Cancelled Old-School Vehicle Overlanding Trip - Running the WA Backcountry Discovery Route

[armyRN]

EDIT: Unfortunately, this trip is being cancelled due to lack of participants (this COVID-19 thing is totally screwing things up). Thank-you to those who initially were contemplating going. We'll try and Old-School Vehicle Overlanding Trip next year sometime when things have settled down.

I can't predict how this COVID-19 virus thing is going to play out come September, but we need something to look forward to! I know some of us were planning on attending the Northwest Overland Rally 3 - 6 September up near Leavenworth, WA, but it has been cancelled. Here's what I'm planning for us to do instead:

We will take six days (6 - 11 September) to take "Old-School" vehicles on the 600 mile (+/-) WA Backcountry Discovery Route (WABDR) from Stevenson WA (on the WA/OR border) to the Canadian border at Nighthawk . More info in following posts to define "Old-School" vehicles, but figure if your vehicle was made from the 1940's to the early 1980's (with some exceptions), your vehicle is considered "Old-School". If your vehicle came from the factory with solid axles front & rear, and a carbureted engine, you're vehicle is probably considered "Old-School". If your vehicle came from the factory with an independent front axle, factory fuel injection, or an OBD-II port... sorry; you're not "Old School". VW bugs properly set-up are considered "Old-School" (because they're cool, at it would be fun to see how well they do).

This is also not a "Beater" run; "Old-School" vehicles are expected to be safe and in good running order (more details in following posts). "Old-School" vehicles do not have to be stock; they can be modified (suspension swaps, engine swaps, axle swaps, fuel injection added, etc.).

Those who have vehicles that do not qualify as "Old-School" can still come as a support vehicle (we're not trying to leave anyone out). Support vehicles will have additional duties such as any needed parts runs, towing disabled vehicles to the nearest paved drop-off point, etc. (hopefully none of those services will be required of you, but be willing and prepared). Send me a PM if you're interested as coming as a support vehicle; please do not register on this Rally Point as a support vehicle.

Once you've registered, it would be great if you posted a picture on this thread and told us a little about your "Old-School" vehicle, and maybe a little about yourself. Same with those planning on coming as a support vehicle - tell us a little about your self and your vehicle.

Required vehicle equipment, do's & don'ts, etc. will be in following posts. Please read, and check-back often for updates.

 

[armyRN]

I enjoy overlanding. I enjoy the camping and such. And I enjoy having a well set-up vehicle with PS, PB, heat and air, fuel injection, radio/CD player, etc. I've got a nicely set-up Jeep TJ that'll pretty much go anywhere, and a trailer to take what won't fit in the TJ.

But I dunno; maybe I'm tired of all the modern, well-equipped vehicles. All you see in the magazines are built (with a long laundry list of added-on accessories) Toyota Tacoma's, 4-Runnners, JKUs, new Jeep and Chevy trucks, etc. Don't get me wrong - they're nice, but... I dunno; they just seems so... vanilla.

How about doing some overlanding with something older? I'm not talking 1996 old (my Dodge truck is a 96); I'm talking pre-1990's. Vehicles from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's... maybe even early/mid 80's. Things like old Willys, Scouts, Bronco's, Blazers, Jeeps, Land Cruisers, Land Rovers; vehicles like that. That's what this trip is about.

And how about we run the Washington Backcountry Discovery Route:

Washington Backcountry Discovery Route (WABDR) Map & Information

This 575-mile route thoroughly explores the Cascade Mountains beginning in Stevenson, WA and making it to the Canadian border at Night Hawk.

ridebdr.com

I'm planning on taking my 1946 Willys Jeep CJ2A. It is moderately modified, but still has that "Old-School" flavor. It looks better the further away you are from it.

 

[armyRN]

So what qualifies as an "Old-School" 4x4 vehicle? You've gotta draw the line somewhere (and I'm not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings), but here goes:

Any Jeep CJ is Old School (CJs went up to 85 or 86; I know the Jeep YJ came out in 1987 [a YJ is NOT Old School]). Included are CJ2, CJ2A, CJ3A, CJ3B, CJ5, CJ6, CJ7, CJ8, MA, MB, M38, M38A1, and other military variants of the CJ-series Jeep.

