Overlanding and DMR/D-Star/etc.?

[Ubiety]

I have been trying to learn enough about DMR to see if it is something I want to add to my remote comm bag of tricks. So far I am coming up with no. It seems that the radios need to be programmed ahead of time to work in different regions and require a hotspot/repeater to talk to. Many people use internet connected DMR hotspots in their home to communicate with (via their radio) or rely upon the local repeater to get into the system.

I don't see much of a place for this in remote overlanding where there are certainly not going to be any repeaters to access. I could imagine a caravan of overlanders using a DMR hotspot for group communications but this suffers from a single point of failure - DMR hotspot rig goes out of reception/view and comms are down for everybody. At least with oldey-timey analog ham radios one rig may drop out but not all.

What am I missing?

 

[Prerunner1982]

For rig to rig simplex comms you shouldn't need a hotspot....bigger issue would be trying to get everyone in your group on dmr. And as you mentioned programming. I ageee that it's not really relevant to overlanding.

 

[J.W.]

The only limiting factor is internet. I use my cell phone as a WiFi hotspot when traveling and connect my Pi-Spot to the internet via my cell phone WiFi. Once online, all the digital modes will work just like they do when you are at home. The little Pi-Spot I bought will do Fusion / DMR / DSTAR and their various derivatives like WiresX etc. I control the setup with my phone or tablet and the Pi-Spot can be powered either by the USB port in my truck or a small rechargeable battery pack I have. There is no real need to have the web interface open on the phone/tablet but I like to have it so I can see the list of who is talking and confirm QSOs Easily.

Looking over what I typed, it reads more complicated than it really is. Basically 3 things: radio, hotspot, and phone/tablet. It’s pretty neat to be able to talk to people all over the world from pretty much anywhere. Here is my mobile DMR/YSF setup Using my FT-70D:

 

[Ubiety]

For rig to rig simplex comms you shouldn't need a hotspot....bigger issue would be trying to get everyone in your group on dmr. And as you mentioned programming. I ageee that it's not really relevant to overlanding.

Thanks! Kind of what I figured. Agreed on getting folks to upgrade etc, its hard enough keeping simple radios charged, etc.

 

[Ubiety]

The only limiting factor is internet. I use my cell phone as a WiFi hotspot when traveling and connect my Pi-Spot to the internet via my cell phone WiFi. Once online, all the digital modes will work just like they do when you are at home. The little Pi-Spot I bought will do Fusion / DMR / DSTAR and their various derivatives like WiresX etc. I control the setup with my phone or tablet and the Pi-Spot can be powered either by the USB port in my truck or a small rechargeable battery pack I have. There is no real need to have the web interface open on the phone/tablet but I like to have it so I can see the list of who is talking and confirm QSOs Easily.

Looking over what I typed, it reads more complicated than it really is. Basically 3 things: radio, hotspot, and phone/tablet. It’s pretty neat to be able to talk to people all over the world from pretty much anywhere. Here is my mobile DMR/YSF setup Using my FT-70D:

Thanks for the description! Kind of fits with what I have been piecing together.

 

[J.W.]

I don’t see it as being very practical for trail comms but it is another option for keeping in contact with a large group of people over long distances. Since it requires very little power, I think it could be useful in certain situations but @Prerunner1982 is right, it seems overly complicated for doing trail comms when simplex is likely sufficient.

 

[Ubiety]

Thanks @J.W. ! I almost bought the Anytone 878 this weekend to have another APRS capable radio and had to wonder what this DMR thing is.
Have a great week!

 

[Sparksalot]

I've been kinda following the DMR thing for a while. I haven't been convinced its something I need at the local level. Add in the non-agile tuning, and it really doesn't make sense.

 

[J.W.]

DMR is certainly not essential. It’s basically the Dark Web of Ham Radio. And it’s not really geared for emergency communications, it’s more of a social avenue for Ham operators. And it is a good way to get information and learn about new trends in Ham radio. I equate it to the early days of IRC. Chat “rooms“ are set up based on topics or interests and people can connect to those rooms from anywhere in the world. The rooms can then be linked to almost any other digital mode (YSF/DStar) or to physical repeaters for traditional RF access. Other than determining a single frequency for accessing a hotspot or repeater, no tuning is needed.

