Overland Rig Wants Vs. Needs

[Joey83]

What I want and what I need is a comfy and reliable vehicle that will take me where I want to go.

 

[jscusmcvet]

Hi my name is John and I struggle with "uprgaditis".
Up until recently I have been a jeep guy my whole life, owning a couple cherokees, a wagoneer, a scrambler, a TJ rubicon and an LJ rubicon. In every case Upgraditis struck. Pinnacle of this for me was my TJ rubicon, running on a 3.5" full suspension rebuild, 35's, fully skid plated, belly up, winch, you name it. I could not get enough. Now we had a great time on trails all over the southeast in that rig and it did what it was designed to. I rockcrawled with the best of rigs. That is when I noticed that.. hey... everyone seems to be going to 37's... Why is that.. how much is THIS going to cost me?

And I bailed. Went back to 33's, stopped trying to look for the baddest of obstacles and started focusing on the trail time and camping more. When I got the LJ Rubicon, things stayed more mild , intentionally. I battled my "upgraditis" daily and with every new modification I read about. We started camping more as a family, went through a couple variations of campers and then...
We took a close look at Four Wheel Campers at Expo East in 2016. Wow. All we needed and it fit in the back of my... uh.... jeep... uh.... not so much. 7 months later, perusing CL I came across the camper you see in my avatar, a 2008 Northstart MC600. We jumped on it as it was a smokin deal. Brought it home in my wifes DC Tacoma Prerunner. I sold the LJ, picked up my current rig, a 2003 Tundra, also for a smokin deal.

I am happy to say the upgraditis is under control. I have upgraded tires, added skid plates, added timbren bump stops for helping handle the weight of the camper... and that is it. Loving it and still have the capability to do my regular trails.

As with most chronic syndromes... Upgraditis never really goes away however...

I would like to:

• Add a small lift (this is my ego talking)
• Upgrade front bumper for winch mount (Toyota aftermarket parts are stupid expensive) and winch
• Complete skid plating (trans and xfer case)

The struggle is real. Need vs. want is the first step.

 

[Joey83]

That's the great thing about having a vehicle with zero overlanding/aftermarket support in my case ;) cool story.

 

[DVC]

My list of "want" is as long as my leg and always changing, but that says more about me as a person than anything else. The "needs" list is much shorter: good tires, real 4WD, and experience....

Well, since it seems this thread is now fully back from the dead, I'll add my own note of appreciation for some of the great, helpful posts - including the one above, and the one from John a few hours ago.

I suffer from upgrade-itis as well, although I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. I'm new to overlanding, but in messing around with race cars in the past, I've found that the trick is to understand what you're chasing after, and to be realistic about your goals with a particular platform.

Since overlanding isn't "competitive", it's a bit different, but I think a lot of the same mindset applies. For example, it probably doesn't make sense to try to turn my new full size pickup into a rock crawler...Any more than it would to try turning a 2-door Jeep into a cross country hauler/tow vehicle. But that said, I love that the general ethos of this forum and its membership is that it doesn't matter what you drive...all are welcome, and everyone is supportive of each other's rigs, build plans, and overlanding goals. This really helps abate the evil cousin of upgrade-itis: the 'mine-isn't-good-enough' syndrome.

To that end, I have found myself contemplating a bunch of upgrades to my 2 month old Ram 1500 Rebel, but at the same time second guessing myself as to whether this truck is the right platform to commit to long term for significant investment in overlanding mods. I love the truck, but being new to this, and spending a bunch of time checking out threads on the forums, my eyes have started to glaze over with all the awesome rigs people have that are so capable and bad ass looking...I have to keep reminding myself what my specific goals are with my truck, and to focus on making the most of what I've got rather than wondering if I'd have been better off with something else. (e.g. my truck has a 3.92 rear, and both high and low locking 4wd, but it's got an LSD as opposed to a full locking rear diff.)

Living in the Northeast, I don't have as much great local overlanding as you lucky folks out West, and many of the trails around here are kinda tight and rocky/technical. But I'm sure there's still plenty of fun to be had (hopefully without beating up the truck!) Being that my Rebel will wear many hats - comfortable daily driver, practical kid hauler, race car tow vehicle, and off road weekend warrior - I need to be realistic about mods so that I don't start sacrificing its capabilities with any of the above.

So in keeping with the wisdom in this thread, I am prioritizing mods that make the most sense holistically first. To start with, I'm getting an onboard air compressor, a bed rack, and RTT because they're great for overlanding, but will also come in very handy at the track. After that, I'll move on to...

Tires - I'm getting 35" DuraTracs because they're great off road, but they're also better in snow for regular winter driving than what I have now... and at 2" bigger than my current tires, I'll get another inch of lift, and they'll make the truck ride even better over crappy potholed NJ roads.

