goal. I think they "get it" that most people buying off-the-shelf suspension kits aren't hardcore crawlers.

IMHO, a suspension setup that is very comfortable on road and drives very nice (doesn't wander, no death-wobble, no weird bump-steer etc.) is very important in Overlanding. We often drive as long, or longer on road before our dirt adventures even start. Then once you hit the dirt, *most* Overlanders don't really crawl at all. A suspension that works good on rutted and wash-boarded out fireroads is probably more crucial than the last coupe percent of articulation for most of us. If you try to cover lots of ground off-road, a suspension that allows you to carry good speed (much higher than the stock suspension could) on dirt roads is key too. Those are the sort of things Icon tends to focus on. That's not to say their stuff can't flex and crawl, just that suspension design isn't that one-dimensional.

There's also the weight aspect you mentioned. If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. In general, it won't be comfortable and perhaps even unsafe.

Net-net: "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" is a pretty silly way to look at it, IMHO.

-TJ

 

[Rath]

what I did on my truck was mostly leave the front mostly alone, just upgraded the shocks a bit, and keep it maintained properly.

Out back I swapped my stock Ford Ranger leaf springs out and put in 1/2 ton Chevy leaf springs. These are longer which gives a much smoother ride, they have a higher weight capacity so it handles the sleeping platform and gear a lot better (no, im not going over the trucks weight rating), and it allows for WAY more articulation, as well as it allowed me to remove the factory lift block and still gain about an inch and a half of lift. I'm pushing around 16 inches of suspension travel out back now. It's great on-road, and Fantastic off-road. Best of both worlds.

best part? I didn't spend a dime over $300. You don't have to spend thousands of dollars on shiny off the shelf stuff to get yourself a fantastic suspension setup.

 

[Boostpowered]

I totally disagree. You can start with a $130 ground tent like I'm doing and a good sleeping pad and sleep just as good as a $3-5k Roof Top Tent. However, suspension matters a TON for Overlanding. Just because a suspension setup is "fancy" or expensive, doesn't mean it's only beneficial in crawling. In fact, pretty much nothing Icon makes is specifically engineered with crawling as the primary objective. Even their top JL-Rubicon kit lists "on and off road performance" as a benefit/engineering goal. I think they "get it" that most people buying off-the-shelf suspension kits aren't hardcore crawlers.

IMHO, a suspension setup that is very comfortable on road and drives very nice (doesn't wander, no death-wobble, no weird bump-steer etc.) is very important in Overlanding. We often drive as long, or longer on road before our dirt adventures even start. Then once you hit the dirt, *most* Overlanders don't really crawl at all. A suspension that works good on rutted and wash-boarded out fireroads is probably more crucial than the last coupe percent of articulation for most of us. If you try to cover lots of ground off-road, a suspension that allows you to carry good speed (much higher than the stock suspension could) on dirt roads is key too. Those are the sort of things Icon tends to focus on. That's not to say their stuff can't flex and crawl, just that suspension design isn't that one-dimensional.

There's also the weight aspect you mentioned. If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. In general, it won't be comfortable and perhaps even unsafe.

Net-net: "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" is a pretty silly way to look at it, IMHO.

-TJ

Also if you build an rock crawler specifically no one just makes a kit thats gonna bolt right up, you will be starting from a tube chassis and figuring out the geometry on your own. Lots of measuring and fabrication involved in the process then you call whatever suspension mfg you want to use give them the specs of what you need.

Same thing if your building a race specific vehicle like a trophy truck made to go fast in the whoops you build it to handle that specific thing .

Thanks to racing and rock crawling the suspension mfgs are able to give you the best of what they have learned racing for your normal everyday 4x4 or offroad vehicle.

 

[Mavilla]

I am new here, want ask since I was thinking about doing Icon stage 7 for my 4Runner 2008 , and the installer tell me that stage 7 will be the best for street and off road and pulling trailer too. any advice will be appreciate it.

 

[Alanymarce]

...

There's also the weight aspect you mentioned. If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. In general, it won't be comfortable and perhaps even unsafe.

Net-net: "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" is a pretty silly way to look at it, IMHO.