Jeep Wagoneer 1963 - 1991; lets include those too (the earlier years the better). And lets not forget the Jeep full-sized trucks 1962 - 1988.

Dodge Ram Chargers, which went from 1974 to 1993 (we'll include them all since you don't see that many).

Classic Ford Broncos 1966 - 1977; I'll even include the 2nd generation Bronco 1978 - 1979, and 3rd generation (up to 1986).

Chevy K5 Blazers are Old School (first generation 1969 - 1972, or early second generation 1973 to we'll say mid-80's - pre factory fuel injection). And the earlier Suburbans (pre-factory fuel injection).

Pick-up trucks based on the same generation as the Jeep/Dodge/Ford/Chevy vehicles listed above.

Old Toyota Land Cruisers (FJ40 types) & old Toyota trucks with solid axles front & rear and carbureted engines from the factory (can be modified).

Any International Scout 4WD vehicle.

The older Land Rover Discovery-type vehicles (think African Safari-type Land Rovers).

As mentioned previously, if it came from the factory with solid axles front & rear, and a carbureted engine, it is probably "Old-School". Doesn't still have to be that way to still be considered "Old-School" though.

We'll even include VW Bugs (usually set up as a "Baja Bug") even though they're 2WD.

If you're not sure if your vehicle qualifies... ask!

 

[armyRN]

Vehicle Requirements:

Unless you're in a VW Bug-based buggy, vehicle needs to have 4WD.

Vehicles must be in good working order. We will be driving about 600 miles total over six days essentially off-pavement. That means cooling system is working well and not leaking, hoses are good, ignition is running strong, good secured battery & wiring, fluids are relatively fresh, brakes are in good working condition, U-Joints are good, etc.; and any known issues have been fixed before the meet-up day. This should be for any Overlanding trip you're planning on participating with, not just this one.

Tires must have good tread on them, and be in good safe condition - preferably not street tires but AT or MT tires. All vehicles must have a full size, mounted matching spare tire on a proper rim with good tread (no temporary spares even if they are of a matching size).

Vehicles must have strong tow-points (like tow hooks) front & rear (a 2" receiver also counts as a tow-point). Those bent wire-looking things welded under some vehicles used to tie them down from the factory for transport aren't really tow-points. 2" receiver "D" rings work great in a 2" receiver hitch and are considered tow-points.

Each vehicle must have a tow strap or recovery strap (not a chain) of some kind strong enough for the weight of their vehicles. Straps must have loops at the ends, not metal hooks.

Must have a jack capable of lifting your vehicle to change a tire (does not have to be a high-lift jack). If you've lifted your rig and put taller tires on it, see if your factory jack will still work.

Must have a spare fan belt(s) for your engine. We can usually repair a busted radiator hose on the trail; we can reseat a bead; we can't tape together a busted fan belt.

Must have a working CB radio at a minimum. A little hand-held radio also comes in handy when outside of your vehicle. When I pre-ran the route, most folks had the little BaoFeng UV-5R radios (they're inexpensive too).

Make sure you've got a decent air compressor. If it plugs into your cigarette lighter on the dash, it is not going to be adequate; you need one that is either hard-wired into your wiring system, or one with clips that attach to the battery. We will be frequently airing-down and airing back up. I use an M-240 (which we once used to reseat a bead on a tire while on the trail), but VIAR and others make good ones that are reasonably priced. There's even a thread on this very topic:

Best mobile air compressor unit for Overland travel?

Alright fellow overlandies, Amazon links are appreciated. What do you use, what works, what will last? I need a mobile compressor for my 4Runner so I can air down then back up in the backcountry. Let me have the knowledge. Thanks in advance, Nico.

www.overlandbound.com

Specialopstools.com – Opening Soon

specialopstools.com

(I just think ammo cans are cool)

Vehicle must be capable of traveling at least 150 miles using the gasoline you're carrying. Figure we'll be driving relatively slow and not on pavement; you will not be getting anywhere near your normal highway MPG. Plan accordingly - Jerry cans are your friend. When we stop for gas, everyone fills-up or tops-off. You never know; we might have to do some backtracking, or the one gas station in town is closed when we get there. Or you might get to save someone else who's run out of gas, or they're saving your butt with their spare gas.

