Overlanding mobile radio setup: side hobby or necessity?

[rrjones2u]

I can't speak for GMRS but the biggest thing you look for is power output. The reason CBs aren't good except for group communication is the fact that they are limited to 5 watts transmit power which doesn't give you the range you need. I know with ham radios that your average 2m rig is 50 watts transmit power, and with a amateur radio liscense you are authorized up to 1500 watts transmit depending on the frequency. Also there are a lot of repeaters that offer an autopatch function that allows you to make local phone calls through the repeaters. I have been told that GMRS has a higher power output available but I don't know more than that.

One more thing, I've found tons of available mobile radios for 2m and CB, mostly on Amazon. Its pretty easy to pick out the cheapy models, and the name brand ones that have good ratings.

I haven't found much out there for GMRS mobile units, and I can't find any info on whether or not a specific GMRS model ALSO has FRS compatibility. What should I be looking for in terms of specs on the GMRS units? Any major brand names I should look at that are safe, and don't break the bank?

 

[m_lars]

I haven't found much out there for GMRS mobile units, and I can't find any info on whether or not a specific GMRS model ALSO has FRS compatibility. What should I be looking for in terms of specs on the GMRS units? Any major brand names I should look at that are safe, and don't break the bank?

Have you seen the Midland MicroMobile line? They have a few models with varying max output that share 1-7 and 15-22 between FRS/GMRS and work with repeaters. They're pretty cheap when you start comparing them to a ham.

https://midlandusa.com/micromobile/

 

[Prerunner1982]

GMRS-my understanding is that it also has cross compatibility with FRS, also seems to be most useful for local comms. Is there any reason for me to get into a mobile unit vs a few handhelds as a noob who's just starting to learn, and is probably jumping ahead of his practical need at the moment?

FRS and GMRS share most all the same frequencies. So a handheld (2watts or less is FRS, more than 2 watts is GMRS) can be used but a mobile radio with a few more watts and an external antenna would serve you better providing more distance. A handheld from inside a vehicle is quite limited as the metal body of the vehicle acts as a cage and bounces the signal around inside. Same for a ham handheld (commonly called an HT, Handy Talky).
A handheld would be best used by a spotter or someone outside the vehicle to talk back to the vehicle or when both are on foot.

No different than any one of us telling someone who's never camped before exactly how important it is to tread lightly, and care for the natural environments we are enjoying.

Well put!

It is my understanding that you can transmit in the threat of harm to body or property, please correct me if that is wrong. .

You are correct, if no other means of calling for help is available you can use ANY frequency you can.

This was one thing that really piqued my interest early on when I heard it discussed on a couple of podcasts. It's a super cool idea, but it seems you need to get a fairly serious transceiver to be able to operate APRS and use it for comms simultaneously. Maybe not, but again very hard to weed through when you are brand new.

Which podcasts might that be?
If you want both in the same radio yes you need a pretty serious (i.e. expensive) transceiver, however you can run them separately for a bit cheaper. I run my APRS off a 2m radio and do voice on a different dual band radio. Works great.

Have you seen the Midland MicroMobile line? They have a few models with varying max output that share 1-7 and 15-22 between FRS/GMRS and work with repeaters. They're pretty cheap when you start comparing them to a ham.

https://midlandusa.com/micromobile/

Or pretty expensive (MXT-400) when comparing them to a 2m ham radio. Which you can get from any of the big 3 (Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom) for about $150. But I guess when you have the legal GMRS mobile market cornered you can price the products how ever you like.

 

[brien]

This is an example of what I was talking about above. It comes across, to me anyway, as a little condescending. Cleary he (and I) know this and he (we) are trying to figure out what our needs are.

Sorry, didn't mean to come of as condescending or elitist. I took OP's question as "Should I get a radio?" and responded with essentially "Yes. get one" with some justifications. I do tend to blabber on when trying to convince people to get licensed though :)

It is my understanding that you can transmit in the threat of harm to body or property, please correct me if that is wrong. This MAY be a good case for a HT and just have it on to listen and get the hang of it. In the event you are in an emergency, use it to call for help. Assuming there is help listening.

