Off road mid-size vs off road full size

[Renaissance_Man]

Hey everyone,
Previously I had a plan to build a go anywhere rig from a mid size pickup but a mechanic put some doubt in my mind.

He said that while a mid size will fit on ATV trails these trails are usually privately owned in Canada and that most land owners discriminate against any size pickup when deciding who to let on their land & trails.

He also said that a mid size is too light to get itself unstuck - this is what I'm not sure about. I always thought that a lighter truck was less likely to get stuck in the first place.

Im hoping that you experts can clear this one up for me

Happy trails,
Nicholas

 

[MidOH]

In the frozen, biting fly ridden, tundra of Canada, I'd rather have a fullsize. I can sleep in the crew cab with the AC and heat on. Or put a slide in camper in the bed.
Gas Ford F250/350 CC or the Ram equivalent.

Save the few tight trails to dirtbikes, mountain bikes, or mark1 hiking boot.

Go anywhere rigs completely suck. Build a big rig, and do the big gravel roads and park roads, with a lush amount of cargo or camper. Or get a small little ride, and stick to tight trails. It takes decades to see it all, spilt it all up, and concentrate on the type of overlanding you want to try first, with a rig specifically meant for such.

For example, I've already done all of the jeep trailS I'll ever want to in a YJ. So it's gone, and I'm in a fullsize. I want to cover more ground, hwy, and parks now.

 

[Renaissance_Man]

In the frozen, biting fly ridden, tundra of Canada, I'd rather have a fullsize. I can sleep in the crew cab with the AC and heat on. Or put a slide in camper in the bed.
Gas Ford F250/350 CC or the Ram equivalent.

Save the few tight trails to dirtbikes, mountain bikes, or mark1 hiking boot.

Go anywhere rigs completely suck. Build a big rig, and do the big gravel roads and park roads, with a lush amount of cargo or camper. Or get a small little ride, and stick to tight trails. It takes decades to see it all, spilt it all up, and concentrate on the type of overlanding you want to try first, with a rig specifically meant for such.

For example, I've already done all of the jeep trailS I'll ever want to in a YJ. So it's gone, and I'm in a fullsize. I want to cover more ground, hwy, and parks now.

I neglected to mention that I only sleep in a hammock when in the bush. Does that change your answer?

 

[Wile_Coyote]

The full size is soo much more comfortable. I've slept in the cab of a 3rd gen 4runner, not comfortable. I've slept in the cab of my '17 Silverdo; while not a cot, it was more comfortable than a smaller vehicle.

 

[MidOH]

I neglected to mention that I only sleep in a hammock when in the bush. Does that change your answer?

Nope. Canada was long roads, wide open spaces. Fullsize is a higher cruising speed, bigger fuel tank, extra comfort. Room in the bed for a 2nd spare as well.

 

[Smileyshaun]

Keep in mind a midsize nowadays is as big as a full-size use to be .

 

[Alanymarce]

Yes indeed - from my perspective a LC80 or Montero is "full size" and an F350 is "huge size".

To answer the question, thinking back to a period when I used to get out into very difficult places my primary vehicle for most of the time was a Patrol and it was extremely capable and reasonably comfortable over long distances, however when travelling with a friend in his Suzuki Samurai we could get into tight tracks which the Patrol was too big to handle. An F350 would have been incapable of even reaching some of the places we started in the Patrol.

I have to admit that I have no idea what an "ATV trail" is although I would have thought that it would be a trail for ATVs, which implies that anything bigger than an ATV would be too big - the biggest ATVs are about 120 cm wide, and the narrowest 4x4 "vehicle" is about 160 cm so even a little Suzuki wouldn't get into an ATV trail. I'd be happy to be educated out of my ignorance on the terminology.

 

[Renaissance_Man]

Yes indeed - from my perspective a LC80 or Montero is "full size" and an F350 is "huge size".

