Overlanding mobile radio setup: side hobby or necessity?

[Ben Cleveland]

Like the title says. Do you actually use it on a regular basis? And is your use hobby based, or coming from practical need for communication in a group? CB/Ham/FRS/GMRS. Whatever. Trying to decide if its even worth it for me to go down the mobile radio rabbit hole right now. My family and I only go out alone. We also don't hit hard trails, we mostly just camp. We don't belong to a local 4x4 club, and don't really go on group trail rides or anything like that. My brother in law is the only person I know who would go offroading somewhere with me, and he uses cheapy FRS handhelds.

I know lots of people add mobile radios for safety and group comms. This makes sense. But for us, we don't go out in groups, and even our bigger trips we're planning for out west next year won't be in groups. We will be much more remote in our future planned trips, but I seriously doubt doing huge offroad group activities will ever be a big part of how we overland. It seems to me a that an inreach style gps/emergency locater device would serve us just as well safety wise. Also, as cool as this rabbit trail seems, I don't really have a desire to add another hobby to my long list of activities. Time is limited, energy is limited, and at this point in my life, I try to maximize what we already have chosen to do without adding new things or skills in the mix.

Tell me why I'm wrong, or why your experiences point in a different direction! Open to learning and having my mind changed.

 

[m_lars]

I’ll be watching this one! I’m struggling with the same questions. I’ve read study guides for the ham test and can pass practice tests with flying colors, but that hasn’t really taught me how to use a radio. It seems like a deep dark hole.

When I lived in MN we used CBs for trail comms, so that what I currently have. My first outing with people in UT, no one used them and they had hams. Right now I’m leaning towards getting my license and a cheap handheld since, at this point, it’ll only be for trail comms.

 

[Ben Cleveland]

I’ll be watching this one! I’m struggling with the same questions. I’ve read study guides for the ham test and can pass practice tests with flying colors, but that hasn’t really taught me how to use a radio. It seems like a deep dark hole.

When I lived in MN we used CBs for trail comms, so that what I currently have. My first outing with people in UT, no one used them and they had hams. Right now I’m leaning towards getting my license and a cheap handheld since, at this point, it’ll only be for trail comms.

Your experience is pretty much why I haven't gone any further down the Ham route. It seems cool and useful, and I enjoy learning, and I've read study guides for the Ham test, but it doesn't seem to be a super efficient way for a complete noob to approach learning it.

I'd have a CB if i was around people who used them but I'm not. I'm leaning towards getting a few GMRS/FRS handhelds for cheap, and just sticking with that whenever I feel the need. Those are easy, GMRS license is cheap, and offers more power/distance than FRS by themselves, and there's pretty much no learning curve for GMRS or FRS handhelds from what I've read.

I think I sort of want to hear a bunch of really good reasons why I should go down the comms rabbit hole, because new things are fun, but I know practically I don't have a lot of use for them.

 

[Prerunner1982]

VHF/UHF for better trail/convoy comms, though GMRS would work fine here.
HF for major SHTF situations and as a hobby. Just something cool about hearing a station in Russia or Australia or where ever half way around the world and when you key up and throw your call out to him from your vehicle and he/she responds. 98% of my DX contacts have been from my Jeep, I think that's just cool. When I am at camp I also have a home made fan dipole and a mast that I put up. #radionerd

GMRS is really geared more towards the appliance operator who wants more for comms but not so interested in the technical side of it. Nothing wrong with that if it serves the purpose you have. I have seen many people who are either a technician license or studying their technician license gripe about how they should drop all the technical stuff from the test and for those people GMRS is the answer.

 

[Prerunner1982]

My brother in law is the only person I know who would go offroading somewhere with me, and he uses cheapy FRS handhelds.

Put any distance between the vehicles and the FRS radio isn't going to cut it. GMRS would work better. Ham would be much better. Depending on where you go some places have nice repeater networks that could put you in contact with someone, even if it's just to say, "Hey can you call someone to let them know I am ok, but having mechanical problems." Most hams would gladly help out as many do during tornadoes, floods, hurricane aftermath, etc. Some areas are pretty bare of repeaters in which case the PLB/Inreach may be your only option. As the saying goes, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Always a good idea to have a back up.
Colorado and Moab are both examples of places that may have poor cell service but good repeater coverage.
http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/ci_24778577/family-saved-by-ham-radio-and-good-samaritan

Tell me why I'm wrong, or why your experiences point in a different direction! Open to learning and having my mind changed.