I think the primary purpose is so that operators know what frequency ranges they can use, and what power settings. With the 1500W power limit of amateur radio, you can really do some terrible things accidentally if you transmit on an incorrect frequency or transmit with an unsafe setup. Of course, with an handheld you're not likely going to cause serious harm to other people or cause too much trouble since the power is limited to just a few watts.

Having a radio you can't TX on is definitely better than not having a radio at all. And yeah, I don't think anybody will come after you if you TX without a license during an *actual* life or death situation. The FCC regs have some wording that suggests "do whatever you have to if life is on the line". The radio won't be helpful in the case that you have any other sort of emergency, however, like a remote breakdown or something.

One argument to getting a license even for this "i'll only use it in an absolute life or death emergency" use case is that with a license you can actually practice using the radio, so when the time comes, you don't find yourself with a radio but no idea how to go about making a contact. Or more likely, having a repeater programmed in, where you can hear people very clearly, but since you were never able to TX on it, you didn't realize you needed a specific PL Tone or CTCSS code to actually trigger the repeater to listen to you.

This was one thing that really piqued my interest early on when I heard it discussed on a couple of podcasts. It's a super cool idea, but it seems you need to get a fairly serious transceiver to be able to operate APRS and use it for comms simultaneously. Maybe not, but again very hard to weed through when you are brand new.

APRS is so cool, my next mobile rig will have GPS and APRS built-in for sure. For now I have a mobilinkd TNC 2 that i can hook up to any radio (i typically hook it up to a cheapo Baofeng) and then I can connect via bluetooth to my phone to act as the GPS and the APRS message generator. Still not super cheap, but for $100 you can get the TNC and a baofeng and be on the air.

 

[brien]

One more thing, I've found tons of available mobile radios for 2m and CB, mostly on Amazon. Its pretty easy to pick out the cheapy models, and the name brand ones that have good ratings.

I haven't found much out there for GMRS mobile units, and I can't find any info on whether or not a specific GMRS model ALSO has FRS compatibility. What should I be looking for in terms of specs on the GMRS units? Any major brand names I should look at that are safe, and don't break the bank?

GMRS and FRS both share the same channel frequencies now. The main difference with the two, aside from the license requirement, is that GMRS radios can send much more power than FRS radios, therefore the range is better and the signal quality is better. All GMRS/FRS radios of all brands will be able to communicate with each other. One thing you'll want to be aware of is that there are CTCSS codes or "Privacy codes" that some radios will offer. If you are in well traveled places you will run into a LOT of GMRS/FRS radio traffic, and it can become difficult to communicate. The CTCSS/Privacy Codes allow you to lock the RX onto only signals that begin with a special tone sent by the other radio. If you have two different brands of radio, the codes may be different, so you may have to fiddle with the settings a bit if you want to use them. Worst case, you just turn the codes off and deal with any interference.

As has been pointed out before in this thread, you will need a license for GMRS. It's $70 for 10 years and covers your whole household, which is a smokin' deal. One license and now your spouse and kids can all use GMRS radios. The main reason I have my GMRS license is for this use. When we're at camp, and my two young boys (5yo and 10yo) want to go explore on their own, I hand them each a GMRS HT and off they go! I can sit back with my GMRS and keep tabs on them and be listening incase they have a problem.

Main brands to look for with GMRS are Midland, Cobra, and Motorola. NOTE: You'll see some maximum ranges mentioned in much of the marketing material for these where they're talking about 30+ mile range. Just know that that's complete bull. If one radio was on the ground, and one was directly overhead floating in space, yes, technically you will get 30+ mile range, but in the real world, expect 5-8 miles max with GMRS and much less with FRS.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

There's some good info here, thanks to those who have added to the conversation.



I find it overwhelming when it's a new area and trying to figure out what works for ME. I get the impression the OP is feeling the same way. I have also found that some of the people "in the know" are a little bit douchey, wether they intend to be or not. I was reading through a thread on the "official Overland Bound" radio channels and there was at least one guy who was just being a dick, intentionally, about proper licensing. I get this vibe more than I feel I should.