To answer the question, thinking back to a period when I used to get out into very difficult places my primary vehicle for most of the time was a Patrol and it was extremely capable and reasonably comfortable over long distances, however when travelling with a friend in his Suzuki Samurai we could get into tight tracks which the Patrol was too big to handle. An F350 would have been incapable of even reaching some of the places we started in the Patrol.

I have to admit that I have no idea what an "ATV trail" is although I would have thought that it would be a trail for ATVs, which implies that anything bigger than an ATV would be too big - the biggest ATVs are about 120 cm wide, and the narrowest 4x4 "vehicle" is about 160 cm so even a little Suzuki wouldn't get into an ATV trail. I'd be happy to be educated out of my ignorance on the terminology.

You are correct an ATV trail is a trail for ATVs. I kinda assumed that a mid size would fit thank you for educating me

 

[Renaissance_Man]

Thank you these are very good points that I have not thought of. Can anyone make the comparison: which is easier to get unstuck a light or heavy truck?

 

[Vinman]

Thank you these are very good points that I have not thought of. Can anyone make the comparison: which is easier to get unstuck a light or heavy truck?

In my 25 plus years of off-roading experience the lighter the vehicle is the less likely it is to get stuck and easier to get unstuck afterwards.

 

[MazeVX]

Forget the idea of the perfect vehicle.
You might travel somewhere else and it's not ideal, your skill level will change, the same with your confidence, your wants or needs. And this curve will be steep for a while...

So my honest opinion (after making the same mistake)

Buy something popular that every mechanic knows and parts are easy to get no matter if suv or truck as long as it has at least awd. Put some mud terrain tires on it and go exploring.
You will find out what you want and need and what fits the roads etc...

 

[MOAK]

@Rennaissance_Man
I don't know if our 80 series is considered to be mid size, but it is certainly smaller than todays standard size pick up truck platforms. My BIL has a new Chevy Colorado and it's about the same size as our 80. Before the 80 series we had a TJ, which may be considered mid-sized as well, so there is a world of difference within what is considered a mid-sized vehicle. Your mechanic is so full of brown 29 that it's coming out his ears. My "mid size" scales out at just under 7,000 lb loaded with gear and pulling our 1500 lb trailer. It has been stuck once, going through a section of forest road that our TJ traversed easily. Getting unstuck took a couple of hours and multiple winch pulls.

I've been on many a trail that a full size just will not make it. Why? Too big. Look, most every back country unimproved road in North America exists because of early settlers, miners and farmers carving paths/roads through the wilderness. Very few wagons were wider than 4' 8.5", ( railroad standard width ) Even the big prairie schooners had only a 4' wide box. I know that if we were in a full size truck we'd not make it to many spectacular camp spots. We'd have to give up planning the trips we take, as we would never know where or when we'd have to turn around. A full size would be a complete game changer for us, one that I am not willing to embark upon. I know, I know, there will be plenty of full size guys that'll disagree with me, but I've been there and done it, and would ask them to join me on a couple of our trips. My BIL has a Colorado. Even though it is considered mid sized and has about the same wheel base as our 80, there is a lot of sheet metal hanging over that got really banged up on our last trip. A full size would have never made it. A few years ago a fellow with a 200 series LC was following us and was really upset because of scratches, dents, and drag marks that he picked up along the way. Full size vehicles have their place, no doubt, I get that. However, I personally am not willing to give up experiences in the name of size, comfort or power.
Below is an image of my family at a campsite that a full size will never see.

 

[Renaissance_Man]

@Rennaissance_Man
I don't know if our 80 series is considered to be mid size, but it is certainly smaller than todays standard size pick up truck platforms. My BIL has a new Chevy Colorado and it's about the same size as our 80. Before the 80 series we had a TJ, which may be considered mid-sized as well, so there is a world of difference within what is considered a mid-sized vehicle. Your mechanic is so full of brown 29 that it's coming out his ears. My "mid size" scales out at just under 7,000 lb loaded with gear and pulling our 1500 lb trailer. It has been stuck once, going through a section of forest road that our TJ traversed easily. Getting unstuck took a couple of hours and multiple winch pulls.

