New ford bronco capabilities. Is jeep in big trouble?

[Autism Family Travels]

2021 Bronco Badlands, 33” wheels, front and rear locker, sway disconnect. 2.3L 7 Speed. High package, 360 degree camera. Roof rails, tow package. I’m below $54,000

2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. 2.4L Turbo, Auto Transmission, lockers, swat disconnect, front camera, rock rails, 8.4” infotainment - $57,620.

I’m not looking at the Bronco Sport, I’m looking at the 4 Door Bronco with the removable top, Badlands is equal to the Rubicon. Sasquatch adds lockers to all trim levels - I’m giving them a side by side, “apples to apples” comparison on what I want on a vehicle. The Bronco does have better tech, which makes my daily driving experience better. But it is difficult to compare “apples to apples” because Ford does have the 360 camera vs front facing camera, the Bronco comes with Rock Rails, the Rubicon is an add on. The Manual Bronco Badlands is equipped with 4.7 gears, you have to upgrade the Rubicon to 4.10 (comes with 3.73).

It’s a great option, and out of the gate looks like a solid performer, and based on my needs it’s about $4000 less expensive. That’s all I was trying to get across. Each of us are going to want different things in vehicles, I presently drive a very capable Wrangler, but I have had Pentastar Gremlins since 100,000 miles, the top leaks, and I see the JL has the same leaking issues, so did the TJ, YJ.

I am hoping that having another open air off road vehicle in the mix fosters healthy competition in the manufacturers.

4.10 is standard on Rubicon, ditch the 2.4 and use the standard v6 option with auto.

I priced the bronco and rubicon here and the bronc comes in at 67k and the rubi comes in at 61. same options on both. No squatch package on the bad lands.

Hard top, camera, trailer package and auto on the bronc..

Hard top camera, trailer package, steel bumper package, led package, auto and cold weather group on the rubi.

 

[Padams7]

While I don’t doubt you got those prices, for what I want, my Badlands is less than what I’d build a Rubicon for, and I’m unhappy with the Pentastar. But I’ll be happy to get it, and hope to see you on the trails!

 

[Autism Family Travels]

While I don’t doubt you got those prices, for what I want, my Badlands is less than what I’d build a Rubicon for, and I’m unhappy with the Pentastar. But I’ll be happy to get it, and hope to see you on the trails!

Im wondering if the pricing is different in the states. I have seen that before. Don't get me wrong, I love the new bronco. But for us, 6k is alot of difference for the same build. I am wondering now if they will hold their value like the wrangler or will they depreciate fast like the F150. Hopfully the latter, so I can grab one cheap a few years old.

 

[Anak]

I would expect their depreciation to match that of the Toyota FJ Cruiser.

I suspect there will be many parallels between the two.

 

[Outdoordog]

I think competition will be good for jeeps, they've been hogging the market and not pressured to offer more, since no one was challenging the wrangler.
Now, we see more changes in the wrangler, like the v8.
I suppose we will see more changes soon.

I hope the bronco comes out and threatens the wrangler, so that jeep pushes the game further, if not, they'll play it safe.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

I think competition will be good for jeeps, they've been hogging the market and not pressured to offer more, since no one was challenging the wrangler.
Now, we see more changes in the wrangler, like the v8.
I suppose we will see more changes soon.

I hope the bronco comes out and threatens the wrangler, so that jeep pushes the game further, if not, they'll play it safe.

The v8 is not a big deal. It would be better if they just put the 5.7 vvt in there. The392 is just a gas guzzler and overkill for the wrangler. Just like the TRX. give me the TRX with a normal 5.7 and it would be the ultimate truck. As it sit now, Yay i have 700 hp I am going to pedal it up this dirt road...great 50 miles later, I am out of gas. Jeep was doing the V8 before the bronco was announced, I assure you. They just sat on it. This horsepower obsession is silly. The 3.6l has close to the same power and torque as the 4.6l v8 from ford that was in the f150. It gets my wrangler along just fine. I cruise at 60mph all day with reserves left to pass no problem.

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

It seems everybody wants LED lights - I also see everybody complaining how bad the LED lights are in the winter, when there's no heat to melt accumulating snow off the lights...

 

[Billiebob]

can jeep compete in its current configuration though?

It seems if done right , IFS's benefits far outweigh its downsides when off roading. And for jeep to compete on road with bronco , they would have to either engineer magic front axle , or go IFS

Biggest selling point for the Wrangler is the solid front axle. If Jeep dropped that I'd be buying a 2500 Ram or F250.

 

[Neuvik]

can jeep compete in its current configuration though?