It's one of those things where "you don't know what you don't know". You may know your needs to a level of exactness not seen in all of human history....but if you don't know what options are out there to address those needs, you need info, and that's what these threads are for. No sense in you and OP starting from scratch if other folks have already done the leg work. That's like taking an overloading trip without maps of fun trails. Sure, it can be fun -- but it takes a ton of time, you gotta go more slowly, and you never know if you end up down the wrong road. So resources like this are your map.


As far as people sounding douchey or elitist, on behalf of HAMs everywhere, I'm really sorry you have seen and experienced that. I've read countless backcountry comms threads and I can totally understand what you mean, though. My experience with "Elmers" (the slang term for more experienced HAMs who mentor new ones) has been universally positive. I'll tell you a story about a guy named Pete.

I met Pete on the Dalton Highway (or just before it) at a little coffee shop/trading post. I was on my motorbike, travelling with my wife who was in our jeep. I got off my bike, doffed my gear, and was rummaging in the jeep to get stuff out when Pete came out of the little gift shop/trading post with a coffee in his hands. He leaned on his pickup and took a sip, but his hat caught my eye -- it was a Yaesu.

I asked him if he was a HAM, he said yes. He lives off the grid on a mountain and uses his rig to surf the net and everything. He hits a repeater in Fairbanks somehow and he can do e-mail and all sorts of stuff. He sometimes comes down to the trading post for a coffee.

The conversation evolved to the highway, and expressed a deep hatred for the motorbikes that go up and down en-mass, as they often speed by his place and some of them are unreasonably loud. He's right about noise and bikes, but that's for another story. At this point I realized he didn't realize I was on my bike -- he thought I was in the jeep. The conversation continued until I finally fessed up - "Not all of us are that bad, Pete...I'm actually riding that" and I pointed to my bike.

We had a good laugh, he agreed that "a blind clock finds a nut once in a while", and we chatted radios. He gave me a ton of tips on how to communicate up the highway, and then as a parting gift, he gave me a copy of a DVD he made of the Dalton and sells in the gift shop. He gave it to me for free from one Ham to another, and then told me that if I was ever up that way again I was welcome to visit.

So despite me being the embodiment of what he despised -- a motorbiker -- he opened his home, knowledge, and kindness to me because we were Hams. And he taught me a lot about radios in the hour or so we were chatting!

That is my typical experience with Elmers, and again, I'm sorry you've had that experience in some threads. There are jerks in every hobby, unfortunately -- whether they mean to be one or not, some folks can come across that way.

It is my understanding that you can transmit in the threat of harm to body or property, please correct me if that is wrong. This MAY be a good case for a HT and just have it on to listen and get the hang of it. In the event you are in an emergency, use it to call for help. Assuming there is help listening.

This was one thing that really piqued my interest early on when I heard it discussed on a couple of podcasts. It's a super cool idea, but it seems you need to get a fairly serious transceiver to be able to operate APRS and use it for comms simultaneously. Maybe not, but again very hard to weed through when you are brand new.

This has already been answered, but one further thought -- even if FCC is a little grey on what constitutes an emergency (backcountry breakdowns could result in loss of life, after all), this is a topic where "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

You put that very well sir. I run what I know and haven't delved into GMRS, FRS, SPOT or others so I couldn't speak to that. You have made some valid points and maybe this old dog can learn some new tricks.

Thanks for the kind words sir! I suppose even if you learn a new trick doesn't mean you have to use it -- 'mind needs learning like a knife needs a hone' is a good enough excuse for me to get into new hobbies, and if I learn my fill and don't like 'em, I move on!

 

[m_lars]

One argument to getting a license even for this "i'll only use it in an absolute life or death emergency" use case is that with a license you can actually practice using the radio, so when the time comes, you don't find yourself with a radio but no idea how to go about making a contact. Or more likely, having a repeater programmed in, where you can hear people very clearly, but since you were never able to TX on it, you didn't realize you needed a specific PL Tone or CTCSS code to actually trigger the repeater to listen to you.

My comment wasn't so much that you shouldn't get the license, I think it's well worth the $15 and few hours out of your like. More that one could delve into the world of ham radio for little up front in time or $. I am definitely a hands on learner, so to do it this way makes sense to me.