I've been on many a trail that a full size just will not make it. Why? Too big. Look, most every back country unimproved road in North America exists because of early settlers, miners and farmers carving paths/roads through the wilderness. Very few wagons were wider than 4' 8.5", ( railroad standard width ) Even the big prairie schooners had only a 4' wide box. I know that if we were in a full size truck we'd not make it to many spectacular camp spots. We'd have to give up planning the trips we take, as we would never know where or when we'd have to turn around. A full size would be a complete game changer for us, one that I am not willing to embark upon. I know, I know, there will be plenty of full size guys that'll disagree with me, but I've been there and done it, and would ask them to join me on a couple of our trips. My BIL has a Colorado. Even though it is considered mid sized and has about the same wheel base as our 80, there is a lot of sheet metal hanging over that got really banged up on our last trip. A full size would have never made it. A few years ago a fellow with a 200 series LC was following us and was really upset because of scratches, dents, and drag marks that he picked up along the way. Full size vehicles have their place, no doubt, I get that. However, I personally am not willing to give up experiences in the name of size, comfort or power.
Below is an image of my family at a campsite that a full size will never see.

View attachment 209979

I'm not 100% sure what brown 29 is nor BIL but I get your point. Have you been to Canada? Would you say the same thing about the width of the trails in Canada?

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

I'm not 100% sure what brown 29 is nor BIL but I get your point. Have you been to Canada? Would you say the same thing about the width of the trails in Canada?

Haha. It’s brother-in-law and I think, perhaps, he meant brown 25 but all his points ring true. I’ve kept my vehicles ‘smaller’ because full size vehicles either won’t fit where I go or they will forever wear the scars of the endeavor. I’ve never had an issue being able to pack enough gear/supplies. If anything I believe it forces you to be creative. I’m in a Colorado Bison now and even with 2 young children in car seats we easily make things happen.

Ultimately get whatever you like the most. You’ll be the one spending all the time in it day in and day out. Whatever obstacles come your way simply adapt and overcome.

 

[Smileyshaun]

Something else to keep in mind , down here in the pnw back in the day I explored and traveled 1000s of miles of FS roads in a 88 Toyota Camry . You can see a lot of places that are truly off the beaten path with very little vehicle.

 

[MOAK]

I'm not 100% sure what brown 29 is nor BIL but I get your point. Have you been to Canada? Would you say the same thing about the width of the trails in Canada?

Brown 25 is an old joke from a 45 year old movie The Groove Tube, having to do with human poo. BIL is Brother In Law. And yes, we’ve been all over the Gaspe’ peninsula. I’m also very familiar with the Montreal region as I visited your city every Monday for nearly 20 years. Out on the Gaspe’ we did manage to find a couple of two tracks where anything larger than a “mid size” woulda been damaged. Btw? What part of Montreal do you live?

 

[Arailt]

You are correct an ATV trail is a trail for ATVs. I kinda assumed that a mid size would fit thank you for educating me

FWIW, I used to take my XJ and TJ Jeeps on ATV trails in SW PA and WV all the time. They fit, you just have to be prepared for lots of pinstriping .

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

FWIW, I used to take my XJ and TJ Jeeps on ATV trails in SW PA and WV all the time. They fit, you just have to be prepared for lots of pinstriping .

You just described every trail in Pennsyltucky. Our state flower, among other undergrowth, love to leave lasting impressions haha.

 

[Smileyshaun]

Some atv trails especially in OHV parks are just for atv/dirt bikes and using them with a 4x4 rig will lead to trail damage and eventual shutdown

 

[Alanymarce]

Thank you these are very good points that I have not thought of. Can anyone make the comparison: which is easier to get unstuck a light or heavy truck?

A bit of a generalisation but I'd prefer to recover a lighter vehicle.