Protection - The truck came with a bunch of OEM skid plates, so I think I'm covered there. I'm planning to get a set of WhiteKnuckle rock sliders, which will protect the truck, but they also stick out enough to serve as good side steps.

Lights - I'm going to skip the dedicated light bars, and just upgrade the OEM low beam bulbs to 55w HIDs.

Recovery - I'll also get a few items of recovery equipment, like MaxTrax and a Hi-Lift Jack (with some mounts for the bed rack). A winch may be in my future, but not right away.

Electronics - I'm planning on a CB (mostly just because I've always wanted one), with an antenna mount on the bed rack. I'm sure there will be other stuff down the road...

Suspension - I've been back and forth on this... The truck comes with an air ride system, which is very comfortable around town, and practical for towing...but apparently it inhibits articulation somewhat for serious off roading. I'm considering swapping out the air ride system out for Thuren-tuned King coil overs, but it's a tough decision as that's a very big commitment, and I'm inclined to see how it goes with the air ride for a while first.

So that's my take on mods for my Rebel...
I'm interested in thoughts from those who've been down the road a bunch - both in terms of whether my Rebel (without a true locking rear diff) will be a good platform to build on, and if the mods list sounds like it's on target.

 

[Jmanshovelnhand]

I've built more than a couple of rigs over the years. So, in my humble opinion a very mild lift is all you need in order to travel on 99% of all two track trails in North America. I've never lifted a vehicle any more than what would void any factory warranties, in other words, no more than 2.5"s Once you go higher than that, you may as well open up your wallet and understand it'll cost you upwards of a thousand dollars an inch, and that's just to get the geometry corrected. Then as a lot of folks would agree, TIRES.. What will you be doing? Hard core recreational off road, overlanding, or a little or a lot of both? The size of your tires should match your drivetrain. I'd love to run 315s but that would entail spending a pile of money re-gearing to at least 4:88s. So, to mate well with my 4:11s, I stick with 285s, Whatever tire you choose, don't cheap out and do your research.

Thank you for the post. I agree with a 2.5" lift being fine and picking the best tire for what I'll be doing. I am still running the OEM axles on my TJ Dana 35 in front and Dana 30 in rear (4.10 gears) and 31 x 10.5 tires. when should I drop the money to upgrade my axles? when I can afford it? when I want to go larger tires? or wait until I break something? thank you again for your time.

 

[jscusmcvet]

Thank you for the post. I agree with a 2.5" lift being fine and picking the best tire for what I'll be doing. I am still running the OEM axles on my TJ Dana 35 in front and Dana 30 in rear (4.10 gears) and 31 x 10.5 tires. when should I drop the money to upgrade my axles? when I can afford it? when I want to go larger tires? or wait until I break something? thank you again for your time.

D35 in t he rear, D30 in front I believe.

 

[Jmanshovelnhand]

Good catch. I reversed them. Thank you for the correction.

 

[MOAK]

Hmmm, if memory serves me correct if you have 4:10 gears with the 30s and 35s that means you have the 2.5 four cylinder engine. Upgrading axles? If you are a finesse driver then your stock axles will outlast your jeep. as long as you don't go any larger than 31" tires.
If you're beatin on em, breaking traction and grabbing all the time, etc etc, then ya, you'll snap em eventually. I'm assuming you don't have lockers, as another good way to snap em is to have the rear locker engaged while on hard surface when cornering..
Seriously though, I had a TJ long ago with the dana 30 and 35, 4;10s, 2.5 ltr engine, on 31's and no problems. I wanted bigger and stronger so I just got a Rubicon instead of sinking money into axle upgrades. Be happy with the platform you have, treat it well, and it will be happy with you.

 

[Jmanshovelnhand]

Great information thanks. My 2.4 died so I bought a 2004 tj out of the salvage yard and swapped 4.0 engine, transmission, drive shafts, wire harness and dashboard. I am running a cold air intake, flex a lite electric fan and 1” body lift. Working to get required set up to hopefully join a jeep club without spending money and then upgrading the same item later. Thank you for your time.

J

 

[jscusmcvet]

I ran a Dana 35 in my 2001 Cherokee with a rear locker, chromo shafts and a Ruff Stuff diff cover on 31's and 33's with no issue. As Moak mentioned, it is all about driving your rig appropriately to how you have built it.

 

[Plisken]

For me it seems that all one really needs are the following items:
1. Appropriate first aid kit (includes map and compass)
2. Vehicle specific recovery kit (including tire repair)
3. Camping gear (relative term depending on personal tolerances)

Everything beyond that is a want. That said, I want to go farther out of bounds, deeper into the desert, farther up the mountain, etc. too and to do that requires more gear. It isn't required to get out though. You can roll a stock 4x4/AWD vehicle with some clearance a lot of amazing places and hike on foot to see the sights you can't drive to.