As far as people sounding douchey or elitist, on behalf of HAMs everywhere, I'm really sorry you have seen and experienced that. I've read countless backcountry comms threads and I can totally understand what you mean, though. My experience with "Elmers" (the slang term for more experienced HAMs who mentor new ones) has been universally positive.




This has already been answered, but one further thought -- even if FCC is a little grey on what constitutes an emergency (backcountry breakdowns could result in loss of life, after all), this is a topic where "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!

I believe you, I've heard the same from others. I think the difference is a peer to peer relationship, rather than some no-nothing on a random forum.

My thoughts exactly on the "grey area"!

Which podcasts might that be?

If you want both in the same radio yes you need a pretty serious (i.e. expensive) transceiver, however you can run them separately for a bit cheaper. I run my APRS off a 2m radio and do voice on a different dual band radio. Works great.



Or pretty expensive (MXT-400) when comparing them to a 2m ham radio. Which you can get from any of the big 3 (Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom) for about $150. But I guess when you have the legal GMRS mobile market cornered you can price the products how ever you like.

The off-road podcast was one, pretty sure the second was the overland roundtable. Both were started by the same guy and I believe they are no longer recorded.

I didn't think about running separate radios, I was looking at one to rule them all. The problem with multiple radios is I'm not really sure where to mount 1, but certainly clever to use multiple.

As far as the Midland price, with my limited knowledge, I was again comparing more with the high dollar APRS enabled dual-band radio. Not really apples to apples.

 

[Prerunner1982]

The off-road podcast was one, pretty sure the second was the overland roundtable. Both were started by the same guy and I believe they are no longer recorded.

I didn't think about running separate radios, I was looking at one to rule them all. The problem with multiple radios is I'm not really sure where to mount 1,

Yeah, Dan. He's a good guy, have known him for many years. He had been in Alaska for the last 3 years and due to the time difference it made it hard to record with co-hosts. He is stationed on the west coast now so hopefully once he gets settled he will start recording again.
I was going to laugh if you had said you heard it on the podcast I do/did communication segments for, but figured it was the off road podcast.

I run 3 radios... Had them spread out where ever I could find a spot to stash them, but since I am moving to a different Jeep I am going to redo them and mount them all together. Has taken quite a while to come up with a good way to do this, but hopefully I have it all ironed out now.

 

[m_lars]

Yeah, Dan. He's a good guy

He seems like it, except for the constant Land Rover bashing! I get a little defensive, they’re the brand everybody loves to hate!

 

[Prerunner1982]

He seems like it, except for the constant Land Rover bashing! I get a little defensive, they’re the brand everybody loves to hate!

You listen to the Centre Steer podcast?

 

[m_lars]

You listen to the Centre Steer podcast?

No, I switched jobs so my podcast listening has gone way down.

 

[martin_j001]

Some good info in this thread, as another person considering communications while out on local trails. So far, I'm only spending time in the North GA area, but hope to expand on that as my daughter gets a little older and more seat time becomes possible. While the HAM licensing and radio cost isn't off-putting, debating the idea of more work to make something usable to me in case of emergency sometimes is. Can anyone speak to the time it takes to set up a radio for a trip, programming-wise? At this point in time, it would be relatively easy for me as I'm spending most of my time in one area, but just curious to know about that aspect of HAM use too. Getting a GMRS license again may be in my future, as it seems currently that I would need car to car (in relatively close distance) or car to spotter, or around camp comms. Between that and a SPOT device (or other like it) for emergency notification/use seems like it might be a decent setup.

 

[Lost-Again]

I have both. Plan on getting a Garmin inReach mini before my spring Utah trip.

 

[Prerunner1982]

Some good info in this thread, as another person considering communications while out on local trails. So far, I'm only spending time in the North GA area, but hope to expand on that as my daughter gets a little older and more seat time becomes possible. While the HAM licensing and radio cost isn't off-putting, debating the idea of more work to make something usable to me in case of emergency sometimes is. Can anyone speak to the time it takes to set up a radio for a trip, programming-wise? At this point in time, it would be relatively easy for me as I'm spending most of my time in one area, but just curious to know about that aspect of HAM use too.