The trails in the PNW are tight with brush. Plan on possible/likely trail pinstriping on your vehicle.

If you're planning on bringing a trailer, think small. We're talking WWII military-type trailer sized, or really small 4' wide teardrop-type or expedition trailers as your best bet. The trailer's widest measurement (usually from the outside of one tire to the outside of the other tire) should NOT be wider than the tow vehicle's width. This trail is very narrow in lots of places. Either way, trailers need to have good rugged suspension and off-road tires (preferably "LT" series tires at least) with good tread, and high clearance underneath. AND... all trailers need a spare tire. If your trailer is running the same size wheel & tire and bolt-pattern as your tow vehicle's full-size matching spare tire, that's fine. But if not, the trailer needs its own designated matching mounted spare wheel and tire. FWIW, my lil' trailer has its own spare as it doesn't match any of my other vehicle's tires (or even the bolt pattern on my Willys).

Do Not pull something old out of a barn that's been sitting for 20 years, get it to fire up, and then decide it is ready to run 600 miles essentially off-pavement in the wilderness. This is not a "Beater" run. If your vehicle looks like it is not able to complete the 600 mile route for whatever reason, you will be asked to not participate. I'm sure you wouldn't want to intentionally be the "weak-link" on this trip.

 

[armyRN]

What else do you need to bring:

Every vehicle should have their own copy of the WABDR map - you'll be glad you have one. You can purchase one here below ($14.95):

Butler Motorcycle Maps - Washington Backcountry Discovery Route (WABDR)

The perfect planning map for preparing to ride the Washington Backcountry Discovery Route WABDR.

touratech-usa.com

Bring a sense of adventure, and an understanding that things won't always go as planned (and that includes not knowing exactly where we'll be camping every night).

If there is something that frequently breaks on your vehicle or is a hard-to-find item, bring a spare.

Figure we'll be camping every evening for 5-6 nights, so pack accordingly (you're Overlanders - you should have this part down!). Most days (possibly not all) we should be going through a town that at least has a gas station, but have enough food for a couple days just-in-case.

It would be nice if everyone could bring at least a little firewood (like the little bundles you buy at the store) so we've got something to get us going every night. If nothing else, squirrel a couple pieces in your vehicle or trailer.

A wrist watch might be a good idea if your cellphone isn't always permanently attached to your person. We will have a specific designated departure time every morning (figure around 0800 unless told otherwise). The time will be put out the evening before. That means vehicles are rolling out at that time in the morning. This means by that designated time you've already gotten up, got dressed, ate breakfast, done your morning routine stuff, taken down and secured your camping gear, and loaded up your vehicle and are ready to roll. We will not be standing around waiting to leave once "everyone is ready to go"; otherwise we'll be lucky to hit the road/trail after lunch every day. Please be punctual.

Same goes for when we do a gas stop or decide to explore a little town, have lunch, or whatever - there will be a departure time/wheel's rolling time put-out so everyone knows when to meet back to head back out/start rolling.

 

[armyRN]

What should I not bring?

No smoking marijuana. I don't care if it is legal in WA. Don't bring it to smoke it. Bake it in brownies or something and munch away.

No illicit drugs (I shouldn't have to say it... but I will... I guess I just did).

If you need to bring a separate cooler just for beer... maybe you should reevaluate your priorities. A little drinking around the campfire at night is totally cool; having to get drunk is not. Drinking and driving - along with being illegal (even if off-road), is unsafe, and will not be tolerated. This is not a "party-hard and let it all hang-out" kind of trip.

I really don't expect the above to be a problem (Overlanders are usually a pretty mellow group); but I'm putting it out there just-in-case. Unfortunately I've experienced at least two out of the three above on previous events over the years.