It seems if done right , IFS's benefits far outweigh its downsides when off roading. And for jeep to compete on road with bronco , they would have to either engineer magic front axle , or go IFS

The underpowered engine is another problem

Of course Jeep can compete, and will shine for off the lot off road capability. Whats wrong with their axle? Its been working great for decades now.

Key words there, "if done right." Nothing off the lot is going to be some trophy truck with built IFS. IFS cons are still weak lower control arms, physically weak and complex CV joints, small axle shafts, and smaller tie rods. A lot of force is put on those CV tripod joints, and when they die, they typically eat the axle shaft as well.

Compared to a SFA that is just caveman simple, physically stronger, and have a limited number of high stress locations; U-joints really being the only major point of concern.

It really just boils down to personal choice rather than engineering. Comfort or practicality. IFS can do rock crawling, and SFA can do washboards. They only just shine when stretched to the farthest limit. A SFA is going to be uncomfortable, and hard to control trying to keep up with Baja rigs'and IFS isn't going to have the articulation and strength crawling with the Fordyce rigs.


In any event this is great! We need more competition with OEM off road tech. If the computer controlled front dig on the Bronco really works its going to be a nimble rig on the trails, with the factory lockers it should keep up with Jeep Rubicons no problem. I'm no beta tester so if I had the money and had to purchase a rig it would be a Jeep or ZR2; but thats another philosophical discussion.

Hopefully imports get with the program and add more off road capability and features. Toyota is still drunk off their fans paying premiums for the same thing. Landrover Defender is just competing with people who would have bought an LR4; they should have offered a stripped model to increase their customer base, $90k at Rocklin Ca lawl. Still can't believe the lame approach and departure angles and those city folk wheels.

 

[bgenlvtex]

You guys arguing window stickers are completely ignoring the fact that NOBODY short of an idiot is paying anywhere close to sticker for a Jeep. Any Jeep with any accessory package.

Will the Broncos be discounted? Not bloody likely eh mate. Not until the initial frenzy is over they won't. Certainly not the first year or two, so arguing sticker prices is a completely moot point.

I bought ordered my Gladiator with every significant option available, and had it before they finished delivering the Launch Editions for almost $10k less than the LE($53k). The difference? Front camera was not order able, nor was the steel bumper. I ordered the steel bumper and all necessary parts and installed it for about $100 more than it would have been if I could have added it on the order. I didn't and still don't want a front camera.

If I had it to do over again, I would not have wasted money on the adaptive cruise control. I don't like it and never use it.

The 3.6 is a great engine, they have made hundreds of thousands if not millions of them. I've had 2, certainly not empirical data, but my anecdotal experience is positive. It has plenty of power and coupled to the 8 speed functions very smoothly. FCA has and continues to use them in cars, 1/2 ton pick ups, Jeeps, muh mini van ( oh no!). People bag on them while completely ignoring the cam phaser issues in the EB engines as well as the projected life expectancy of the turbo sets of 100-125k, meaning just about the time you get your truck paid off into the shop it goes for a $3000 turbo set replacement. Do 3.6`s break? Sure they do, oil coolers in particular do, which is a $200 part.

If Jeep suddenly started offering the lockers and disco sway bars on entry level Jeeps how do you think the people who already bought Rubicon would feel about that? Some (many) people buy a Rubicon because resale /trade value of a Rubicon is always higher and they are always desirable in the secondary market. Offering those components on lower trim packages would only diminish that value.

I'm not a brand snob, I currently own GMC, Ram, Jeep, Toyota and Hyundai. I buy value and function, and recognize both.

 

[MidOH]

Way too many hemi and wrangler, engine sob stories out there. Hopefully the new V8 is reliable. I definitely feel better about the eco boost engine. Turbo seals ain't no big deal at all.

Seems to me that the Bronco is aimed at what most jeeps do most of their time. Not solid axle crawling that Jeeps are made for, but never get to do. Plenty of capability, more room, interior that doesn't look like a kids play room, roof that doesn't leak, and lockers and 35's stock. If the IFS is better than a Taco's, they have a winner.

 

[Autism Family Travels]

ecoboosts have terrible reliability in my area. Most opt for the the 5.0 since they have been burned by the poor milage and constant trips to the dealer because of turbo issues and other things with the ecoboost. The coyote motor in the bronco would have been awesome. Just because no turbos.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

The 3.6 is a great engine, they have made hundreds of thousands if not millions of them. I've had 2, certainly not empirical data, but my anecdotal experience is positive. It has plenty of power and coupled to the 8 speed functions very smoothly. FCA has and continues to use them in cars, 1/2 ton pick ups, Jeeps, muh mini van ( oh no!). People bag on them while completely ignoring the cam phaser issues in the EB engines as well as the projected life expectancy of the turbo sets of 100-125k, meaning just about the time you get your truck paid off into the shop it goes for a $3000 turbo set replacement. Do 3.6`s break? Sure they do, oil coolers in particular do, which is a $200 part.