There are programming software for most radios. I use a free software called CHIRP. It can download all repeater info (frequency, tone, offset) from online databases for a given county. If you stay in one area for now you can set up your radio once and be good to go. Once you get to exploring more areas you can create files for your trips and just load the file you need each time you go on that trip rather than having 500 repeaters in your radio all the time.

I typically will create a fake memory channel with the name of the county/city/area so that I know every repeater that comes after that is in that area.

Now if you get crazy with it and add public safety frequencies and such it may take a little longer to create a file, but once you have the file made loading it to the radio is pretty quick and easy.

 

[94Cruiser]

Like the title says. Do you actually use it on a regular basis? And is your use hobby based, or coming from practical need for communication in a group? CB/Ham/FRS/GMRS. Whatever. Trying to decide if its even worth it for me to go down the mobile radio rabbit hole right now. My family and I only go out alone. We also don't hit hard trails, we mostly just camp. We don't belong to a local 4x4 club, and don't really go on group trail rides or anything like that. My brother in law is the only person I know who would go offroading somewhere with me, and he uses cheapy FRS handhelds.

I know lots of people add mobile radios for safety and group comms. This makes sense. But for us, we don't go out in groups, and even our bigger trips we're planning for out west next year won't be in groups. We will be much more remote in our future planned trips, but I seriously doubt doing huge offroad group activities will ever be a big part of how we overland. It seems to me a that an inreach style gps/emergency locater device would serve us just as well safety wise. Also, as cool as this rabbit trail seems, I don't really have a desire to add another hobby to my long list of activities. Time is limited, energy is limited, and at this point in my life, I try to maximize what we already have chosen to do without adding new things or skills in the mix.

Tell me why I'm wrong, or why your experiences point in a different direction! Open to learning and having my mind changed.

I use them mostly for communications while in a group setting.

I've turned them on in my regular life, and have enjoyed listening to some of the chatter, but most of it I find boring after about 10 minutes....

Now, I have them for emergency situations. About a year ago, the Napa area had massive fires that knocked out cell operations. I only had one radio at the time, and thus, my wife and I couldn't communicate when we were apart (work, while one of us was in the Napa Valley...) However, we were able to hear the fire and emergency communications, and could have reached out to the ham community had we encountered a crisis.

As result of that, we now have a small radio in each car in case of this kind of event.

I'm considering more a more powerful radio in the Land Cruiser since that is the vehicle we use in which to intentionally get lost in the mountains...

 

[vegasjeepguy]

My family and I only go out alone. We also don't hit hard trails, we mostly just camp. We don't belong to a local 4x4 club, and don't really go on group trail rides or anything like that.

This is me. I’ve been a CB guy since 1990, primarily because that was what was available. Affordable handheld radios pretty much sucked and a vehicle mounted radio wasn’t cheap. Plus no one else was using them because everyone had a CB. There are one or two guys I’ll go off-roading or camping with and they have CBs too. The limited range isn’t an issue because we are not communicating over long distances. We just need to be able to talk to the vehicle a couple hundred yards away about turning there or stopping here.

So, for about $100, you can install a pretty good CB radio setup that gives you a communication option that may not get much use at all on the trail, assuming the other vehicles are equipped. You can also pick up a handheld CB for less than $50 that you can “loan” to a friend on the trail if they aren’t equipped. But a CB certainly can be useful on the road. Especially for getting road conditions and accident updates from all the truckers who still use CBs.

Unless your involved with a group that has a dedicated comm setup or you personally have an interest in developing your own, a CB is tried and true for the purpose it was designed, is easy to use and still very common among my circle.

 

[brien]

I typically will create a fake memory channel with the name of the county/city/area so that I know every repeater that comes after that is in that area.

This is genius! I'm definitely going to start doing this, thanks!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

This is me. I’ve been a CB guy since 1990, primarily because that was what was available. Affordable handheld radios pretty much sucked and a vehicle mounted radio wasn’t cheap. Plus no one else was using them because everyone had a CB. There are one or two guys I’ll go off-roading or camping with and they have CBs too. The limited range isn’t an issue because we are not communicating over long distances. We just need to be able to talk to the vehicle a couple hundred yards away about turning there or stopping here.