No portable gas or diesel or propane generators. I don't care if yours is advertised as "whisper quiet" or is encased in insulation; we can still hear it. We don't want to hear it. We are wanting to hear "Nature" when we're camped for the evening & in the morning, or the crackle of a campfire; not a small motor running. Leave them at home. Seriously. We don't care if you feel you need to run a generator so you can have AC running in your trailer or to power your microwave - no gas/diesel/propane/or whatever fuel-it-burns generators on this trip. We're camping folks. Wilderness... Nature... Outdoors... Don't fight it - Embrace it!

So also do not bring "noise/sound producing devices" that others can hear. That includes music players that others have to listen to, radios, DVD players, movie projectors (I've seen it that's why I'm saying it), etc. That's why God invented headphones if you really need to listen to it. I'm sure I'm not the only one that enjoys "Getting away from it all" when overlanding; why should we have to listen to that stuff? Lets be considerate of others. Yes; I know if you bring little kids sometimes you need to entertain them in the evening with a movie. Everyone else shouldn't know they're watching a movie on a laptop screen.

Fireworks. Let's not catch WA on fire. Do not bring them.

Pets are cool. As usual, make sure they're under your control (and clean up after them). Yes; bears poop in the woods - but not usually around where we're set up camping to where we could be stepping in it.

Let's talk about guns. I like guns. I'm a Patriot Life Member of the NRA. If you bring one (or more), please keep them out-of-site and safely secured in your vehicle or on your person. Prefer no recreational shooting on this trip (unless at a formally designated firing area). Lets not have any negligent discharges (you Army folks know what I mean).

 

[M Rose]

So what qualifies as an "Old-School" vehicle? You've gotta draw the line somewhere, but here goes:

Any Jeep CJ is Old School (CJs went up to 85 or 86; I know the Jeep YJ came out in 1987 [a YJ is NOT Old School]). Included are CJ2, CJ2A, CJ3A, CJ3B, CJ5, CJ6, CJ7, CJ8, MA, MB, M38, M38A1, and other military variants of the CJ-series Jeep.

Jeep Wagoneer 1963 - 1991; lets include those too (the earlier years the better). And lets not forget the Jeep trucks 1962 - 1988.

Dodge Ram Chargers, which went from 1974 to 1993 (we'll include them all since you don't see that many).

Classic Ford Broncos 1966 - 1977; I'll even include the 2nd generation Bronco 1978 - 1989 (of course, the earlier the 2nd Gen the better).

Chevy K5 Blazers are Old School (first generation 1969 - 1972, or early second generation 1973 to we'll say mid-80's).

Old Toyota Land Cruisers (FJ40 types) & old Toyota trucks with solid axles front & rear and carbureted engines.

Any International Scout vehicle.

As mentioned previously, if it came from the factory with solid axles front & rear, and a carbureted engine, it is probably "Old-School".

VW Bugs (usually set up as a "Baja Bug")

If you're not sure if your vehicle qualifies... ask!

If you're not sure if your vehicle qualifies... ask![/QUOTE]
Actually second gen Broncos are 78-79, third gen are 1980-1986, 4th gen are 1987-1992, 5th gen 1993-1996. if you are going to include the second gen Bronco the second gen F series truck has to be included as well because the Bronco was put onto a chopped F-150. The soi would say second gen Bronco Yes, but 3rd through 5th gen no.

 

[armyRN]

If you're not sure if your vehicle qualifies... ask!

Actually second gen Broncos are 78-79, third gen are 1980-1986, 4th gen are 1987-1992, 5th gen 1993-1996. if you are going to include the second gen Bronco the second gen F series truck has to be included as well because the Bronco was put onto a chopped F-150. The soi would say second gen Bronco Yes, but 3rd through 5th gen no.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I made the change. It gets a little gray in there - the third gen started out with carbs, but had the odd front axle. My first new truck was an 81 Ford F-100 stepside (2WD) 300 straight-six. Seems like such a long time ago.

 

[M Rose]

Thanks. I made the change. It gets a little gray in there - the third gen started out with carbs, but had the odd front axle.

correct the 79 was the last year of the solid axle. 1980-1986 all engines had carbs, fuel injection started in 1987. Body style changed in 1993 along with the interior. 1996 even though still a 5th gen should have been a 6th gen because it’s a one year only rig that only shares a Few parts with the rest of its 5th gen parts.

ohh and by posting this information, I disqualified myself from your run. As I have a mid 4th gen Bronco.