From the standpoint of the hobby DMR can be a lot of fun, and it is very inexpensive. You can be on DMR all-in for under $200. That being said, the learning curve can be a bit steep and like everything else with amateur radio, it takes patience to learn all the details needed to make it work.

 

[RockyMountaineer]

Digital modes offer some advantages and disadvantages. But the internet, repeaters, nor hotspots are not required to make them work. Also DMR (or any other digital radio currently on the market) radios do not have to work in a digital mode, they are capable of analog operation. With that being said lets talk about why one might or might not want to us digital (or any flavor). First off for general trail use (mostly simplex comms) digital really doesn't offer many advantages. Where digital really shines is when using repeaters. Digital modes offer some very unique and cool features when they have infrastructure to work on. Things like repeater linking and nodes (aka chat room) are two of the biggest ones. Then of course there is the trusty old APRS stuff. For convey travel that is an insanely useful tool with position tracking and text messaging capabilities. As such it is the digital mode most relevant to overlanding. With all that being said is DMR really something useful to you? I don't know that is something only you can answer. But I will say this, were I to purchase and new radio today, it would be something capable to digital operation. Options are good and the price difference is marginal at best.

 

[Ubiety]

Excellent replys all!

@RockyMountaineer brings up a really great point - APRS for convoy management - which is what currently has my attention. Anybody out there using APRS to for "intra convoy" communication while overlanding? Viewing each other on the map real time? Text messaging each other? Creating virtual objects to aid in navigation?

This stuff is exciting ;)

 

[M Rose]

Excellent replys all!

@RockyMountaineer brings up a really great point - APRS for convoy management - which is what currently has my attention. Anybody out there using APRS to for "intra convoy" communication while overlanding? Viewing each other on the map real time? Text messaging each other? Creating virtual objects to aid in navigation?

This stuff is exciting ;)

I know @Sandpoint Steve does this, and once I get my system going I will be as well.

 

[JeepGuy91]

Digital modes offer some advantages and disadvantages. But the internet, repeaters, nor hotspots are not required to make them work. Also DMR (or any other digital radio currently on the market) radios do not have to work in a digital mode, they are capable of analog operation. With that being said lets talk about why one might or might not want to us digital (or any flavor). First off for general trail use (mostly simplex comms) digital really doesn't offer many advantages. Where digital really shines is when using repeaters. Digital modes offer some very unique and cool features when they have infrastructure to work on. Things like repeater linking and nodes (aka chat room) are two of the biggest ones. Then of course there is the trusty old APRS stuff. For convey travel that is an insanely useful tool with position tracking and text messaging capabilities. As such it is the digital mode most relevant to overlanding. With all that being said is DMR really something useful to you? I don't know that is something only you can answer. But I will say this, were I to purchase and new radio today, it would be something capable to digital operation. Options are good and the price difference is marginal at best.

I don't know about DMR or D-STAR, but on Fusion, you can use the "Group Monitor" feature for keeping in contact with a convoy or other group. It will send out periodic inaudible data bursts and will get inaudible replies from other users that are in range. It then displays the call signs of people that are in range. (It does work similarly to APRS in that regard.) It also allows you to send text messages to users in range.

 

[LEXIRNR]

I’m trying to learn more about digital and possible get either a DMR or Fusion radio. The Fusion rooms concept is neat to have for a group going out. The group monitor system works independently of a node? I was thinking someone could run a mobile mode but I think they require internet right?

Also, our little group has started using APRS in a convoy to monitor positions. Not everyone we go with is licensed but we run minimum the lead and last rig must have APRS and ham radio. Our theory is as long as we can see the front and rear of the convoy we should be ok. We just use Baofeng UV5Rs and APRSdroid running on old phones for now and they work fine.

 

[RockyMountaineer]

I’m trying to learn more about digital and possible get either a DMR or Fusion radio. The Fusion rooms concept is neat to have for a group going out. The group monitor system works independently of a node? I was thinking someone could run a mobile mode but I think they require internet right?