 

[jscusmcvet]

For me it seems that all one really needs are the following items:
1. Appropriate first aid kit (includes map and compass)
2. Vehicle specific recovery kit (including tire repair)
3. Camping gear (relative term depending on personal tolerances)

Everything beyond that is a want. That said, I want to go farther out of bounds, deeper into the desert, farther up the mountain, etc. too and to do that requires more gear. It isn't required to get out though. You can roll a stock 4x4/AWD vehicle with some clearance a lot of amazing places and hike on foot to see the sights you can't drive to.

Well said

 

[bionicman]

i want tracks...
http://www.americantracktruck.com/

i need food, water, shelter

 

[ScottinAZ]

The first upgrade I did was upgrade the brakes. I see too many "killer rigs" with upgraded tires/suspension/armor with stock brakes sliding down obstacles pushing the limit of the brakes with larger tires and maxed out loads.

 

[Linda Lewis]

I’ve been reading everyone’s comments and have learned a lot, I’ve got a jeep Jk Rubicon which like you said was very capable, I added a winch because I got way out on a service road and wondered what would happen if I got hung up. So I’m up to a 3.5 “ AEV lift with stock size 10 ply aggressive tire, I feel like this is pretty much all I need to do what I plan on doing, seeing the country and camping.

 

[Leclerc.27]

Great article to come across as someone new to the game. The 'want' vs 'need' is something that plays heavily into all of my decisions thus far (guided by wallet thickness as well). Lots of cool stuff, but it's nice to hear what the first steps would be from different people and be able to read a general consensus. Got my RRO lift in, gonna have to see what clearance I gain for the tire selection. I'm on 265/60/R18s, but would like to go a little big bigger on aspect - not sure if rubbing will be an issue as they currently fit the wheel well pretty closely. Thanks!

 

[Rover2042]

Great article, it definitely has me thinking on what i've done over the years to what I should really be focusing on now.

 

[ivan shabelev]

Hey guys getting into the overland scene and just researching and reading up on all the info and advice you guys are giving out. Just got me a JKU-Rubicon and the first thing I did was add a front bumper and 10,000lb winch. I also was looking into getting me a 3.5-4" lift but I'm digging the 2.5" with some 33"s or maybe some 35"s. What would you recommend on this and if you all have had experience with either your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jose

If what you'll do is more over landing I highly recommend you to stay with max 2.5''. and some good 33'' tires. 35'' are good but then as you add more weight from racks and other accessories, you will find also that your brakes are not longer enough to stop the car on safe distance. Also being a a bigger and heavier tire will cause extra stress on some other components that will impact the vehicle reliability. My recommendation get Old Man Emu (OME) 2'' kit Heavy to Medium Duty, with the extra weight of the winch and bumpers will set you at 2.5'' and fully loaded at 2''. I can speak for the MOPAR (fox) set up but it looks more for dessert running and off road racing than overlanding. I had OME on my Nissan Patrol GQ back in my home country and never had issues with it, and planing to go the same way with my JK Rubicon.

 

[Eagle Six]

Good info, keeps me focused on what I need to do first

 

[Firemom]

My list of "want" is as long as my leg and always changing, but that says more about me as a person than anything else. The "needs" list is much shorter: good tires, real 4WD, and experience.

Looking at upgrades, I break it down into two categories: Optional upgrades, and opportunistic upgrades. The fact is that you can overland in any vehicle, it's just a matter of planning your trip around the vehicle you have. If you have a stock Subaru Outback you will do different route planning than a built Toyota Land Cruiser. If you have a 250 mile range and no ability to carry fuel, you will take that into consideration and plan differently than the Ford Excursion with a 400+ mile range.

An optional upgrade is when the part/system being replaced or upgraded is currently working fine, but you are wanting something more that it currently is not providing. A lift kit is an example of this, if the suspension isn't currently broken there is really no need to replace it with upgraded parts, you are doing it because you want to.

An opportunistic upgrade is where the part must be replaced because of a failure and the owner installs an upgraded part rather than another OEM component. An example here would be an alternator failing and being replaced with a high-output waterproof alternator.

I look at my vehicle as a Swiss Army knife. It is my rock cralwer, overlander, daily driver, motorcycle tow rig, and does the Costco/Home Depot/IKEA run. That means my build will make sacrifices in one area to serve another. Lots of my mods have been optional, a few have been opportunistic.

The next step is prioritizing where the money gets spent. Opportunistic upgrades are a little easier to swallow because you would have to get the OEM part anyway, so you are only really "spending" the difference between the stock part and the upgrade. In some cases the upgrade ends up being cheaper than the OEM. I had this happen with my XTerra; the OEM rear drive shaft uses a traditional U-joint at the transfer case and a CV joint at the diff. When the CV joint failed I was given the option of replacing it with an OEM drive shaft or getting a custom drive shaft with serviceable U-joints custom built for $20 less.