 

[M Rose]

I think this is going to be a sweet trip though.

 

[oldmopars]

So, I would love to do this, but need to know if my truck would qualify. It is a Square Body Suburban. They made them from 1973 to 1991, other than some very minor changes to the drive-train components and a front sheet-metal update in 1981, they are all basically the same. Mine is a 1990.
Solid axle, old school THM400, 14 bolt, etc.
So, let me know if this would qualify as old school.

 

[armyRN]

correct the 79 was the last year of the solid axle. 1980-1986 all engines had carbs, fuel injection started in 1987. Body style changed in 1993 along with the interior. 1996 even though still a 5th gen should have been a 6th gen because it’s a one year only rig that only shares a Few parts with the rest of its 5th gen parts.

ohh and by posting this information, I disqualified myself from your run. As I have a mid 4th gen Bronco.

You can still come as a support vehicle...

 

[armyRN]

So, I would love to do this, but need to know if my truck would qualify. It is a Square Body Suburban. They made them from 1973 to 1991, other than some very minor changes to the drive-train components and a front sheet-metal update in 1981, they are all basically the same. Mine is a 1990.
Solid axle, old school THM400, 14 bolt, etc.
So, let me know if this would qualify as old school.

Qualifies as a support vehicle. Would love to have you come along. But having just run the WABDR, there are some places that might be a little too tight to get through (at least not without guaranteed body damage).

 

[armyRN]

I''ll go first: I'm Paul, and I'm registered for the Old School Vehicle Overlanding Trip. The vehicle I'm taking is a 1946 Willys Jeep CJ2A and my lil' adventure trailer I put together starting with a HF frame. Kinda modified the Willys a bit; changes include a Rancho 2.5" lift, Lock-Rights in both the front and rear axles (25/44 - 5.38 gears), 31" tires on 15x8" rims, Ramsey winch, full roll cage, 69 Firebird seats, a 1973 Pinto 2000cc engine, T-90/Spicer 18 with Warn OD, and a bunch of other stuff. Otherwise mostly stock.

I've had this Willys for just over 30 years, and have been tinkering with it it seems like forever (they're never really "done"). I just recently put disc brakes on the front axle, and wired it for an electric trailer brake controller so it'll stop when pulling my little trailer. I've never taken the Willys on an extended trip like this, so I'm looking forward to it. I have this vision of riding up in the mountains, top off, windshield down & enjoying the beautiful scenery.

 

[M Rose]

Qualifies as a support vehicle. Would love to have you come along.

Depends, I am invited on another WABDR trip earlier in the summer, and I have a huge trip planned up here for Memorial Day Weekend. Will keep my eyes on this for sure.

 

[armyRN]

Depends, I am invited on another WABDR trip earlier in the summer, and I have a huge trip planned up here for Memorial Day Weekend. Will keep my eyes on this for sure.

If you do run it before we do, please give us a report back on how it went!

 

[M Rose]

If you do run it before we do, please give us a report back on how it went!

Roger, Will do.

 

[oldmopars]

There are several of us that will be doing the WABDR in June (We Hope) and so we should be able to give a full report on the conditions of the trail. I am slightly concerned that due to us going early and the stay at home thing, there may not have been a lot of traffic on the trail when we start and we may get slowed down a bit doing some trail clean up.

 

[shortbus4x4]

I'll be in one of my Jeep M715s. Looking forward to this.

 

[armyRN]

The way my work schedule is going, I might have some time off in May to do a WABDR pre-run if anyone is looking for another helper or just wants to go on short notice. I'd probably take my TJ and trailer on that one. Just saying....

I've registered for the NWOR 3-6 Sep. I registered for two people (don't know yet who that second person will be), and two spaces (one space comes with the registration, so I registered for an additional space). If you've never attended the NWOR and plan on camping there, they have the place very organized and blocked-off in 20' x 20' spaces. That might sound big, but that includes your rig. I've done it before with the TJ and trailer, but you really should consider getting an additional space. Picture is from the 2018 Rally.