You aren't wrong if it's not something you will use it would be a waste of your time and money, but then again as I always say, "I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

 

[Ben Cleveland]

Put any distance between the vehicles and the FRS radio isn't going to cut it. GMRS would work better. Ham would be much better. Depending on where you go some places have nice repeater networks that could put you in contact with someone, even if it's just to say, "Hey can you call someone to let them know I am ok, but having mechanical problems." Most hams would gladly help out as many do during tornadoes, floods, hurricane aftermatch, etc. Some areas are pretty bare of repeaters in which case the PLB/Inreach may be your only option. As the saying goes, 2 is 1 and 1 is none. Always a good idea to have a back up.
Colorado and Moab are both examples of places that may have poor cell service but good repeater coverage.
http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/ci_24778577/family-saved-by-ham-radio-and-good-samaritan




You aren't wrong if it's not something you will use it would be a waste of your time and money, but then again as I always say, "I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

2 is 1 and 1 is none
Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it

Those two statements are my favorite ones ever, and why I do most of the stuff to my vehicle. Even though most of the modifications I make are way past the "absolutely necessary".

I'm hearing good reason to do something, but maybe GMRS rather than Ham since I'm not as into the tech side of it?

Does GMRS still have decent emergency applications? GMRS repeaters exist as well as Ham right?

What about CB? I know its outdated technology, but I still hear a lot of people saying its the most popular option.

My biggest question is how practically useful are comms in a non-emergent scenario? How often do you guys find yourself using them?

 

[Flipper]

We travel solo. Campground and dispersed camping. I have a 2M fixed mount in the truck for out of cell range emergency and comm. Pre trip I load the repeater channels and local emergency channels for our destinations.We also have 3 of the little Baofeng handhelds we use with our backpacks and use the one in the truck for base camp. You will hear people love them and others hate them. But for $35 you cant beat them. They are also loaded with the emergency and repeater channels so if something would happen while hiking we are covered. My wife wasnt too crazy about them at first but after watching lots of survival shows ,she now gets the point. If something would happen to me she knows how to read the lon/lat on the GPS and to turn her radio to channel #1 for help. The license and test is going to cost $15 the test is not easy for the average guy. So you will have to do a little studying and there are web sites where you can practice and blow right through the exam.
The Gmrs option wasnt for us traveling solo, perfect for group overlanding but it sort of missed the mark for repeaters and emergency networks that are avaliable on 2M. The license is no studying and around $70, the price of 2 Baofeng handhelds.
A fixed mount 2M and antenna is around $200. Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood are all great radios. Just like Ford ,Chevy,Dodge. Handhelds $200-400. Baofeng $35.
As to GPS becons/ communication devices like in-reach, ACR resQlink are great , eveyones needs and applications are different. Figure out YOUR needs and take it from there.

 

[brien]

My biggest question is how practically useful are comms in a non-emergent scenario? How often do you guys find yourself using them?

I have CB, GMRS, and ham and I use at least one of them on every trip I take, especially if there are other vehicles with us on the trip. As has been stated by others in this thread, it's also a safety feature. You wouldn't head out even on an easy trail without a jack, a spare, and a medkit. I don't head out without a radio, either. You may be on an easy trail, but accidents still happen, and being able to contact people easily where there is no (or weak) cell coverage is a huge benefit. I've heard a number of situations on the local 2m repeater over the last couple of years where people became stranded on trails, or even on the side of a low-traffic highway and used their ham radio to call out for help.

I use ham radio the most, followed by GMRS, and lastly CB, which I only use if I absolutely have to.

Ham is the obvious winner as far as utility and clarity of voice. The test does take some studying, but the question pool is small enough and repetitive enough that it can be memorized with only a week or so of earnest study for about 30-45 minutes a day. Ham allows the most opportunity for contact in an emergency situation, and once you have your license you can upgrade your radio as desired/needed for even more capability. You can start off with a cheap $35 like @Flipper mentions, so for about $50 (with license test fee) you are good to go. Many places also offer FREE exams, so check your local clubs to see what test sessions are available. Use http://hamstudy.org to run through the questions and take practice exams. just read them like flashcards, don't try to understand the answers, just memorize them. The test material does very little to help you understand how radios work or how to use them, so you won't be missing out if you simply blindly memorize the answers.

Try to put a price on the safety part of it alone, is it worth ~$50 to have a robust way to communicate with the civilized world if you do end up having a real problem? I pretty regularly see people with all these expensive "tactical" survival trinkets still hemming and hawing about spending the money/time to get a ham radio and license, which is significantly more useful than a $200 "tactical" EDC flashlight.