Also, our little group has started using APRS in a convoy to monitor positions. Not everyone we go with is licensed but we run minimum the lead and last rig must have APRS and ham radio. Our theory is as long as we can see the front and rear of the convoy we should be ok. We just use Baofeng UV5Rs and APRSdroid running on old phones for now and they work fine.

Here is the reality of digital modes to really take full advantage of them you need at least a repeater. Running digital telephone in simplex operation you the advantages are minimal. Now digital modes for data is a different story entirely as highlighted by APRS.

 

[LEXIRNR]

I’m trying to learn more about digital and possible get either a DMR or Fusion radio. The Fusion rooms concept is neat to have for a group going out. The group monitor system works independently of a node? I was thinking someone could run a mobile mode but I think they require internet right?

Also, our little group has started using APRS in a convoy to monitor positions. Not everyone we go with is licensed but we run minimum the lead and last rig must have APRS and ham radio. Our theory is as long as we can see the front and rear of the convoy we should be ok. We just use Baofeng UV5Rs and APRSdroid running on old phones for now and they work fine.

Here is the reality of digital modes to really take full advantage of them you need at least a repeater. Running digital telephone in simplex operation you the advantages are minimal. Now digital modes for data is a different story entirely as highlighted by APRS.

Ok that does make total sense. We can just pick a simplex FM analog frequency and it’s basically the same thing. The APRS has been really useful so we will probably stick with our current setup. We are trying to get more and more people licensed strictly for the location tracking and being able to all use the same frequency. Getting everybody on the same digital platform seems challenging

 

[JeepGuy91]

I’m trying to learn more about digital and possible get either a DMR or Fusion radio. The Fusion rooms concept is neat to have for a group going out. The group monitor system works independently of a node? I was thinking someone could run a mobile mode but I think they require internet right?

Also, our little group has started using APRS in a convoy to monitor positions. Not everyone we go with is licensed but we run minimum the lead and last rig must have APRS and ham radio. Our theory is as long as we can see the front and rear of the convoy we should be ok. We just use Baofeng UV5Rs and APRSdroid running on old phones for now and they work fine.

If you're going out on trail runs, a Wires-X room probably isn't your best option since you absolutely WILL need internet. That said, you can use fusion in a simplex mode with Group Monitor to see who all is in range of you. It will essentially work in a manner similar to how you are having the lead and tail "gunners" using APRS. If they both have Group Monitor going, they'll know if they're in range of each other. It won't map the way APRS does, but it will show distance and bearing as the crow flies.

 

[LEXIRNR]

I’m trying to learn more about digital and possible get either a DMR or Fusion radio. The Fusion rooms concept is neat to have for a group going out. The group monitor system works independently of a node? I was thinking someone could run a mobile mode but I think they require internet right?

Also, our little group has started using APRS in a convoy to monitor positions. Not everyone we go with is licensed but we run minimum the lead and last rig must have APRS and ham radio. Our theory is as long as we can see the front and rear of the convoy we should be ok. We just use Baofeng UV5Rs and APRSdroid running on old phones for now and they work fine.

If you're going out on trail runs, a Wires-X room probably isn't your best option since you absolutely WILL need internet. That said, you can use fusion in a simplex mode with Group Monitor to see who all is in range of you. It will essentially work in a manner similar to how you are having the lead and tail "gunners" using APRS. If they both have Group Monitor going, they'll know if they're in range of each other. It won't map the way APRS does, but it will show distance and bearing as the crow flies.

That is exactly what I was looking for. I’m just starting to learn about digital modes. That combined with APRS should be a good setup. I figured wires-x required internet.

 

[JeepGuy91]

That is exactly what I was looking for. I’m just starting to learn about digital modes. That combined with APRS should be a good setup. I figured wires-x required internet.

I learned a lot by watching YouTube videos by Ham Radio Concepts and Ham Radio Crash Course, among others. Those are two of the more informative channels though.

 

[LEXIRNR]

That is exactly what I was looking for. I’m just starting to learn about digital modes. That combined with APRS should be a good setup. I figured wires-x required internet.

I learned a lot by watching YouTube videos by Ham Radio Concepts and Ham Radio Crash Course, among others. Those are two of the more informative channels though.

My buddy just got me on Ham Radio Crash Course. Thanks for the info I will check out that other channel too!