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TheBorg

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231
Fayetteville, NC, USA
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Daniel
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So our family has been doing trips in a '94 ZJ which suffered an electrical fire and is pretty much totaled. With this experience I have definitely built up some preferences, but wanted advice on specific vehicle platforms. These are my basic criteria that I am looking for.

1. Total budget (base platform +build) no more than $40K

2. Body type. I'd prefer a short bed 4-door truck, but I'd consider a medium sized SUV. I'm actually undecided on how big of a truck I am willing to deal with. I am located in the South East US, so small can be better.

3. Reliability. This is a top priority because I have had some very close calls, and don't want to be stuck in the middle of the woods with a deadlined vehicle, and also don't want to have a constant freak parade of broken things on my truck that I have to fix. I also regularly challenge the approach and departure angles of my rig, as well as going through water, flexing over largish rocks, logs, and through washout, and engine-braking down steep hills with good size rocks on them. I want something that is engineered for this type of use from the factory, as opposed to something engineered for pavement from the factory, and then heavily retrofitted. This goes back to the issue of longevity and not breaking stuff.

4. Capability. I want the ground clearance, angles, 4-wheel drive system/difs, and protection, to go over stuff. I will also need a winch, which I have (so not a budget problem) will need a bumper system to support. I also want rock sliders and skid plates.

5. Engine. More fuel economy is more better, but torque rules. I was very happy with the 5.2 under the hood of my ZJ, I wouldn't want much less in terms of engine performance.

6. Size. I am undecided on this. For instance, high mileage 1st gen F-150 Raptors can be had in the low 30K range, meets my criteria, but this is a big truck with a wide foot print. Do I really want to wheel this thing in the woods of NC/SC/VA? Also, width is a double edge sword. Sometimes width reduces your roll risk and allows you to straddle things and keep from getting off-camber. On the other hand, sometimes it means it's hard to make tight turns and get through tight spaces. As far as storage space, I really can't accept anything less than the ZJ, and that was pushing it. I also need enough back seat room for when my two kids get to be teenagers. Being squished in the back of a 1st-gen Tacoma, for instance, is maybe not a great idea.

Thoughts I have had so far are Tacoma larger V6 option, Colorado ZR2 with V6 or Deisel, Wrangler unlimited (some concern with cargo room), 2011-13 ish raptor with 100K on it. What are your thoughts. BTW I'm not messing with RTTs, fridgeds, trailors/campers, or other high level creature comforts. The vehicle will get some kind of basic storage system (probably Decked if it's a truck) to make camp setup and break-down faster, so I need some money in the budget for that, but I am not paying big money for something like that. $1500 absolute max, and maybe a lot less. The vehicle is 1st priority. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 
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grubworm

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the tacoma and colorado are nice rigs and seem to be very popular and reliable. i have a tundra and did some trails in NC and GA and it was a bit big for that, so the smaller truck makes a lot of sense. i have a decked system (made it vs buying) and i really like having it. the pick up alone is a very versatile platform and then adding a decked system really helps with storage and security...plus we sleep on top of the deck, so its really the only way to go if sleeping in the back of a pick up.

i've bought nothing but diesel 4x4 trucks since the early 90s and my cummings got some bad fuel and fried the injectors and cost me $4500 to repair and then i bought a super duty and that engine had a lot of issues with EGR, etc and then i've heard horror stories of the newer engines with DEF and that is why i decided to go with a gas V-8 and went with the tundra. their gas engines are very reliable and i've had mine over 3 yrs so far and zero problems. my super duty started having problems right as the warranty expired. the cummings is a great engine, but then all the emission stuff is what causes a lot of problems, so that is why i switched from diesel.

there are members on here with the colorado and have posted pics and they seem to be a very good vehicle for this. of course the tacoma is sort of the standard in overland trucks for the most part, so obviously a tacoma will do well. at least with a pick up, you have a lot of versatility and capability that you wouldn't have with other rigs and if you change your mind on how you want to travel, the pick up is pretty easy to make changes to. i'd definitely go tacoma or colorado
 

TheBorg

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231
Fayetteville, NC, USA
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Daniel
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Thanks Grub. Some people say that Tacoma factory suspension is really not up to serious off-road use, do you know anything about that, and how do you think that stacks up against the factory ZR2 suspension package?
 

tjZ06

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Thanks Grub. Some people say that Tacoma factory suspension is really not up to serious off-road use, do you know anything about that, and how do you think that stacks up against the factory ZR2 suspension package?
What do you consider serious? If it's more than a newer Taco with the optional rear locker will do, then I'd say a proper Jeep is the way to go. ZR2 Colorado with it's front and rear lockers will do more than a rear-locker-only Taco... but not a *ton* more. So that'd have you looking at Wranglers and Gladiators. A Gladiator might be perfect for you (4 door with a bed) but $40k total is going to be tight, especially for a Rubicon (which you'd want if a Taco with a rear locker isn't capable enough). Gladiators just haven't been around long enough to find many used, and it looks like used Gladiator Rubicons are still ~50k (which is funny, because you can find them new for that). With the Gladiator out, I'd say a nice JLUR is next best. A quick search in your area shows it's still going to be hard to find a JLUR under $40k. So, I guess that lands you at a JKUR.