 

[rrjones2u]

I have had a 2m ham radio in every truck I have owned for the last 15 years. It has definitely helped in situations that I needed good comms. There is such a good network of repeaters out there that you can keep in contact even you are deep in the woods.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Overland Mobile radio: Side hobby.

Communications: Absolutely Necessary

I think if you take a look at GMRS for local communications and perhaps some of the InReach/Spot type devices now have two way communication capabilities via text and e-mail, so you should be well covered for all situations you are likely to face as long as civilization hasn't totally collapsed.

HAM -- and I say this as a HAM license holder -- Is a whole separate community and hobby in addition to/on top of Overlanding but is not as useful as other modern technology for critical communication with the outside world when you are in the sticks. Even if there is a local repeater you can hit on 2M, there is no guarantee someone is listening if you need help. And if you are using high frequency (HF) there are a lot of atmospheric variables on connecting with someone and again, no one may be listening in your time of need. With a Spot or Inreach, if you are in a jam, you push a button and out come the choppers (or you use the two way feature to get the precise help you need if it's not an SOS). A vehicle rig and license will cost more than a Spot device too, just in dollars. Before these Spot-like devices developed, HAM was a good option but it's simply not the best choice anymore.

There's definitely overlap. The only time I've used my HAM while overloading is for local communications and weather reports/alerts, both of which can be done on GMRS. On the other hand, going out for a drive and chatting with folks 1000 kms away via AB's Linked Repeaters during net events is neat, and it's fun to be part of that community too.

In the event of an emergency outside of Overlanding -- like a weather event in your area or something like that -- even owning a ham radio and learning what the local repeaters are could be an asset --- you can download the repeater book app on your phone and a cheap BaoFeng. You cannot transmit without a license, but being able to listen is a great way to receive information if, in an emergency, cell towers may not be working (think of the overload post 9/11 where folks couldn't call or text). The other bonus is you may find later down the road that you want to get more in the hobby and you'll already have a bit of basic kit to learn with.

Not accounted for in the above opinion: How cool your truck looks with a couple of antennas, and how cool you feel gabbin' in the handset in the backcountry with some dude a thousand miles away. Hard to put a price on that :D

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I will also mention that WHERE you are going makes a huge difference in the availability of repeaters; I see some other posters have mentioned they have found good coverage and that theres a lot of traffic on the repeaters if they need help, but that's not the case everywhere.

For example, here's a map of repeaters in the USA (I've not verified it's accuracy). Take a look at the Panhandle of Idaho or parts of Montana (Both AMAZING overloading destinations) -- no repeaters. But other places have so many that it looks like you'll trip over them!

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=38.203654862583335,-99.19555690624998&spn=4.116014,7.03125&hl=en&msa=0&z=5&source=embed&ie=UTF8&mid=1GVfpf9Fc70qU40mINpAVPxvVPpY

Alternatively if you want to hit up the Yukon, you're gonna have a tough time hitting a repeater between cities:

From Dawson to Beaver Creek is 120 miles as the crow flies; that's through the mountains. The distance between Dawson and Carmacks is even further, also through mountains. Much less density means HAM is very limited (At least on 2M it is). The SPOT or InReach device, though, works everywhere up there.

YMMV

 

[Prerunner1982]

For example, here's a map of repeaters in the USA (I've not verified it's accuracy). Take a look at the Panhandle of Idaho or parts of Montana (Both AMAZING overloading destinations) -- no repeaters. But other places have so many that it looks like you'll trip over them!

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=38.203654862583335,-99.19555690624998&spn=4.116014,7.03125&hl=en&msa=0&z=5&source=embed&ie=UTF8&mid=1GVfpf9Fc70qU40mINpAVPxvVPpY

Im not sure what info that link is pulling from....
Your map:


Here is what I found. http://www.levinecentral.com/repeaters/google_mapping.php and www.repeaterbook.com is a good resource.
Idaho:


Montana:


Of course there are still areas with sparse coverage.

 

[Prerunner1982]

Does GMRS still have decent emergency applications? GMRS repeaters exist as well as Ham right?

Emergency.... maybe? Here is a map with GMRS repeaters. https://www.mygmrs.com/map/ I would use them more for intervehicle communications personally.

What about CB? I know its outdated technology, but I still hear a lot of people saying its the most popular option.

For off the beaten path the CB will likely do you no good except to talk to the vehicle(s) that may be travelling with you. Most CBs only get out a couple of miles so any help would have to be real close. Sure a linear amplifier could be used but for anyone to respond they would have to be running an equally powered CB. I wouldn't depend on that.