There's a guy at the Ram forum with over 300,000 miles on a Pentastar 3.6.

A mighty fine powerplant.

 

[MOAK]

Jeep's problem is not the Bronco.

Jeep's problem is Stellantis.

Jeep is now Fiat, Puegot and Citroen. Yippee.

My bet is that Jeep is on the same path that Jaguar went on when Ford took over. Boredom will ensue. Give it a decade. Maybe more because the brand itself is fairly strong. But there is going to be a day when someone (an investor group) is going to come up with the cash to buy the Jeep brand out from the mess it is currently lumped in with and return it to its roots. And then we will have a chance of getting a real Jeep again.

For the time being, classic Jeeps are going to be embarrased by their new generations.

Isn’t that the truth. Jeep wandered from me with the introduction of the JK. And, I can’t believe anyone, especially on these and other “ off road” type forums, can possibly argue that IFS is comparable to solid axles. They just aren’t. Comparing apples to apples, Toyota IFS versus Toyota solid, or Ford IFS versus Ford solid or Jeep IFS versus Jeep solid, pick any brand, (Dana, etc,) solid front axles will outperform and outlast IFS. I don’t even consider the new Bronco as a serious contender. They will look really good though sitting at red lights or down at the local Kroger

 

[MidOH]

I'm with you 100%. That's why my rig is a 17 F250 fx4. Dana 60, locker ready front axle.

But I'm betting that the Bronco IFS is better than the Taco's, ZR2's, Frontier's............ That's enough for most overlanders.

Jeep should consider a Dana 60 front and rear option, with lockers, available on every trim package of the Gladiator. Along with 35's and the V8.

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

...roof that doesn't leak,...

They haven't built enough of them to get them on the road long enough to see whether or not the roof is going to leak.

 

[MOAK]

I'm with you 100%. That's why my rig is a 17 F250 fx4. Dana 60, locker ready front axle.

But I'm betting that the Bronco IFS is better than the Taco's, ZR2's, Frontier's............ That's enough for most overlanders.

Jeep should consider a Dana 60 front and rear option, with lockers, available on every trim package of the Gladiator. Along with 35's and the V8.

60s on the Gladiator? I didn’t know that. About time, whined the former owner of a Dana 44 up front that was outfitted with 35 ujoints. As with my old rubicon I’d have to get rid of all the marketing badges and labels. Ahh, on second thought, F-350 when I get too old to set up camp.

 

[SquishBang]

They haven't built enough of them to get them on the road long enough to see whether or not the roof is going to leak.

I have a big issue with a certain aspect of the Bronco design. It uses frameless door windows, like older Subarus, Camaros, and my Q60. I have always had issues with these cars and wind noise or water leaks. I have had to replace parts of the window weather stripping on my Q60 once already. And getting the window adjusted just right to get the correct seal is a PITA.
To make all of this worse, the Bronco has removable doors and top. Gives me window-adjusting anxiety even thinking about it.
Wonder if Ford came up with some miracle engineering solution?

 

[SquishBang]

The upcoming Hemi Gladiator could be really tough. If the hemi has been fixed, and no longer lunches on cam shafts like a lionfish in a goldfish tank. There's no excuse for unreliability in a 1960's engine design.

That's a big negative Eguardo. The FCA V8s still use MDS. Only the Challenger (maybe Charger also) 6MT comes without MDS, which might be the only reliable version of their V8.

 

[LostWoods]

I rolled up a lot of miles in a 69, V8 4 speed Bronco, I was excited to see the new version but now I think I'll wait a year before thinking about getting one. I kinda like the Gladiator, now I see the used market is flooded with low milage year old Gladiators, must be a reason.

Yeah, people think they're buying a Jeep that does truck things but in reality, they're getting a small truck that does Jeep things. It's not a go-everywhere off-roader but if you like a truck, the SFA setup means you can get a lot more out of it and be far more capable than a Tacoma with minimal work. The problem is that it has all the downsides... namely smaller than a full-size in cargo and people space, worse steering than a Tacoma or otherwise, and it's still a much longer wheelbase than the usual Jeep.

Plus, you have a lot of early buyers who leased the new thing and are now getting out of those short leases or people who bought before COVID and now can't afford a $700+ a month car note.