You should easily be able to get into a JKUR, just look for 2012+ with the 3.6 (the 3.8 that came before it is a total turd). If you can find one a JKUR Recon edition has the beefier front axle (still a D44 like all Rubicons, but it has thicker axle tubes and brackets) which is a plus - I have a JKUR Recon front axle under my WJ. I'd avoid any highly modded ones, even though it seems enticing to get a bunch of neat modifications for pennies on the dollar, generally a modded Rubi has been beaten on more and big lifts, wheels and tires add a lot to the wear and tear.

-TJ
 

LostInThought

Rank VI
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3,514
Dripping Springs, Texas, United States
First Name
Jeff
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Kprotected
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20371

So our family has been doing trips in a '94 ZJ which suffered an electrical fire and is pretty much totaled. With this experience I have definitely built up some preferences, but wanted advice on specific vehicle platforms. These are my basic criteria that I am looking for.

1. Total budget (base platform +build) no more than $40K

2. Body type. I'd prefer a short bed 4-door truck, but I'd consider a medium sized SUV. I'm actually undecided on how big of a truck I am willing to deal with. I am located in the South East US, so small can be better.

3. Reliability. This is a top priority because I have had some very close calls, and don't want to be stuck in the middle of the woods with a deadlined vehicle, and also don't want to have a constant freak parade of broken things on my truck that I have to fix. I also regularly challenge the approach and departure angles of my rig, as well as going through water, flexing over largish rocks, logs, and through washout, and engine-braking down steep hills with good size rocks on them. I want something that is engineered for this type of use from the factory, as opposed to something engineered for pavement from the factory, and then heavily retrofitted. This goes back to the issue of longevity and not breaking stuff.

4. Capability. I want the ground clearance, angles, 4-wheel drive system/difs, and protection, to go over stuff. I will also need a winch, which I have (so not a budget problem) will need a bumper system to support. I also want rock sliders and skid plates.

5. Engine. More fuel economy is more better, but torque rules. I was very happy with the 5.2 under the hood of my ZJ, I wouldn't want much less in terms of engine performance.

6. Size. I am undecided on this. For instance, high mileage 1st gen F-150 Raptors can be had in the low 30K range, meets my criteria, but this is a big truck with a wide foot print. Do I really want to wheel this thing in the woods of NC/SC/VA? Also, width is a double edge sword. Sometimes width reduces your roll risk and allows you to straddle things and keep from getting off-camber. On the other hand, sometimes it means it's hard to make tight turns and get through tight spaces. As far as storage space, I really can't accept anything less than the ZJ, and that was pushing it. I also need enough back seat room for when my two kids get to be teenagers. Being squished in the back of a 1st-gen Tacoma, for instance, is maybe not a great idea.

Thoughts I have had so far are Tacoma larger V6 option, Colorado ZR2 with V6 or Deisel, Wrangler unlimited (some concern with cargo room), 2011-13 ish raptor with 100K on it. What are your thoughts. BTW I'm not messing with RTTs, fridgeds, trailors/campers, or other high level creature comforts. The vehicle will get some kind of basic storage system (probably Decked if it's a truck) to make camp setup and break-down faster, so I need some money in the budget for that, but I am not paying big money for something like that. $1500 absolute max, and maybe a lot less. The vehicle is 1st priority. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
A couple notes:

(1) You might consider adding "PAYLOAD (and Curb Weight or GVWR)" as the second criteria immediately after "Total Budget", since these are the primary limitations on any build out. Estimate the weight increase for your build-plan and the weight of the people, water, gear, and supplies you intend to carry, keeping these within the payload limit and keeping total weight under the GVWR. Builds that exceed the GVWR/payload limits can have handling/stability problems and suffer from fatigue fractures in the frame, chassis, and welds. Under 1400lbs payload on the plate will be challenging, over 1500 lbs provides some flexibility for trade-offs on the things you really need.