My biggest question is how practically useful are comms in a non-emergent scenario? How often do you guys find yourself using them?

I think it depends on the scenario. For you it may be rarely talking to the one other vehicle with you. Travel in a little larger packs or want to communicate between more than one group and it becomes more useful.

Carry any tools with you that you rarely use? You could look at a radio (ham or GMRS) the same way, as another tool in your bag.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Thanks for the extra info, Prerunner -- like I said, I didn't verify the map that I linked. I googled "HAM radio repeater map USA" and that's what came up. The maps you provided are much more complete; I suspect the lower 48 has a much more robust repeater network than we do up here in Canada.

Heck, even if I'm camping a few hours out of Edmonton near Abraham Lake I can have a difficult time hitting the Nordegg repeater which is only a short distance away, so we are not as lucky as the USA when it comes to coverage.

The point stands though -- ham radio as compared to the Spot or Garmin network is spotty at best in a lot of places. There are only a few regions near the poles where the Spot/InReach device won't work and there aren't any roads up that way for us to drive on!

 

[Prerunner1982]

With ham radio you can also do what is called APRS, Automatic Packet Reporting System.
Hang on, we are going to get a little nerdy here....
The gist of APRS is that you can track your vehicle, track other hams, see local repeaters (frequency, tone, and offset), you can send messages to other APRS users, send SMS Text messages to a cell phone, and send short emails.
I tracked a ham that went from South Texas to Alaska and had his APRS running the whole way. I sent him several successful messages from my APRS in my Jeep. The dashed lines are the spots where he had no digital repeater coverage so it's not a perfect system as it relies on local infrastructure to get the info to the internet. On a local basis it still works without the internet and really the inventor intended it to be a local situational awareness tool, to know what is going on around you. Seeing the info on the internet is just a bonus.
It can be a bit technical, but can be a great tool.

 

[Ben Cleveland]

I really appreciate this info. I've done a lot of reading on all of the different types of comms, but I feel like this thread is actually giving me usable info, and helping me relate the usefulness of each type of comm to our own family's needs. That's the thing that's really been bugging me, I don't feel a particular need now, and I'm aware of a general usefulness of comms, but I didn't have a good connection between the two.

Based on what I'm hearing from you guys:
CB is pointless unless I'm part of a 4x4 club or group that uses it heavily. I'm not, so I can just scratch that.

Ham has nerdy/techy AND practical emergency applications. Maybe outdated, but still very powerful. I actually love both of those things. But don't really want a new hobby just now. I love the suggestion of purchasing a cheap baofeng at some point in the next 6 months to play around with (listening only, no transmitting...I understand and am aware of FCC regulations and license requirements, no desire to break the rules), and possibly get further into down the road. I feel like if i played with it for a year or so, I would get into it, if only for the evacuation/weather scenarios with spotty cell service.

GMRS-my understanding is that it also has cross compatibility with FRS, also seems to be most useful for local comms. Is there any reason for me to get into a mobile unit vs a few handhelds as a noob who's just starting to learn, and is probably jumping ahead of his practical need at the moment?

Spot/inreach device-convinced this is a practical tool and necessary before we start our big, backcountry adventures next year. Safety is important.

 

[m_lars]

There's some good info here, thanks to those who have added to the conversation.

Figure out YOUR needs and take it from there.

I find it overwhelming when it's a new area and trying to figure out what works for ME. I get the impression the OP is feeling the same way. I have also found that some of the people "in the know" are a little bit douchey, wether they intend to be or not. I was reading through a thread on the "official Overland Bound" radio channels and there was at least one guy who was just being a dick, intentionally, about proper licensing. I get this vibe more than I feel I should.

As has been stated by others in this thread, it's also a safety feature. You wouldn't head out even on an easy trail without a jack, a spare, and a medkit. I don't head out without a radio, either.

This is an example of what I was talking about above. It comes across, to me anyway, as a little condescending. Cleary he (and I) know this and he (we) are trying to figure out what our needs are.

You cannot transmit without a license,

It is my understanding that you can transmit in the threat of harm to body or property, please correct me if that is wrong. This MAY be a good case for a HT and just have it on to listen and get the hang of it. In the event you are in an emergency, use it to call for help. Assuming there is help listening.

With ham radio you can also do what is called APRS, Automatic Packet Reporting System.