-TJ

"If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. " - I guess it depends what you mean by this. If your vehicle is standard, and you are within GVM then it'll sit as designed - within the "stock" range of movement - obviously when it's loaded it'll sit a little lower than when it's empty, but as long as you're within design GVM it will be within the standard range and won't "wallow" around, at least not as I understand the term. If the vehicle is "wallowing around" when it has standard springs and dampers, and is within GVM then there's something wrong with it.

re "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" - once again, I guess it depends what one means by "crazy suspension". We have an upgraded set of springs and dampers, and a 50mm lift, load our vehicle (well) within GVM - the ride is excellent and we can handle anything we've encountered in "overlanding" including rocky tracks, uneven river beds, and dunes. I guess others can decide whether this constitutes "crazy suspension" however we certainly don't do anything i would call "rock crawling".

 

[Dlnuckolls]

...

There's also the weight aspect you mentioned. If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. In general, it won't be comfortable and perhaps even unsafe.

Net-net: "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" is a pretty silly way to look at it, IMHO.

-TJ

"If you stay stock you'll be sitting lower than stock with way less up-travel and you'll be under-dampened for the mass of the rig, so it will wallow around more. " - I guess it depends what you mean by this. If your vehicle is standard, and you are within GVM then it'll sit as designed - within the "stock" range of movement - obviously when it's loaded it'll sit a little lower than when it's empty, but as long as you're within design GVM it will be within the standard range and won't "wallow" around, at least not as I understand the term. If the vehicle is "wallowing around" when it has standard springs and dampers, and is within GVM then there's something wrong with it.

re "you don't need crazy suspension because you aren't crawling" - once again, I guess it depends what one means by "crazy suspension". We have an upgraded set of springs and dampers, and a 50mm lift, load our vehicle (well) within GVM - the ride is excellent and we can handle anything we've encountered in "overlanding" including rocky tracks, uneven river beds, and dunes. I guess others can decide whether this constitutes "crazy suspension" however we certainly don't do anything i would call "rock crawling".

I would tend to agree for the most part. Some very smart engineers figured out all that stuff, and my second guessing them is bound to develop problems of my own making. I do, however, plan on a small lift just to offset the added bumpers and skid weights. That being said, I do plan on spending lots of time off pavement but very little time crawling over rocks! I will opt to just go around them instead.

 

[trikebubble]

Comfort is very important to me, and we travel thousands of miles a year on bumpy and rutted logging and forestry roads. On road handling is also important to me, we spend a lot of time traveling twisty tight mountain roads, up and down to the ski hill, over multiple mountain passes, etc. For these reasons, I put quality good suspension near the top of the list. I budgeted the most I could for suspension when setting up the truck and camper. I personally went with ADS Racing (though their are a number of other top quality brands out there too) and have had absolutely no regrets. Good/great shocks can handle the excessive miles of washboard and bumpy roads without giving up, and really good shocks can also make the vehicle handle way better on the tight twisty mountain highway type stuff. Every time I throw my truck into a corner somewhere in the mountains I am impressed by how it sticks there, shocks doing their job. I'm no rock crawler, though we do take the truck and camper places she probably shouldn't go, and every time we come home I marvel at how well a good tuned for your setup suspension system works. For me, it's worth every penny of the investment.

 

[tjZ06]

I guess it depends what you mean by this. If your vehicle is standard, and you are within GVM then it'll sit as designed - within the "stock" range of movement - obviously when it's loaded it'll sit a little lower than when it's empty, but as long as you're within design GVM it will be within the standard range and won't "wallow" around, at least not as I understand the term. If the vehicle is "wallowing around" when it has standard springs and dampers, and is within GVM then there's something wrong with it.

The OP said he's added over 1k lbs to his rig, before you add passengers, gear etc. So, with the stock suspension on it, it's going to sit more compressed - which means there is less up-travel available. Further, your spring and damping rates will not be matched to the weight it's carrying. Yes, if you stay within GVWR (I assume that's our analog to GVM) then the stock stuff *should* handle it, but not in an ideal fashion. Any street vehicle is a compromise when it's engineered. They will not perform optimally right at their max GVWR/GVM - and I suspect the OP will be beyond that anyway...

-TJ

 

[Billiebob]

I went to the Ikon website, they make no mention of increasing payload capability. All their products are built to enhance the handling, off road performance of a stock vehicle. Contrary to the "rock crawling" capability, I see Ikon building more a Trophy Truck, high speed off roader. I doubt Ikon Stage 5 offers any increase to the capability of a FSR overlanding vehicle driven prudently.