(2) In addition to Engine, you might consider adding "Factory Fuel Range" (as a starting point for modifications). The factory fuel range will be reduced by weight added in the build (esp big tires) and gear, by weight added from carrying extra fuel (to make up for the aforementioned weight added for the build and gear), and by further reducing the payload capacity (for the aforementioned added fuel). Some rigs get by with ~2-300 mile range while others add long range fuel tanks to push that into the 5-600 mile range. Curb weight includes a full tank of fuel in the factory tank, but for additional fuel to be carried, estimate gasoline at ~6.1lbs/gallon and diesel at ~7.1lbs/gallon, then add the weight of the container(s). A long-range fuel tank could eat up 10% of your payload capacity.

(3) Size: consider both width and wheelbase - a short wheelbase and tight turning circle can be a big win on tight trails.

After that, a few comments:

People complain about payload on Wranglers and Tacomas. The 4runner's payload is probably part of why it seems popular here.

F-150 platform is solid, if a little wide, and depending on the model/trim can have a payload over 2200 lbs. Used F-150s can be found at reasonable prices.

Toyota seems to be the winner on reliability, but that comes at a cost. Late model year used Toyotas can be almost as expensive as new ones.
 

TheBorg

Rank I

Enthusiast I

231
Fayetteville, NC, USA
First Name
Daniel
Last Name
Black
Hey guys, thanks a lot for the helpful replies. After some further thought and consideration decided that I want to dump less money into this and have decided that I will probably go the GX 470 route. This gives me about the same storage space as my ZJ, and, as noted earlier in the thread, as very solid and reliable platform that I can customize to be exactly what I want and to have some excellent capabilities, all for around 25K. This seems to me like a win-win. This being said. There are a couple things I'd like input on.

1. Suspension and wheels. I'm looking at doing 285/70/R17s on the factory wheels, or 33's if I can find the appropriate size, with about a three inch lift with no spacers to maximize suspension travel. I am looking at the Old Man Emu complete kit for this, as I really like their stated design philosophy and they are known to make quality stuff. Is there anything else I could do to maximize suspension travel, especially down-drop? Are there adjustable options I should consider? If possible I would like to keep the budget reasonable and stay with full kits, or kits.

2. Drive train. After youtubing the A-TRAC system and watching guys climb up some stuff and doing some other research on the best way to deal with AWD type systems off road (my ZJ was retrofitted with an XJ transfer case and an LSD) It looks like an Aussie locker in the rear and leave the rest alone is the way to go. There's a bunch of guys with center dif type systems that swear by the setup of full time locker in the back with A-TRAC up front, (or similar) and if you think about the mechanics that makes a lot of sense, especially with the center dif lock/torsen setup on the GX.

3. Bumpers and roof rack. A front bumper is a must on this thing, and I always put our sleep gear and clothing (properly waterproofed of course) on the roof. However, it looks like the most economic way is to go with Rocky Road's low profile roof rack and mount my trail lights, hi-lift, spare tire, and the aformentioned gear up there. The issue with this is that it adds up to a couple hundred pounds on the roof, and I'm not sure how happy I am about that. I also don't love the factory rear bumper with it's non-great departure angle and lack of protection for bashing my rear corners. A fix to all that is to add Yota-Mafia's rear swing out bumper and roll with the factory roof rack or a Walmart cheapie for my sleap gear. This give me protection and departure angle, and puts the weight of the jack and the tire down low. It also give me another 100+ of total weight (8% GVWR?) and dumps another $600 ish into the build, with no place to put my trail lights I'm taking off my jeep.
 

Billiebob

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I gotta say the Raptor would not be my choice. It is built for fast forestry road travel. Not at all focused on what you are doing.

The Taco and Bison would be ideal choices but a Wrangler will be tougher with solid axles and Jeep makes no attempt to hide the fact it is not a cushy riding 4x4.
With your criteria, I'd pick a Wrangler.... or Gladiator.... with lockers.

Wrangler do tend to be the most expensive used because they just don't depreciate.
Costly to buy in, but easier to sell with little depreciation.
 

Wellspring

Rank II

Enthusiast III

473
North Carolina, USA
First Name
Ted
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Spirakis
If you want a mechanically relaible vehicle with very good resale, stick with a Tacoma TRD Off Road. Besides the Jeep, you can find and buy anything under the sun afermarket to make your Taco rig off road worthy should you care to spend the money.
 

derekjhunt

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Enthusiast II

595
Middletown, CT
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Hunt
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Nissan Titan here. Several trips from the East coast to the West coast and back again and proven throughout Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, South Dakota, Idaho, Washington, Vermont and New Hampshire.. I bought the Nissan because it was 25% less than the comparable Ford and Toyota with a way better warranty. I was less concerned about fancy gear, aftermarket parts and what not and more concerned about using vehicle for the experience. So far, the past three years have been great. It's been completely reliable (except for almost flipping it in Vermont, but that was the road and not a build issue). Buy what you can afford and get out on the trail. Hav fun!
 
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