This was one thing that really piqued my interest early on when I heard it discussed on a couple of podcasts. It's a super cool idea, but it seems you need to get a fairly serious transceiver to be able to operate APRS and use it for comms simultaneously. Maybe not, but again very hard to weed through when you are brand new.

 

[Ben Cleveland]

One more thing, I've found tons of available mobile radios for 2m and CB, mostly on Amazon. Its pretty easy to pick out the cheapy models, and the name brand ones that have good ratings.

I haven't found much out there for GMRS mobile units, and I can't find any info on whether or not a specific GMRS model ALSO has FRS compatibility. What should I be looking for in terms of specs on the GMRS units? Any major brand names I should look at that are safe, and don't break the bank?

 

[rrjones2u]

You put that very well sir. I run what I know and haven't delved into GMRS, FRS, SPOT or others so I couldn't speak to that. You have made some valid points and maybe this old dog can learn some new tricks.

Overland Mobile radio: Side hobby.

Communications: Absolutely Necessary

I think if you take a look at GMRS for local communications and perhaps some of the InReach/Spot type devices now have two way communication capabilities via text and e-mail, so you should be well covered for all situations you are likely to face as long as civilization hasn't totally collapsed.

HAM -- and I say this as a HAM license holder -- Is a whole separate community and hobby in addition to/on top of Overlanding but is not as useful as other modern technology for critical communication with the outside world when you are in the sticks. Even if there is a local repeater you can hit on 2M, there is no guarantee someone is listening if you need help. And if you are using high frequency (HF) there are a lot of atmospheric variables on connecting with someone and again, no one may be listening in your time of need. With a Spot or Inreach, if you are in a jam, you push a button and out come the choppers (or you use the two way feature to get the precise help you need if it's not an SOS). A vehicle rig and license will cost more than a Spot device too, just in dollars. Before these Spot-like devices developed, HAM was a good option but it's simply not the best choice anymore.

There's definitely overlap. The only time I've used my HAM while overloading is for local communications and weather reports/alerts, both of which can be done on GMRS. On the other hand, going out for a drive and chatting with folks 1000 kms away via AB's Linked Repeaters during net events is neat, and it's fun to be part of that community too.

In the event of an emergency outside of Overlanding -- like a weather event in your area or something like that -- even owning a ham radio and learning what the local repeaters are could be an asset --- you can download the repeater book app on your phone and a cheap BaoFeng. You cannot transmit without a license, but being able to listen is a great way to receive information if, in an emergency, cell towers may not be working (think of the overload post 9/11 where folks couldn't call or text). The other bonus is you may find later down the road that you want to get more in the hobby and you'll already have a bit of basic kit to learn with.

Not accounted for in the above opinion: How cool your truck looks with a couple of antennas, and how cool you feel gabbin' in the handset in the backcountry with some dude a thousand miles away. Hard to put a price on that :D

 

[Ben Cleveland]

There's some good info here, thanks to those who have added to the conversation.

I find it overwhelming when it's a new area and trying to figure out what works for ME. I get the impression the OP is feeling the same way. I have also found that some of the people "in the know" are a little bit douchey, wether they intend to be or not. I was reading through a thread on the "official Overland Bound" radio channels and there was at least one guy who was just being a dick, intentionally, about proper licensing. I get this vibe more than I feel I should.

This is an example of what I was talking about above. It comes across, to me anyway, as a little condescending. Cleary he (and I) know this and he (we) are trying to figure out what our needs are.

It is my understanding that you can transmit in the threat of harm to body or property, please correct me if that is wrong. This MAY be a good case for a HT and just have it on to listen and get the hang of it. In the event you are in an emergency, use it to call for help. Assuming there is help listening.

This was one thing that really piqued my interest early on when I heard it discussed on a couple of podcasts. It's a super cool idea, but it seems you need to get a fairly serious transceiver to be able to operate APRS and use it for comms simultaneously. Maybe not, but again very hard to weed through when you are brand new.

2 points:
1) yes, you're correct lol. Comms are an overwhelming subject to me. Always interested in learning more, but this is a subject I've honestly avoided up to now. Hence the thread. Just hoping to wade through the initial barrier of info.

2) I agree with you on the elitist attitude to a point. Its totally a thing with hams. However, I understand and actually appreciate the attitude to an extent. Ham license holders are a dying breed, and they have a hobby that's got a difficult entry point, and is somewhat underappreciated. People who don't follow the rules threaten to bring the whole thing down, and I don't blame Hams for beating that horse a bit when talking to newbies who don't know much. No different than any one of us telling someone who's never camped before exactly how important it is to tread lightly, and care for the natural environments we are enjoying.