So, for about $100, you can install a pretty good CB radio setup that gives you a communication option that may not get much use at all on the trail, assuming the other vehicles are equipped. You can also pick up a handheld CB for less than $50 that you can “loan” to a friend on the trail if they aren’t equipped. But a CB certainly can be useful on the road. Especially for getting road conditions and accident updates from all the truckers who still use CBs.

Unless your involved with a group that has a dedicated comm setup or you personally have an interest in developing your own, a CB is tried and true for the purpose it was designed, is easy to use and still very common among my circle.

CB's were all the rage for a period of time, that's for sure. And it sounds like yours works for your application which is great. That's what it's all about. I will suggest a counterpoint though for new folks reading this thread and wanting to compare the two (it's not meant as a critique...you could be using tin cans on a string between cars and if that works for your crew, that is a) hilarious and b) totally and completely your choice and a great solution so don't change a thing!)

I would suggest for a person who has yet to adopt a system that GMRS can do everything a CB can, but for less money, and better.

CBs have a lot of the hiccups of HAM in some ways -- you need to set them up properly tune the radio to the antenna (which requires a special meter), and even when it's perfectly dialled in you'll be looking at maybe a 2-5 mile range. That works perfectly well for most folks and I'd say if you and your community are already set up on CBs for overloading, there's no need to switch. But if you are starting fresh, take a look at what GMRS can do for you.

- GMRS Radios are cheap. You can get a two pack for $50 or less which equips you and your buddy. (for example, https://www.walmart.com/ip/Midland-LXT600VP3-26-mile-Range-2-way/20532050). More expensive options top out at around $75, and include features like Bluetooth (Great for motorcyclist overlanders with a range of headset brands as these allow Sena, Cardo, Scala, etc. to all work together!) and waterproofing as well as a bit better TX power and RX sensitivity (TX = transmit; RX = recieve). Places like Costco sell 2 packs of very good radios for fairly low prices.

- GMRS Radios have a comparable range to a typical CB setup, in that they handle local communications out to a couple of miles just fine even if rough terrain.

- GMRS usually has a clearer audio quality than CB (by account of the frequencies they operate on)

- GMRS units can be purchased in base station configurations (See the Midland options posted earlier) that put out up to 40 watts of power and can use repeaters. CBs are limited to 4 watts (I think) and cannot use repeaters.

- If you get a surprise friend joining you on a trip, you can usually pick up a GMRS radio at a gas station these days to add them to the comms link.

- GMRS often will have a multitude of privacy codes which will allow your group to chat privately even if there are 20 other people using that channel.

- GMRS is, like CB, a license free service in Canada. Others have posted that you need a $70 family license (good for 10 years) in the USA.

- GMRS radios comes in purdy colours, like pink, yellow, and camo, if that's your thing :D (I'm running out of advantages for my list!)


Anyway that's my take on it. CB is still really useful in some contexts -- my understanding is its still the 'radio of choice' for truckers so on interstate travel it potentially still handy.

And actually, another argument for HAM over GMRS or CB is that a lot of haul roads up here in Canada have a frequency posted at the start of the road of the commercial channels being used. These are usually just lower than HAM frequencies and are specific to commercial radios. But, companies like and typically encourage amateurs using the haul roads to tune into those channels. Some even encourage you to transmit. The way the radio is used is you call out your kilometre marker and whether you are 'heavy' (coming out of the bush) or 'Light' (going into the bush). This means there are fewer surprised of a fully loaded B-train logging truck careening around a mountain road into a camper's minivan. If all you do is listen it'll let you know when a truck is heading your way and can help you be a bit more cautious and maybe pull over.


Yikes...I think the moral of the story after all this typing is install a dual battery and heavy duty alternator, make your rig look like a porcupine with antennas, and get one of ALL the radios. That way you're set no matter what :D (Kidding!)

 

[m_lars]

I’m all set!