 

[slomatt]

Odinsink, I think the critical thing to consider is if you expect to travel at high speeds on very rough roads for extended periods of time. If the answer is yes, then you might want to consider a high dollar suspension like the Icon stage 6. Large diameter coilovers with remote reservoirs add much greater oil capacity to keep temperatures down and adjustable compression (and sometimes rebound) so that you can tweak the ride. The downside is that when you bring heim joints and rebuildable coilovers into the picture then the maintenance requirements increase significantly over an "old school" suspension like OME or Bilstein. Some argue that you save money in the long run since they are rebuildable, but personally I'd rather pay $500-1000 for new shocks every 50-100k miles than deal with the cost and downtime of rebuilding coilovers every 15-30k miles.

You can get different spring rates and shock valving in both coilovers and basic suspension systems to better handle added weight and to tune the ride quality, but neither increases GVWR.

As noted above, highly experienced overlanders like Dan Grec and Scott Brady recommend a simple suspension system due to the reliability and reasonable cost, and then spending the savings on travel.

Coilovers look cooler, but keep in mind that the cool kids are running Kings currently and not Icon or Fox. :)

If you do go with coilovers, it might be worth spending the money to have a company like Accutune custom valve them based on your trucks weight distribution.

 

[tjZ06]

I doubt Ikon Stage 5 offers any increase to the capability of a FSR overlanding vehicle driven prudently.

I still disagree - better is better.

Every FSR I've ever been on has tons of "pot holes" and washboard sections. More, better-tuned suspension travel will make for a better ride and higher comfortable speeds, period. And I'm not talking about bombing FSRs at race-car speeds, tearing up the road surface (making the washboards worse) and endangering yourself and others. What I'm talking about, is the difference between 5 MPH being comfortable and 15 MPH being comfortable.

I have done tons of miles on FSRs in my '11 D'max truck which has a pretty nice, but basic suspension on it. With the weight, the air pressure one needs to run in something that heavy, etc. I simply have to go slower to be comfortable than I do in the WJ. And both of them are WAY slower than I can go and stay perfectly comfortable in our RZR. I'm not saying any of our "Overland" rigs are ever going to work like a RZR like mine (which has custom spring rates, converted to real cross overs, custom valving, etc. etc.), but the point is, if you can do 15 instead of 5 MPH or 25 instead of 15 you can cover a lot more ground in more comfort.

I know Overlanding isn't always about trying to cover ground fast, it's almost the opposite - but if you have time limitations and don't like setting up camp in the dark, sometimes saving an hour or two on the trail is key. And even if you just go the same speed as a rig with stock suspension, you'll be more comfortable the whole way.

-TJ

 

[Highplainsdrifter]

I doubt Ikon Stage 5 offers any increase to the capability of a FSR overlanding vehicle driven prudently.

I still disagree - better is better.

Every FSR I've ever been on has tons of "pot holes" and washboard sections. More, better-tuned suspension travel will make for a better ride and higher comfortable speeds, period. And I'm not talking about bombing FSRs at race-car speeds, tearing up the road surface (making the washboards worse) and endangering yourself and others. What I'm talking about, is the difference between 5 MPH being comfortable and 15 MPH being comfortable.

I have done tons of miles on FSRs in my '11 D'max truck which has a pretty nice, but basic suspension on it. With the weight, the air pressure one needs to run in something that heavy, etc. I simply have to go slower to be comfortable than I do in the WJ. And both of them are WAY slower than I can go and stay perfectly comfortable in our RZR. I'm not saying any of our "Overland" rigs are ever going to work like a RZR like mine (which has custom spring rates, converted to real cross overs, custom valving, etc. etc.), but the point is, if you can do 15 instead of 5 MPH or 25 instead of 15 you can cover a lot more ground in more comfort.

I know Overlanding isn't always about trying to cover ground fast, it's almost the opposite - but if you have time limitations and don't like setting up camp in the dark, sometimes saving an hour or two on the trail is key. And even if you just go the same speed as a rig with stock suspension, you'll be more comfortable the whole way.

-TJ

Finally someone that understands. the guy that posted said he has the money set aside why would you not get the best you can afford? There is nothing wrong with making due with what you have but there is also nothing wrong with buying nice things I get the feeling a lot of people here think something is wrong with you if you worked hard and bought nice top end stuff for your rig