This is already long-winded, so here is my list of optional upgrades in order of priority (more or less).

• Tires. The best rig in the world will be SOL without good rubber. Look for something with the right tread, compound, and carcass for your environment. I went with the BF Goodrich TA KO and later the KO2 for durability and puncture resistance.
• Rock Sliders. Being able to drive through with more confidence and not worry about expensive panel damage opened up a lot of trails.
• Upgraded Skid Plates. My vehicle had light-duty skid plates from the factory. I upgraded them to protect the vital oily bits under the chassis. Most vehicles these days use aluminum casings for engines, transmissions, and transfer cases; smack one just the wrong way and it will crack and leave you stranded. I also added a diff guard to the rear differential.
• Lift Kit: I waited and saved to do my lift kit. I don't recommend spacer kits, they can actually reduce suspension performance and even result in damage. My kit involved new shocks all around, new front springs, a rear add-a-leaf (my rear end was sagging), and new upper control arms. Yes, it is pretty involved, but it's the right way to do it. Later I replaced the add-a-leaf with custom made springs from Alcan.
• Rear bumper. A lot of people say to do a front bumper right away to protect the engine from impacts with livestock and wildlife. While that is a concern, I opted to go with a rear bumper for added utility. This allowed me to carry a high-lift jack, my CB antenna, and to step up to two spare tires. That original bumper was later upgraded to one with an built in carrier for two NATO cans.
• Roof rack. It just makes it easier to carry "overflow" gear that won't fit inside or wet and dirty junk you'd rather not have inside the rig.
• Front bumper. Added clearance and front end protection.
  
• Lighting. Upgraded to LED off road light pods in the front, more are planned as utility lights for around camp and dust-lights.
• +5 HP sticker - because I liked watching my mechanic and friends facepalm when they saw it on the intake.

Non-mechanical upgrades include things like a cell phone mount, GPS mount, ham radio, CB radio, red LED dome lights (to preserve your vision when you open the door at night to get stuff) and an overhead work light recessed into the lift gate.

Opportunistic upgrades: U-joints with zerk points, heavy duty lower control arms with zerk points on the ball joints, upgraded rear drive shaft, upgraded clutch, heavy duty battery, and brake pads and rotors.

Reducing Breakage

Preventative maintenance is key, inspect your vehicle regularly and have a mechanic to give it a second look. I could do my own oil changes, but I take it to a local shop because I like the peace of mind that someone else has inspected the vehicle.

• Oil changes. I don't care what the manual says, I do 3,000 miles or three months with synthetic blend. I use blend because I can top-up with conventional, blend, or synthetic if I'm out in the boonies. Off roading is hard on a motor and oil looses its ability to lubricate as it ages.
• Air filter. Don't use K&N or other oiled filters, they are a high-flow system designed for racing, that means that they are more "open" and let through more crap. I've tried running them in the past and found all kinds of oily dirt and dust on the wrong side of the airbox. They also have a tendency to foul up the mass airflow sensor in the intake. Stick with paper filters and keep a spare in the vehicle.
• Lube the chassis. When at all possible, add parts with zerk points. Most modern rigs don't come with these from the factory because each one saves the manufacturer a quarter of a cent or something. Lubricate the chassis regularly to push dirt, water, and grime out of critical joints.
• Maintain seals and gaskets. Especially on fuse boxes and other electrical parts, make sure dust and moisture stays out.

Most importantly: Pay attention to your vehicle; If you notice even a hint of an odd noise, vibration, or harshness address it immediately. This will help keep the vehicle in good working order so you don't have a catastrophic failure on the trail. When in doubt, swap the part out; if it still has some life left in it, toss it in the spares bin for emergencies.

This will help prevent wear and tear, but not abuse. Proper technique and good judgement are your best assets. The most common cause of breakages I see is due to over application of the skinny pedal. The rule of thumb is "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary". Look ahead and plan your line, get out and scout the trail to make sure you won't damage anything - and don't be afraid to detour or change your plans if the road conditions are too much to handle comfortably.

Repairs

My tool kit isn't super extensive, but it is enough to get me out of most things I will encounter. A basic socket set, pliers, screwdrivers, vice grips, and other basic hand tools. Spare fuses, a spare belt, spare bulbs, lots of zip ties, JB weld, ratchet straps (seriously, I've seen sheered u-bolts replaced with ratchet straps so a vehicle could limp back to pavement. I've even seen someone use a tree branch and a ratchet strap to suspend a motor when a motor mount broke.) gorilla tape, teflon tape, and spare bottles of all the fluids. For longer trips I also throw in my breaker bar and torque wrench.

Most OEM jacks are garbage and may not even reach a lifted vehicle anymore, I added an upgraded bottle jack to the kit.

Awesome Post with great information